User Panel
Posted: 1/7/2013 9:06:52 PM EDT
This is from an email which is making the rounds to people on my gun club's email list, and I've seen it in a few other places. Take it with a grain of salt, but let's discuss the implications of it as if it were real:
Sources in DC have told the NRA-ILA that, without the former's guidance, a close group of House Republicans are drafting a response to Dianne Feinstein's strengthened AWB. The bill, dubbed FOREA (pronounced "foray"), or the Firearms Owners Rights Extension Act of 2013 is designed to redirect and calm the debate on gun control in the United States following the Sandy Hook shooting which claimed 27 lives. A Texas legislator stated that proponents of gun ownership should be prepared to swallow "short term inconveniences to get long term gains" - to that end FOREA restricts the currently unregulated private sale of firearms, while heavily modifying the NFA of 1934 and the Hughes Amendment to address "odd or outmoded superficial technicalities" and as a Kentucky representative put it "bad, onerous law." Finally, FOREA modifies the Gun Free Schools act to promote increased security.
FOREA's main pillars are: -Create a BATFE form for the reporting of all private transfers of firearms, to be made available online or at Federal Government offices upon request. The new form, which requires the transfer recipient to write their name in ink and sign a statement acknowledging they can legally possess and purchase firearms, also requires that the make, model, and serial number be listed. As a Federal Government form and legally binding document, lying on the proposed form would be a Federal crime carrying a substantial (TBD) sentence. The form need not be handed on to the government in any way but must kept at the seller's place of residence or in another easily accessible location for a minimum of one year, after which point it may be destroyed. Within the year that the form must be kept FOREA requires sellers to produce the form for law enforcement on request and gives them 48 hours to do so. The loss or accidental destruction of the form carries no penalty if it is reported to the BATFE promptly, however, if a seller reports more than three forms in a year, they may be subject to investigation. The entire "temporary bound book" process may be bypassed if the seller runs the name of the recipient through the NICS, which will be made available to all citizens free of charge over the web and by automated phone. If the NICS check is clean the form may be immediately discarded. The NICS for all system (rebranded Safe Seller's GunChek under FOREA) requires only the recipient's name and state. If the check returns a negative result (buyer is a prohibited person) then the seller is directed to web form or voice questionnaire which then, and only then, requests the make, model and serial number of the firearm. Completing the GunChek process absolves the seller of all liability for unknowingly selling to a prohibited person. -Modify existing gun laws to expand firearms freedom in the United States. FOREA modifies the NFA of 1934 by reclassifying suppressors, smoothbore pistols, short barreled rifles and shotguns, as Title "1 - Special" items - legal for over the counter sale without an enhanced background check or waiting period (by any FFL which is authorized to sell new production firearms) but still requiring the payment of a $200 tax stamp if bought from an FFL (private to private transfers require recording as outline above, but are free). FOREA alters the controversial Hughes Amendment to the Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986 by allowing the BATFE to grant any private citizen submitting a Form 1 the privilege to manufacture a new machine gun or convert an existing firearm to full auto, while still banning the commercial manufacture of such weapons for civilian use. -Modify the Gun Free Schools Act to permit duly authorized persons to bear arms in defense of students and faculty. FOREA allows any person that has both a concealed carry permit or the equivalent (to include no permit of any kind in states the do not require one for CCW) and written permission from the principal of the school to carry a firearm, provided it remains concealed except in emergencies, anywhere on school grounds. So is it time to rejoice or begin burying my stockpile? I actually like the law, the first provision is easily evaded and not too onerous while allowing antis to say they "closed the gun show loophole" and it grants us a lot of other things which we had previously been denied. |
|
That sounds like a win to me. How many of us keep equivalent or even better records than what would be required?
|
|
Quoted:
Yeah, I don't know. Ditto. It will get amended to hurt us like FOPA '86 did... Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
Fuck yeah! I don't see a lot moderate dems opposing this, since it gets rid of the "loophole" in theory. And, if someone wants a machine gun bad enough, they're not gonna dick around with a Form 1 even if it is easier once the law passes.
|
|
allowing the BATFE to grant any private citizen submitting a Form 1 the privilege to manufacture a new machine gun or convert an existing firearm to full auto
It might pass without that, the libs are afraid of machine guns the most it seems. |
|
Quoted:
That sounds like a win to me. How many of us keep equivalent or even better records than what would be required? It's win , I'll take it . Keeping a receipt for a year ain't bad, I already sign the 4473 so signing a paper that I keep is acceptable |
|
Quoted:
Paperwork for FTF? No Fucking Way
No Compromises! The thing that scares me is the last time the country was so unable to compromise on an issue this big we no-compromised ourselves into a Civil War. We had compromised on slavery and states' rights before and then both sides decided to stop compromising, and boom! |
|
Quoted:
This is from an email which is making the rounds to people on my gun club's email list, and I've seen it in a few other places. Take it with a grain of salt, but let's discuss the implications of it as if it were real: Sources in DC have told the NRA-ILA that, without the former's guidance, a close group of House Republicans are drafting a response to Dianne Feinstein's strengthened AWB. The bill, dubbed FOREA (pronounced "foray"), or the Firearms Owners Rights Extension Act of 2013 is designed to redirect and calm the debate on gun control in the United States following the Sandy Hook shooting which claimed 27 lives. A Texas legislator stated that proponents of gun ownership should be prepared to swallow "short term inconveniences to get long term gains" - to that end FOREA restricts the currently unregulated private sale of firearms, while heavily modifying the NFA of 1934 and the Hughes Amendment to address "odd or outmoded superficial technicalities" and as a Kentucky representative put it "bad, onerous law." Finally, FOREA modifies the Gun Free Schools act to promote increased security.
FOREA's main pillars are: -Create a BATFE form for the reporting of all private transfers of firearms, to be made available online or at Federal Government offices upon request. The new form, which requires the transfer recipient to write their name in ink and sign a statement acknowledging they can legally possess and purchase firearms, also requires that the make, model, and serial number be listed. As a Federal Government form and legally binding document, lying on the proposed form would be a Federal crime carrying a substantial (TBD) sentence. The form need not be handed on to the government in any way but must kept at the seller's place of residence or in another easily accessible location for a minimum of one year, after which point it may be destroyed. Within the year that the form must be kept FOREA requires sellers to produce the form for law enforcement on request and gives them 48 hours to do so. The loss or accidental destruction of the form carries no penalty if it is reported to the BATFE promptly, however, if a seller reports more than three forms in a year, they may be subject to investigation. The entire "temporary bound book" process may be bypassed if the seller runs the name of the recipient through the NICS, which will be made available to all citizens free of charge over the web and by automated phone. If the NICS check is clean the form may be immediately discarded. The NICS for all system (rebranded Safe Seller's GunChek under FOREA) requires only the recipient's name and state. If the check returns a negative result (buyer is a prohibited person) then the seller is directed to web form or voice questionnaire which then, and only then, requests the make, model and serial number of the firearm. Completing the GunChek process absolves the seller of all liability for unknowingly selling to a prohibited person. -Modify existing gun laws to expand firearms freedom in the United States. FOREA modifies the NFA of 1934 by reclassifying suppressors, smoothbore pistols, short barreled rifles and shotguns, as Title "1 - Special" items - legal for over the counter sale without an enhanced background check or waiting period (by any FFL which is authorized to sell new production firearms) but still requiring the payment of a $200 tax stamp if bought from an FFL (private to private transfers require recorded as outline above, but are free). FOREA alters the controversial Hughes Amendment to the Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986 by allowing the BATFE to grant any private citizen submitting a Form 1 the privilege to manufacture a new machine gun or convert an existing firearm to full auto, while still banning the commercial manufacture of such weapons for civilian use. -Modify the Gun Free Schools Act to permit duly authorized persons to bear arms in defense of students and faculty. FOREA allows any person that has both a concealed carry permit or the equivalent (to include no permit of any kind in states the do not require one for CCW) and written permission from the principal of the school to carry a firearm, provided it remains concealed except in emergencies, anywhere on school grounds. So is it time to rejoice of begin burying my stockpile? I actually like the law, the first provision is easily evaded and not too onerous while allowing antis to say they "closed the gun show loophole" and it grants us a lot of other things which we had previously been denied. So, background checks OR temp bound book for private sales.... with NICS being available to the public, and overriding the temp bound book... I might could live with that, for cash-and-carry NFA and Form 1 MGs. |
|
My inner Libertarian is screaming NO COMPROMISE.
But, realistically, in the political climate we're in, I think its a win. Pluuuuusssssss MACHINE GUNS! SWEET JESUS! I'd sign a paper for a private sale, just to make a liberal have a stroke with happy switches legal! |
|
Quoted:
allowing the BATFE to grant any private citizen submitting a Form 1 the privilege to manufacture a new machine gun or convert an existing firearm to full auto
It might pass without that, the libs are afraid of machine guns the most it seems. Its a sacrificial lamb most likely, it allows libs to say: We took machine guns off the streets! Hooray! |
|
I would be fine with it, but the whole NFA change stuff would get torn apart. Honestly this would be modified and amended so much it wouldn't look the same in the end. By the time it got through the process it would probably screw us too.
|
|
Quoted:
Paperwork for FTF? No Fucking Way
No Compromises! It's a joke of a compromise. A piece of paper that lasts a year and the feds never ask for unless the gun (I'm guessing here) turns up at a crime scene? I'm fine with it if it means I can turn my G17 into an 18, etc etc. Not to mention cash and carry for a suppressor? Come on. DC is all about compromise. For once, we are on the winning side of one if this passes. |
|
Quoted:
I would be fine with it, but the whole NFA change stuff would get torn apart. Honestly this would be modified and amended so much it wouldn't look the same in the end. By the time it got through the process it would probably screw us too. I think we could get suppressors and SBRs, they would go after the MGs and the "Sawed off shotguns" and we could sneak the other stuff by. |
|
Quoted:
I would be fine with it, but the whole NFA change stuff would get torn apart. Honestly this would be modified and amended so much it wouldn't look the same in the end. By the time it got through the process it would probably screw us too. FOPA comes to mind... |
|
I would give up FTF and shit, even magazine restrictions, to get the NFA registry reopened, cash and carry suppressors.
Fuck, I would register my AR if it meant the registry got opened up. |
|
Quoted: ... How many of us keep equivalent or even better records than what would be required? Quoted: Ditto. It will get amended to hurt us like FOPA '86 did... Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile My concern as well. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would be fine with it, but the whole NFA change stuff would get torn apart. Honestly this would be modified and amended so much it wouldn't look the same in the end. By the time it got through the process it would probably screw us too. FOPA comes to mind... The Hughes Amendment was voted down by a voice vote. Rangle, the fucking <CoC Violation> decides to ignore this and say "Oh, it passed." It was meant to kill the bill, but it undid so much of the draconian GCA that it was worth losing MGs for. Kind of. Maybe. |
|
Quoted:
I would give up FTF and shit, even magazine restrictions, to get the NFA registry reopened, cash and carry suppressors. Fuck, I would register my AR if it meant the registry got opened up. Hold on there, there is a difference between an easily evaded piece of paper for FTF and registering your Title 1 guns or losing high cap mags... we would never get those back. |
|
We could probably get some really good shit in exchange for mandating background checks for private sales & letting the dems crow about closing the "gun show loophole".
Free and universally accessible NICS? Provided 4473's are still mandated to be destroyed after 90 days or whatever I wouldn't cry to hard over it. Remember a good compromise leaves everybody mad |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Paperwork for FTF? No Fucking Way
No Compromises! The thing that scares me is the last time the country was so unable to compromise on an issue this big we no-compromised ourselves into a Civil War. We had compromised on slavery and states' rights before and then both sides decided to stop compromising, and boom! So all that has to happen is that the gun banners need to stop. Problem solved. Oh, that's not what you meant? We need to give up something? GTFO |
|
Written permission for gun-free? Umm, no. Majority of principals will be libtards, as well teachers. Instead, create an "air marshall" sort of course for teachers. Those who past muster are then permitted to carry, hassle-free with safety in place. Safety example? Gun must be on person at all times.
|
|
Quoted: I would give up FTF and shit, even magazine restrictions, to get the NFA registry reopened, cash and carry suppressors. Fuck, I would register my AR if it meant the registry got opened up. You wanna burn through your 10 round mag real fast huh? |
|
Quoted:
I would give up FTF and shit, even magazine restrictions, to get the NFA registry reopened, cash and carry suppressors. Fuck, I would register my AR if it meant the registry got opened up. Read what you just said. Seriously, read it. And then come back and realize how it sounds. So if we could have cash and carry suppressors/SBRs, and new MGs, you would register your Title 1 shit, and use only 10 round mags/belts/feeding devices? Have you ever fired a MG with a 10 round mag? It fucking sucks. "BR-Click." "Well that was... fun." |
|
Quoted:
I would support that You shouldn't. The ability to get neat toys should not precede the more important battle of preventing further infringement. |
|
I've never bought a gun FTF. Everything I own that is currently shootable is on a 4473. The law as described would not do anything to restrict me or the way I have been collecting firearms. It would open a lot of avenues that are currently an annoyance or inconvenience to pursue.
But in the balance, I'm not sure it is worth the fight to keep out surprise poison pills. It's a tough one. I'd rather just not have any new firearms legislation at all. |
|
I'd take that in a heart beat. I would be poor, after the happy switch, and over the counter cans.
|
|
Hold the phone. So the tax stamp would only be required if the item was purchased from an FFL. What about if someone makes a suppressor or a sbr or sbs or sbp or goes with the form 1 and some Sten mk2 blueprints? Loophole, thy name is free?
|
|
Quoted:
Never happen This And to the guy said magazine restrictions FUCK NO! |
|
They all think we have "accurately spraying bullet hoses" now. You think they will really let us reopen the registry? I do like it though. Fuck it, they are swinging for the fences, why not us? Just shitcan that part about the FTF background checks and make the title "Brady school safety act".
|
|
Would support. Closes the "gun show loophole" and has a lot of big wins for lawful firearms owners.
|
|
This thread is a perfect example of why we will lose the fight to protect the RKBA.
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would support that You shouldn't. The ability to get neat toys should not precede the more important battle of preventing further infringement. Except, if the military gets the neat toys then it is well within the spirit of the 2A for us to have them. Yah the FTF form is a bitch, but really, don't we all do FTFs with some sort of receipt anyway? Also, in the age of smarthphones, with NICS online I imagine most FTFs would go like this: Seller: Here's the gun. What is your name? Buyer: Bob Johnson Seller: *whips out smartphone, goes to NICS, puts in Bob Johnson, and the state they are both in. NICS Check: Bob Johnson of Ohio is not a prohibited person. Seller: Here ya go. Buyer: *hands over money, takes gun* thanks! Since you performed the Check on site I doubt the form would be required, as the NICS check negates the form the second the check is completed. |
|
What the fuck good is a machine gun if you have a fucking 10 round mag, rest is fine. They want to fuck our bill well fuck yours to cunt and both go home
|
|
I doubt that is real. If it were, I would trade the "gun show loophole" for cheap and easy SBR and suppressors, and F1 machine guns. Still don't think its real. |
|
Hmmmm...Much as part of me wants to scream "NO FUCKING FACE TO FACE LIMITATIONS!", I find myself looking at this, in balance, as a huge win for us if it were to go through in the proposed form we're presented with right now.
We'd gain an awful lot from this. It's one step in the wrong direction, but several leaps in the right one. |
|
Quoted:
Hold the phone. So the tax stamp would only be required if the item was purchased from an FFL. What about if someone makes a suppressor or a sbr or sbs or sbp or goes with the form 1 and some Sten mk2 blueprints? Loophole, thy name is free? Yes, you could buy any NFA weapon sans tax stamp and background check if you go FTF, excluding destructive devices such as grenades and launchers. That is how I understand it. EDIT: You can make an MG but it is not reclassified like SBS's and suppressors, so no, you will need the tax stamp and check, but hey... modern, transferable MGs on the cheap! |
|
Quoted:
Hmmmm...Much as part of me wants to scream "NO FUCKING FACE TO FACE LIMITATIONS!", I find myself looking at this, in balance, as a huge win for us if it were to go through in the proposed form we're presented with right now. We'd gain an awful lot from this. It's one step in the wrong direction, but several leaps in the right one. I would totally be okay with it. It's a win. I would be happy if NICS was open to the public. I don't want to accidentally sell a gun to a felon. |
|
It had nothing to do with me, but I have been telling them all that suppressors would save many folks hearing.
|
|
That would never pass the senate.
It would get changed to where we keep the paperwork for FTF transactions and get nothing of the good. |
|
Also, I'd like to see some discussion on this from the wider media. Seems like a pipe-dream that might just be some local gunclub fantasy at this point. Any links to an original source or legislator talking about it?
|
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.