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Posted: 1/4/2013 6:10:01 AM EDT
I'm very familiar with the AR15 platform.

My experience with Bullpups is fairly limited.

But with all the good reviews I've heard about
bullpups, such as the Steyr AUG,
I don't get why the U.S. military doesn't
switch to a bullpup design.

Shorter overall length while maintaining
barrel length and accuracy with
much better handling due to smaller
size.
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:11:25 AM EDT
[#1]
IMHO a lot of decisions have to do with logistics more that anything.
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:11:27 AM EDT
[#2]
It sucks.
 
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:11:41 AM EDT
[#3]
I would imagine because they are clumsy and difficult to reload quickly with gear on.
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:12:03 AM EDT
[#4]
anyone know if bullpups are being targeted by the new ban proposal?
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:13:20 AM EDT
[#5]
Awkward mag changes

Complex fire control system leading to a generally shitty trigger

Parts must be swapped for left-handed shooting and ambidexterous use is impossible (except for the FN F2000)
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:13:30 AM EDT
[#6]
Ergonomics mostly.  Employing a bayonet from a bullpup isn't ideal either.

Yea, yea, yea-I know.  The Brits did it in Iraq, but the L85A2  isn't the ideal bayonet platform.
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:15:29 AM EDT
[#7]



Quoted:


Ergonomics mostly.  Employing a bayonet from a bullpup isn't ideal either.



Yea, yea, yea-I know.  The Brits did it in Iraq, but the L85A2  isn't the ideal bayonet platform.


All the Brit's I've talked to say there's no reason to even pretend it can be operated left handed.



 
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:17:03 AM EDT
[#8]
Look at how many here favor a very short stock - often not extending the M4 stock out much beyond collapsed.

Imagine that not being an option, and having a rifle with an M16A2 length stock or longer, complete with a magazine jutting out of it.

I like the AUG.  I fired a few Aussie ones for fun in Iraq.  It's a fun rifle to shoot, especially in happy mode (just pull the trigger harder).

I'll take an AR design any day for actual carry and regular use.
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:17:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Tagged to see if someone steps to Jungle.
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:20:44 AM EDT
[#10]
You cant see the magwell from a firing position.
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:22:32 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
I'm very familiar with the AR15 platform.

My experience with Bullpups is fairly limited.

But with all the good reviews I've heard about
bullpups, such as the Steyr AUG,
I don't get why the U.S. military doesn't
switch to a bullpup design.

Shorter overall length while maintaining
barrel length and accuracy with
much better handling due to smaller
size.


Let me guess, you are RIGHT-HANDED ?
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:22:36 AM EDT
[#12]
Reloading a bullpup sucks.  The trigger sucks.  The only thing it has going for it is its shortened length, and that is not enough to justify it.
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:25:46 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:


Complex fire control system leading to a generally shitty trigger



This would probably be one of the top reasons.  The current system has many fewer parts and does not need to extend the trigger function over several inches to the rear.  I assume there's a reliability issue doing this.
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:26:12 AM EDT
[#14]
The FN P90 is an amazing firearm.

I have shot them at the range and the thumb grip feels like it was made for a human.

The rifle shoulders up nicely and it's a blast to shoot.

I can reload a P90 magazine in a few seconds. And since it's ambidextrous through the whole system. Anyone can use it.

It has a brass bag thats detachable under the butt of the gun. and that really makes it nice when you're at the range.

You wont get hot brass down your neck. EVEN WITHOUT A BAG.

The P90 design is vastly superior to the AR15 in terms of ambidextrous use. Haters gonna hate......
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:27:18 AM EDT
[#15]
Another vote for the suck.
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:27:25 AM EDT
[#16]
do you want a kaboom that close to your eye and face?
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:29:46 AM EDT
[#17]
I can tell you the reason I sold 4 pre-import-ban AUGs...





I just like the AR platforms reload cycle and trigger a lot better.

 
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:30:07 AM EDT
[#18]
I never liked the fact that the actual chamber is right below your cheek/face.

I assume they are more noisy to the shooter because of this? (Kinda like how you can really hear the spring noise in an AR).
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:30:37 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
The FN P90 is an amazing firearm.

I have shot them at the range and the thumb grip feels like it was made for a human.

The rifle shoulders up nicely and it's a blast to shoot.

I can reload a P90 magazine in a few seconds. And since it's ambidextrous through the whole system. Anyone can use it.

It has a brass bag thats detachable under the butt of the gun. and that really makes it nice when you're at the range.

You wont get hot brass down your neck. EVEN WITHOUT A BAG.

The P90 design is vastly superior to the AR15 in terms of ambidextrous use. Haters gonna hate......


Good thing all combat takes place at close range.

My ambi AR with a forward charging handle. I'm left handed FYI.

Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:30:51 AM EDT
[#20]
Bum Fucking Gay.

ETA: Both the name and the appearance.  I want evil black guns!!!
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:32:43 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
The FN P90 is an amazing firearm.

I have shot them at the range and the thumb grip feels like it was made for a human.

The rifle shoulders up nicely and it's a blast to shoot.

I can reload a P90 magazine in a few seconds. And since it's ambidextrous through the whole system. Anyone can use it.It has a brass bag thats detachable under the butt of the gun. and that really makes it nice when you're at the range.

You wont get hot brass down your neck. EVEN WITHOUT A BAG.

The P90 design is vastly superior to the AR15 in terms of ambidextrous use. Haters gonna hate......


Who are these people who can't use regular weapons? Do they not have hands or something?
How many seconds does it take to reload an AR15/M16?

I lol'd.5.7 vs 5.56? Please.
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:32:44 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
The FN P90 is an amazing firearm.

I have shot them at the range and the thumb grip feels like it was made for a human.

The rifle shoulders up nicely and it's a blast to shoot.

I can reload a P90 magazine in a few seconds. And since it's ambidextrous through the whole system. Anyone can use it.

It has a brass bag thats detachable under the butt of the gun. and that really makes it nice when you're at the range.

You wont get hot brass down your neck. EVEN WITHOUT A BAG.

The P90 design is vastly superior to the AR15 in terms of ambidextrous use. Haters gonna hate......


Funny post considering your user name.
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:35:05 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
The FN P90 is an amazing firearm.

I have shot them at the range and the thumb grip feels like it was made for a human.

The rifle shoulders up nicely and it's a blast to shoot.

I can reload a P90 magazine in a few seconds. And since it's ambidextrous through the whole system. Anyone can use it.

It has a brass bag thats detachable under the butt of the gun. and that really makes it nice when you're at the range.

You wont get hot brass down your neck. EVEN WITHOUT A BAG.

The P90 design is vastly superior to the AR15 in terms of ambidextrous use. Haters gonna hate......


Too bad it fires such a shitty cartridge.
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:36:10 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The FN P90 is an amazing firearm.

I have shot them at the range and the thumb grip feels like it was made for a human.

The rifle shoulders up nicely and it's a blast to shoot.

I can reload a P90 magazine in a few seconds. And since it's ambidextrous through the whole system. Anyone can use it.

It has a brass bag thats detachable under the butt of the gun. and that really makes it nice when you're at the range.

You wont get hot brass down your neck. EVEN WITHOUT A BAG.

The P90 design is vastly superior to the AR15 in terms of ambidextrous use. Haters gonna hate......


Too bad it fires such a shitty cartridge.


No way. It is far superior.
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:37:58 AM EDT
[#25]
I like bullpups myself, own a Bushmaster M17 and a Aug clone, but the British SAS who get to chose their own weapons prefer the M-4 over their own bullpup.

The bullpup is good for certain situations, easier to get in and out of vehicles. I know the Secret Service carries a bullpup at times. In their case, they like a rifle that is easy to hide, and aren't expecting to have to reload. If the Secret Service has to do a combat reload, you figure, the whole country is fu******.

Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:38:55 AM EDT
[#26]



Quoted:


The FN P90 is an amazing firearm.



I have shot them at the range and the thumb grip feels like it was made for a human.



The rifle shoulders up nicely and it's a blast to shoot.



I can reload a P90 magazine in a few seconds. And since it's ambidextrous through the whole system. Anyone can use it.



It has a brass bag thats detachable under the butt of the gun. and that really makes it nice when you're at the range.



You wont get hot brass down your neck. EVEN WITHOUT A BAG.



The P90 design is vastly superior to the AR15 in terms of ambidextrous use. Haters gonna hate......

A few seconds?  When I practiced a lot I could reload an M-16 in close to one.  Reloads on the P-90 are glacially slow.



Also, I don't know about military P-90, but the PS-90's at the range I worked at, and many customers PS-90's malfunctioned quite often.  Very finicky guns.
 
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:38:57 AM EDT
[#27]
Barrel length has no effect on potential  accuracy of a gun, it will effect velocity which in turn effects wind drift and drop over distance



awkward to shoot prone, or in odd positions, as well as mag changes in prone or odd positions



the nature of the design tends to have crappy triggers



most are not ambidextrous



you put your face right next to the spot with the highest pressure, if you have a kaboom far more dangerous to the shooter





The disadvantages outweigh the advantages  




Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:41:34 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The FN P90 is an amazing firearm.

I have shot them at the range and the thumb grip feels like it was made for a human.

The rifle shoulders up nicely and it's a blast to shoot.

I can reload a P90 magazine in a few seconds. And since it's ambidextrous through the whole system. Anyone can use it.

It has a brass bag thats detachable under the butt of the gun. and that really makes it nice when you're at the range.

You wont get hot brass down your neck. EVEN WITHOUT A BAG.

The P90 design is vastly superior to the AR15 in terms of ambidextrous use. Haters gonna hate......


Too bad it fires such a shitty cartridge.


No way. It is far superior.


Caliber aside, the P90 is a cool design, and one of the more interesting guns to come out in a long time.

I'm glad that some companies are investing in things like that.  Its going to be boring if the pinnacle of gun manufacturing is endless versions of the SCAR/416/ACR
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:44:04 AM EDT
[#29]
Limited market. Most would end up sbr's.
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:46:07 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The FN P90 is an amazing firearm.

I have shot them at the range and the thumb grip feels like it was made for a human.

The rifle shoulders up nicely and it's a blast to shoot.

I can reload a P90 magazine in a few seconds. And since it's ambidextrous through the whole system. Anyone can use it.

It has a brass bag thats detachable under the butt of the gun. and that really makes it nice when you're at the range.

You wont get hot brass down your neck. EVEN WITHOUT A BAG.

The P90 design is vastly superior to the AR15 in terms of ambidextrous use. Haters gonna hate......


Too bad it fires such a shitty cartridge.


No way. It is far superior.


Caliber aside, the P90 is a cool design, and one of the more interesting guns to come out in a long time.

I'm glad that some companies are investing in things like that.  Its going to be boring if the pinnacle of gun manufacturing is endless versions of the SCAR/416/ACR


I guess if we were having a fashion show and our guns were accessories to our outfits I totally agree with you.

Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:46:59 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The FN P90 is an amazing firearm.

I have shot them at the range and the thumb grip feels like it was made for a human.

The rifle shoulders up nicely and it's a blast to shoot.

I can reload a P90 magazine in a few seconds. And since it's ambidextrous through the whole system. Anyone can use it.

It has a brass bag thats detachable under the butt of the gun. and that really makes it nice when you're at the range.

You wont get hot brass down your neck. EVEN WITHOUT A BAG.

The P90 design is vastly superior to the AR15 in terms of ambidextrous use. Haters gonna hate......


Too bad it fires such a shitty cartridge.


No way. It is far superior.


Caliber aside, the P90 is a cool design, and one of the more interesting guns to come out in a long time.

I'm glad that some companies are investing in things like that.  Its going to be boring if the pinnacle of gun manufacturing is endless versions of the SCAR/416/ACR


I agree that it's a neat weapon, but being a 'cool design' is irrelevant, especially when the cartridge is basiclaly a .22magnum.
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:48:05 AM EDT
[#32]





Quoted:





Quoted:




Quoted:




Quoted:




Quoted:


The FN P90 is an amazing firearm.





I have shot them at the range and the thumb grip feels like it was made for a human.





The rifle shoulders up nicely and it's a blast to shoot.





I can reload a P90 magazine in a few seconds. And since it's ambidextrous through the whole system. Anyone can use it.





It has a brass bag thats detachable under the butt of the gun. and that really makes it nice when you're at the range.





You wont get hot brass down your neck. EVEN WITHOUT A BAG.





The P90 design is vastly superior to the AR15 in terms of ambidextrous use. Haters gonna hate......








Too bad it fires such a shitty cartridge.






No way. It is far superior.






Caliber aside, the P90 is a cool design, and one of the more interesting guns to come out in a long time.





I'm glad that some companies are investing in things like that.  Its going to be boring if the pinnacle of gun manufacturing is endless versions of the SCAR/416/ACR






I agree that it's a neat weapon, but being a 'cool design' is irrelevant when the cartridge is basiclaly a .22magnum.





I'd rather have a PPSH-41 honestly.   I don't even like Russian guns.
 
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:49:51 AM EDT
[#33]
2nd post wins!
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:50:54 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The FN P90 is an amazing firearm.

I have shot them at the range and the thumb grip feels like it was made for a human.

The rifle shoulders up nicely and it's a blast to shoot.

I can reload a P90 magazine in a few seconds. And since it's ambidextrous through the whole system. Anyone can use it.

It has a brass bag thats detachable under the butt of the gun. and that really makes it nice when you're at the range.

You wont get hot brass down your neck. EVEN WITHOUT A BAG.

The P90 design is vastly superior to the AR15 in terms of ambidextrous use. Haters gonna hate......


Too bad it fires such a shitty cartridge.


No way. It is far superior.


Caliber aside, the P90 is a cool design, and one of the more interesting guns to come out in a long time.

I'm glad that some companies are investing in things like that.  Its going to be boring if the pinnacle of gun manufacturing is endless versions of the SCAR/416/ACR


I agree that it's a neat weapon, but being a 'cool design' is irrelevant when the cartridge is basiclaly a .22magnum.

I'd rather have a PPSH-41 honestly.   I don't even like Russian guns.

 



I'm just going to agree with you so I can avoid a facefull of your dongtastic fury.
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:52:35 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:


Caliber aside, the P90 is a cool design, and one of the more interesting guns to come out in a long time.

I'm glad that some companies are investing in things like that.  Its going to be boring if the pinnacle of gun manufacturing is endless versions of the SCAR/416/ACR


I guess if we were having a fashion show and our guns were accessories to our outfits I totally agree with you.



Agree with me about what?  That a longer barrel in a shorter OAL is a good thing?  

Well, agree to disagree I suppose.
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:53:19 AM EDT
[#36]



Quoted:



Quoted:




Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

The FN P90 is an amazing firearm.



I have shot them at the range and the thumb grip feels like it was made for a human.



The rifle shoulders up nicely and it's a blast to shoot.



I can reload a P90 magazine in a few seconds. And since it's ambidextrous through the whole system. Anyone can use it.



It has a brass bag thats detachable under the butt of the gun. and that really makes it nice when you're at the range.



You wont get hot brass down your neck. EVEN WITHOUT A BAG.



The P90 design is vastly superior to the AR15 in terms of ambidextrous use. Haters gonna hate......





Too bad it fires such a shitty cartridge.




No way. It is far superior.




Caliber aside, the P90 is a cool design, and one of the more interesting guns to come out in a long time.



I'm glad that some companies are investing in things like that.  Its going to be boring if the pinnacle of gun manufacturing is endless versions of the SCAR/416/ACR




I agree that it's a neat weapon, but being a 'cool design' is irrelevant when the cartridge is basiclaly a .22magnum.



I'd rather have a PPSH-41 honestly.   I don't even like Russian guns.



 






I'm just going to agree with you so I can avoid a facefull of your dongtastic fury.

No!  Take it!   Quack like a duck!





 
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:54:25 AM EDT
[#37]



Quoted:


The FN P90 is an amazing firearm.



I have shot them at the range and the thumb grip feels like it was made for a human.



The rifle shoulders up nicely and it's a blast to shoot.



I can reload a P90 magazine in a few seconds. And since it's ambidextrous through the whole system. Anyone can use it.



It has a brass bag thats detachable under the butt of the gun. and that really makes it nice when you're at the range.



You wont get hot brass down your neck. EVEN WITHOUT A BAG.



The P90 design is vastly superior to the AR15 in terms of ambidextrous use. Haters gonna hate......







what's your previous screen name?



 
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:54:39 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
It sucks.  


end of bore is closer to center of shooters mass = easier to maneuver and much more stable  "Standing"  or "Kneeling" shooting platform...

Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:54:39 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:


Caliber aside, the P90 is a cool design, and one of the more interesting guns to come out in a long time.

I'm glad that some companies are investing in things like that.  Its going to be boring if the pinnacle of gun manufacturing is endless versions of the SCAR/416/ACR


I guess if we were having a fashion show and our guns were accessories to our outfits I totally agree with you.



Agree with me about what?  That a longer barrel in a shorter OAL is a good thing?  

Well, agree to disagree I suppose.


You said " Its going to be boring if the pinnacle of gun manufacturing is endless versions of the SCAR/416/ACR".
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:55:13 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Ergonomics mostly.  Employing a bayonet from a bullpup isn't ideal either.

Yea, yea, yea-I know.  The Brits did it in Iraq, but the L85A2  isn't the ideal bayonet platform.


neither is an m16 or m4
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:55:23 AM EDT
[#41]
Lots of goofy answers.  The truth is probably that the people who have the power to make the decision on what type of rifle our troops use have no interest in fielding a bullpup.

From a practical standpoint, the biggest drawback is the non-adjustable LOP, which is the same problem fixed stocked M16s had.

The lack of ambidexterous operation on most bullpups is not a real concern since there are designs out there that eliminate this problem, and these designs would probably win out in suitability testing trials if the military ever decides that they want to switch over to bullpups.
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:56:27 AM EDT
[#42]
ergos arent great

shooting with weak hand ...have to cant the rifle

I'll stick with the AR/M4
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:57:48 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
It sucks.  


Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:57:53 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:


Caliber aside, the P90 is a cool design, and one of the more interesting guns to come out in a long time.

I'm glad that some companies are investing in things like that.  Its going to be boring if the pinnacle of gun manufacturing is endless versions of the SCAR/416/ACR


I guess if we were having a fashion show and our guns were accessories to our outfits I totally agree with you.



Agree with me about what?  That a longer barrel in a shorter OAL is a good thing?  

Well, agree to disagree I suppose.


You said " Its going to be boring if the pinnacle of gun manufacturing is endless versions of the SCAR/416/ACR".


Ah.  And somehow you associated statement that with a desire for better aesthetics.
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:57:59 AM EDT
[#45]
reloads are slower...but if you are reloading from cover it is not that big of a deal...

for vehicle crews a bullpup would be great..but for logistical reasons the military likes to keep weapons in inventory to a minimum..
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:58:26 AM EDT
[#46]



Quoted:



Quoted:

Ergonomics mostly.  Employing a bayonet from a bullpup isn't ideal either.



Yea, yea, yea-I know.  The Brits did it in Iraq, but the L85A2  isn't the ideal bayonet platform.




neither is an m16 or m4


The few times we fixed bayonets on patrol they seemed to work fine, never really got after people hard though.





Then again, bayonets are more about intimidation than real use...



 
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:59:20 AM EDT
[#47]
I like the idea but bullpups feel really awkward to me, particularly with respect to mag changes. Also I have yet to see a bullpup with a trigger that didnt totally suck.  I really wanted to buy that AUG, but the trigger was a major bummer.
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 6:59:55 AM EDT
[#48]
they suck  .
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 7:03:11 AM EDT
[#49]





Quoted:



reloads are slower...but if you are reloading from cover it is not that big of a deal...





for vehicle crews a bullpup would be great..but for logistical reasons the military likes to keep weapons in inventory to a minimum..



With the large amount of MOUT fighting we've been doing the last 12 years, reloading from cover while ideal, is not a guarantee.  Having a standard layout rifle, and fast reloads is a great benefit.   Especially if shit goes high and right and you're caught dry in a room.





 
Link Posted: 1/4/2013 7:05:13 AM EDT
[#50]
Bullpup rifles are misunderstood.
You get a 17-20 inch barrel in a SBR sized package. Maximum ballistics in minimum size.
How many guys here have a 14.5 with a pinned FH but want something shorter?
The AUG is as short as a pinned 14.5 with the stock collapsed, and this is with the 20 " barrel.
Mag changes take some practice but are doable.
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