lol.. saying Virginia Tech and Fort Hood have police means about as much as saying Chicago has police.  

Unless the police or armed security are already right there, waiting for the day something happens, they aren't going to prevent anything and by the time they get there it will be too late.

And the whole "military base" thing is retarded.  It isn't Iraq, people aren't just strolling around Fort Hood in full battle rattle with weapons ready to go waiting for shit to go down.

Rebuttal:



http://s7.postimage.org/fnc18qfaz/note_to_the_nra_rebuttal.jpg

As with Air Marshalls and armed pilots; not ever knowing if they are and where the Marshall is; , you need some faculty inside educational facilities armed. Not knowing who and where they are is crucial IMHO. Armed officers or liasion school officers are only one link in the chain. As a LEO myself I had a conversation with my school officer. It's a huge responsibility but having additional equipped and and trained individuals makes for a safer climate and a climate that will be more responsive to some evil bastards actions. Active shooter protocol has changed forever. You run to the shots and engage aggressively, even if that involves shooting in and around innocents. There just is no other way. Having one officer at a large facility is like one patrol car working a large city on New Years eve and trying to stop drunk driving. Anybody that takes on the duties of school security really needs a mindset. You need to be a warrior and if ever faced with an awful situation you would need to respond like a lightning bolt. If I had children in school, a father and or a military veteran and father with children in that school would get my nod if faculty were not up to the task.

People have died in automobile accidents while wearing seatbelts. Is that a reason to not have seatbelts?

Buildings with smoke detectors and fire extinguishers have burned to the ground. Is that a reason to not have smoke detectors or fire extinguishers?

AVERAGE: 23.6 Deaths Per Year From School Shootings DURING Federal Assault Weapon Ban.


AVERAGE: 12.2 Deaths Per Year From School Shootings AFTER Federal Assault Weapon Ban EXPIRED.








1994 to 2004 - Federal Assault Weapon Ban Was Enacted:


1994–1995 (20 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)


1995–1996 (35 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)


1996–1997 (25 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)


1997–1998 (40 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)


1998–1999 (25 Homicides from school shootings in the U.S.)


1999–2000 (25 Homicides from school shootings in the U.S.)


2000–2001 (19 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)


2001–2002 (4 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)


2002–2003 (14 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)


2003–2004 (29 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)


TOTAL: 236 Deaths resulting from school shootings in US DURING the Federal Assault Weapon Ban.





AFTER Federal Assault Weapon Ban Expired In 2004:


2005–2006 (5 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)


2006–2007 (38 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)


2007–2008 (3 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)


2008–2009 (10 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)


2009–2010 (5 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
 

For Hood, having DOD police and MPs on base is not the same as having a dedicated security officer at a school or some armed staff with CCWs in the school.   If the principal and vice at Snady Hook were armed I don't think we would have a massacre to talk about.

A little google-foo for some Sunday reading.

I "think" this is the report....

If we are talking about the same thing, I believe it was a former police officer, Jeanne Assam who was part of the New Life Church's security detail.

She fired at the attacker and altered his game plan. He went on the defensive. She may have wounded him.

The Deputy at Columbine fired his handgun at a door from 60 yards away.  When asked what he hit, he replied something to the effect that he didn't know but he may have hit someone in the shoulder.  He did not pursue anyone further as he was calling and waiting for backup.   This is a far cry from  carrying inside the building and engaging the threats directly....

2011 and 2012 will bump that number up.

I spoke to a retired superintendent of a school system nearby.  He said he had disarmed 5 students in his school during his career.  None of them were publicised by the media.  I gathered by that response that crime stats do not report the success stories.  Is that true?  Are principals, etc., required to report guns in school ,where the perp (student) is preempted from doing harm ,to the crime statistics bureau?

I think we are getting a lopsided picture again which supports the anti-gunners contentions through biased reporting.

He further stated that during his tenure, there was no problem with police response at his school (a large multi grade system) because just outside the gate to the school there was a Dunkin' Donuts shop that the LEOs frequented.

Hmm, wasn't aware that Columbine had a police officer present at the time of the school shooting there.

Interesting.

Yes, he was at the first press conference that the locals held, and he made statements about what he had done.  Looked pretty shook up.  A few days later, after there had been some noise about possible lawsuits from parents that were upset about how long it took police to enter the building, he was at another press conference and had a fresh haircut and pressed uniform.  He said very little at the later press conference, and his actions were summarized as having been patrolling the campus (outside the building) when the incident started, then called for backup and waited for additional officers.

Funny thing is that gun-grabbers always argued that there would be professionals that could stop the problem. Now that NRA came out with proposal, they are going against what they were spewing(professionals are there to take care of the situation)

Truth is, he was returning from Subway and got called about a woman down.  He was not there when the shooting started.

Saying that there were police on Fort Hood is a little like saying there are police in Carson City.
 

"Basically at least two students and probably more were able to run away while Harris' attention was shifted to the deputy. Just because a school resource officer doesn't shoot and kill the active shooter doesn't mean that their presence there didn't save lives!"

this is why we NEED hi/standard cap mags. suppressing fire, used by those on the defensive, to move away from the threat.

not all rounds fired in anger are "kill" shots.

The anti's will claim that is just spraying bullets, with no concern for how many innocent bystanders are hit.

Better to point out that handgun rounds rarely result in one hit completely incapacitating the target, and the chance that there will be more than one attacker.  You would rather not have to worry about doing a mag change with another attacker coming at you.

Or just point out that their "clip size" limit wouldn't have prevented anything, since the Virginia Tech nut used a bunch of 10 round mags.

I've been to the building at VT where this took place, Norris Hall and walked through the place with a VT officer. The doors are huge solid wood doors. When I was there there were still buckshot holes in the door where they tried to make entry. They found a maintenance door to the side that Cho didn't chain. It still took a few minutes to breach. They made entry and headed to the sound of guns. The officers were outside the room, about to make entry when Cho killed himself. The hallway where this all took place was was no longer in use when I was there and the doors were all deadbolted.

The doors they entered. Big heavy solid wood suckers.