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benchpress
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Posted: 12/18/2012 11:25:43 AM
I've used this point several times recently.

1) How many babies have been murdered by a "doctor"? On the day 20 children were killed by a gun how many hundreds if not thousands were aborted?

2) If we're talking about banning guns to save lives then it's time to ban ALCOHOL.

Please post some short arguments to get the stupid liberals to STFU.
flyingjibus
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Posted: 12/18/2012 11:32:59 AM
lately ive been going with "Fuck you"
SilentProtest
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Posted: 12/18/2012 11:39:12 AM
"Each year, approximately 5,000 persons under the age of 21 die from causes related to underage drinking." Are you holding alcohol producers responsible? Are you actively boycotting these products? Are you demanding legislation reform to prevent 5,000 deaths next year? Have you or someone you know ever driven under the influence of drugs or alcohol?
(http://report.nih.gov/NIHfactsheets/ViewFactSheet.aspx?csid=21)

cycletool
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Posted: 12/18/2012 11:42:14 AM
"We can talk about when I get to limit your 1st ammendment rights based on misinformation and ignorance."
NetWurk
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Posted: 12/18/2012 11:46:25 AM
Originally Posted By SilentProtest:
"Each year, approximately 5,000 persons under the age of 21 die from causes related to underage drinking." Are you holding alcohol producers responsible? Are you actively boycotting these products? Are you demanding legislation reform to prevent 5,000 deaths next year? Have you or someone you know ever driven under the influence of drugs or alcohol?
(http://report.nih.gov/NIHfactsheets/ViewFactSheet.aspx?csid=21)



I'm having a hard enough time keeping my guns. I've already quit smoking. Now you want to start whipping up liberal outrage over alcohol? You DO know that we once had alcohol prohibition in this country, right? And they amended the Constitution to do it, too. You need to leave this off your list when talking to liberals because I don't want to live in land ruled by teetotalers.
SilentProtest
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Posted: 12/18/2012 11:48:56 AM
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
The first amendment pertains to freedom of religion. If gun rights are being constricted or removed, perhaps you would enjoy being forced to attend a pagan/islamic/christian/insert whatever is not theirs/ church. Not only should you be forced to practice a religion against your beliefs, but doing otherwise would be illegal and worthy of imprisonment.
phatmax
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Posted: 12/18/2012 11:49:08 AM
When a patient dies on the operating table, does the family sue the operating table maker? It seems that with so many dying on tables and in hospital beds, that tables and beds should be banned.
In Memory of Mishi. 08/13/10
We The People. 09171787

I "Down Twinkles" Occupy.
Colonel_Angus
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Posted: 12/18/2012 11:50:46 AM
Your delusional if you think ideological opposites listen to that and change their mind or believe you are right.
Originally By Ventilator: ARFCOM's political prowess is much akin to a mentally challenged kid smoking crack while trying to write a thesis paper on thermonuclear dynamics.
brifol6111
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Posted: 12/18/2012 11:52:23 AM
this is my latest FB post:

Lest we forget...

In 1938 Germany passed sweeping Gun Laws and bans on the ownership of firearms, this is what came next.

JoshAston
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Posted: 12/18/2012 11:53:35 AM
[Last Edit: 12/18/2012 11:55:58 AM by JoshAston]
Don't argue with them. Turn their emotions on them. Play with their narcissism.

"You mean you don't own a gun? What a tool!"

Logic and reason will have no effect on emotion. So you must turn their own emotions against them.

ETA: to change their minds you must create self doubt. Only emotion can do that. Treat them as lesser beings, not worthy to be called men. Don't get angry at them, don't lose your cool, treat them with the pity they'd apply to a mentally handicapped person. Treat them like children.
The only reasonable response to violence is overwhelming counter-violence.

I'm from Texas, what country are you from?
SilentProtest
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Posted: 12/18/2012 11:54:27 AM
Originally Posted By NetWurk:
Originally Posted By SilentProtest:
"Each year, approximately 5,000 persons under the age of 21 die from causes related to underage drinking." Are you holding alcohol producers responsible? Are you actively boycotting these products? Are you demanding legislation reform to prevent 5,000 deaths next year? Have you or someone you know ever driven under the influence of drugs or alcohol?
(http://report.nih.gov/NIHfactsheets/ViewFactSheet.aspx?csid=21)



I'm having a hard enough time keeping my guns. I've already quit smoking. Now you want to start whipping up liberal outrage over alcohol? You DO know that we once had alcohol prohibition in this country, right? And they amended the Constitution to do it, too. You need to leave this off your list when talking to liberals because I don't want to live in land ruled by teetotalers.


No, I don't actively blurt this information, nor do I wish to have alcohol outlawed. These are simply facts and talking points that show we have much larger issues (and arguably easier to control) than guns. Please also note the statistic is for underage drinking.

Your point is well received however, and maybe my approach needs to be centered more around how firearms are commonly used for lawful recreation and self-defense purposes.
buck19delta
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Posted: 12/18/2012 11:54:42 AM
Originally Posted By benchpress:
I've used this point several times recently.

1) How many babies have been murdered by a "doctor"? On the day 20 children were killed by a gun how many hundreds if not thousands were aborted?

2) If we're talking about banning guns to save lives then it's time to ban ALCOHOL.

Please post some short arguments to get the stupid liberals to STFU.


your wasting your time. the only thing that registers with these people, is when someone actually tries to kill them, or someone close to them, and they realize they are not actually safe. they make all their decisions based on emotions. facts are worthless. heres what i posted to all the wailing women on the dicks website, as they cheered dicks for cutting ar sales, and the calls for why do you need a ar-15? your a coward if you have or need one, your not a real man, blah blah..

also...important decisions should be made on facts, and not emotions. i see very few people here, ESPECIALLY the women, operating on facts. The ones who are, i respect you very much, the emotional ones, well, im sure your lives are filled with bad emotion based decisions anyway, whats one more?
there is a place in this world for all of gods creatures....... right next to the mashed potatoes.

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace."
Thomas Paine, 1776

Prime
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Posted: 12/18/2012 11:55:45 AM
Originally Posted By Colonel_Angus:
Your delusional if you think ideological opposites listen to that and change their mind or believe you are right.


Not the point. If it's a publicly accessible forum where more than two people can see it, then it's a billboard for gun rights. This is why it's important to be polite, calm, and rational, and is even more effective if their responses are as emotional and uninformed as they usually are.

...And the Wolves will learn what we've shown before
We love our Sheep, we Dogs of war
-Russ Vaughn
Assaulter
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Posted: 12/18/2012 11:56:02 AM
[Last Edit: 12/18/2012 11:56:52 AM by Assaulter]
There is absolutely no reason that a car should be able to go faster than 70 mph. And yet, thousands die each year from excess speed, many of them children.

Edit- I'm not saying I want a mechanical limiter on cars.
Spade
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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:00:02 PM
I talk about the time me and a P225 intervened in a domestic violence situation (I was just taking out the trash). Our tiny blonde neighbor had three ribs broken by her Marine ex-boyfriend.
I ask them if they'd rather we'd been beaten to death by that guy. Or should I have just abandoned her and gone home? Of course, the cops took 10 minutes to get there.

It's a good story and also true. But any of you guys can use it if you like and modify it as necessary. They lie, so why can't we?
Prime
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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:00:35 PM
Originally Posted By SilentProtest:
Originally Posted By NetWurk:
I'm having a hard enough time keeping my guns. I've already quit smoking. Now you want to start whipping up liberal outrage over alcohol? You DO know that we once had alcohol prohibition in this country, right? And they amended the Constitution to do it, too. You need to leave this off your list when talking to liberals because I don't want to live in land ruled by teetotalers.


No, I don't actively blurt this information, nor do I wish to have alcohol outlawed. These are simply facts and talking points that show we have much larger issues (and arguably easier to control) than guns. Please also note the statistic is for underage drinking.

Your point is well received however, and maybe my approach needs to be centered more around how firearms are commonly used for lawful recreation and self-defense purposes.


They like alcohol too much to give it up, and banning alcohol is more of a Republican thing to do. Alcohol's not going anywhere. An argument that shows them how dangerous common objects or substances are is an effective one, and if they inexplicably TRIED to ban alcohol it would be an instant win for Republicans.

...And the Wolves will learn what we've shown before
We love our Sheep, we Dogs of war
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EKUJustice
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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:01:17 PM
Used this line one someone stating that we shouldnt be allowed to carry guns and they cause more harm than good.

The "first responders" to any incident are going to be those who are their to begin with. If they have the means to defend themselves they greatly increase the chance of a better outcome than if they have to wait for someone to come provide that for them. It is like a fire in say the kitchen, if you catch it quick and arm youself with a fire extinguisher you can usually solve the problem and minimize the damage. If you have to wait and call the fire department and they show up in 10 or 15 minutes even though they have better equipment and are trained for the job at hand the damage from that fire will be worse as it had that 10 or 15 minutes to burn on its own.
motown_steve
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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:05:20 PM
"Because suck my dick!"

Seriously, there's no debating these assholes.
I find it interesting that to liberals, every other part of the Constitution is a living, breathing document, but the Second Amendment is still about muskets and militias
cyclone
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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:05:33 PM
I've already told some left wing relatives that my sporting rifles have killed less than their liberal sponsored abortion clinics.............crass and insensitive I know, but it was in response to their "how do you feel about being an NRA member now"?
Sancho Panza..........stuck in reverse gear since 2007

"The villainy you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction"

Recon_by_Fire
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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:05:47 PM
Originally Posted By flyingjibus:
lately ive been going with "Fuck you"


SilentProtest
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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:06:26 PM
Originally Posted By EKUJustice:
Used this line one someone stating that we shouldnt be allowed to carry guns and they cause more harm than good.

The "first responders" to any incident are going to be those who are their to begin with. If they have the means to defend themselves they greatly increase the chance of a better outcome than if they have to wait for someone to come provide that for them. It is like a fire in say the kitchen, if you catch it quick and arm youself with a fire extinguisher you can usually solve the problem and minimize the damage. If you have to wait and call the fire department and they show up in 10 or 15 minutes even though they have better equipment and are trained for the job at hand the damage from that fire will be worse as it had that 10 or 15 minutes to burn on its own.


I like the fire extinguisher analogy.
I sincerely wonder if any of those children could have been saved if any of the school staff were armed, even with non-lethal devices.
ae1
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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:07:49 PM
Never argue. Your position is not up for debate. You are right and you know it.

Gun guys are awful at frame control. When a shooting happens, they jump on defense as if they have something to be defensive about. We don't. We are correct, we know it, and everyone else needs to play into our worldview, not the other way around.

Libs have been controlling the frame for a long time. Abortion is now synonymous with health and choice. What an insidious frame grab.

The war on women? Cons responded with "nuh uh we don't hate women!" Well guess what. They just caved to the lib frame and lost footing in the discussion.
denverdan
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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:08:28 PM
Originally Posted By flyingjibus:
lately ive been going with "Fuck you"


I generally stick with this.

I just don't give a fuck about trying to argue with retards anymore.
ae1
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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:14:23 PM
If you need to talk about it, don't argue statistics. Don't explain yourself. Certainly never apologize. These are all tells of being on defense and not having frame control.

Frame it your way. When dealing with illogical and emotional people (libs and feminists), use emotion. The other side feels no shame about lying, but they do feel embarrassment after being mocked and ridiculed. Make fun of them. It is the moral low road, but people with a broken moral compass cannot recognize the high road.
SilentProtest
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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:15:29 PM
Originally Posted By denverdan:
Originally Posted By flyingjibus:
lately ive been going with "Fuck you"


I generally stick with this.

I just don't give a fuck about trying to argue with retards anymore.


I agree with both of you, but this is (in my opinion) exactly how Obama won the last election.

Media, social media, friends, family, publications, stupid online polls all influence a human's decision. This is why commercials exist.
I can appreciate the attitude to not give a fuck and not argue, but if that is your approach don't be surprised when there is new legislation limiting gun rights (or whatever the topic at hand).

Joe731
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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:18:55 PM
"I didn't kill anybody. Neither did 80 million other people. Why do you want to punish us?"
Snips
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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:20:15 PM
You're going to change someone's mind about guns, by switching the topic to abortion? That's a very safe topic to inject into a conversation.

LightningII
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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:27:23 PM
Originally Posted By flyingjibus:
lately ive been going with "Fuck you"


me, too.
and by "lately", i mean "my entire adult life".
Edvvard
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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:30:13 PM
Logic won't work. The bleating will drown you out.
mw365
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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:46:43 PM
Originally Posted By EKUJustice:
Used this line one someone stating that we shouldnt be allowed to carry guns and they cause more harm than good.

The "first responders" to any incident are going to be those who are their to begin with. If they have the means to defend themselves they greatly increase the chance of a better outcome than if they have to wait for someone to come provide that for them. It is like a fire in say the kitchen, if you catch it quick and arm youself with a fire extinguisher you can usually solve the problem and minimize the damage. If you have to wait and call the fire department and they show up in 10 or 15 minutes even though they have better equipment and are trained for the job at hand the damage from that fire will be worse as it had that 10 or 15 minutes to burn on its own.


Enhance this. If you choke, you only have a few minutes to live. That's why people learn the Heimlich maneuver.

If an assailant starts shooting, you have roughly the same amount of time to live. What will you do about it?
yankee43
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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:46:45 PM
[Last Edit: 12/20/2012 7:00:28 PM by yankee43]
The 2nd Ammendment is there to ensure tyranny does not become the rule of law. It's to defend against corrupt tyrannical government.

The Libs love the rebels in Syria who ARE USING GUNS to fight a tyrannical dictator, just like rebels did in Libya- another place the Libs loved the rebels.

North Korea doesn't have rebels because the people CAN'T GET GUNS. The only crime we know of in North Korea is PERPETRATED BY THEIR GOVERNMENT. Political dissent in North Korea is punished with internment and firing squads BECAUSE THE PEOPLE CAN'T GET GUNS.

Harry Belafonte wants dissenters here interned in prison and Al Sharpton thinks it's funny! Without the 2nd Ammendment, Harry Belafont's wish would eventually become a reality.

SLAVES IN AMERICA WEREN'T ALLOWED TO HAVE GUNS SO THEY WOULD REMAIN SLAVES!!!
During reconstruction, Southern Democrats passed Jim Crowe laws to keep guns out of the hands of freed slaves.
The slaves were held in bondage by the Confederate (Democrat) Government of the South. They were freed by the Republican Government of the North who fought a costly civil war to do so.

The Emancipation Proclamation did not free the slaves. Men with guns did.

Listen carefully. Watch closely.
dsbock
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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:49:50 PM
I've been going with two lines of argument.

"Admit it, you don't really care about the dead children, this is just another excuse for you to attack a civil right you don't approve of."

or

"The problem isn't that there are guns in schools. The problem is that the wrong people are the only ones with guns in schools."

David
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Sirveaux
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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:51:04 PM
t1nm4n
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Posted: 12/18/2012 12:57:17 PM
I figure most Anti-gun types are completely ignorant about gun, I just say "it's ok to be affraid of something you have no no practical knowledge, it just shows how you allow yourself to led around on a short leash and told what to think. If you want to learn something, go to a gun shop and ask question, but to protest out of iggnorance or misinformation is dissapointing, as a friend I thought you were smarter than that."

People who are scared of motorcycles think they should be banned cause they are dangerous and an impractical way of transportation, partially do to the may youtubers that do stupid shit on them, I personally loved the motorcycle I had when I was in the Navy, unfortunatly someone liked it more than me and forgot to ask if they could have it, some people.

I don't know all the facts, and I probably never will cause there are too many people that want to hide too much about recent events (just incase, im talking about Newtown) and how it could have been avoided, I have grown up around guns all my life, my father was a deputy sheriff part time in CA and TX while I was in grade school and in highschool, We had a safe in our house, one with a nice big combination on it, and let me tell you that safe is heavy. If the mother of this disturbed person (I only say disturbed because I can't fathom any sane moral person on their worst day thinking these actions were justified or warranted in any way) had the proper means to lock these weapons so as to keep them out of the hands of somoene I can only imagine as being mentally challened, then she has gotten what she deserves, it is her fault.

A gun is merley a tool used for good or bad, but none the less a tool, just like a car or scapal a surgion would weild, to give it anything other than is to say it has feelings and right too and shoudl be able a US citizen if it were made produced or manufactured in the US. Just sounds ludicris to me to think an inanimate object is capable of doing anything other than it's intended purpose, offensively or defensivley, and the fact there are people in this world that wich or are capable of harming another human being only strenghtens my resolve that we as humans have the right, andthe duty to protect ourselves.

My dad told me once that the most common phrases a cop hears in his career is "Why Me?" or "Where Were YOU!". That alone says more that we need more guns in this country than by giving up our right to self-defense for a false sense of security.
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Posted: 12/18/2012 1:00:30 PM
We MUST beat the Alcohol drum incessently (sp?) FTR- I enjoy drinking and shooting

The parallels are absolutely perfect.

Why do you need a 30 round mag? Why do you need 80 proof alcohol?

Have you studied the history of prhibition and the 18th and 21st amendments? Do you not understand that at the time well meaning conservatives pushed the nation to prohibition "for our own good."? Do you not know that prohibition was a disaster and that millions of responsible working class people were denied a cold beer while the rich bought out every liquor store in sight and enjoyed their "private stock" since personal consumption was still allowed on anyhting produced pre-ban?

Do you not know that the effects of acohol on our culture are far more devastating and costly than gun ownership and not a single life has ever been saved because somebody had a concealed beer?

Do you not know that the deadlies school killing in our history didn't involve a gun?

You say guns make mass murder possible as opposed to just the 1 or 2 that are killed in a DUI incident...so it's not possible for a drunk to head on a school bus? Has that never happend? So you are ok with children cowering in their rooms as their abusive, drunk father beats the crap out of their mother...again...because alcohol is just to easily available? Because we insist on having hard liquor?

So, you are OK with no "assualt weapons" or 30 round magazines? I guess pump shotguns with 8 rounds of buckshot is ok then?

You ask me if I would feel the same had it been my child killed. Without a doubt, YES. My principles guide my life, not my emotions/grief. I also happen to believe that there are things in life that you cannot control, and murderous lunatics are right there with plane crashes, lightning strikes and tornadoes.
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Posted: 12/18/2012 1:05:59 PM
Gun control is racist and hits the poorest the hardest. Those crafting the gun control laws are the wealthy and powerful and the laws will have little or no impact on them. It leaves those most vulnerable to crime and violence with no way to defend themselves.

This is the best argument I can think of that would stop a liberal in their tracks. If you are FOR gun control you HATE the poor and minorities!
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Posted: 12/18/2012 1:06:29 PM

Abortion Surveillance—Findings and Reports

Abortion Surveillance 2009
In 2009, 784,507 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC from 48 reporting areas. The abortion rate for 2009 was 15.1 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years and the abortion ratio was 227 abortions per 1,000 live births.

Compared with 2008, the total number and rate of reported abortions for 2009 decreased 5% and the abortion ratio decreased 2%. The change from 2008 to 2009 represented the largest single year decrease in the total number and rate of reported abortions for the entire period from 2000 to 2009. Additionally, from 2000 to 2009 the number, rate, and ratio of reported abortions decreased 6%, 7%, and 8%, respectively, to the lowest levels for this entire period.

Women in their twenties accounted for the majority of abortions in 2009 and throughout the period of analysis. The majority of abortions in 2009 took place early in gestation: 91.7% of abortions were performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation, and of the abortions performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation, 69.8% were performed at ≤ 8 weeks’ gestation. In 2009, 16.5% of all abortions were medical abortions. Source: MMWR 2012;61(No. 8).

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AJK07734
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Posted: 12/18/2012 1:13:00 PM
[Last Edit: 12/18/2012 1:13:25 PM by AJK07734]
Originally Posted By benchpress:
I've used this point several times recently.

1) How many babies have been murdered by a "doctor"? On the day 20 children were killed by a gun how many hundreds if not thousands were aborted?

2) If we're talking about banning guns to save lives then it's time to ban ALCOHOL.

Please post some short arguments to get the stupid liberals to STFU.


It's dividing by Zero.....

Newsflash..they dont CARE about facts..they dont CARE about Truth..they are acting purely out of Hysterical Emotion..you CANT shut them up.

Example: Comment made by a libtard "Everyone who owns a gun should be killed"
Response by ME " So you would call for the deaths of 84 MILLION people you dont agree with..and GUN OWNERS are the problem??"
her answer "Blather blather blather, 26 dead children Blather blather you are callous"

SHE calls for deaths but I'M the "Callous" asshole They are and i hate to use the term but it fits.. FUCKING RETARDED and you cant argue with that.
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AudiDat
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Posted: 12/18/2012 1:24:04 PM
I usually go with some form of " I feel my families lives are worth protecting."
The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.
-Thomas Jefferson
PL#106
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Posted: 12/18/2012 1:30:21 PM
Originally Posted By SilentProtest:
Originally Posted By denverdan:
Originally Posted By flyingjibus:
lately ive been going with "Fuck you"


I generally stick with this.

I just don't give a fuck about trying to argue with retards anymore.


I agree with both of you, but this is (in my opinion) exactly how Obama won the last election.

Media, social media, friends, family, publications, stupid online polls all influence a human's decision. This is why commercials exist.
I can appreciate the attitude to not give a fuck and not argue, but if that is your approach don't be surprised when there is new legislation limiting gun rights (or whatever the topic at hand).



Fair enough that does make sense. I will try to educate when possible.
But those who cannot be reached fuck them

Brohawk
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Posted: 12/18/2012 1:35:26 PM
According to the US Department of Justice, law-abiding citizens use a firearm in self defense more than 2.5 million times a year.

Would you rather that these innocent people were defenseless and ended up as victims of criminals, beaten, robbed, raped, and murdered?
"I yelled "HEY!! W.T.F!!!?? as I pointed my M-OU812 urban ass-salt axe handle menacingly at him, just daring him to come take my gummy bears!"
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Posted: 12/18/2012 1:41:05 PM
Originally Posted By cycletool:
"We can talk about when I get to limit your 1st ammendment rights based on misinformation and ignorance."


I like this one
SilentProtest
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Posted: 12/18/2012 1:41:55 PM
Originally Posted By denverdan:
Originally Posted By SilentProtest:
Originally Posted By denverdan:
Originally Posted By flyingjibus:
lately ive been going with "Fuck you"


I generally stick with this.

I just don't give a fuck about trying to argue with retards anymore.


I agree with both of you, but this is (in my opinion) exactly how Obama won the last election.

Media, social media, friends, family, publications, stupid online polls all influence a human's decision. This is why commercials exist.
I can appreciate the attitude to not give a fuck and not argue, but if that is your approach don't be surprised when there is new legislation limiting gun rights (or whatever the topic at hand).



Fair enough that does make sense. I will try to educate when possible.
But those who cannot be reached fuck them



That's the spirit!
mks99
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Posted: 12/18/2012 1:59:14 PM
[Last Edit: 12/18/2012 2:27:00 PM by mks99]
Laws only apply to LAW ABIDING CITIZENS.

1. Murder of his mother
2. Theft of firearms
3. Violation of a gun free zone
4. Breaking and entering ( of the school that was locked)
5. Murder of the kids and teachers

So which new law was going to stop him from doing the above?

A bomb or a knife could have also been used. They have in other documented instances. So how does your attempting to restrict my liberties stop what happened?

ETA: and would we be having this discussion if it was only one child? Why does the death of 26 become more impactful to your liberal sensibilities then the death of 1or 2?
The greatest tragedy is to have the experience and miss the meaning.
vanvideo
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Posted: 12/18/2012 2:12:54 PM
Rush Limbaugh had a perfect argument against the anti-gun liberals. I'm paraphrasing, but it goes like this:

When you can guarantee to me that my family and I will NEVER be attacked by a criminal with his own gun or other weapon, then I will disarm.
Can you promise me this will NEVER happen? (Of course, they cannot.) If not, then I will keep my guns and do my best to protect my family from harm.

And always, I respect and support all of the amendments in the Bill of Rights. I do not place any above the others, they are all equally important. As an fellow American, I am sure you feel the same (put them on the defensive).

And, I have done nothing wrong. Why are you persecuting me?
texassooner
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Posted: 12/18/2012 2:16:53 PM
how about this - ask them how many mass shootings have happened at a gun range, gun show, etc.

Then ask them about how many mass shootings have happened at schools, churches, etc where you cannot carry a gun.

"Mr. President, take your campaign of division and anger and hate back to Chicago," - Mit Romney
Prime
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Posted: 12/19/2012 12:57:35 AM

A Nation of Cowards

Jeffrey R. Snyder

OUR SOCIETY has reached a pinnacle of self-expression and respect for individuality rare or unmatched in history. Our entire popular culture -- from fashion magazines to the cinema -- positively screams the matchless worth of the individual, and glories in eccentricity, nonconformity, independent judgment, and self-determination. This enthusiasm is reflected in the prevalent notion that helping someone entails increasing that person's "self-esteem"; that if a person properly values himself, he will naturally be a happy, productive, and, in some inexplicable fashion, responsible member of society.

And yet, while people are encouraged to revel in their individuality and incalculable self-worth, the media and the law enforcement establishment continually advise us that, when confronted with the threat of lethal violence, we should not resist, but simply give the attacker what he wants. If the crime under consideration is rape, there is some notable waffling on this point, and the discussion quickly moves to how the woman can change her behavior to minimize the risk of rape, and the various ridiculous, non-lethal weapons she may acceptably carry, such as whistles, keys, mace or, that weapon which really sends shivers down a rapist's spine, the portable cellular phone.

Now how can this be? How can a person who values himself so highly calmly accept the indignity of a criminal assault? How can one who believes that the essence of his dignity lies in his self-determination passively accept the forcible deprivation of that self-determination? How can he, quietly, with great dignity and poise, simply hand over the goods?





A World Without Guns

Be forewarned: It’s not a pretty picture

By Dave Kopel, Paul Gallant, and Joanne Eisen of the Independence Institute
December 5, 2001 9:40 a.m.


"Imagine the world without guns" was a bumper sticker that began making the rounds after the murder of ex-Beatle John Lennon on December 18, 1980. Last year, Lennon's widow, Yoko Ono, followed up on that sentiment by announcing she would become a spokeswoman for Handgun Control, Inc. (which later changed its name to the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, and which was previously named the National Council to Control Handguns).

So let's try hard to imagine what a world without guns would look like. It isn't hard to do. But be forewarned: It's not a pretty picture.





The Gun Is Civilization

By Maj. L. Caudill, USMC (Ret)

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.





Tough Targets

By Clayton E. Cramer and David Burnett

The ostensible purpose of gun control legislation is to reduce firearm deaths and injuries. The restriction of access to firearms will make criminals unable to use guns to shoot people. Gun control laws will also reduce the number of accidental shootings. Those are the desired effects, at least in theory. It is important, however, for conscientious policymakers to consider not only the stated goals of gun control regulations, but the actual results that they produce.

What would be the effect of depriving ordinary, law-abiding citizens from keeping arms for self-defense? One result seems certain: the law-abiding would be at a distinct disadvantage should criminals acquire guns from underground markets. After all, it is simply not possible for police officers to get to every scene where they are urgently needed.




Of Holocausts and Gun Control

Cite as 75 Wash. U. L.Q. 1237
DANIEL D. POLSBY

This essay seeks to reclaim a serious argument from the lunatic fringe. We argue a connection exists between the restrictiveness of a country's civilian weapons policy and its liability to commit genocide[1] upon its own people. This notion has received a good deal of disdainful public attention over the past several years because of the Oklahoma City bombing, the "Republic of Texas" siege, and the inflamed subculture from which the defendants in those incidents emerged. Some Americans, it appears, believe that their country is on the verge--if not in the grip--of a virtual coup by a sinister international directorate of Jews, one-worlders, and Trilateralists. For them, acting on this belief means arming oneself and confronting representatives of government with distrust, if not open hostility. By now it is widely appreciated that people with this particular fixation can be extremely dangerous. Yet their delusions take a special bitterness from the fact that something real and terrifying, the problem of genocide, lies in the general direction of their paranoia.




Human Rights and Gun Confiscation

By David B. Kopel*, Paul Gallant**, & Joanne D. Eisen***

INTRODUCTION
“Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person,”
affirms Article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It is well-documented that firearms in the hands of warlords, terrorists, and other rogues have been used to perpetrate human rights abuses. Accordingly, some persons argue that governments can implement the principles of the Universal Declaration by confiscating all firearms from citizens, or by very severely restricting the possession of firearms.2 This entitled to respect for his life and the integrity of his person.”); id. at ch. 1, art. 6 (“Every
individual shall have the right to liberty and to the security of his person.”). Article addresses a human rights problem which has been generally ignored by the advocates of firearms confiscation: the human rights abuses stemming from the enforcement of confiscation or similar laws. This Article does not make any claim that there is an international human right to possess arms, or even a human right of self-defense; the authors also, for purposes of this Article, ignore the rights of self defense and the rights to arms that are contained in various national constitutions.3 Rather, this Article documents some of the human rights abuses that result from the types of gun control and gun prohibition programs supported by the United Nations and other international gun control advocates.





Self-Defense; An Endangered Right

The withdrawal of a basic right of Englishmen is having dire consequences in Great Britain, and should serve as an object lesson for Americans. Today, in the name of public safety, the British government has practically eliminated the citizens’ right to self-defense. That did not happen all at once. The people were weaned from their fundamental right to protect themselves through a series of policies implemented over some 80 years. Those include the strictest gun regulations of any democracy, legislation that makes it illegal for individuals to carry any article that could be used for personal protection, and restrictive limits on the use of force in self-defense. Britons have been taught, in the words of a 1992 Economist article, that such policies are “a restraint on personal liberty that seems, in most civilized countries, essential to the happiness of others.” The author contrasted those policies with “America’ s vigilante values.”



...And the Wolves will learn what we've shown before
We love our Sheep, we Dogs of war
-Russ Vaughn
coltm4sp1
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Posted: 12/19/2012 1:02:27 AM
When they tell you that you don`t need a gun like the AR , You tell them it`s not the Bill Of Needs , IT`S THE BILL OF RIGHTS. And its your right to own one.
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid
-General Dwight D. Eisenhower
HogJaws
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Posted: 12/19/2012 1:15:10 AM
Originally Posted By ae1:
Never argue. Your position is not up for debate. You are right and you know it.

Gun guys are awful at frame control. When a shooting happens, they jump on defense as if they have something to be defensive about. We don't. We are correct, we know it, and everyone else needs to play into our worldview, not the other way around.

Libs have been controlling the frame for a long time. Abortion is now synonymous with health and choice. What an insidious frame grab.

The war on women? Cons responded with "nuh uh we don't hate women!" Well guess what. They just caved to the lib frame and lost footing in the discussion.

This is the answer.

I've been replying with something to the effect of "None of your business. I don't answer to you. You live your hilarious life and I'll live mine."

They want to have an "adult discussion", and they want to treat us like we need a fucking babysitter at the same time. They really, really hate being told to STFU and go away, misery loves company after all.
I hate AKs, but they're perfect for turd world contries who's populace you have to remind not to shit in the well water. - Boom_Stick
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Posted: 12/19/2012 1:16:52 AM
Originally Posted By benchpress:
I've used this point several times recently.

1) How many babies have been murdered by a "doctor"? On the day 20 children were killed by a gun how many hundreds if not thousands were aborted?

2) If we're talking about banning guns to save lives then it's time to ban ALCOHOL.

Please post some short arguments to get the stupid liberals to STFU.


You can't reason with an irrational non-thinker...
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Posted: 12/19/2012 1:18:28 AM
"Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither."
Thanks, and gig 'em!
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