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Posted: 12/15/2012 3:08:53 PM EDT
[#1]
In public schools system,IMO,it is not up to them to decide about arming employees. All this I imagine will have to be approved on the State level.
Not trying to throw cold water here-just thinking out loud. What will teachers unions say on that? Schools are "weapon free zone",that is including staff. Only LE,who are "only minutes away" are allowed to carry if I understand correctly. Private school as a Pilot program is a good idea. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 3:09:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Jrzy, if you need any thing let me know.
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Posted: 12/15/2012 3:10:28 PM EDT
[#3]
I think it's a good idea, however, here on this forum you're preaching to the choir. The folks you want to help don't want your help. They want your gun. Give it a try, but don't be surprised when all you get is hostility.
Best of luck. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 3:12:58 PM EDT
[#4]
tag
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Posted: 12/15/2012 3:14:59 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: Teachers don't like being a sitting duck either In public schools system,IMO,it is not up to them to decide about arming employees. All this I imagine will have to be approved on the State level. Not trying to throw cold water here-just thinking out loud. What will teachers unions say on that? Schools are "weapon free zone",that is including staff. Only LE,who are "only minutes away" are allowed to carry if I understand correctly. Private school as a Pilot program is a good idea. We will convince enough of them to get behind this, their unions will then get behind them, then the state legislators will get the message if any state laws stand in our way Schools are not gun free zones every where by the way |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 3:19:14 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: When you're faced with the reality of losing your life or the life of little children and any help offered by dem liberals is years away what then?I think it's a good idea, however, here on this forum you're preaching to the choir. The folks you want to help don't want your help. They want your gun. Give it a try, but don't be surprised when all you get is hostility. Best of luck. Not really help from dems, just empty promises to ban the instrument of the killing Then you look at life as it really is, a dangerous place. An active crazy with no gun can still get 10 gallons of gas and a 20 pound propane tank right? Guns go away and crazy's disappear? No, they switch their method of killing and kill many more |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 3:26:48 PM EDT
[#7]
Jrzy, I hope you are met with open arms by at least a few. Because a few is all it would take to turn the table. Good luck on your endeavor.
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Posted: 12/15/2012 3:28:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
My initial impression is that this will not go as you thought it would. I think it would be prudent to steer toward having LEO at every school. I live 4 houses down from a middle school and there is a police officer there every single school day. My high school had 2 there every day. Agencies are being downsized all the time, i recall an argument not all that long ago where people were bitching on a local forum of what a "Waste of taxpayer money" it was to have Cops in Schools for ANY reason 
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Posted: 12/15/2012 3:31:38 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: This might be a good place to start some discussions.I am a high school assistant principal and would love any help you could throw to the state of TX I know of one district that allows carry by employees, Harrold school district in northwest Texas http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/12/14/4486104/texas-school-where-teachers-carry.html supported by § 46.035 of the Texas Penal code. apparently the superintendent just needs to provide written authorization, but i suppose that would be hard to obtain in various parts of the state Like I said , once we get a few door open and the program operating it can take off quickly. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 3:40:52 PM EDT
[#10]
Perhaps towns can institute a volunteer school police force with enough law enforcement training to be sworn law enforcement officers.
That satisfies federal and state law for carriage on school grounds issues without having to change any laws. Just thinking out loud. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 3:55:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
In public schools system,IMO,it is not up to them to decide about arming employees. All this I imagine will have to be approved on the State level. Not trying to throw cold water here-just thinking out loud. What will teachers unions say on that? Schools are "weapon free zone",that is including staff. Only LE,who are "only minutes away" are allowed to carry if I understand correctly. Private school as a Pilot program is a good idea. It would have to be state specific, and you may need some legislative asisstance. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 3:58:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Excellent!
Show everyone that the government is not the only group of people capable getting good stuff done. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 4:07:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Train and deputize anyone within the school system who is willing to take on that added responsibility. That way no new hires will need to be made and no understaffed police departments will have to provide the extra manpower themselves. Equip them with weapons and portable radios. That cuts lots of costs and manpower needs right from the start. I don't know how things are in every state, but I believe most sheriff's departments can have as many "special/reserve/volunteer" deputies as they want.
I fully support what you are trying to do. I have been advocating something like this for years. I hope you will at least find some school systems that will be receptive. If a few will take that lead, maybe others will follow. Yesterday's tragedy should finally make people wake up and realize that there is only one way to stop this kind of attack, and that is to have people in place to meet it as it starts with their own weapons. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 4:18:41 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
I support what you are doing. Teachers and Principals SHOULD be armed. That is the only solution. What about volunteer parents? I don't think teachers and admins are the "only" solution. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 4:27:12 PM EDT
[#15]
PM sent
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Posted: 12/15/2012 4:41:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Keep us posted on this, the amount of support you will get will be astonishing.
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Posted: 12/15/2012 4:49:30 PM EDT
[#17]
Glad someone had an idea similar to mine and will bring it to fruition. I was telling a few people including my wife who is a teacher, what we need is an armed teacher already on the inside to contain the threat till the police arrive. Those first minutes are critical to the outcome and can save lives.
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Posted: 12/15/2012 4:51:00 PM EDT
[#18]
Great, home schoolers left out in the cold again...
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Posted: 12/15/2012 4:55:35 PM EDT
[#19]
I really hope this project is successful and catches on nationwide!!!
Good luck, you'll need it as it's an uphill battle! 
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Posted: 12/15/2012 5:01:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Not a bad plan. And participating schools should get Artemis signs and window stickers so that perps can choose to go to another victim disarmament zone instead.
This is the first "for the children" effort that I can endorse! |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 5:13:09 PM EDT
[#21]
I really think this is the only REAL solution to end these sort of crimes. I don't have much to offer, but my support. I hope this actually goes well, and that the right people are receptive.
Good luck, I truly hope this works |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 5:15:35 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
I approve! |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 5:21:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
In public schools system,IMO,it is not up to them to decide about arming employees. All this I imagine will have to be approved on the State level. Not trying to throw cold water here-just thinking out loud. What will teachers unions say on that? Schools are "weapon free zone",that is including staff. Only LE,who are "only minutes away" are allowed to carry if I understand correctly. Private school as a Pilot program is a good idea. It would have to be state specific, and you may need some legislative asisstance. I think it would be a good idea to get the state rifle associations involved in this step. I know ours here in KS works hard to get pro gun bills through the legislature. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 5:22:26 PM EDT
[#24]
This is relevant to my interests.
My wife is starting her practicum/internship as a school counselor in January and is interested in crisis management as her project of excellence.
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Posted: 12/15/2012 5:23:51 PM EDT
[#25]
I approve and firmly believe, like the general population, that there are more teachers than you might think who would like to be able to defend the kids they look after during the day. I'll support this with money too if that's where it goes.
This country needs to stop being squeamish about what actions will really protect us from psychopaths bent on killing. All of us in the "choir" need to defend this concept passionately any chance we get. At work, with friends, family and social media. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 5:27:04 PM EDT
[#26]
So...how do I help?
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Posted: 12/15/2012 5:48:37 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: I'm pretty sure the federal law on schools is gone nowPerhaps towns can institute a volunteer school police force with enough law enforcement training to be sworn law enforcement officers. That satisfies federal and state law for carriage on school grounds issues without having to change any laws. Just thinking out loud. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 5:52:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Glad someone had an idea similar to mine and will bring it to fruition. I was telling a few people including my wife who is a teacher, what we need is an armed teacher already on the inside to contain the threat till the police arrive. Those first minutes are critical to the outcome and can save lives. These low life scum bags never encounter any resistance at all, they are soft targets , thats why they can do it. This will not only help protect our children from crazies, it might even preempt a terrorist attack on a school which we all believe is coming. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 5:52:12 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
The end goal is trained personal allowed to carry covertly in schools to stop an active shooter on a rampage. It's such an unlikely event I just don't see the point really. But good luck with your efforts. At least it does do SOMETHING. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 5:53:07 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Not a bad plan. And participating schools should get Artemis signs and window stickers so that perps can choose to go to another victim disarmament zone instead. This is the first "for the children" effort that I can endorse! Yep, the difference is this really is a program for the childrens safety |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 5:58:01 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: This is relevant to my interests. My wife is starting her practicum/internship as a school counselor in January and is interested in crisis management as her project of excellence. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 5:58:39 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: It does a lotQuoted: The end goal is trained personal allowed to carry covertly in schools to stop an active shooter on a rampage. It's such an unlikely event I just don't see the point really. But good luck with your efforts. At least it does do SOMETHING. Yes school shootings are rare Now They are going to go up, mark my words For the money I am going to spend it is cost effective for sure, if one childs life is saved it's worth it. Now it also shows us, the firearm community has plans that will in reality save lives You know what the left has for an answer, ban guns, thats all they can do This is an actual method and plan to save lives It puts more CCW people into society that might even save more lives It will help prevent a lot of deaths form what we all know is coming, terror attacks in our soft target schools |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 6:04:19 PM EDT
[#33]
First, I think the armed pilot analogy is effective. Second, recognize that schools are "gun free" because that's what the people have demanded. The schools and teachers just do what they're told. It's not the teachers you have to convince - it's the parents. And, anyway, you're never going to win teachers over by blaming them for the current state of things. Finally, be aware that you are talking about adding a massive responsibility to a teacher's daily duties here. You're putting the burden of deadly force decisions on their shoulders. You're going to add training/licensing requirements. And if this goes through you'd have teachers bringing guns into their cars and homes - which might be new and uncomfortable for them - unless you're going to have them report to the school armory every morning. All of those things would cost money.
ETA-I think the best way to simplify things (weapon choice, training, what to do in an emergency, solving the problem of LEOs recognizing that armed teachers are not targets, etc.) would be a partnership between schools and their local PD. But I betcha' the local PD is going to be a source of resistance. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 6:08:48 PM EDT
[#34]
This is a fantastic idea, how can I help?
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Posted: 12/15/2012 6:39:57 PM EDT
[#35]
Great idea! I agree whole heartedly
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Posted: 12/15/2012 6:49:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Staff/Mods I want to make this clear I am only looking for help as for suggestions in getting this done. I am putting up the money and guns to get this started first here in Pa and Jersey and then with hope to make this a nation wide grass roots effort. I have been in contact and bringing on board 3 lawyers, one from Jersey , one from further up north and one from Pa to help with state laws and other hurdles. As a Firearms MFGer I feel obligated by to help & do what I can, my expertise is bringing people with the best skills for the job together. We will begin training any school personnel/Teachers who want it and will move toward training them in combat tactical in CQC. We will be outlining the programs and logistics in short order. We want firearm uniformity in the same school systems for training and God forbid an emergency does come they have like guns and mags, for the same reason Police do. Like I said we aren't looking for anything other than some good input to help get off the ground ion the right way and as soon as possible. I have been in touch with other firearm MFGers and dealers and the money is not going to be an issue at all. The goal here is to protect our Children and the people who care for them 7 hours a day. If you don't have anything good to say please don't say anything at all. I will be contacting staff so that anyone who can help with training or other wise will be able to. We will be getting a web site up as soon as we can. The end goal is trained personal allowed to carry covertly in schools to stop an active shooter on a rampage. The name we have is "The Artemis Project" Artemis is a protector of Children and the Vulnerable from Greek Mythology In case it's not already clear Artemis project will be providing the training, weapons, ammo, and other good & services to schools and school employees at no cost to them, as a matter of fact if the schools need other supplies I think we can help with that too. You should be commended for this OP. I really hope this takes off and is a model for the nation. I'd glady support this with my tax dollars and more. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 6:56:33 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
... In case it's not already clear Artemis project will be providing the training, weapons, ammo, and other good & services to schools and school employees at no cost to them, as a matter of fact if the schools need other supplies I think we can help with that too. Overall and excellent plan and I will help, as much as I can, if needed. (NRA instructor in VA) The part above is also an excellent idea. I suggest you use that angle with even bigger picture that you may have initially intended. For example, offer the school like kind aid if they refuse firearms and training but make a formal request for other aide. Make no promises, do what you can, and then send lots of supplies with "The Artemis Project" logo all over it and tons of firearm safety information. God Bless you jrzy. You give me hope in this despair. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 7:10:30 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
You will get endless support from us, you will get an instant cold shoulder once you start talking to the people you are wanting to implement this toward. I don't know. I've seen arming teachers and administrators suggested by some of my teacher and administrator friends and I've been suggesting it to others. So far the reception has been very positive. Providing training makes it even more acceptable in many eyes. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 7:45:17 PM EDT
[#39]
Funny, I had a very similar thought today.
Two items to consider - 1: Contact a good, quality maker of pistol safes, someone like V line with a mechanism that is robust and not easily picked or pried open. I think that a number of small safes, in multiple, dispersed locations known to the trained faculty, with a common quick access code, provides for better coverage than expecting teachers to actively CCW every day. Think of them as fire extinguishers of a sort - with a weapon and 2-3 spare mags. Magazine in, chamber empty. 2: This event is shifting thinking, it's beyond the typical Brady rants, there is something else happening. I caught a facebook post today from an extremely left wing, historically anti-gun neighbor of mine today who also happens to be a teacher. She made the comment that "perhaps it is time". That she has always been opposed to guns but was seriously considering getting a weapon, getting trained, getting a CCW and being able to actively defend her students if it came to that. I was completely floored. But I believe that there are people on the left, people who have been gun control advocates that are beginning realize that the people that are physically there when something happens are really the ones that can stop these things. That is the discussion that needs to be happening now. That is the conversation we need to have with these people saying "It's time to have a serious discussion about guns in this country" |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 7:47:51 PM EDT
[#40]
I support what you're doing, but I don't think there are many that will take advantage of it. Far too many educators fear to even look at a gun.
But best of luck to you. Fight the good fight for us. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 9:24:46 PM EDT
[#41]
I wish you would do this in Florida. I would be the first teacher in line.
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Posted: 12/15/2012 9:33:43 PM EDT
[#42]
Awesome! You have my support!
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Posted: 12/15/2012 9:48:11 PM EDT
[#43]
Tag. This is a great idea.
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Posted: 12/15/2012 10:08:22 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
My initial impression is that this will not go as you thought it would. I think it would be prudent to steer toward having LEO at every school. I live 4 houses down from a middle school and there is a police officer there every single school day. My high school had 2 there every day. Agreed.. I think this is something cities and communities should start DEMANDING.. With so many agencies wanting to do crime prevention and community policing - do it at the Schools It would be great to have some trained/qualified school personnel who can protect our children, but it will take some time..Until then, they can put Cops in schools NEXT WEEK.. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 10:30:53 PM EDT
[#45]
I applaud you. This is the sort of thing that needs to happen. I don't know what I could do to help, besides talk to my son's teachers and the PTA (it's a public school in a very conservative county.) I'd imagine that is a few years down the road. Thank you. As others have said private schools would probably be the best launchpads for it. This is the sort of thing that could win hearts and minds, and most importantly make an actual difference.
Bravo! bookmarked and keeping an eye on the thread. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 10:34:10 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Train and deputize anyone within the school system who is willing to take on that added responsibility. That way no new hires will need to be made and no understaffed police departments will have to provide the extra manpower themselves. Equip them with weapons and portable radios. That cuts lots of costs and manpower needs right from the start. I don't know how things are in every state, but I believe most sheriff's departments can have as many "special/reserve/volunteer" deputies as they want. I fully support what you are trying to do. I have been advocating something like this for years. I hope you will at least find some school systems that will be receptive. If a few will take that lead, maybe others will follow. Yesterday's tragedy should finally make people wake up and realize that there is only one way to stop this kind of attack, and that is to have people in place to meet it as it starts with their own weapons. I would also consider actively recruiting retired Leo/Mil and CCW holders for security positions and to assist with training other volunteers from the school system. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 10:35:23 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
I support what you are doing. Teachers and Principals SHOULD be armed. That is the only solution. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 10:36:08 PM EDT
[#48]
Arizona may be a viable area to begin your project.
1) "Gun Culture" The majority of people here don't seem to quiver at the mention or sight of a firearm. 2) Active AZCDL (Arizona Citizens Defense League) legislative/advocacy organization. 3) Governor Jan Brewer, somewhat pro-freedom/firearms. 4) Constitutional Carry Law (as well as licensed CCW, legal Open Carry) 6) Numerous firearms manufacturers in state. |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 10:53:02 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
I really hope this project is successful and catches on nationwide!!!
Good luck, you'll need it as it's an uphill battle! This...I'd love to see this happen! Best of luck! |
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Posted: 12/15/2012 10:56:08 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
You will get endless support from us, you will get an instant cold shoulder once you start talking to the people you are wanting to implement this toward. Unfortunately, I think this. Before I started contracting over here I worked at a school district in Houston doing IT support. I had 6 middle schools assigned to me. I can think of very few people on any of those campuses who would be willing to do that. Of course there are some who would and I FULLY support this effort but I feel it would be an uphill battle BUT one well worth the effort if it means the lives of kids will be saved. Good idea OP! |
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