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piccolo
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Posted: 11/30/2012 6:20:01 AM
[Last Edit: 11/30/2012 6:22:50 AM by piccolo]
http://piccoloshash.blogspot.com/2009/12/my-feminine-side-blog-stays-pink.html
----------------------------------------

Vote "YES" on 'NO'!

For Captain Erick Foster, Wexford, PA KIA 29 Aug, 07.
Rangers lead the way.
FrankSymptoms
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Posted: 11/30/2012 7:03:57 AM
Six or seven stiffening corpses with bullet holes in them laying around a generator are likely to make even the most hardened thief think twice but it is not to be under the present legal system.



I understand that Texas is pretty open-minded about such doings. It's legal to shoot someone who is stealing your stuff in TX.

Besides, a smaller generator can run a whole lot longer on a whole lot less gas and if there is, and likely there will be, an accompanying gasoline shortage than not. Gas will probaby be harder to come by and a smaller engine that sips it instead of gulping it can be run a lot longer on a limited amount of what will likely become liquid gold.


My opinion FWIW is that the best system entails a small (1 KW) generator for operratiing as you describe, and a larger one (5-10 KW) for the heavier loads. Maximum conservation of fuel + maximum capability are achieved this way.

Good 'un, Pic. Keep 'em coming!
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
-- George Orwell
batmanacw
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Posted: 11/30/2012 7:17:09 AM
I agree with your assessment. I have three levels of generator. A HF two stroke 800 watt, a champion inverter 2000 watt, and a champion 4000 watt. The HF genny is a great loaner for running a fridge when your sisters power is out.

The inverter genny is very quiet.
If everyone is replaceable, then stop being everyone.
ssgsnake
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Posted: 11/30/2012 7:29:40 AM
I agree with you for the most part based on your assessment of Hurricane Sandy and general Opsec.
However, even in an urban environment, location and situation is key. During Hurricane Katrina, your
assessment is spot on for most areas. In the Garden District it was different. We couldn't even get in
there to do repairs to the phone system. The residents banded together with their private security folks
and denied access to everyone, including the local police at times. Also, say someone lives on a 500
acre farm in Iowa, would your assessment apply?

Anyway, another great blog Pic. I guess another thread got me over thinking everything this morning.
Survivor of the great ARF Cock Storm of 11/2012

"If Francis Scott Key could have banged Betsy Ross they'd have crapped out Captain America as their love child. " - Vne
batmanacw
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Posted: 11/30/2012 7:37:24 AM
Originally Posted By ssgsnake:
I agree with you for the most part based on your assessment of Hurricane Sandy and general Opsec.
However, even in an urban environment, location and situation is key. During Hurricane Katrina, your
assessment is spot on for most areas. In the Garden District it was different. We couldn't even get in
there to do repairs to the phone system. The residents banded together with their private security folks
and denied access to everyone, including the local police at times. Also, say someone lives on a 500
acre farm in Iowa, would your assessment apply?

Anyway, another great blog Pic. I guess another thread got me over thinking everything this morning.


Good point about the location. Im out in the country so my chances of losing my generator to theft is much less than someone in town. We would be using mostly oil lamps so most folks driving by would not notice we were using a generator.

When I agreed it was understanding that the OP was discussing being in a town or city.
If everyone is replaceable, then stop being everyone.
PKT1106
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Posted: 11/30/2012 7:52:59 AM
We are looking at a permanant NG generator for our house. We have everything heated using NG, furnace, stove, water heater, dryer and uses 110V power. Your analysis intrigues me, though. I was looking at a Generac System with at least 10Kw of power to run almost everything in the house, but do I really want to telegraph that to potential bad people? I was thinking more of planning ahead because there are a lot of older folks in my neighborhood that can't afford such a system on their fixed budget and having a house with heat & power close by would be helpful, if not life-saving. Also, I could take advantage of 6-7 grandmas cooking up a storm in my kitchen.
Archtaan
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Posted: 11/30/2012 7:53:55 AM
We have a 16K for running the whole house. It runs off of propane. Also have a small Honda and a HF for the light loads so we can use regular fuel as well.
Survivor of the great ARFcockalypse of 11/2012.
Plattekill
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Posted: 11/30/2012 7:55:06 AM
The weak link is dependency on natural gas. It's not something you want to think about and it does not get disrupted in average situations, but it's just as fragile as the rest of our technology.

Get a propane tank for backup.
mucknuggle
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Posted: 11/30/2012 7:56:31 AM
Originally Posted By ssgsnake:
I agree with you for the most part based on your assessment of Hurricane Sandy and general Opsec.
However, even in an urban environment, location and situation is key. During Hurricane Katrina, your
assessment is spot on for most areas. In the Garden District it was different. We couldn't even get in
there to do repairs to the phone system. The residents banded together with their private security folks
and denied access to everyone, including the local police at times. Also, say someone lives on a 500
acre farm in Iowa, would your assessment apply?

Anyway, another great blog Pic. I guess another thread got me over thinking everything this morning.


If you're worried about looters, keeping out NOPD may be a good move.
mucknuggle
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Posted: 11/30/2012 7:57:47 AM
Originally Posted By PKT1106:
We are looking at a permanant NG generator for our house. We have everything heated using NG, furnace, stove, water heater, dryer and uses 110V power. Your analysis intrigues me, though. I was looking at a Generac System with at least 10Kw of power to run almost everything in the house, but do I really want to telegraph that to potential bad people? I was thinking more of planning ahead because there are a lot of older folks in my neighborhood that can't afford such a system on their fixed budget and having a house with heat & power close by would be helpful, if not life-saving. Also, I could take advantage of 6-7 grandmas cooking up a storm in my kitchen.



Those puppies put out a lot of power, but you definitely know they're running. Some them seem like you could hear them from Space.
4v50
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Posted: 11/30/2012 7:58:45 AM
Thanks pic.
batmanacw
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Posted: 11/30/2012 8:00:41 AM
Originally Posted By PKT1106:
We are looking at a permanant NG generator for our house. We have everything heated using NG, furnace, stove, water heater, dryer and uses 110V power. Your analysis intrigues me, though. I was looking at a Generac System with at least 10Kw of power to run almost everything in the house, but do I really want to telegraph that to potential bad people? I was thinking more of planning ahead because there are a lot of older folks in my neighborhood that can't afford such a system on their fixed budget and having a house with heat & power close by would be helpful, if not life-saving. Also, I could take advantage of 6-7 grandmas cooking up a storm in my kitchen.


Why run your home like nothing happened? Just run what you need and save the fuel.
If everyone is replaceable, then stop being everyone.
Snowleopard
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Posted: 11/30/2012 8:05:54 AM
Me, currently, I look at what's at auction, like this thing.

Now, granted, that might be junk, fixable, or operationaly; I don't know.

But that "availability", for the present, is one of the things that's driving my pickup truck research, both from the capability to being able to get it.....and maybe having a common fuel source between them.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
("Bright idea, Mr. Bond,"--Blofield, (w,stte), "Diamonds are Forever")
batmanacw
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Posted: 11/30/2012 8:13:26 AM
Originally Posted By Snowleopard:
Me, currently, I look at what's at auction, like this thing.

Now, granted, that might be junk, fixable, or operationaly; I don't know.

But that "availability", for the present, is one of the things that's driving my pickup truck research, both from the capability to being able to get it.....and maybe having a common fuel source between them.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
("Bright idea, Mr. Bond,"--Blofield, (w,stte), "Diamonds are Forever")


Are you going run a huge business? Why would you want that much power and fuel consumption? That will run a small town.....
If everyone is replaceable, then stop being everyone.
Snowleopard
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Posted: 11/30/2012 8:31:22 AM
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By Snowleopard:
Me, currently, I look at what's at auction, like this thing.

Now, granted, that might be junk, fixable, or operationaly; I don't know.

But that "availability", for the present, is one of the things that's driving my pickup truck research, both from the capability to being able to get it.....and maybe having a common fuel source between them.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Are you going run a huge business? Why would you want that much power and fuel consumption? That will run a small town.....


Because on the opening bid, it's cheap and fits into planned infrastructure. Something like a P250 might be more reasonable, but two things: it's gasoline powered and that's not good and it's better to have too much power and try to figure what to do with it than not have enough power.

You make a decent point of "that thing would power a small town".....but look at it this way: out in the middle of the country and no power from the city. Run that thing for a short time to charge batteries, fill the water tanks, perhaps fill a column as a kinetic energy source....then turn it off. Turn it back on when needing to charge batteries, fill water tanks, etc..

As I said, I look at what's out there. It it's cheap but comes with too much capability, well, I'll figure out what to do with that other ability.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
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batmanacw
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Posted: 11/30/2012 9:18:08 AM
Originally Posted By Snowleopard:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By Snowleopard:
Me, currently, I look at what's at auction, like this thing.

Now, granted, that might be junk, fixable, or operationaly; I don't know.

But that "availability", for the present, is one of the things that's driving my pickup truck research, both from the capability to being able to get it.....and maybe having a common fuel source between them.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Are you going run a huge business? Why would you want that much power and fuel consumption? That will run a small town.....


Because on the opening bid, it's cheap and fits into planned infrastructure. Something like a P250 might be more reasonable, but two things: it's gasoline powered and that's not good and it's better to have too much power and try to figure what to do with it than not have enough power.

You make a decent point of "that thing would power a small town".....but look at it this way: out in the middle of the country and no power from the city. Run that thing for a short time to charge batteries, fill the water tanks, perhaps fill a column as a kinetic energy source....then turn it off. Turn it back on when needing to charge batteries, fill water tanks, etc..

As I said, I look at what's out there. It it's cheap but comes with too much capability, well, I'll figure out what to do with that other ability.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
("I feel the need, the need for speed!"--Maverick and Goose, (w,stte), "Top Gun")


You can do everything you mentioned with a much more efficient generator. I went with 3500 running watts because it is exactly big enough to run my well pump with a little extra room to spare. Once I get showers done and my water storage filled and the furnace run a bit the bigger genny goes off and my very efficient inverter genny takes over to maintain my fridge and freezer and charging batteries.


The only way your plan is not very inefficient is if you actually need to run huge loads. That huge genny would be great for running the farm during milking or the silo unloaders by themselves.
If everyone is replaceable, then stop being everyone.
Snowleopard
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Posted: 11/30/2012 9:25:04 AM
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By Snowleopard:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By Snowleopard:
Me, currently, I look at what's at auction, like this thing.

Now, granted, that might be junk, fixable, or operationaly; I don't know.

But that "availability", for the present, is one of the things that's driving my pickup truck research, both from the capability to being able to get it.....and maybe having a common fuel source between them.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Are you going run a huge business? Why would you want that much power and fuel consumption? That will run a small town.....


Because on the opening bid, it's cheap and fits into planned infrastructure. Something like a P250 might be more reasonable, but two things: it's gasoline powered and that's not good and it's better to have too much power and try to figure what to do with it than not have enough power.

You make a decent point of "that thing would power a small town".....but look at it this way: out in the middle of the country and no power from the city. Run that thing for a short time to charge batteries, fill the water tanks, perhaps fill a column as a kinetic energy source....then turn it off. Turn it back on when needing to charge batteries, fill water tanks, etc..

As I said, I look at what's out there. It it's cheap but comes with too much capability, well, I'll figure out what to do with that other ability.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________


You can do everything you mentioned with a much more efficient generator. I went with 3500 running watts because it is exactly big enough to run my well pump with a little extra room to spare. Once I get showers done and my water storage filled and the furnace run a bit the bigger genny goes off and my very efficient inverter genny takes over to maintain my fridge and freezer and charging batteries.


The only way your plan is not very inefficient is if you actually need to run huge loads. That huge genny would be great for running the farm during milking or the silo unloaders by themselves.


How much did that generator cost?

As far as whether or not I am running huge loads, that's undetermined at this time. I obviously won't be growing Mary Jane, but I do plan to be working with algae and power needs for that project are unknown at this time.
_________________________________________________________________________________________
("You had enough drugs in you to tranquilize a latin america country!"--Hillary to Sarah, (w,stte), "Models Inc.")
ar-jedi
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Posted: 11/30/2012 9:25:49 AM
[Last Edit: 11/30/2012 9:30:11 AM by ar-jedi]
Originally Posted By piccolo:
http://piccoloshash.blogspot.com/
Pretty basic

same concept detailed over a 12 day span::
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/661411_Sandy____12_days_without_power__what_worked__what_didn_t____.html

----------

Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By Snowleopard:
Because on the opening bid, it's cheap and fits into planned infrastructure. Something like a P250 might be more reasonable, but two things: it's gasoline powered and that's not good and it's better to have too much power and try to figure what to do with it than not have enough power.

You make a decent point of "that thing would power a small town".....but look at it this way: out in the middle of the country and no power from the city. Run that thing for a short time to charge batteries, fill the water tanks, perhaps fill a column as a kinetic energy source....then turn it off. Turn it back on when needing to charge batteries, fill water tanks, etc..

As I said, I look at what's out there. It it's cheap but comes with too much capability, well, I'll figure out what to do with that other ability.

You can do everything you mentioned with a much more efficient generator. I went with 3500 running watts because it is exactly big enough to run my well pump with a little extra room to spare. Once I get showers done and my water storage filled and the furnace run a bit the bigger genny goes off and my very efficient inverter genny takes over to maintain my fridge and freezer and charging batteries. The only way your plan is not very inefficient is if you actually need to run huge loads. That huge genny would be great for running the farm during milking or the silo unloaders by themselves.

that sort of high power, part-time use is easily served by a PTO generator. if you are on farmland, you already have a maintained tractor -- just hook the PTO generator up. one less engine to deal with, and you don't have to worry about it not working. some (small-scale) details are in the link above.

ar-jedi
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
h3smith
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Posted: 11/30/2012 9:28:26 AM
I know once I spend $5k-10k on a generator, I'll never have the need for it, because power will magically never go out.
bulldog1967
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Posted: 11/30/2012 9:29:04 AM
Originally Posted By PKT1106:
We are looking at a permanant NG generator for our house. We have everything heated using NG, furnace, stove, water heater, dryer and uses 110V power. Your analysis intrigues me, though. I was looking at a Generac System with at least 10Kw of power to run almost everything in the house, but do I really want to telegraph that to potential bad people? I was thinking more of planning ahead because there are a lot of older folks in my neighborhood that can't afford such a system on their fixed budget and having a house with heat & power close by would be helpful, if not life-saving. Also, I could take advantage of 6-7 grandmas cooking up a storm in my kitchen.


I am looking at one of these as well.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
~William Pitt

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bulldog1967
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Posted: 11/30/2012 9:29:53 AM
Originally Posted By mucknuggle:
Originally Posted By PKT1106:
We are looking at a permanant NG generator for our house. We have everything heated using NG, furnace, stove, water heater, dryer and uses 110V power. Your analysis intrigues me, though. I was looking at a Generac System with at least 10Kw of power to run almost everything in the house, but do I really want to telegraph that to potential bad people? I was thinking more of planning ahead because there are a lot of older folks in my neighborhood that can't afford such a system on their fixed budget and having a house with heat & power close by would be helpful, if not life-saving. Also, I could take advantage of 6-7 grandmas cooking up a storm in my kitchen.



Those puppies put out a lot of power, but you definitely know they're running. Some them seem like you could hear them from Space.


The new (good) ones are no more louder than a car engine idling.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
~William Pitt

@Semper_Fidelity on twitter
batmanacw
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Posted: 11/30/2012 9:36:10 AM
Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
Originally Posted By piccolo:
http://piccoloshash.blogspot.com/
Pretty basic

same concept detailed over a 12 day span::
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/661411_Sandy____12_days_without_power__what_worked__what_didn_t____.html

----------

Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By Snowleopard:
Because on the opening bid, it's cheap and fits into planned infrastructure. Something like a P250 might be more reasonable, but two things: it's gasoline powered and that's not good and it's better to have too much power and try to figure what to do with it than not have enough power.

You make a decent point of "that thing would power a small town".....but look at it this way: out in the middle of the country and no power from the city. Run that thing for a short time to charge batteries, fill the water tanks, perhaps fill a column as a kinetic energy source....then turn it off. Turn it back on when needing to charge batteries, fill water tanks, etc..

As I said, I look at what's out there. It it's cheap but comes with too much capability, well, I'll figure out what to do with that other ability.

You can do everything you mentioned with a much more efficient generator. I went with 3500 running watts because it is exactly big enough to run my well pump with a little extra room to spare. Once I get showers done and my water storage filled and the furnace run a bit the bigger genny goes off and my very efficient inverter genny takes over to maintain my fridge and freezer and charging batteries. The only way your plan is not very inefficient is if you actually need to run huge loads. That huge genny would be great for running the farm during milking or the silo unloaders by themselves.

that sort of high power, part-time use is easily served by a PTO generator. if you are on farmland, you already have a maintained tractor -- just hook the PTO generator up. one less engine to deal with, and you don't have to worry about it not working. some (small-scale) details are in the link above.

ar-jedi


They have two pto generators. I just mentioned that as scale to understand how much power 60k is.
If everyone is replaceable, then stop being everyone.
ar-jedi
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Posted: 11/30/2012 9:39:14 AM
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
I just mentioned that as scale to understand how much power 60k is.

agree -- 60kw is 10 houses worth.

ar-jedi
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
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Posted: 11/30/2012 10:09:52 AM
What is a good way to calculate how much energy you need?

Say you want to keep your AC running in the winter and gas furnace running in the winter, Water heater, and fridge?
TrojanMan
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Posted: 11/30/2012 10:16:49 AM
I took advantage of this weekend's sale and bought a Honda EU2000i.

This thing is a ninja.

It's so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up.
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Posted: 11/30/2012 10:17:27 AM
We never have extreme weather here. Well we have wind storms. I only have portable back up heaters in case we lose power in the winter I don't see the need for a generator.
The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all.
ssgsnake
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Posted: 11/30/2012 10:21:23 AM
Originally Posted By mucknuggle:
Originally Posted By ssgsnake:
I agree with you for the most part based on your assessment of Hurricane Sandy and general Opsec.
However, even in an urban environment, location and situation is key. During Hurricane Katrina, your
assessment is spot on for most areas. In the Garden District it was different. We couldn't even get in
there to do repairs to the phone system. The residents banded together with their private security folks
and denied access to everyone, including the local police at times. Also, say someone lives on a 500
acre farm in Iowa, would your assessment apply?

Anyway, another great blog Pic. I guess another thread got me over thinking everything this morning.


If you're worried about looters, keeping out NOPD may be a good move.


Quit It with the cop bashing. The officers with the 1st District NOPD were professional and above board.
Survivor of the great ARF Cock Storm of 11/2012

"If Francis Scott Key could have banged Betsy Ross they'd have crapped out Captain America as their love child. " - Vne
TrojanMan
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Posted: 11/30/2012 10:22:45 AM
Originally Posted By h3smith:
What is a good way to calculate how much energy you need?

Say you want to keep your AC running in the winter and gas furnace running in the winter, Water heater, and fridge?


Of course. Just find the power draw of the highest load piece of gear you're driving. In your list, that'll either be the water heater or the frige, if it's older. Power one at a time.

Personally, I'd give up on hot running water. Easy enough to just use a basin and washcloth so you don't need to heat 30 gallons. For a week? You can deal with it. Or get a gas water heater - it'll save you money over time anyhow.


If you're an absolute noob and you have no idea what a watt is, just get a 2kW class generator. The EU2000i I just bought, for example.
All your residential breakers are 15amps, which at 110VAC is 1650 watts, max load.

A 2000 watt generator, then, will run anything you can plug into a wall outlet, plus a few lightbulbs.
Popov
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Posted: 11/30/2012 10:24:10 AM

Originally Posted By h3smith:
What is a good way to calculate how much energy you need?

Say you want to keep your AC running in the winter and gas furnace running in the winter, Water heater, and fridge?
http://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/generator-wattage-estimation-guide

Sorry, I'm Drunk.
ar-jedi
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Posted: 11/30/2012 12:41:37 PM
Originally Posted By h3smith:
What is a good way to calculate how much energy you need?
Say you want to keep your AC running in the winter summer and gas furnace running in the winter, Water heater, and fridge?

the fridge is no problem, even a 1KW generator will do that.
the furnace -- it depends on what type. forced hot air is easy for a 2KW generator.
the A/C -- you are going to need a bigger boat. a 2 ton central unit is gong to require a 10KW generator to start up.

see the calculator link posted above.

ar-jedi
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Keith_J
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Posted: 11/30/2012 12:52:51 PM
My dream system is to split my 240 volt loads off the main panel, running them off the generator which will turn on by demand.

The generator will also charge a battery bank which will feed a whole-house inverter. Voltage of the bank will be monitored by the generator demand system.

This will lower the hours of operation of the generator and increase its load. The inverter will take light loads, I figure a 5 kW inverter for each leg and a 10 kW generator will be fine for most houses. Battery bank size will depend on the 120 volt loads.

Another way to save is heat recovery off the generator. For things like home heat and domestic hot water.
What is wrong? We tolerate mediocrity and call it diversity.
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ar-jedi
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Posted: 11/30/2012 1:07:29 PM
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
I took advantage of this weekend's sale and bought a Honda EU2000i.
This thing is a ninja.
It's so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up.

hey ferris bueller, how much did you pay for your EU2000i, and where?

ar-jedi

Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
HarryStone
The Original Colt .45
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Posted: 11/30/2012 1:20:41 PM
Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
I took advantage of this weekend's sale and bought a Honda EU2000i.
This thing is a ninja.
It's so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up.

hey ferris bueller, how much did you pay for your EU2000i, and where?

ar-jedi



Same here, I'd like to know too.
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LowBeta
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Posted: 11/30/2012 1:46:42 PM
+ ups on piped nat. gas. Maintaining bulk storage of gasoline is kind of a hassle (or against code) in built up areas. i've seen several people run out of gasoline within 24 hours of going to generator power and then discovering they could not make it to a gas station for a refill. Flooding, heavy snows, washed out roads... Hard to steal a big-assed GenerAC.
God sometimes subcontracts -- A funny guy
HarryStone
The Original Colt .45
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Posted: 11/30/2012 1:55:22 PM
Originally Posted By LowBeta:
Maintaining bulk storage of gasoline is kind of a hassle (or against code) in built up areas.


That's why we use natural gas generators at our data center. Not legal to have a big LP tank. We do have the option of running gas grill tanks, I hope we never have to.
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Londo
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Posted: 11/30/2012 2:14:24 PM
I just finished learning a very expensive lesson about Generac generators...

Mine is a 10,000 watt commercial grade portable; about twelve years old, with less than twenty hours on
the engine. I ran it every month under load, and serviced it regularly as the manual instructed.

A circuit board went bad and the local Generac repair shop charged me $682.00 to replace it.
While they were testing their work, the generator head began smoking. They said it would cost more to
fix it that the unit was worth..Bottom line: $2300.00 generator + $682.00 "repair" = an unusable Generac.

They told me their components are proprietary and they no longer have parts for my unit.

It's the journey.
ASUsax
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Posted: 11/30/2012 2:37:33 PM
Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
Originally Posted By h3smith:
What is a good way to calculate how much energy you need?
Say you want to keep your AC running in the winter summer and gas furnace running in the winter, Water heater, and fridge?

the fridge is no problem, even a 1KW generator will do that.
the furnace -- it depends on what type. forced hot air is easy for a 2KW generator.
the A/C -- you are going to need a bigger boat. a 2 ton central unit is gong to require a 10KW generator to start up.

see the calculator link posted above.

ar-jedi


This is why my plan involves a 5000 BTU 'window shaker'. Middle of the Summer in AZ without A/C is... uncomfortable... to say the least. So I cool only 1 room (and the attached bathroom) if the power goes out. If it's not summer, then I'm likely to use my 1KW generator, not my 4KW unit, and just run the fridge.
HarryStone
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Posted: 11/30/2012 2:57:37 PM
Originally Posted By Londo:
I just finished learning a very expensive lesson about Generac generators...

Mine is a 10,000 watt commercial grade portable; about twelve years old, with less than twenty hours on
the engine. I ran it every month under load, and serviced it regularly as the manual instructed.

A circuit board went bad and the local Generac repair shop charged me $682.00 to replace it.
While they were testing their work, the generator head began smoking. They said it would cost more to
fix it that the unit was worth..Bottom line: $2300.00 generator + $682.00 "repair" = an unusable Generac.

They told me their components are proprietary and they no longer have parts for my unit.



We lost one when the field delaminated. Same kind of thing, some smoke and some copper shavings in the bottom of the enclosure. The dealer said "unofficially" that Generac had a bad batch of them. This wasn't a portable though.

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Balforin
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Posted: 11/30/2012 3:00:45 PM
Yamaha 2000

Need more than 2000w? Hook two together. (they are yamahas version of the honda)

They can be had for 1k. Two would cost you 2k.

They sip gas, are quiet, can be carried anywhere, are inverter type for electrionics, and when paired can dump 240v into your house. If you have two you can not only get your 240v, you can split them up and power your parents/inlaws house too.
ar-jedi
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Posted: 11/30/2012 3:58:25 PM
Originally Posted By Balforin:
Yamaha 2000

Need more than 2000w? Hook two together. (they are yamahas version of the honda)

They can be had for 1k. Two would cost you 2k.

They sip gas, are quiet, can be carried anywhere, are inverter type for electrionics, and when paired can dump 240v into your house. If you have two you can not only get your 240v, you can split them up and power your parents/inlaws house too.

no -- you are not getting 240Vac out of that pair of inverter generators. you get twice the current (up to 30A / 3600W @ 120Vac), but in no case are you getting 240Vac.

ar-jedi
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Balforin
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Posted: 11/30/2012 4:45:47 PM
Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
Originally Posted By Balforin:
Yamaha 2000

Need more than 2000w? Hook two together. (they are yamahas version of the honda)

They can be had for 1k. Two would cost you 2k.

They sip gas, are quiet, can be carried anywhere, are inverter type for electrionics, and when paired can dump 240v into your house. If you have two you can not only get your 240v, you can split them up and power your parents/inlaws house too.

no -- you are not getting 240Vac out of that pair of inverter generators. you get twice the current (up to 30A / 3600W @ 120Vac), but in no case are you getting 240Vac.

ar-jedi


You are correct and I stand corrected.

ar-jedi
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Posted: 11/30/2012 5:18:10 PM
Originally Posted By Balforin:
Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
Originally Posted By Balforin:
They sip gas, are quiet, can be carried anywhere, are inverter type for electrionics, and when paired can dump 240v into your house. If you have two you can not only get your 240v, you can split them up and power your parents/inlaws house too.

no -- you are not getting 240Vac out of that pair of inverter generators. you get twice the current (up to 30A / 3600W @ 120Vac), but in no case are you getting 240Vac.

You are correct and I stand corrected.

this is a common question when pairing inverter-type generator.

in general unless there are specific design measures taken by the generator manufacturer, and additional external cabling connections are provided, there is no way to first synchronize and then maintain the required 180 degree phase difference between the outputs between the two generators. and without that 180 degree phase difference, you are not getting 240Vac typical of a residential split phase power system.

ar-jedi

Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
HarryStone
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Posted: 11/30/2012 5:30:24 PM
Originally Posted By ar-jedi:

there is no way to first synchronize and then maintain the required 180 degree phase difference between the outputs between the two generators



You could 240 every once in a while. Hope you don't mind a little smoke.
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Bones45
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Posted: 11/30/2012 5:32:33 PM
Originally Posted By Snowleopard:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By Snowleopard:
Me, currently, I look at what's at auction, like this thing.

Now, granted, that might be junk, fixable, or operationaly; I don't know.

But that "availability", for the present, is one of the things that's driving my pickup truck research, both from the capability to being able to get it.....and maybe having a common fuel source between them.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Are you going run a huge business? Why would you want that much power and fuel consumption? That will run a small town.....


Because on the opening bid, it's cheap and fits into planned infrastructure. Something like a P250 might be more reasonable, but two things: it's gasoline powered and that's not good and it's better to have too much power and try to figure what to do with it than not have enough power.

You make a decent point of "that thing would power a small town".....but look at it this way: out in the middle of the country and no power from the city. Run that thing for a short time to charge batteries, fill the water tanks, perhaps fill a column as a kinetic energy source....then turn it off. Turn it back on when needing to charge batteries, fill water tanks, etc..

As I said, I look at what's out there. It it's cheap but comes with too much capability, well, I'll figure out what to do with that other ability.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
("I feel the need, the need for speed!"--Maverick and Goose, (w,stte), "Top Gun")


As I understand it, a big issue with surplus generators is parts and maintenance. Apparently there are people who's business is buying, re-selling and servicing them.
Hitler had nothing on us: 4 million abandoned animals euthanized every year. Spay. Neuter. Rescue.
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Posted: 11/30/2012 5:40:34 PM
Originally Posted By Plattekill:
The weak link is dependency on natural gas. It's not something you want to think about and it does not get disrupted in average situations, but it's just as fragile as the rest of our technology.

Get a propane tank for backup.


As a side note. Our house is hooked to two natural gas supplies. One is a six inch gathering line that is tied into dozens of wells within a mile of my house. And the other is to a natural gas well 200 yards from my house. Should things go very bad I can just shut the valve to the production line and supply my house with a hundred years of natural gas. And that is wet gas too, not the stripped stuff most city folks are used to.

FrankSymptoms
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Posted: 11/30/2012 5:55:00 PM
Originally Posted By Plattekill:
The weak link is dependency on natural gas. It's not something you want to think about and it does not get disrupted in average situations, but it's just as fragile as the rest of our technology.

Get a propane tank for backup.


Yep. New Mexico gets most of its NG from Texas. Last year's cold snap found Texas' electrical generation grid faulty,and NM lost a LOT of its NG for heating. Some people died. Many buildings suffered damage from frozen pipes; when the heat came back on, the water damage was pretty severe in many cases.
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
-- George Orwell
FrankSymptoms
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Posted: 11/30/2012 5:58:37 PM
Originally Posted By Snowleopard:
Me, currently, I look at what's at auction, like this thing.

Now, granted, that might be junk, fixable, or operationaly; I don't know.

But that "availability", for the present, is one of the things that's driving my pickup truck research, both from the capability to being able to get it.....and maybe having a common fuel source between them.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
("Bright idea, Mr. Bond,"--Blofield, (w,stte), "Diamonds are Forever")


Be VERY careful of old .mil technology! I had a computer monitor ruined by a .mil genny (probably WWII-vintage!) which put out a power surge. The surge burned a nickle-sized hole in my (admittedly cheap) surge protector; the $250 monitor protected the ten-cent fuse by blowing out first.
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
-- George Orwell
LongueCarabine
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Posted: 11/30/2012 6:03:37 PM
What I want is a MEP-003A or 004A, I will either put it on a slab or mount it on a 1.5 ton trailer.

Unless you have a crane and/or a Deuce and a half, you ain't hauling it off.

And those generators are made for continuous duty, not like those Home Depot cheapies that will break after a day or two of running.

I don't give a shit about the noise, except that maybe it will cover the sound of the gunshots.

LC
"I want to hear the leeches scream before I die." - stolen from someone on Subguns.com.
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Posted: 11/30/2012 7:09:23 PM
PM bump
http://piccoloshash.blogspot.com/2009/12/my-feminine-side-blog-stays-pink.html
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Posted: 12/1/2012 7:39:22 AM

Originally Posted By FrankSymptoms:
Originally Posted By Snowleopard:
Me, currently, I look at what's at auction, like this thing.

Now, granted, that might be junk, fixable, or operationaly; I don't know.

But that "availability", for the present, is one of the things that's driving my pickup truck research, both from the capability to being able to get it.....and maybe having a common fuel source between them.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
("Bright idea, Mr. Bond,"--Blofield, (w,stte), "Diamonds are Forever")


Be VERY careful of old .mil technology! I had a computer monitor ruined by a .mil genny (probably WWII-vintage!) which put out a power surge. The surge burned a nickle-sized hole in my (admittedly cheap) surge protector; the $250 monitor protected the ten-cent fuse by blowing out first.


Rent never buy......... you don't have to pay for the maintenance and it's easier to upgrade to a newer model.

RIO-lover: On a constant quest for premium trim.
Snowleopard
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Posted: 12/1/2012 2:06:39 PM
Originally Posted By Bones45:
As I understand it, a big issue with surplus generators is parts and maintenance. Apparently there are people who's business is buying, re-selling and servicing them.


Agreed. If I get into the surplus generator buying activity, one of the prospects of it is "taking a mechanic" with me to determine if the article in question is worth buying. Now that "mechanic" may be someone hired (now) or knowledge in my head (later).

I run into logistical problems, on the face of it, if I buy a generator and it won't work for me. Trying to sell it later, in whole or parts, may conflict with how it is bought from the government. If it is more of a monument than a generator, it may be of use to me only as a parts source or for bartering.......and I'm not ready to spend my money on such things without a clear plan.
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"Of course, you just need to leave a deposit."--Construction owner, (w,stte), "Clear and Present Danger")
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