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Posted: 11/22/2012 6:59:23 AM EST
I have some former military friends at work that claim the AR paltform will never be as reliable as the AK. What are your thoughts on this?

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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:01:38 AM EST
IBT people confuse tolerances and clearances

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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:01:49 AM EST
Sturdier magazine. Looser tolerances. Both says a lot towards reliability.

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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:02:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 7:03:01 AM EST by DocBull]
More like compairing a scalpel with a shovel.

Ar are just fine and reliable when taken care of, think of them as a fine sexy lady they work better clean and wet.

Ak are the shovel, more like a broken entrenching tool... not all that shaddy but can get the job done.
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:02:39 AM EST
I would agree based off of functioning and the malfunctions I have witnessed in an m16, and how often they need to be "cleaned".

AR>AK on iron sights though......for me.....

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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:04:44 AM EST
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:05:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By TallerThanYou:
I would agree based off of functioning and the malfunctions I have witnessed in an m16, and how often they need to be "cleaned".

AR>AK on iron sights though......for me.....


If you are talking about issued M16 then you might be packing around something you grand daddy shot the barrel out of.

Those poor ass issue rifles have had the hell shot out of them, ran dry, and cleaned half assed their entire service life.. no wonder they fucking fail.
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:05:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By 4v50:
Sturdier magazine. Looser tolerances. Both says a lot towards reliability.


The increased taper in the 7.62x39 is also a factor worth mentioning. If my WASR is any indication though, and it probably is not, the AR platform is more reliable than the AK platform.

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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:06:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 7:10:57 AM EST by AngeredKabar]
A lot of AKs you can find here aren't put together all that great and you can get a lot of problems.

I've had less trouble with my AR than I've had with my SKS...

Also I'm gonna say that maybe the US Mil. goes a little overboard with cleaning and doesn't use ideal lubricants, so someone getting out of the military might think they need to be cleaned thoroughly and their past experiences with failures may be due to lubrication problems.

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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:07:37 AM EST
Yep.

AKs are the most reliable firearms ever. Ever.
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:08:18 AM EST
The AK design is pretty simple and reliable and the wide tolerances for parts and ammunition only adds to that. However, even AKs have their limits and can and do fail. Also, they do require proper a maintenance just like any weapon.

My experience - YMMV

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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:08:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By RustedAce:
Yep.

AKs are the most reliable firearms ever. Ever.


I poured marbles into my action and it still shot .001 MOA.
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:09:21 AM EST
Your friend is correct. In a similar way the AK will never be as accurate as the AR. It's give an take. If you want a highly accurate firearm you need tighter tolerances, which make a gun more likely to have problems in harsh environments or when it gets dirty.
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:09:24 AM EST
You need a Kanye West meme for this.

Originally Posted By RustedAce:
Yep.

AKs are the most reliable firearms ever. Ever.



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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:09:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By BustinCaps:
Originally Posted By RustedAce:
Yep.

AKs are the most reliable firearms ever. Ever.


I poured marbles into my action and it still shot .001 MOA.



I pounded on my barrel with a sledge hammer for two hours and it still outshot my AR.

My friend who was in the military confirms this.
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:10:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By DocBull:
Originally Posted By TallerThanYou:
I would agree based off of functioning and the malfunctions I have witnessed in an m16, and how often they need to be "cleaned".

AR>AK on iron sights though......for me.....


If you are talking about issued M16 then you might be packing around something you grand daddy shot the barrel out of.

Those poor ass issue rifles have had the hell shot out of them, ran dry, and cleaned half assed their entire service life.. no wonder they fucking fail.


And an issued AK was treated better? Why wouldn't you compare the two in their military applications since they really get beat up and tested there.

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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:10:57 AM EST


Yes. If someone has one that's unreliable, it has something wildly out of spec.

This reliability will cost you some accuracy, especially on the 7.62x39 platform.

My 5.45 AKs are still more than accurate enough for iron sights or 1x optics.
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:11:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By RustedAce:

Originally Posted By BustinCaps:
Originally Posted By RustedAce:
Yep.

AKs are the most reliable firearms ever. Ever.


I poured marbles into my action and it still shot .001 MOA.



I pounded on my barrel with a sledge hammer for two hours and it still outshot my AR.

My friend who was in the military confirms this.


My friend in the miltary said he shot one WITH an AR and still was able to snipe 40 haji's from 650 yards. He even had two confiirmed indirect fire kills with it at a wedding!!!
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:11:16 AM EST
This thread is full of and will continue to be full of disinformation.

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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:11:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By TallerThanYou:
And an issued AK was treated better? Why wouldn't you compare the two in their military applications since they really get beat up and tested there.

Issued AKs are actually treated worse!

They are stored in metal bins full of all kinds of refuse because the countries that own them dont usually maintain proper armories!
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:12:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By BustinCaps:
My friend in the miltary said he shot one WITH an AR and still was able to snipe 40 haji's from 650 yards. He even had two confiirmed indirect fire kills with it at a wedding!!!

Was he in "The sandstan?" or the "Ghanbox"?

I heard thats where the action is.
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:12:55 AM EST
My friend who was in the Salvation Army scoffs at your praise of the AK.

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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:13:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 7:23:47 AM EST by 6winchester2]
Originally Posted By joker581:
AKs do tend to be extremely reliable, but they can fail just like any other weapon. There's also a great variety of manufacturers, ranging from modern factories using state of the art machinery and highly skiller laborers to semiretarded Pakistsani villagers cobbling together rifles out of handmade parts. All AKs are not created equal and sometimes it shows.


Hey!

You no make fun of my relatives in Kazakhstan making AK rifles.

AK rifle from my village in Kazakhstan is very NIIIIIIIIIICE. Like mini i-Pod. And not too much raping.

Oh, wait. Did you say Pakistan?

Oh, never mind. Yes, AK from Pakistan not as good quality as Kazakhstan. Probably sucks.

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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:13:07 AM EST
AR-15s are more reliable than you think.

AK-47s are more accurate than you think.

The internet is great at making mountains out of molehills because people with little real world experience obsess over what they read online. So relatively minor differences are magnified greatly. I see this all the time at the gunstore I work at–– guys who will never take their guns out of the protective hard case until they are already at a shooting bench absolutely melting down over whether the AR-15 they want to buy is parkerized underneath the front sight base. Because "everyone knows" it must be a shitty gun if it isn't parkerized under the front sight base. Just like "everyone knows" AKs never jam and can't hit a man sized target beyond 200 yards.

Uh huh. Sure.
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:13:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By RustedAce:

Originally Posted By BustinCaps:
My friend in the miltary said he shot one WITH an AR and still was able to snipe 40 haji's from 650 yards. He even had two confiirmed indirect fire kills with it at a wedding!!!

Was he in "The sandstan?" or the "Ghanbox"?

I heard thats where the action is.


Worse, bro. Vietnam. Viet-fucking-nam.
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:13:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By aardvark_ratnick:
This thread is full of and will continue to be full of disinformation.

Where is the "like" button on this thing? (searches arfcom GUI in vain)
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:14:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By RustedAce:
Yep.

AKs are the most reliable firearms ever. Ever.


I thought you hated AKs!?

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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:14:48 AM EST
I ain't gonna lie, I wish I had a full auto, double underfolder Chinese AK....

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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:18:29 AM EST
there is nothing the AK cannot do...




I heard mattel makes M16s and M4s, my buddy from vietnam said it
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:18:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By RustedAce:

Originally Posted By BustinCaps:
Originally Posted By RustedAce:
Yep.

AKs are the most reliable firearms ever. Ever.


I poured marbles into my action and it still shot .001 MOA.



I pounded on my barrel with a sledge hammer for two hours and it still outshot my AR.

My friend who was in the military confirms this.


I heated mine in a furnace to 12000 degrees, then pulled it out and tossed it into a pit under a pile of dead NVA for 3 years. Then flooded that pit with salt water and concrete. 1 year later we dug it up and it was a little rusty on the op rod but otherwise it was like new. Shoot a .25 MOA 30 rnd group with it 0 malfunctions. My cousin smuggler that to Afghanistan with him and is using that WASR instead of his issue m4. He had 700 confirmed kills with it


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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:18:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
AR-15s are more reliable than you think.

AK-47s are more accurate than you think.

The internet is great at making mountains out of molehills because people with little real world experience obsess over what they read online. So relatively minor differences are magnified greatly. I see this all the time at the gunstore I work at–– guys who will never take their guns out of the protective hard case until they are already at a shooting bench absolutely melting down over whether the AR-15 they want to buy is parkerized underneath the front sight base. Because "everyone knows" it must be a shitty gun if it isn't parkerized under the front sight base. Just like "everyone knows" AKs never jam and can't hit a man sized target beyond 200 yards.

Uh huh. Sure.


Best post of thread.


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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:19:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 7:20:15 AM EST by Bushmaster1984]
my tier 1 SF vietnam vet Uncle took the firing pin out of an his AK (he ditched his mickey mattel mouse rifle)


after removing the firing pin........the AK still fired!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:21:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bushmaster1984:
my tier 1 SF vietnam vet Uncle took the firing pin out of an his AK (he ditched his mickey mattel mouse rifle)


after removing the firing pin........the AK still fired!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Does your uncle sell beef jerky at gun shows?
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:21:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By RustedAce:

Originally Posted By BustinCaps:
Originally Posted By RustedAce:
Yep.

AKs are the most reliable firearms ever. Ever.


I poured marbles into my action and it still shot .001 MOA.



I pounded on my barrel with a sledge hammer for two hours and it still outshot my AR.

My friend who was in the military confirms this.


I heated mine in a furnace to 12000 degrees, then pulled it out and tossed it into a pit under a pile of dead NVA for 3 years. Then flooded that pit with salt water and concrete. 1 year later we dug it up and it was a little rusty on the op rod but otherwise it was like new. Shoot a .25 MOA 30 rnd group with it 0 malfunctions. My cousin smuggler that to Afghanistan with him and is using that WASR instead of his issue m4. He had 700 confirmed kills with it



WOW! What a pussy! You didn't even have sex with it after you heated it up? Fag.

PS: Your friend is gay too because 700 kills aint shit in the stan aginst a buncha goatfuckers.
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:21:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 7:22:10 AM EST by RustedAce]

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
I heated mine in a furnace to 12000 degrees, then pulled it out and tossed it into a pit under a pile of dead NVA for 3 years. Then flooded that pit with salt water and concrete. 1 year later we dug it up and it was a little rusty on the op rod but otherwise it was like new. Shoot a .25 MOA 30 rnd group with it 0 malfunctions. My cousin smuggler that to Afghanistan with him and is using that WASR instead of his issue m4. He had 700 confirmed kills with it



Did he kick start it to knock the rust off?

I heard this is the key.
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:22:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By Schlange:
Originally Posted By Bushmaster1984:
my tier 1 SF vietnam vet Uncle took the firing pin out of an his AK (he ditched his mickey mattel mouse rifle)


after removing the firing pin........the AK still fired!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Does your uncle sell beef jerky at gun shows?


yep


right alongside the beanie babies
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:23:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
AR-15s are more reliable than you think.

AK-47s are more accurate than you think.

The internet is great at making mountains out of molehills because people with little real world experience obsess over what they read online. So relatively minor differences are magnified greatly. I see this all the time at the gunstore I work at–– guys who will never take their guns out of the protective hard case until they are already at a shooting bench absolutely melting down over whether the AR-15 they want to buy is parkerized underneath the front sight base. Because "everyone knows" it must be a shitty gun if it isn't parkerized under the front sight base. Just like "everyone knows" AKs never jam and can't hit a man sized target beyond 200 yards.

Uh huh. Sure.
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:23:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By TallerThanYou:
Originally Posted By DocBull:
Originally Posted By TallerThanYou:
I would agree based off of functioning and the malfunctions I have witnessed in an m16, and how often they need to be "cleaned".

AR>AK on iron sights though......for me.....


If you are talking about issued M16 then you might be packing around something you grand daddy shot the barrel out of.

Those poor ass issue rifles have had the hell shot out of them, ran dry, and cleaned half assed their entire service life.. no wonder they fucking fail.


And an issued AK was treated better? Why wouldn't you compare the two in their military applications since they really get beat up and tested there.


I never said that...

It is like compaoring a glock to a 1911.. or a cat and dog. or bean soup with chili..

Different animals. think of it like pie v. a dry jerk... both get the job done but one works better when it is wet and cared for the other is just to get it done. . different but get the same goal done.
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:23:18 AM EST
How much cleaning do you think these little bastards do in the jungles of Africa?


Or this monkey? How much cleaning does a monkey do on its AK?
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:25:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By DocBull:or a cat and dog

Cats belong in a garbage can.
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:26:59 AM EST
The Kalashnikov has been an eminently reliable weapon from its inception.

The AR platform has made great strides, and is now a very reliable weapons system.

Comparing the two based upon how they were in the '60's is pointless. In this century, they're both reliable carbines, though the AR does require more careful maintenance.

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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:28:15 AM EST
He's right, it won't.

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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:30:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By RustedAce:

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
I heated mine in a furnace to 12000 degrees, then pulled it out and tossed it into a pit under a pile of dead NVA for 3 years. Then flooded that pit with salt water and concrete. 1 year later we dug it up and it was a little rusty on the op rod but otherwise it was like new. Shoot a .25 MOA 30 rnd group with it 0 malfunctions. My cousin smuggler that to Afghanistan with him and is using that WASR instead of his issue m4. He had 700 confirmed kills with it



Did he kick start it to knock the rust off?

I heard this is the key.


Rust? We use FROG lube, that thing will never rust.

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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:31:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By BustinCaps:
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By RustedAce:

Originally Posted By BustinCaps:
Originally Posted By RustedAce:
Yep.

AKs are the most reliable firearms ever. Ever.


I poured marbles into my action and it still shot .001 MOA.



I pounded on my barrel with a sledge hammer for two hours and it still outshot my AR.

My friend who was in the military confirms this.


I heated mine in a furnace to 12000 degrees, then pulled it out and tossed it into a pit under a pile of dead NVA for 3 years. Then flooded that pit with salt water and concrete. 1 year later we dug it up and it was a little rusty on the op rod but otherwise it was like new. Shoot a .25 MOA 30 rnd group with it 0 malfunctions. My cousin smuggler that to Afghanistan with him and is using that WASR instead of his issue m4. He had 700 confirmed kills with it



WOW! What a pussy! You didn't even have sex with it after you heated it up? Fag.

PS: Your friend is gay too because 700 kills aint shit in the stan aginst a buncha goatfuckers.


Lighten up dude, he has only been there 2 weeks.

Am I leaking?
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:33:45 AM EST
No dumpster.jpg yet?

ARFCOM I am disappoint.

Black Rifle Aficionado
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:34:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 7:36:54 AM EST by BlackRifle76]
I have done tests on all my AR's, basically shooting as much cheap ass Wolf or other brand of steel cased Russian ammo without cleaning my AR's. They all end up failing to feed at some point due to the lack of lube and the dirtiness of the steel cased ammo.

Even my AR that has a Spikes Nickel Boron bolt carrier group will still fail to feed when subjected to the above conditions.

None of my AK's have ever had this problem. They keep running no matter what.

I like the AR platform better, but it does require more cleaning and lubrication.

I've always wondered why Wolf is so damn dirty???
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State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be
infringed.
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:35:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By RustedAce:
Yep.

AKs are the most reliable firearms ever. Ever.


I am now suspicious.


Programmer & Zombie Killer Extraordinaire
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:36:53 AM EST
Wal-Mart, you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

"Cry 'Havoc', and let slip the hogs of war" - Archer
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:37:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bushmaster1984:
Originally Posted By Schlange:
Originally Posted By Bushmaster1984:
my tier 1 SF vietnam vet Uncle took the firing pin out of an his AK (he ditched his mickey mattel mouse rifle)


after removing the firing pin........the AK still fired!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Does your uncle sell beef jerky at gun shows?


yep


right alongside the beanie babies


I knew it!
He was a Force Ranger SEAL!
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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:37:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 7:38:48 AM EST by 110]
Should'nt we really be doing ACR vs SCAR now? 6.8 vs .300 blackout? .40 vs .357sig? XDM vs M&P? Tavor vs AUG?

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Link Posted: 11/22/2012 7:38:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 7:40:50 AM EST by BustinCaps]
Here is the final authority on this matter:


"Those embassy attacks? I didn't do that. Someone else made that happen!" ~BHO
"Fuck, it's like my brain has blueballs. I can't stand this shit." t-money 11/6/12
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