Is the AK really as reliable as some people claim? - Page 3

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is the AK really as reliable as some people claim? (Page 3 of 5)

Posted: 11/22/2012 11:04:44 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I would agree based off of functioning and the malfunctions I have witnessed in an m16, and how often they need to be "cleaned".

AR>AK on iron sights though......for me.....

If you are talking about issued M16 then you might be packing around something you grand daddy shot the barrel out of.

Those poor ass issue rifles have had the hell shot out of them, ran dry, and cleaned half assed their entire service life.. no wonder they fucking fail.

No military experience, but isn't that what matters? Long lasting and reliable in poor conditions? The simpler the cleaning the better? Just about any weapon will function fine when shooting 80 rounds from a bench at the range before going home to a clean safe.

I've never had functioning problems with those old, beat up rifles. The ones I have seen are when people believed stupid urban legends about reliability and did things that actually harmed the reliability of the rifle - like using brake cleaner to remove all lube in the pursuit of the perfect cleanliness the rifle needs to function, etc.

Posted: 11/22/2012 11:04:48 AM EDT

[#2]

I have seen enough Iraq carried AKs fail in usage when I was an adviser to say they do fail and at a rate close to M16 rates.

Posted: 11/22/2012 11:08:22 AM EDT

[#3]

IMI Galil 7.62 Nato are the tits.

Posted: 11/22/2012 11:25:44 AM EDT

[#4]

ive put parts together to assemble all of my ARs... few passes with a file here and there and bending a spring slightly is about all ive ever done to them....
i went after a bag-o-parts with a grinder, hammer, torch, 12ton press and mig welder to build my AK

i dunno what that says about either... i love them both

Posted: 11/22/2012 11:26:39 AM EDT

[#5]

I used to believe all the hype about AK reliability until I started shooting them in high-volume.

The Romanian AKM's and civvy WASR's have always failed as a rule for me. My first SPENDEX with Romak AKMs resulted in at least 3 out of 4 of them breaking, making them deadlined by US standards. We blasted 11,500 rounds through 8 guns in 4 hours. The East German ones were the only ones to run well through that iteration, while 3/4 Romaks went tits up to to self-inflicted damage.

As I continue to participate in and conduct high-volume shooting courses, I continually see malfunctions from various European-made AK's.

The only AK variants I have yet to see malf are the Valmet Rk62 and Sako Rk92/95, but they are running brass-cased Sako, high quality ammunition made in Finland.

A well-built AR runs more reliably than all the other AK variants that I have shot since 1988, except for the Finnish guns, which suck to carry, have AK ergos, and limited optics mounting solutions.

Another thing that might be of a surprise to most is that AR's run better in extreme cold weather, like -27C with high humidity. I think a lot of it has to do with the shoddy manufacturing standards of the AK, hard primers, and shifting dimensional uniformity in extreme cold, whereas the AR has very tight dimensional uniformity.

AK's also have a significantly shorter service life compared to AR's. They were never meant to last the tests of high volume shooting in a professional army that actually shoots its weapons all the time, but are more of a cheap solution to equipping peasants and savages in fecal-infested holes in Asia, Africa, & the Middle East. They will last for a few thousand rounds before they start losing their dimensional requirements for reliable operation, especially when you look at the rivets, trigger mechanism, and operating parts.

Posted: 11/22/2012 11:30:01 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I would agree based off of functioning and the malfunctions I have witnessed in an m16, and how often they need to be "cleaned".

AR>AK on iron sights though......for me.....

If you are talking about issued M16 then you might be packing around something you grand daddy shot the barrel out of.

Those poor ass issue rifles have had the hell shot out of them, ran dry, and cleaned half assed their entire service life.. no wonder they fucking fail.

No military experience, but isn't that what matters? Long lasting and reliable in poor conditions? The simpler the cleaning the better? Just about any weapon will function fine when shooting 80 rounds from a bench at the range before going home to a clean safe.

80 rounds off of a bench, my ass...

Here is my M16A4 from 2005/2006.

––It survived multiple rain storms covered in mud
––Ii survived multiple dust storms
––It was regularly covered in sand when I laid it next to me to man crew-serve weapons
––It has fired multiple thousands of rounds in both training and combat
––IT HAS NEVER JAMMED.

Posted: 11/22/2012 11:46:51 AM EDT

[#7]

No machine could be as reliable as some people claim either of these rifles are.

Neither are as unreliable as the bullshitters which threads like these attract the way shit attracts flies.

Use your head for something other than a hat rack.: Clean the weapon after firing it. Lubricate the weapon after cleaning it. It will run more reliably and last longer that way.

Posted: 11/22/2012 11:51:23 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I would agree based off of functioning and the malfunctions I have witnessed in an m16, and how often they need to be "cleaned".

AR>AK on iron sights though......for me.....

If you are talking about issued M16 then you might be packing around something you grand daddy shot the barrel out of.

Those poor ass issue rifles have had the hell shot out of them, ran dry, and cleaned half assed their entire service life.. no wonder they fucking fail.

No military experience, but isn't that what matters? Long lasting and reliable in poor conditions? The simpler the cleaning the better? Just about any weapon will function fine when shooting 80 rounds from a bench at the range before going home to a clean safe.

80 rounds off of a bench, my ass...

Here is my M16A4 from 2005/2006.

––It survived multiple rain storms covered in mud
––Ii survived multiple dust storms
––It was regularly covered in sand when I laid it next to me to man crew-serve weapons
––It has fired multiple thousands of rounds in both training and combat
––IT HAS NEVER JAMMED.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i172/schkoot/M16A4.jpg

Yeah but what do you really know?

Posted: 11/22/2012 12:00:46 PM EDT

[#9]

All machines fail. The AK is a reliable gun, but not to the extent that some make it out to be. There is nothing mythical about the AK, and people use unscientific and biased standards by which to judge their reliability.

Posted: 11/22/2012 12:06:33 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Yeah but what do you really know?

Posted: 11/22/2012 12:08:44 PM EDT

[#11]

A buddy of mine had one.

He only had a stovepipe, failure to extract, or failure to eject once or twice in a magazine of 30 rounds.

My AR has horrible reliability, I get a failure like that all the time...When I'm shooting Tula crapammo. Otherwise I have to suffer through perfect reliability.

Posted: 11/22/2012 12:09:31 PM EDT

[#12]

If the AK is jerked from target to target while it is cycling it can jam, otherwise it is very reliable. The AR does not have this problem.

Posted: 11/22/2012 12:12:33 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
A buddy of mine had one.

He only had a stovepipe, failure to extract, or failure to eject once or twice in a magazine of 30 rounds.

My AR has horrible reliability, I get a failure like that all the time...When I'm shooting Tula crapammo. Otherwise I have to suffer through perfect reliability.

Tula goes through my ARs like shit through a rat.

My personal ARs barely ever jam either. Any stops I had were from weak hammer springs or REALLY old parts. I did start having some malfs after the rubber portion of my buffer cracked... But it did have like 15K rounds through it.

Posted: 11/22/2012 12:15:08 PM EDT

[#14]

I locked up my AK about an hour ago just from charging it, and yes, it's "made in Russia by Izmash."

Posted: 11/22/2012 12:16:02 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Yep.

AKs are the most reliable firearms ever. Ever.

I poured marbles into my action and it still shot .001 MOA.

My friend (an army man) filled his with JB Weld & put it in a barrel of hydrochloric acid for a week, ran it over with a Caterpillar in the mud then cleaned it off with sea water.

This is a 150 round group fired after that test at 200 yards offhand, unsupported, using Tula ammo. There were no failures of any kind during the test.
http://photos.imageevent.com/wyowhisper/rifles/websize/DSC_0012.jpg

God damn liar.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f25/complete-308-package-88583/

He stole my friends AK group pics and tried to pass them off as coming from a junky outdated bolt-craption rifle! For shame!

Posted: 11/22/2012 12:16:30 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
I locked up my AK about an hour ago just from charging it, and yes, it's "made in Russia by Izmash."

I learned that having an external spare tire is a great thing for an AK owner, It let me get more force into beating the charging handle back when it locked up.

Posted: 11/22/2012 12:28:45 PM EDT

[#17]

The AK can not physically fail.

Posted: 11/22/2012 12:29:59 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
The AK can not physically fail.

Just emotionally?

Posted: 11/22/2012 12:41:41 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The AK can not physically fail.

Just emotionally?

If you were thrown in a dumpster, you'd be sad too.

Posted: 11/22/2012 12:43:04 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The AK can not physically fail.

Just emotionally?

If you were thrown in a dumpster, you'd be sad too.

Dumpsters make AKs more confident & reliable.

Posted: 11/22/2012 12:46:49 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The AK can not physically fail.

Just emotionally?

Emo AKs cut themselves.

Posted: 11/22/2012 12:47:59 PM EDT

[#22]

I wanted the reliability of an AK, with the accuracy of an AR-15. So I just put some 5.56 in my AK and it fired fine. They're that good.

DISCLAIMER: DO NOT TRY THIS. IT WAS A JOKE.

Posted: 11/22/2012 12:49:42 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

DISCLAIMER: DO NOT TRY THIS. IT WAS A JOKE.

Yeah it has to be 7.62 NATO to work.

Posted: 11/22/2012 12:52:55 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
A buddy of mine had one.

He only had a stovepipe, failure to extract, or failure to eject once or twice in a magazine of 30 rounds.

My AR has horrible reliability, I get a failure like that all the time...When I'm shooting Tula crapammo. Otherwise I have to suffer through perfect reliability.

Tula goes through my ARs like shit through a rat.

My personal ARs barely ever jam either. Any stops I had were from weak hammer springs or REALLY old parts. I did start having some malfs after the rubber portion of my buffer cracked... But it did have like 15K rounds through it.

My problem was constant short stroking. I would fire, and the next time I pulled the trigger get a "click!". Pulling the charging handle ejected the spent case and loaded a new one, which would fire, then I'd get a "click!' with the next trigger pull.....For fifteen rounds, then I tossed the other five in a trash can with all the AKs.

That rifle is a 20"er, and ran flawlessly with Federal XM193 both immediately before and immediately after the Tula attempt.

Posted: 11/22/2012 12:54:09 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
This thread is full of and will continue to be full of disinformation.

This is a pathetic thread...
Those that don't know the difference between tolerances and clearances... Those thinking the reliability, in some way, affects accuracy...on and on. This thread is full of fail.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 11/22/2012 12:56:48 PM EDT

[#26]

Depends on who it's built by.
A well built AK will be as reliable as advertised. But I've seen AKs in the Middle East that jammed every other round. Hell the most of the Arab Armies hate their AKs, but they're cheap so they keep 'em.

Some people put way too much value on reliability. You're most likely not going to die in a firefight if you have to do immediate action or SPORTS.

Every REAL military teaches it's Soldiers to clean their rifles, no matter what rifle it is they carry. The Russians made damn sure that Ivan cleaned his AK. The only people that say the AK is great because you don't have to clean are it lazy or stupid.

I've seen the M4 extensively used in very dusty places in Kuwait and Iraq and it worked just about every time. All my jams were magazine related, once I found the bad magazine and got rid of it, I had no more problems.

Posted: 11/22/2012 12:59:52 PM EDT

[#27]

I cannot remember my last stoppage in an AR that was not caused by the ammo (usually blown out primers going into the FCG). I have let my M4 clone get stupid dirty without issue. That includes dust and what not from shooting prone. No idea on round count, but at least a couple thousand over a period of a few months (just shooting on most Friday nights). Again, no issues I can think of. Just lubed every once in a while.

Posted: 11/22/2012 1:14:38 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
We pounded 4000+ rounds through a $250 romanian AK. You could hold the failed to fire rounds in 1 hand. Definatly ammo related and not rifle related. The only maintainence performed was a hosing of WD 40 every 1000 rounds.

BTW the foregrip will smoke and smolder and the brass pin through it will burn your hands.

Other than that it was fun as hell

. A "Hosing of WD40" after each thousand rounds will keep an AR-15 firing until thebarrel melts, or you run out of ammo.

Posted: 11/22/2012 1:15:21 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
This thread is full of and will continue to be full of disinformation.

This is a pathetic thread...
Those that don't know the difference between tolerances and clearances... Those thinking the reliability, in some way, affects accuracy...on and on. This thread is full of fail.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

90% of the replies were sarcastic. I'd wager most people actually have a decent understanding of both weapon systems and are just tired of this question coming up.

Posted: 11/22/2012 1:22:55 PM EDT

[#30]

The correct answer is to get both, and to appreciate what each brings to the table.

Posted: 11/22/2012 1:23:52 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
The correct answer is to get both, and to appreciate what each brings to the table.

Like when the charging handle locks up for no apparent reason!

Posted: 11/22/2012 1:24:54 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
A buddy of mine had one.

He only had a stovepipe, failure to extract, or failure to eject once or twice in a magazine of 30 rounds.

My AR has horrible reliability, I get a failure like that all the time...When I'm shooting Tula crapammo. Otherwise I have to suffer through perfect reliability.

Tula goes through my ARs like shit through a rat.

My personal ARs barely ever jam either. Any stops I had were from weak hammer springs or REALLY old parts. I did start having some malfs after the rubber portion of my buffer cracked... But it did have like 15K rounds through it.

My problem was constant short stroking. I would fire, and the next time I pulled the trigger get a "click!". Pulling the charging handle ejected the spent case and loaded a new one, which would fire, then I'd get a "click!' with the next trigger pull.....For fifteen rounds, then I tossed the other five in a trash can with all the AKs.

That rifle is a 20"er, and ran flawlessly with Federal XM193 both immediately before and immediately after the Tula attempt.

Yeah, the one I run the Tula through is a 16" carbine gas system. It's "over gassed" for 5.56, so Tula .223 is perfect.

Posted: 11/22/2012 1:26:53 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The AK can not physically fail.

Just emotionally?

Emo AKs cut themselves.

Man, I

ed...................twice three times!!!!!

Posted: 11/22/2012 1:29:57 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

90% of the replies were sarcastic.

Incorrect.

Posted: 11/22/2012 1:30:57 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
90% of the replies were sarcastic.

Incorrect.

Oh, go eat some peeps and fondle your ak!

Posted: 11/22/2012 1:33:15 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:
90% of the replies were sarcastic.

Incorrect.

You need a Peepov AK.

Posted: 11/22/2012 1:39:28 PM EDT

[#37]

Perhaps this was more out of laziness than scientific yearning, but I ran my AR and AK without clearning over the course of a few days.

WASR 10/63:
somewhere between 500-600 rounds, I had a failure-to-feed, but easy enough to clear.

AR-15 16" carbine:
somewhere around the 800 round mark, I had a failure-to-feed, which was eaisly resolved with the forward assist; 95% of these rounds were suppressed.

Posted: 11/22/2012 1:45:59 PM EDT

[#38]

I've had more malfunctions with and AR, FAL, G3, etc. than I have with an AK, but unless a rifle is an utter piece of shit from the factory the number of failures is so small its not worth worrying about. I love AKs (look at the name), but whether a rifle has 2 failure every 10k rounds or 5 its not really that big of a deal. Over all the AR is better platform though for someone whos not an illiterate peasant with no access to cleaning kits or spare parts.

Posted: 11/22/2012 1:48:52 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I would agree based off of functioning and the malfunctions I have witnessed in an m16, and how often they need to be "cleaned".

AR>AK on iron sights though......for me.....

If you are talking about issued M16 then you might be packing around something you grand daddy shot the barrel out of.

Those poor ass issue rifles have had the hell shot out of them, ran dry, and cleaned half assed their entire service life.. no wonder they fucking fail.

No military experience, but isn't that what matters? Long lasting and reliable in poor conditions? The simpler the cleaning the better? Just about any weapon will function fine when shooting 80 rounds from a bench at the range before going home to a clean safe.

I've never had functioning problems with those old, beat up rifles. The ones I have seen are when people believed stupid urban legends about reliability and did things that actually harmed the reliability of the rifle - like using brake cleaner to remove all lube in the pursuit of the perfect cleanliness the rifle needs to function, etc.

...or people equating its performance with blanks to its performance with live ammo.

Posted: 11/22/2012 1:50:30 PM EDT

[#40]

Ford, is better than Chevy.

Posted: 11/22/2012 1:52:06 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Ford, is better than Chevy.

No, BMW is better than Trabant.

Posted: 11/22/2012 1:52:43 PM EDT

[#42]

Always had AR's that malfunctioned despite being clean as a whistle. Hence why I joined Team Ak and never looked back.

And none of my ak's have ever jammed.

Posted: 11/22/2012 1:53:17 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
I ain't never read a discussion like this b4

Posted: 11/22/2012 1:54:13 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I would agree based off of functioning and the malfunctions I have witnessed in an m16, and how often they need to be "cleaned".

AR>AK on iron sights though......for me.....

If you are talking about issued M16 then you might be packing around something you grand daddy shot the barrel out of.

Those poor ass issue rifles have had the hell shot out of them, ran dry, and cleaned half assed their entire service life.. no wonder they fucking fail.

No military experience, but isn't that what matters? Long lasting and reliable in poor conditions? The simpler the cleaning the better? Just about any weapon will function fine when shooting 80 rounds from a bench at the range before going home to a clean safe.

80 rounds off of a bench, my ass...

Here is my M16A4 from 2005/2006.

––It survived multiple rain storms covered in mud
––Ii survived multiple dust storms
––It was regularly covered in sand when I laid it next to me to man crew-serve weapons
––It has fired multiple thousands of rounds in both training and combat
––IT HAS NEVER JAMMED.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i172/schkoot/M16A4.jpg

Yeah but what do you really know?

obviously lying

Posted: 11/22/2012 1:54:43 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Always had AR's that malfunctioned despite being clean as a whistle. Hence why I joined Team Ak and never looked back.

And none of my ak's have ever jammed.

Mabey you should have got some decent magazines.

Posted: 11/22/2012 1:57:33 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Sturdier magazine. Looser tolerances. Both says a lot towards reliability.

The increased taper in the 7.62x39 is also a factor worth mentioning. If my WASR is any indication though, and it probably is not, the AR platform is more reliable than the AK platform.

It does nothing for reliability. NOTHING. The taper also makes extraction MORE difficult. This is why all magnum revolvers use straight walled cases. Any taper will bind the cylinder.

You know Parker Ackley discovered blowing the taper out of the .250 Savage allowed for higher pressure in the Savage 99.

Posted: 11/22/2012 2:01:33 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Always had AR's that malfunctioned despite being clean as a whistle. Hence why I joined Team Ak and never looked back.

And none of my ak's have ever jammed.

I don't think ARs care about being clean nearly as much as they care about being wet. Much like most of the women I dated before my wife.

Posted: 11/22/2012 2:15:13 PM EDT

[#48]

The AR can be very good, but I don't think it will ever match the AK in terms of being beat the shit out of, not cared for, and just plain working.

Posted: 11/22/2012 2:16:49 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
I have some former military friends at work that claim the AR paltform will never be as reliable as the AK. What are your thoughts on this?

We have an M4, M16A1 and an M16A2 vs an AK47 full stock, AK47 under folder, AMD65 and an AK74.

All have had jams for one reason or another. The AMD65 had a catastrophic failure and is in the process of being rebuilt. All the guns have had several thousand rounds through them.

The M16 series is definitely the more accurate and pleasant to shoot with the exception of the AK74. The AK family is a brute force approach and quite rude to shoot on full auto. Again, the 74 being the exception.

I have no problem choosing any of the above guns for SHTF. They all work and all do their job quite well. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages.

Posted: 11/22/2012 2:19:32 PM EDT

[#50]

What happened to your AMD65?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is the AK really as reliable as some people claim? (Page 3 of 5)

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