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Malazan70
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Posted: 11/10/2012 2:16:59 AM
[Last Edit: 11/10/2012 2:25:23 AM by Malazan70]

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
I don't really know how to ask this question, since I'm not an articulate internet speaker

But here goes,


I'm not advocating anything with this question, I have my own ideas about what should happen and sharing them on the internet isn't one of them



I was reading a thread on another gun forum, and a lot of the folks there were saying things like...

"America has become Amerika"

"We are becoming Marxist, Communist, Socialist", every other ist

"America is dead"

"There is no saving our nation"...and so on and so on

If people really feel this way, why has there been no 2nd American Revolution, and I mean a REVOLUTION

When other Countries GOVS. get out of line, there is at the very least Mass Rioting, tear gas, Molotovs and the whole shebang. Look at Greece, Spain

Some, like the Arab countries, straight up throw their GOVS. out of power. I.E. Lybia, Egypt

If 1000's, 10000's, maybe 1000000's of people really feel like America is gone and there is no saving her. Why do they not act?


Why were the Founding Fathers so ready to get it on, but people nowadays just talk the talk.


Like I said, not advocating, just wondered what folks take on this would be.

Why are we so different from the rest of the world when it comes to this stuff? Why are we so different than our Founding Fathers
LuckyDucky
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Posted: 11/10/2012 2:20:38 AM
Did you see X-Factor last night?

Spartanatheart
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Posted: 11/10/2012 2:21:13 AM
I was 90% sure this was going to be a 007 thread.
I remember when I lost my mind. But it wasn't because I didn't know enough. I just knew too much....
I'm taking comfort in the fact that Jesus wasn't liked when he was alive either.
Malazan70
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Posted: 11/10/2012 2:21:50 AM
[Last Edit: 11/10/2012 2:22:35 AM by Malazan70]
Originally Posted By LuckyDucky:
Did you see X-Factor last night?




No, hey are you trying to distract me
Blinker_Fluid
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Posted: 11/10/2012 2:21:50 AM
Originally Posted By Spartanatheart:
I was 90% sure this was going to be a 007 thread.


Guilty.
DigDug
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Posted: 11/10/2012 2:22:44 AM
You been smoking the pot son?
"Life is a comedy for those who think... and a tragedy for those who feel" Horace Walpole

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Malazan70
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Posted: 11/10/2012 2:25:45 AM
LOL, I'll change the title
Sslous
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Posted: 11/10/2012 2:31:15 AM
Jeeezus the FBI is getting ballsy.
Malazan70
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Posted: 11/10/2012 2:33:06 AM
Seriously, no opinions on why Americans are lazy when it comes to politics?


This place is full of crazies, especially on a Friday night
LoneWolf30
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Posted: 11/10/2012 2:36:29 AM
"... all Experience hath shown, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed."

Codyboy
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Posted: 11/10/2012 2:37:22 AM
Maybe we are a little more civilized than those other places you mention. ?

Our society has been so dumbed down and afraid to act out for fear of the consequences.
Malazan70
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Posted: 11/10/2012 2:38:47 AM
[Last Edit: 11/10/2012 2:41:40 AM by Malazan70]
”...that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people the alter or to abolish it...”


Malazan70
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Posted: 11/10/2012 2:39:19 AM
Originally Posted By Codyboy:
Maybe we are a little more civilized than those other places you mention. ?

Our society has been so dumbed down and afraid to act out for fear of the consequences.




Civilized? Really?
a555
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Posted: 11/10/2012 2:40:39 AM
Originally Posted By LoneWolf30:
"... all Experience hath shown, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed."



...but when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism....
Malazan70
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Posted: 11/10/2012 2:42:02 AM
Originally Posted By a555:
Originally Posted By LoneWolf30:
"... all Experience hath shown, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed."



...but when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism....


Let me help ya


”But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.”

Chesh97
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Posted: 11/10/2012 2:42:55 AM
because those guys pledged thier lives, fortunes and sacred honor. The "men" of today won't sacrifice their Busch Light or NFL Sundays.
*** NRA Life Member***

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The feeling of an entire wetsuit up my asscrack? No thank you.
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Malazan70
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Posted: 11/10/2012 2:45:18 AM
I'm truly scared for our future, I do not want to become a NAZI Germany, or a Soviet Union, A Khmer Rouge Cambodia..etc
Prime
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Posted: 11/10/2012 2:48:58 AM
Originally Posted By Codyboy:
Maybe we are a little more civilized than those other places you mention. ?

Our society has been so dumbed down and afraid to act out for fear of the consequences.


Believe me, so are they.
The simple truth is it's just not that bad yet. As long as people have their bread and circuses we'll coast along just fine.

Oh, and everyone be polite and say hi to the FBI.



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We love our Sheep, we Dogs of war
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Malazan70
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Posted: 11/10/2012 2:50:44 AM
[Last Edit: 11/10/2012 2:52:49 AM by Malazan70]
Originally Posted By Prime:
Originally Posted By Codyboy:
Maybe we are a little more civilized than those other places you mention. ?

Our society has been so dumbed down and afraid to act out for fear of the consequences.


Believe me, so are they.
The simple truth is it's just not that bad yet. As long as people have their bread and circuses we'll coast along just fine.

Oh, and everyone be polite and say hi to the FBI.







Man, you really do have your tin foil on tight

Believe me, I'm already on the Red List, I've said enough dumb things over the phone and on the internet to put me at the front of the line
Tim_the_enchanter
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Posted: 11/10/2012 2:52:34 AM
[Last Edit: 11/10/2012 2:54:24 AM by Tim_the_enchanter]

Originally Posted By Malazan70:

Why were the Founding Fathers so ready to get it on, but people nowadays just talk the talk.



If you know colonial American history, you would know that our founding fathers weren't all that eager to "get it on". Grievances simmered for decades. One colony's grievances often went unnoticed by another colony.
Even as the war dragged on, the majority of colonists sat on the fence. Less than half the population of free white males actively supported the revolution. Recent estimates tell that about 20% remained openly loyal to England. Estimates from the period put the number at about 30%.


phideaux
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Posted: 11/10/2012 2:56:41 AM
it's because of the Idiocracy.......we're too busy "baitin"
nchapa
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Posted: 11/10/2012 3:07:58 AM
police state.
Saber7
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Posted: 11/10/2012 3:08:08 AM
Originally Posted By Prime:
Originally Posted By Codyboy:
Maybe we are a little more civilized than those other places you mention. ?

Our society has been so dumbed down and afraid to act out for fear of the consequences.


Believe me, so are they.
The simple truth is it's just not that bad yet. As long as people have their bread and circuses we'll coast along just fine.

Oh, and everyone be polite and say hi to the FBI.






FBI's to busy investigating adultry and shit right now.
Malazan70
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Posted: 11/10/2012 3:10:40 AM
Originally Posted By Prime:
Originally Posted By Codyboy:
Maybe we are a little more civilized than those other places you mention. ?

Our society has been so dumbed down and afraid to act out for fear of the consequences.


Believe me, so are they.
The simple truth is it's just not that bad yet. As long as people have their bread and circuses we'll coast along just fine.

Oh, and everyone be polite and say hi to the FBI.






That's what me and a buddy are always talking about at work, that most people won't fight until they are hungry

Thrasymachus
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Posted: 11/10/2012 3:25:47 AM
I'll bite. The founding fathers were strongly influenced by Locke's 2nd Treatise on Government, which argued that any abuse by a government is justification for revolt. Locke realized that there is a pragmatic problem with that principle, however, since that would mean that people would continually revolt, and it would make actually operating a government almost impossible. Locke realized abuses are going to happen, so Locke said that it is only after a long string of abuses that a revolution was justified, which is why the Declarations of Independence state, "But when a long train of abuses and usurpations..."

The founding fathers were placed in a situation where they believed that there was a long train of abuses, and felt they had few options to resolve those abuses. We are not in the same type of situation. There are abuses by the government, but few believe that amounts to the long string of abuses Locke and the founding fathers felt justified a revolution. There are also mechanisms by which the government is held in check, and abuses can be rectified.

People are pissed and are venting their frustrations with brash talk. There just isn't enough government abuse to justify anyone's desire to revolt, so they go to the internet to complain. Libya, Tunisia, Syria, etc are situations where there is real political repression, and systems that do not give people mechanisms to rectify government abuse.
Malazan70
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Posted: 11/10/2012 3:29:03 AM
So when America becomes a full on Police State, that's most likely when SWHTF
Thrasymachus
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Posted: 11/10/2012 3:37:23 AM
Originally Posted By Malazan70:
So when America becomes a full on Police State, that's most likely when SWHTF


There is a reason they call it a system of government, ie, there is system in place that mediates the desires and abuses of those who would abuse the population. The people who talk like they want a revolution are, in my opinion, paranoid and hold views of government and politics that have little grounding in reality. The US is nowhere near the police state that an actual dictatorship has. People just like to bitch and then construct a boogyman that is not there.
41magluva
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Posted: 11/10/2012 4:16:54 AM
Originally Posted By phideaux:
it's because of the Idiocracy.......we're too busy "baitin"


Go away!


















CBPO
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Posted: 11/10/2012 4:19:56 AM
Originally Posted By Malazan70:
Originally Posted By Prime:
Originally Posted By Codyboy:
Maybe we are a little more civilized than those other places you mention. ?

Our society has been so dumbed down and afraid to act out for fear of the consequences.


Believe me, so are they.
The simple truth is it's just not that bad yet. As long as people have their bread and circuses we'll coast along just fine.

Oh, and everyone be polite and say hi to the FBI.







Man, you really do have your tin foil on tight

Believe me, I'm already on the Red List, I've said enough dumb things over the phone and on the internet to put me at the front of the line




Oh, ok. He's good.... Wait... isn't that what the FBI would say!?
L.J.
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Posted: 11/10/2012 4:36:13 AM
Originally Posted By Saber7:
Originally Posted By Prime:
Originally Posted By Codyboy:
Maybe we are a little more civilized than those other places you mention. ?

Our society has been so dumbed down and afraid to act out for fear of the consequences.


Believe me, so are they.
The simple truth is it's just not that bad yet. As long as people have their bread and circuses we'll coast along just fine.

Oh, and everyone be polite and say hi to the FBI.






FBI's to busy investigating adultry and shit right now.


Don't be too sure.

Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.

John Adams, 1814
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Posted: 11/10/2012 4:39:37 AM
Originally Posted By Malazan70:
I'm truly scared for our future, I do not want to become a NAZI Germany, or a Soviet Union, A Khmer Rouge Cambodia..etc


As an individual, you don't want to become a political system and an entire country at once?
Why not? Is that even possible?
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shrikefan
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Posted: 11/10/2012 5:43:06 AM
Originally Posted By Thrasymachus:
I'll bite. The founding fathers were strongly influenced by Locke's 2nd Treatise on Government, which argued that any abuse by a government is justification for revolt. Locke realized that there is a pragmatic problem with that principle, however, since that would mean that people would continually revolt, and it would make actually operating a government almost impossible. Locke realized abuses are going to happen, so Locke said that it is only after a long string of abuses that a revolution was justified, which is why the Declarations of Independence state, "But when a long train of abuses and usurpations..."

The founding fathers were placed in a situation where they believed that there was a long train of abuses, and felt they had few options to resolve those abuses. We are not in the same type of situation. There are abuses by the government, but few believe that amounts to the long string of abuses Locke and the founding fathers felt justified a revolution. There are also mechanisms by which the government is held in check, and abuses can be rectified.

People are pissed and are venting their frustrations with brash talk. There just isn't enough government abuse to justify anyone's desire to revolt, so they go to the internet to complain. Libya, Tunisia, Syria, etc are situations where there is real political repression, and systems that do not give people mechanisms to rectify government abuse.



Originally Posted By Thrasymachus:
Originally Posted By Malazan70:
So when America becomes a full on Police State, that's most likely when SWHTF


There is a reason they call it a system of government, ie, there is system in place that mediates the desires and abuses of those who would abuse the population. The people who talk like they want a revolution are, in my opinion, paranoid and hold views of government and politics that have little grounding in reality. The US is nowhere near the police state that an actual dictatorship has. People just like to bitch and then construct a boogyman that is not there.


You do realize that that the original revolution was over taxation and confiscating our resources - at a lower rate than is currently happening.

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Posted: 11/10/2012 5:54:30 AM
Originally Posted By Malazan70:

Why were the Founding Fathers so ready to get it on, but people nowadays just talk the talk.


Because they weren't "so ready" for it. There wasn't this sweeping sentiment for a very long time in favor of Revolution.
Even at the height of support for the war, public sentiment was broken roughly into thirds; a third supported the conflict, a third didn't, and a third was neutral..and this was AFTER conflict had already broken out, and after the colonial propagandists had been able to sway public opinion for and the Crown through itsvarious mis-steps for years had convinced enough people that there was no alternative.
*post contains personal opinion only and should not be considered information released in an official capacity*

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haydendavid380
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Posted: 11/10/2012 6:16:01 AM
Laziness and no balls.
Originally Posted By Dehammer:
I get tired of hearing all the drama of childbirth from women. I regularly take burrito dumps that require a midwife and whiskey.
HenryReardon
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Posted: 11/10/2012 6:23:28 AM
[Last Edit: 11/10/2012 6:24:01 AM by HenryReardon]
Originally Posted By Malazan70:
Why were the Founding Fathers so ready to get it on, but people nowadays just talk the talk.


TC556guy is right about this one. Go read some history of the American Revolution. The Founding Fathers weren't so ready to get it on. Many years of frustration and negotiation were required before they concluded that relations with the king were hopeless, and that separation was the only answer.

We just haven't reached that point...yet. We may never reach it. We may not have the unity of purpose and of identity that the colonials had, and thus we may simply ebb into servitude.
“When a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, IT IS THEIR RIGHT, IT IS THEIR DUTY, TO THROW OFF SUCH GOVERNMENT...” -Declaration of Independence, 1776
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Posted: 11/10/2012 6:24:38 AM
[Last Edit: 11/10/2012 6:51:37 AM by scottedward58]
It took years for the founders to get public opinion on their side and even then only about half the people wanted to break away from the crown. People think they just signed the DoI and started shooting but there was a hell of a lot more to it than that. Look up the actions and the dates of those actions of the sons of liberty.


1764 Sugar and currency acts
1765 Stamp act led to SoL invading tax men's homes and destroying stamps, quartering act forced colonists to both quarter, supply troops.
1770 Boston massacre
December 16, 1773 Boston Tea Party
July 4, 1776 Declaration of Independence
1783 Treaty of Paris officially ends war

Those are just the highest of highlights, there were many other important things that a person should know about the revolution. There were battles that took place long before war was declared. It took decades really, can you imagine your average American now even remembering shit from 10-20 years ago let alone being pissed about it?
"I have a right to nothing which another has a right to take away." letter to Uriah Forrest, 1787, T. Jefferson "It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." Thomas Paine
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Posted: 11/10/2012 7:18:54 AM
Still the best country on planet Earth. Enjoy the ride, life is short.
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Posted: 11/10/2012 7:26:32 AM
Originally Posted By DigDug:
You been smoking the pot son?


Thrasymachus
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Posted: 11/10/2012 8:15:05 AM
[Last Edit: 11/10/2012 8:15:36 AM by Thrasymachus]
Originally Posted By shrikefan:

snip

You do realize that that the original revolution was over taxation and confiscating our resources - at a lower rate than is currently happening.



Of course I do, but that was merely the tip of a larger issue. Remember, its "taxation without representation" The founding father's complaint was not necessarily with taxes, but with the lack of representation in the British parliament so they could have their say on the taxes that were levied upon them. Saying that the founders were opposed to taxes, or that being taxed was the sole reason for revolution is inaccurate.
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Posted: 11/10/2012 8:23:31 AM
Originally Posted By Chesh97:
because those guys pledged thier lives, fortunes and sacred honor. The "men" of today won't sacrifice their Busch Light or NFL Sundays.


This is true.
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Posted: 11/10/2012 8:30:20 AM
There will be no revolution.

The Free Sh*t Army will stand firm with a government that gives them their handouts all the way to the FEMA Camps. Useless mouths need herding, you understand.
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Posted: 11/10/2012 9:09:58 AM
[Last Edit: 11/10/2012 9:11:01 AM by wayniac]
Originally Posted By Thrasymachus:
Originally Posted By shrikefan:

snip

You do realize that that the original revolution was over taxation and confiscating our resources - at a lower rate than is currently happening.



Of course I do, but that was merely the tip of a larger issue. Remember, its "taxation without representation" The founding father's complaint was not necessarily with taxes, but with the lack of representation in the British parliament so they could have their say on the taxes that were levied upon them. Saying that the founders were opposed to taxes, or that being taxed was the sole reason for revolution is inaccurate.


Exactly, now we have representatives in DC that are looking out for and acting in our best interests.


Shut up voices or I'll poke you with a Q-Tip again!
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Posted: 11/10/2012 9:18:33 AM
People don't revolt when they are fat and happy. Wait till the DOW crashes, the welfare stops, and the riots begin.
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Posted: 11/10/2012 9:21:03 AM
Originally Posted By Plattekill:
People don't revolt when they are fat and happy. Wait till the DOW crashes, the welfare stops, and the riots begin.


And Obama points the blame at anyone with money or the the rich and they cut our heads off
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Posted: 11/10/2012 9:21:10 AM
Originally Posted By Malazan70:
Seriously, no opinions on why Americans are lazy when it comes to politics?


This place is full of crazies, especially on a Friday night


Politics has been turned into the devil to speak about. You can't discuss it.

The old joke is the two guys talking, one guy starts telling the other about how he's fucking his wife in the ass last night and the other asks who he's going to vote for in the next election.

"Hey whoa!!! that's getting a little personal there!! No, as I was ramming her ass....."

Patriotism: being disappointed you can't shoot your political rivals. -- bikedamon
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Posted: 11/10/2012 9:23:37 AM
People here are still really comfortable. All needs are being met etc.
When life gives you lemons, squirt the f 'n juice back in life's eyes!" (c) -RayGunz2
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Posted: 11/10/2012 9:27:53 AM
A Revolution is and has been going on, A socialist/communist one. What you are looking for is a counter-revolution. Won't happen until the academic einsteins that perputrated the commie revolution recognize the error of their ways. If you look at history that will be about the time the mass killing starts, of academics mostly. LOL The Irony.

Petraus was sacrificed and stripped of his honor and credibility this week, he was a threat. It is a good example of whats to come.

Nothing new going on in this country. It has been done many times before in the 20th century elsewhere.

It is a typical communist revolution in stage 1.5.


Seriously.
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Posted: 11/10/2012 9:40:43 AM
Originally Posted By zhick:

Petraus was sacrificed and stripped of his honor and credibility this week, he was a threat. It is a good example of whats to come.
.


Eh? He did that to himself
*post contains personal opinion only and should not be considered information released in an official capacity*

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HenryReardon
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Posted: 11/10/2012 9:44:10 AM
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By zhick:

Petraus was sacrificed and stripped of his honor and credibility this week, he was a threat. It is a good example of whats to come.
.


Eh? He did that to himself


He facilitated his own removal. If the administration had wanted to keep him, they would have made the affair go away. He was sacrificed.
“When a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, IT IS THEIR RIGHT, IT IS THEIR DUTY, TO THROW OFF SUCH GOVERNMENT...” -Declaration of Independence, 1776
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Posted: 11/10/2012 10:29:00 AM
[Last Edit: 11/10/2012 10:29:22 AM by _DR]
Originally Posted By HenryReardon:
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By zhick:

Petraus was sacrificed and stripped of his honor and credibility this week, he was a threat. It is a good example of whats to come.
.


Eh? He did that to himself


He facilitated his own removal. If the administration had wanted to keep him, they would have made the affair go away. He was sacrificed.


How many are investigated by the FBI (Eric Holder's gestapo now) for an affair?


My guess is Petraeus was not playing ball with the cover-up crew and they needed leverage on him. So he one-upped them, went public and ejected before they could snare him. That's my theory.
Be polite. Be professional. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
SUPER_SIX_ONE
Victims, aren't we all?
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Posted: 11/10/2012 10:33:23 AM
Originally Posted By Drsalee:
Originally Posted By Saber7:
Originally Posted By Prime:
Originally Posted By Codyboy:
Maybe we are a little more civilized than those other places you mention. ?

Our society has been so dumbed down and afraid to act out for fear of the consequences.


Believe me, so are they.
The simple truth is it's just not that bad yet. As long as people have their bread and circuses we'll coast along just fine.

Oh, and everyone be polite and say hi to the FBI.






FBI's to busy investigating adultry and shit right now.


Don't be too sure.



The FBI/ATF is NEVER too busy for ARFcom, that I promise.
"I was always willing to be reasonable until I had to be unreasonable."
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