Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Log In

A valid email is required.
Password is required.
Site Notices
3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 4/6/2001 7:08:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2001 6:52:02 AM EDT by fight4yourrights]
As an outtake of [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=13253&page=3[/url]
What's the ratio of SC interpretations/new laws further restricting rights -vs- SC interpretations/new laws expanding rights? If we restrict rights by .005% more each year, how long until our rights are basically gone? Sure, mathmatically we never reach 0% left, we be get close enough where the point is academic, isn't it? How much Freedom do we have left in this country, compared to what the Founders established? 75%? 50%? 30%? Anyone care to peg a number?
View Quote
(please correct me where I am wrong) In 1780, a man could: 1. carry as much money as he wanted w/out fear of having it confiscated as drug money 2. pay for something with as much cash as he wanted, today we are subject to reporting limits 3. buy any drug, including cocaine and heroin w/o government approval, intervention, or laws 4. buy and sell another human - a slave (granted, a bad thing) 5. fill in his swamp w/o going to jail for a Wetlands violation 6. burn brush on his own property 7. built a house w/o permits or fees 8. start a business w/out Zoning Board approval [b]9. buy ANY state of the art weapon available 10. equip his ship with state of the art cannons [/b] 11. school his own children w/o fear of arrest or need for government approval 12. keep most of his wages - income tax wasn't allowed 13. make his own guns 14. make/buy explosives 15. challenge (legally?) a man to a duel to the death 16. Not have his property seized for alleged involvement in illegal activities 17. own a dog w/out permits, licenses and fees 18. discipline his own children 19. teach his children morals w/out the school undermining them So, how much Freedom do we have left today? Percentage or 1 to 10 scale, your pick.
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 7:29:20 PM EDT
I would say the amount of freedom one has depends on what level a person/group fits into the food chain. Some may even be inclined to add or subtract percentage points depending on a persons ethinic grouping, or where one lives. Kalifonia quickly comes to mind. Good or bad, that's just the way it is. It is not that simple to just be able to pin a number on this. Well, you can, but it would be hard to convince everyone as valid.
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 7:35:54 PM EDT
You forgot one: Go fishing and hunting without having to buy a licence!
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 7:38:45 PM EDT
F4YR, we're at 30% and still falling. This is not the same nation that it was 40 years ago. I 'm not particularly a conspppiracy theorist, but this New World Order crowd/Globalist/UN thing gains more credibility each day. Listen to gcnlive.com & grow more gray hair. Armed revolt? Truly a frightening thought, but maybe necessary........
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 8:20:50 PM EDT
I don't think we have 30%. Having a choice is not necessarily freedom. The only thing they don't tax is the air we breath. If they could figure out a way they would. The only things still free are things one man gives to another.
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 10:28:01 PM EDT
[>q] A FEW MORE FOR YOUR LIST!! Carry firearms across state lines. Take your rifle to school. Order powder kegs without HazMat. Cut down trees or dig wells on your own property. Build a house without permits, liscenses, zoning approvals, inspectors, or enviornmental impact studies. Keep animals on your property. Fire a gun in city limits. Spit on the sidewalk. And a lot more ---- here where I live we do have burn days, but designated by the local Governemt. AND I am not too sure the air isn't taxed indirectly with all the anti- pollution regulations and EPA laws.
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 6:43:34 AM EDT
[size=3]What rights does a modern man have that a 1780's man not have?[/size=3] 1. right to be a fudgepacker 2. right to be a Satan worshipper 3. right to marry a same sex partner 4. right to have medical insurance on your same sex partner
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 6:53:01 AM EDT
No more than 5%. Name one thing you do on a regular basis that is not subject to some regulating agency. Taking a shit is not one of them, BTW. They regulate the amount of water you can flush, and where you are allowed to do it.
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 6:56:17 AM EDT
Today we're F*cked over and in 20 years, we should be really F*cked over.
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 6:59:38 AM EDT
Good point Critter, you can't even bang your wife without worrying about laws and regulations. What a drag on our economy. All these laws, regulations, licenses, codes, Zoning, permits, approvals, inspections, agencies, departments, ARRRRGHHH!
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 7:10:17 AM EDT
Listen, we could go on forever about how the liberals want to control every aspect of our lives. But what are we gonna do about it? I say 25% of the freedom our forefathers had.
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 7:12:44 AM EDT
100%, if not more.
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 7:19:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights: Good point Critter, you can't even bang your wife without worrying about laws and regulations. What a drag on our economy. All these laws, regulations, licenses, codes, Zoning, permits, approvals, inspections, agencies, departments, ARRRRGHHH!
View Quote
Banging your wife! There's one thing that isn't taxed, licensed or otherwise regulated. You're a winner! Oh wait, that's if you only do it at home. Give me back that prize! [:)]
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 7:20:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cible: 100%, if not more.
View Quote
Who are you? And what are you doing here?
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 7:22:27 AM EDT
If the original George W. could get in a time machine and come to present day America, he would certainly believe that his original victory in the Revolution had been lost, and that a descendant of King George III was still on the English throne making life Hell on the Colonies and those 'damned Rebels'! Only a cruel and ruthless Despot could inflict the types of punishments described in this post. Certainly a freedom-loving people would never have voted such tyranny on themselves! Well, George W., guess again. Income tax was passed simply because it was explained to the people that [b]they[/b] would never be taxed, only those rich snotty folks. Talk about class warfare! Eric The(Overtaxed)Hun
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 7:23:07 AM EDT
37.739% left.
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 7:23:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2001 7:22:56 AM EDT by EdAvilaSr]
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 7:26:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By critter_FR:
Originally Posted By Cible: 100%, if not more.
View Quote
Who are you? And what are you doing here?
View Quote
I am the voice of reason. I am one of few here who will divorce the emotions from the facts and look at the big picture. Sometimes, I even consider both sides of an argument. Every once in a while, I'll see something from a different perspective or a different light. In 1780 you had the freedom to do what? Milk a friggin' cow? Plow a field? Freedom is a hollow term if there is nothing within it. Did they have the freedom to travel to France? Sure. How much did it cost? A week's wages? What were those? Did they have the freedom to shit in a toilet? A what? Did they have the freedom of using an ATM card so the highwaymen wouldn't releive them of all that money they could carry? Maybe we have 10% of the "original freedoms," but there's about 10,000% more stuff we can do. Look at the big picture.
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 7:27:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2001 7:29:54 AM EDT by fight4yourrights]
Cible - you think we have 100% or more freedom left? How? I've listed over a dozen freedoms our forefathers enjoyed that we don't. What freedoms do you think WE have have that they didn't? Sure, we have advanced and there is a lot of technology that exists today that didn't exist then, but I'm talking about FREEDOM, not bread and circuses. Cheap travel isn't Freedom.
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 7:27:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ken: Listen, we could go on forever about how the liberals want to control every aspect of our lives. But what are we gonna do about it? I say 25% of the freedom our forefathers had.
View Quote
We are going to start disobeying their silly laws.
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 7:37:19 AM EDT
Cheap travel, 500 channel TV and nice cars don't equal Freedom. Wake up Cible.
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 7:43:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cible:
Originally Posted By critter_FR:
Originally Posted By Cible: 100%, if not more.
View Quote
Who are you? And what are you doing here?
View Quote
I am the voice of reason.
View Quote
You are a proponent of socialism.
I am one of few here who will divorce the emotions from the facts and look at the big picture.
View Quote
You are the one who replace fact with fiction.
Sometimes, I even consider both sides of an argument. Every once in a while, I'll see something from a different perspective or a different light.
View Quote
That's honest at least.
In 1780 you had the freedom to do what? Milk a friggin' cow? Plow a field? Freedom is a hollow term if there is nothing within it. Did they have the freedom to travel to France? Sure. How much did it cost? A week's wages? What were those? Did they have the freedom to shit in a toilet? A what? Did they have the freedom of using an ATM card so the highwaymen wouldn't releive them of all that money they could carry?
View Quote
We had the freedom to do whatever was available to us to do. Times change, and things change, so what's your point?
Maybe we have 10% of the "original freedoms," but there's about 10,000% more stuff we can do. Look at the big picture.
View Quote
I am looking at the big picture. You do not have to trade freedom for things to do. You can have both. In fact without freedom, the rest of those "things" are worthless.
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 7:54:08 AM EDT
Cible wrote: Did they have the freedom of using an ATM card so the highwaymen wouldn't releive them of all that money they could carry?
View Quote
It's WORSE today. Get pulled over with $8,000 (your life savings) and the Government will seize all the money. Why have Highwaymen when the State can do the job! Get pulled over for alledgedly drinking and driving in New York and they seize your car. Even if you are found to be innocent, they KEEP YOUR CAR. Why have Highwaymen when the State can do the job!
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 8:18:40 AM EDT
Cible, if that is your definition of freedom, then I suggest you need to get a better dictionary.
I am the voice of reason.
View Quote
Yeah, whatever.
I am one of few here who will divorce the emotions from the facts and look at the big picture. Sometimes, I even consider both sides of an argument. Every once in a while, I'll see something from a different perspective or a different light.
View Quote
Yeah, right, you're the only one here that does that!
In 1780 you had the freedom to do what? Milk a friggin' cow? Plow a field? Freedom is a hollow term if there is nothing within it. Did they have the freedom to travel to France? Sure. How much did it cost? A week's wages? What were those? Did they have the freedom to shit in a toilet? A what?
View Quote
What you're confusing here is the FREEDOM to do these things and the OPPORTUNITY of actually doing them. The fact that you have the FREEDOM of speech does not mean that you will have the OPPORTUNITY to fill an auditorium with a crowd and force them to listen to you. When I leave my home and toilet in Plano to go to my farm and outhouse in the Panhandle, I don't give up the FREEDOM to relieve myself, just the OPPORTUNITY to relieve myself in a comfortable and convenient setting.
Did they have the freedom of using an ATM card so the highwaymen wouldn't releive them of all that money they could carry?
View Quote
Yeah, the money from the ATM that the 'highwaymen' of the IRS graciously let you keep.
Maybe we have 10% of the "original freedoms," but there's about 10,000% more stuff we can do. Look at the big picture.
View Quote
You're probably right that we only have about 10% of our original freedoms, but your wrong on the other. We might have the OPPORTUNITY to do about 10,000% more stuff than did our forefathers, but so what? Bill Gates has the opportunity to do about 10,000% more than I, but that doesn't keep me awake at night. Much. [b]Hey everyone! When the Revolution starts, someone keep an eye on Cible, O.K.?[/b] Eric The Hun
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 9:13:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2001 9:21:23 AM EDT by Cible]
Originally Posted By EricTheHun: < snip...>
[Cible said that:]I am one of few here who will divorce the emotions from the facts and look at the big picture. Sometimes, I even consider both sides of an argument. Every once in a while, I'll see something from a different perspective or a different light.
View Quote
Yeah, right, you're the only one here that does that!
View Quote
I said "one of the few", not "the only." Go back and reread.
In 1780 you had the freedom to do what? Milk a friggin' cow? Plow a field? Freedom is a hollow term if there is nothing within it. Did they have the freedom to travel to France? Sure. How much did it cost? A week's wages? What were those? Did they have the freedom to shit in a toilet? A what?
View Quote
What you're confusing here is the FREEDOM to do these things and the OPPORTUNITY of actually doing them. The fact that you have the FREEDOM of speech does not mean that you will have the OPPORTUNITY to fill an auditorium with a crowd and force them to listen to you. When I leave my home and toilet in Plano to go to my farm and outhouse in the Panhandle, I don't give up the FREEDOM to relieve myself, just the OPPORTUNITY to relieve myself in a comfortable and convenient setting.
View Quote
I'm not confusing anything. I stated that "freedom is a hollow term if there is nothing within it." I next listed examples of the differences between freedom and opportunity. Reread it. Do you see that now? Better that you understand later than never, I guess.
Maybe we have 10% of the "original freedoms," but there's about 10,000% more stuff we can do. Look at the big picture.
View Quote
You're probably right that we only have about 10% of our original freedoms, but your wrong on the other. We might have the OPPORTUNITY...
View Quote
View Quote
No shit, Sherlock? See above. Reread.
...to do about 10,000% more stuff than did our forefathers...
View Quote
View Quote
Hey everyone! When the Revolution starts, someone keep an eye on Cible, O.K.?
View Quote
What now, am I one of "THEM"? I'm different? Joe fucking McCarthy. The revolution? Shouldn't you be in the Republic of Texas celebrating Waco day today or some other TEOTWAWKI / SHTF / Invasion USA party with a bunch of wanna-be militiamen running around in cammies?
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 9:33:08 AM EDT
[size=3]
Cible wrote: Did they have the freedom of using an ATM card so the highwaymen wouldn't releive them of all that money they could carry?
View Quote
Cible - your logic falls on it's face. Ever heard of car jackings where the BG makes you drive to the ATM and get all the cash you can? So much for that "Freedom"
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 9:36:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2001 9:36:15 AM EDT by Cible]
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights: [size=3]
Cible wrote: Did they have the freedom of using an ATM card so the highwaymen wouldn't releive them of all that money they could carry?
View Quote
Cible - your logic falls on it's face. Ever heard of car jackings where the BG makes you drive to the ATM and get all the cash you can? So much for that "Freedom"
View Quote
[size=6]NO, F4YR, MY LOGIC JUST GOES OVER YOUR HEAD.[/size=6] To avoid the inevitable pissing match which is certain to ensue (for which I would be proportionately responsible), this is my last post on this topic. Thank you.
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 9:40:57 AM EDT
[size=6]Ta Ta for now, Cible.
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 10:05:33 AM EDT
Originally posted by Cible:
I said "one of the few", not "the only." Go back and reread
View Quote
Thanks, but it sounded like too much tripe the first time. 'Sarcasm'...look that up while you're at it. I though it an excellent reply to the 'Voice of Reason.'
I'm not confusing anything. I stated that "freedom is a hollow term if there is nothing within it." I next listed examples of the differences between freedom and opportunity. Reread it. Do you see that now? Better that you understand later than never, I guess.
View Quote
No, I don't see you even HINT at the difference between the two in that paragraph. Now in my post, I specifically pointed out the differences. Reread at your leisure.
What now, am I one of "THEM"? I'm different? Joe fucking McCarthy.
View Quote
I don't know if you're one of "THEM"? Do you think that you might be one of "THEM"? Do you feel like you might be one of "THEM"?
The revolution? Shouldn't you be in the Republic of Texas celebrating Waco day today or some other TEOTWAWKI / SHTF / Invasion USA party with a bunch of wanna-be militiamen running around in cammies?
View Quote
'Celebrating' is not a word I would use lightly in the same sentence with Waco, Sir, but you still have your freedom of speech, and I have the opportunity to not listen. Shouldn't you be getting ready for some 'May Day' Parade? Eric The Hun
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 12:49:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2001 12:51:27 PM EDT by Rogue_Star]
Cible, put these books on your to buy and read list: Freedom in Chains : The Rise of the State and the Demise of the Citizen -- by James Bovard; Paperback -- Our Price: $13.56 [url]https://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Chains-State-Demise-Citizen/dp/0312229674?tag=vglnk-c102-20[/url] Lost Rights : The Destruction of American Liberty -- by James Bovard; Paperback -- Our Price: $13.56 [url]http://www.amazon.com/dp/0312123337?tag=vglnk-c102-20[/url] I'm in the middle of Lost Rights now, I had to put it down though, got too mad and depressed. Hard to face that America is not what it is supposed to be. Most folks don't recognize it, and don't want to. You will weep for America. [>(]
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 1:26:11 PM EDT
Did they have the freedom to travel to France? Sure. How much did it cost? A week's wages?
View Quote
Well Cible I'm not sure if you've checked the price of travel lately but I doubt I could get to France on 2 weeks of wages, that is wages I'm allowed to keep after paying the extortion taxes. Personally I think that you entered the wrong forum here, the "Gore Lieberman" forum is down the hall and to your left. LMAO at your liberal pinko commie reply, thanks for the humor because you can't be serious!
Link Posted: 4/19/2001 7:47:07 PM EDT
LOGIC! Cible, I will take a match to your greasy a$$.
Top Top