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Qweevox
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Posted: 9/28/2012 7:30:37 AM
[Last Edit: 9/28/2012 7:37:21 AM by Qweevox]

Did Flaws in the Democratic System Cause the Financial Crisis?


"Contrary to popular belief, bankers and politicians are not to blame for the financial crisis. Rather, it’s systemic flaws in the very nature of democracy that allowed financial imbalances to take root."

To much government and central planning caused this crisis, so obviously we need more government and more central economic planning. Brilliant!!! Never mind the fact that it was the Federal Reserves policy to create a housing boom, helped by politicians who regulated the industry into absurdity, and government planning that fueled the fire. But hey, if we just have MORE it will work this time.

Translation: Create a political and economic elite to control the ignorant masses. They are to stupid to be free. We've had anything BUT a free market, but lets villainize it to save our own money, power, and prestige.

.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."---Thomas Jefferson
325moutguru
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Posted: 9/28/2012 7:38:00 AM
Well considering that we are not a democracy, this article is obviously full of fuck from the get go.
אלוהים יברך ישראל
buckshot_jim
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Posted: 9/28/2012 7:39:13 AM
Very many of us ARE to stupid to be free. By that I mean the entire welfare class has been turned into perpetual hungry mouths that will sell their souls for a handout.

Jim
Originally Posted By midmo:
Well, we ain't all here learning how to suture our own wounds and squeeze drinkable water from pond scum for the jollies of it all.
Fortibus Fortuna Favet
Nagewaza624
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Posted: 9/28/2012 7:44:37 AM
[Last Edit: 9/28/2012 7:45:17 AM by Nagewaza624]
communism, marxism, liberalism really is a disease.


Rotting the brain from the inside out.


"You sure know how to throw a dead cat into a party room!"
Matthew_Q
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Posted: 9/28/2012 7:46:34 AM
LOL. Everyone wants to blame the system. It's not the system, it's idiots that game it. Here is a long blog post chronicling what happened that caused the crisis. In one word, Democrats. Sprinkling in a lot of cronyism and conflicts of interest.

Blame Bush? Sure, but only for not stepping in with more prejudice and letting dumbocrats get their way, driving the economy into the ground.
Who is John Galt?
oulufinn
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Posted: 9/28/2012 7:46:38 AM
Congress mandating that banks give home loans to people who could never afford to pay them back was a large part of the problem. This is nearly totally ignored by both parties, of course.
Qweevox
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Posted: 9/28/2012 7:49:01 AM
[Last Edit: 9/28/2012 7:52:25 AM by Qweevox]

Originally Posted By 325moutguru:
Well considering that we are not a democracy, this article is obviously full of fuck from the get go.

There are no pure democracies, but there are Democratic Republics. But this idiot isn't wrangling over the idea of democracy, he's using it as more of a metaphor for individual freedom. He is advocating more economic central planning to control individual freedom.

Oh, and for anyone that agrees with this (not directed at you 325mountguru) fuck you. The fucking problem is the fact that our government is to damn big, and does to many things which it is not supposed to do. Its only legitimate role should be to protect individual freedom. Nothing else. No bailouts, no safety-nets, no human resource pension, healthcare, and benefits manager, and certainly no economic central planner. And while we're at it .gov needs to quit trying to be the loving parent, directing what we consume, how we manage our personal and private affairs, and how we pursue our happiness.

Damn it. Progressive Government is what's fucked up, and that goes for both versions, conservative and liberal. So to all of you who support the idea of progressive government I have two words. FUCK YOU.

That is all.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."---Thomas Jefferson
Lazarae
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Posted: 9/28/2012 7:58:39 AM
Ike, Kennedy, and Reagon, the rest of them are crap.

Fuckin banks.
I had a STROKE on 10/31/09. I can read, but I can't spell. Maybe my ability to spell will come back,

maybe it won't. I also mix up words in a sentence. If one of my post seems off, send me an IM.
Qweevox
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Posted: 9/28/2012 8:02:52 AM
[Last Edit: 9/28/2012 8:04:31 AM by Qweevox]

Originally Posted By oulufinn:
Congress mandating that banks give home loans to people who could never afford to pay them back was a large part of the problem. This is nearly totally ignored by both parties, of course.

BINGO

That and the fact that after the dot-com bubble burst, the Federal Reserve decided to inflate real estate to fill the hole, which turned out a absolutely brilliant idea. Then government backed mortgages, both parties expanding regulations to expand home ownership, and boom...welcome to 2008.

The crisis was caused by a great many things, but the free market and individual freedom wasn't one of them.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."---Thomas Jefferson
Curdmugeon45
Person of Interest.
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Posted: 9/28/2012 8:06:22 AM
Originally Posted By 325moutguru:
Well considering that we are not a democracy, this article is obviously full of fuck from the get go.



This. But not many people get that we're a Republic with democratic tendencies.

That's the fuck all root of the problem from the get go.
odiedodi
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Posted: 9/28/2012 8:10:21 AM
[Last Edit: 9/28/2012 8:14:22 AM by odiedodi]


Writes for CNBC.com Dutchie. Former United Nations Correspondent. Into macroeconomics and (beyond) BRICS. Views are my own.

London



Evidently you're not that into macroeconomics, becuase chapter 2 of both introductory micro and macroeconomics explains why central planning is a terrible fucking idea.


Wait I found the problem!

Liza Jansen's Education

Universiteit van Amsterdam

Bachelor of Arts, History






So not only did she not study economics, she didn't study journalism either.



Qweevox
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Posted: 9/28/2012 8:14:39 AM

Originally Posted By Curdmugeon45:
Originally Posted By 325moutguru:
Well considering that we are not a democracy, this article is obviously full of fuck from the get go.



This. But not many people get that we're a Republic with democratic tendencies.

That's the fuck all root of the problem from the get go.

A Republic and Democracy aren't mutually exclusive. We are a democratic republic. Why...

Simple, when the country was founded it had ONE objective, protect individual liberty. To the founding fathers, individual liberty was so important that it must be protected even from the majority. They created a very limited government and a excellent constitution designed to LIMIT IT.

Then we screwed it up.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."---Thomas Jefferson
searchin4shacks
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Posted: 9/28/2012 8:30:56 AM
I will paraphrase a very famous quote " we have given you a democratic republic, it's now up to you to keep it." The founding fathers knew human nature would be the major threat to the government they put together. Boy were they right!!!!
kaos
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Posted: 9/28/2012 8:54:49 AM

Originally Posted By 325moutguru:
Well considering that we are not a democracy, this article is obviously full of fuck from the get go.
Like any of the viewers of CNCB would know that.

Deej86: "Piss off."
Mazeman: "I don't let my daughter watch the Smurfs because she's such a whore."
WildSideFL
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Posted: 9/28/2012 8:58:30 AM
Originally Posted By Qweevox:

Originally Posted By oulufinn:
Congress mandating that banks give home loans to people who could never afford to pay them back was a large part of the problem. This is nearly totally ignored by both parties, of course.

BINGO

That and the fact that after the dot-com bubble burst, the Federal Reserve decided to inflate real estate to fill the hole, which turned out a absolutely brilliant idea. Then government backed mortgages, both parties expanding regulations to expand home ownership, and boom...welcome to 2008.

The crisis was caused by a great many things, but the free market and individual freedom wasn't one of them.


And now QE 1 - Infinity is inflating the secondary markets to fill the TARP hole. I guess we will have to see what that creates except we know that when the Fed has to sell off those assets, it will be an even larger hole to fill. Collapse is nearly unavoidable at this point. They are hoping that the usual inflow of money into the market will allow them to slowly sell off those assets, the fact that we are on #3 and counting should suggest otherwise. The only thing we can hope for is that the other world currencies collapse first so we can clean up for cheap and have that bandaid ripped off. There is no "free market" in any of this.
arowneragain
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Posted: 9/28/2012 9:02:09 AM
Originally Posted By Qweevox:

Originally Posted By Curdmugeon45:
Originally Posted By 325moutguru:
Well considering that we are not a democracy, this article is obviously full of fuck from the get go.



This. But not many people get that we're a Republic with democratic tendencies.

That's the fuck all root of the problem from the get go.

A Republic and Democracy aren't mutually exclusive. We are a democratic republic. Why...

Simple, when the country was founded it had ONE objective, protect individual liberty. To the founding fathers, individual liberty was so important that it must be protected even from the majority. They created a very limited government and a excellent constitution designed to LIMIT IT.

Then we screwed it up.


Reality is, a democratic republic is only a temporary republic. Our time appears to be up, as the majority of voters on this site are supporting a socialist. :(
...But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay...All my familiars watched for my halting...But the LORD is with me as a mighty terrible one...

Jeremiah 20 9-11
Bohr_Adam
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Posted: 9/28/2012 9:06:14 AM
Originally Posted By searchin4shacks:
I will paraphrase a very famous quote " we have given you a democratic republic, it's now up to you to keep it." The founding fathers knew human nature would be the major threat to the government they put together. Boy were they right!!!!


In Franklin's time, "Democracy" was not what they were after, nor was it what they built. The word / concept really only seems to have started becoming popular as an ideal later, around the time of Andrew Jackson's presidency and Tocqueville's book.
"idiots like jesus are why we have so many stupid gun laws"
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Qweevox
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Posted: 9/28/2012 10:56:53 AM

Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:
Originally Posted By searchin4shacks:
I will paraphrase a very famous quote " we have given you a democratic republic, it's now up to you to keep it." The founding fathers knew human nature would be the major threat to the government they put together. Boy were they right!!!!


In Franklin's time, "Democracy" was not what they were after, nor was it what they built. The word / concept really only seems to have started becoming popular as an ideal later, around the time of Andrew Jackson's presidency and Tocqueville's book.

Pure democracy is mob rule, or tyranny of the majority. The United States was founded on the simple and clear principal that men are born free, with a right to live, and a right to pursue their own happiness. EVERYTHING the founding fathers put in place was design to protect individual liberty. Protect INDIVIDUAL liberty from tyranny in all its forms, tyranny of kings, dictators, ruling class, committees, politicians, and the mob. Our government wasn't supposed to address everything in ones life. It was designed simply to provide freedom. Not provide a committees idea of "healthy" food, water, secure pension, benefits, safety-nets, backstops, central planning, a fractional banking system, or system that endeavors to make laws, rules, and regulations to protect people from themselves and the consequences of their own actions, and it certainly was not to provide all of the this to people of other nations through interventionist foreign policy and nation building.

The Great American Experiment was to build a nation with limited government constrained by a constitution with one goal, and one goal only, allow individuals to be finally free. Sadly it seems to have failed, it seems you can't limit government to this single and pure objective, people will always screw it up. All of our major problems are a direct result of abandoning this great experiment. It's over, and "we the people" killed it though our direct action or the omission of direct action to defend it. Little by little we bleed it out.

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."---Thomas Jefferson
Qweevox
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Posted: 9/28/2012 10:59:26 AM

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Originally Posted By Qweevox:

Originally Posted By Curdmugeon45:
Originally Posted By 325moutguru:
Well considering that we are not a democracy, this article is obviously full of fuck from the get go.



This. But not many people get that we're a Republic with democratic tendencies.

That's the fuck all root of the problem from the get go.

A Republic and Democracy aren't mutually exclusive. We are a democratic republic. Why...

Simple, when the country was founded it had ONE objective, protect individual liberty. To the founding fathers, individual liberty was so important that it must be protected even from the majority. They created a very limited government and a excellent constitution designed to LIMIT IT.

Then we screwed it up.


Reality is, a democratic republic is only a temporary republic. Our time appears to be up, as the majority of voters on this site are supporting a socialist. :(

Sadly it seems to always fail. The smallest government history has ever seen was successful because of its freedom, and because of this success it grew the largest government history has ever seen. Maybe this is the way of things. Hell, maybe the anarchist are right.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."---Thomas Jefferson
Makarov
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Posted: 9/28/2012 10:59:39 AM
[Last Edit: 9/28/2012 11:00:17 AM by Makarov]
No, Barney Frank and .gov meddling in the free market in the name of "Social Justice" caused the financial crisis More of the same is only making things worse

How is that "Free Healthcare" working out for everybody
RRD3
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Posted: 9/28/2012 11:06:59 AM
What we need are more Czars to run everything, yea... that'll work
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Fatbert
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Posted: 9/28/2012 11:08:13 AM
[Last Edit: 9/28/2012 11:08:47 AM by Fatbert]




She's right. Almost everyone wants free shit without paying for it.

The reality is that blaming our elected officials for the state of our country is like blaming a thermometer for giving you a fever.
Iustitia est constans et perpetua voluntas ius suum cuique tribuens.
cosmos556
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Posted: 9/28/2012 11:32:49 AM
The facts, while interesting, are generally irrelevant.
Qweevox
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Posted: 9/28/2012 1:13:27 PM

Originally Posted By RRD3:
What we need are more Czars to run everything, yea... that'll work

LOL +1

Yeah, central planning and czars work so well. I like turning it all over to really smart, wise, and benevolent people because they are our Einstein-Angels of our better nature. It works so well.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."---Thomas Jefferson
Partisan
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Posted: 9/28/2012 1:18:45 PM
[Last Edit: 9/28/2012 1:20:18 PM by Partisan]
[typical stupid leftist] Where is MY free shit. If there isn't enough money to give me free shit –– just take more from some guy who worked for it so I can have more free shit. [/typical stupid leftist]
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Posted: 9/28/2012 1:20:30 PM
We tried managing the free market and the free market didn't work.
SF1058
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Posted: 9/28/2012 1:25:31 PM
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
Very many of us ARE to stupid to be free. By that I mean the entire welfare class has been turned into perpetual hungry mouths that will sell their souls for a handout.

Jim



Oh, the irony...







Qweevox
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Posted: 9/28/2012 1:28:31 PM
[Last Edit: 9/28/2012 1:30:06 PM by Qweevox]

Originally Posted By Angelshare1:
We tried managing the free market and the free market didn't work.

Obviously

HEY! I've got an idea! Lets have another helping of .Gov planning and control. That will make it all right.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."---Thomas Jefferson
Qweevox
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Posted: 9/28/2012 1:33:20 PM

Originally Posted By SF1058:
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
Very many of us ARE to stupid to be free. By that I mean the entire welfare class has been turned into perpetual hungry mouths that will sell their souls for a handout.

Jim



Oh, the irony...








Thay thunk we is it who needs to be controlled and taxed, but them is who really needs it...hale yeh!
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."---Thomas Jefferson
JuniorJr
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Posted: 9/28/2012 1:33:32 PM
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
Very many of us ARE to stupid to be free. By that I mean the entire welfare class has been turned into perpetual hungry mouths that will sell their souls for a handout.

Jim


Many, if not most, in the welfare class are not perpetual hungry mouths, they are overfed greedy mouths. And they will not sell what passes for their souls for a handout, they expect the handout[s] to be given to them for free, on their terms.



stevelish
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Posted: 9/28/2012 1:43:34 PM
You all can rant and rave all you want, but we get the government we deserve. You all have a good handle on what went down and why, and how to solve the problem from a theoretical standpoint. REALISTICALLY, however, we are doomed and were from the beginning. When you can vote to receive the fruits of anothers labor, it is just a matter of time before the republic falls. Too much envy, and too many elected officials who manipulate the most basic of human emotions to benefit themselves at the expense of others.

This ends my happy thoughts for the day......
Qweevox
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Posted: 9/28/2012 2:40:40 PM

Originally Posted By stevelish:
You all can rant and rave all you want, but we get the government we deserve. You all have a good handle on what went down and why, and how to solve the problem from a theoretical standpoint. REALISTICALLY, however, we are doomed and were from the beginning. When you can vote to receive the fruits of anothers labor, it is just a matter of time before the republic falls. Too much envy, and too many elected officials who manipulate the most basic of human emotions to benefit themselves at the expense of others.

This ends my happy thoughts for the day......

You have a point.

But on the road to collapse pointing out the signposts is really all we have.

NOW that's a happy thought.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."---Thomas Jefferson
Alien
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Posted: 9/28/2012 2:43:59 PM
Originally Posted By odiedodi:
https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/1868145032/DSC_0919E_reasonably_small.jpg

Writes for CNBC.com Dutchie. Former United Nations Correspondent. Into macroeconomics and (beyond) BRICS. Views are my own.

London



Evidently you're not that into macroeconomics, becuase chapter 2 of both introductory micro and macroeconomics explains why central planning is a terrible fucking idea.


Wait I found the problem!

Liza Jansen's Education

Universiteit van Amsterdam

Bachelor of Arts, History






So not only did she not study economics, she didn't study journalism either.





Please tell me what you had for breakfast.