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Lost Texan
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Posted: 9/14/2012 6:27:09 PM EST
If someone were to sever the aorta how long before the bleed out? Pass out? What is the pain level? What if it is only a partial cut, does it matter given the blood pressure?
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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 6:29:10 PM EST
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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 6:29:22 PM EST
Tearing pain sensation, very quickly stopping as you bleed out.
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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 6:32:56 PM EST
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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 6:33:22 PM EST
Aorta? Seconds...

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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 6:36:31 PM EST
You probably won't make it unless you happen to be standing in a good ER when the tear occurs... and you might not make it anyway.
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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 6:36:52 PM EST
If you are asking because you cut your shit, you are too dead to read the first reply.
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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 6:37:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By jj01:
If someone were to sever the aorta how long before the bleed out? Pass out? What is the pain level? What if it is only a partial cut, does it matter given the blood pressure?


It depends.

As a med student, a surgeon removing a cancerous kidney said, "Watch this." He then proceeded to pinch the renal artery between his fingers and then he severed cleanly. He let go of it with his fingers about 30 seconds later and there was barely a drop coming out. Of course he tied it off, but he wanted to demonstrate how a completely severed artery will go into vasospasm to the point it will cut off all blood flow. One of the surgeons I shadowed said he had a patient stabbed in the abdomen and the abdominal portion of the aortic artery had undergone similar vasospasm to the point that he was able to save the young man's life.

If an artery is instead "peppered" with shrapnel or struck by a bullet and only partially cut, then it will continue to bleed until about 50% of the blood volume is lost and you go into cardiovascular collapse. How quickly that happens depends on the size of the artery. With the aorta it would likely take a couple of minutes. One of the cadavers I dissected on had a ruptured abdominal aortic aneurysm. Tons of blood in the abdomen.
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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 6:40:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2012 7:02:56 PM EST by lilMAC25]
C4 nailed it. Depends.


I've seen a guy with his aorta sheared off in a car accident. Lived. We got him on pump and saves his life

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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 6:40:29 PM EST
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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 6:44:31 PM EST
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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 6:48:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2012 6:59:46 PM EST by jsnappa]
I've taken care of hundreds of aortic dissections and a couple transected aortas that survived w/ surgery.
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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 6:50:18 PM EST
Completely dependent on type and location. Dissection vs rupture. Chronic vs acute vs traumatic. Repairing a rupture is like a having sore cock, you just can't beat it.

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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 6:50:58 PM EST
My dad's best friend died from a torn aorta. Car collision, took the steering column in the chest (no airbag, no seatbelt). He was walking around when the ambulance arrived about five minutes later. Woozy. Bleeding internally, didn't know it. Said he felt warm; his chest cavity was filling with blood. He died in the ambulance. Lived maybe twenty minutes after the collision.

Worst part was his wife got a call from the medics, who said he was fine but they were taking him in for X-rays on his ribs. She shows up at the hospital to pick him up and he was gone.

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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 6:57:47 PM EST
A guy crashed a motorcycle in front of my buddies house. He went out to help, and the guy got up and seemed fine, asked for help picking up his bike. He walked around for a few minutes and then dropped dead from a severed aorta. EMT's showed up just as he dropped. They said if he would have landed in the ER when he fell of the bike he still wouldn't have had a chance.
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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 7:00:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By Mojo_Jojo:
You probably won't make it unless you happen to be standing in a good ER when the tear occurs... and you might not make it anyway.


When I worked private ambulance, we took home two guys who survived them within a week of each other. That was quite a surprise.
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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 7:02:18 PM EST
Motorcycle riders, aircraft crash victims and front seat passengers.

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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 7:08:13 PM EST
Awesome video!

Originally Posted By jsnappa:
I've taken care of hundreds of aortic dissections and a couple transected aortas that survived w/ surgery.
Dr. Tom Martin in action (graphic): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWRRNNDeIo



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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 7:43:29 PM EST
relevent to this thread, Dr Gunther von Hagens disects real bodies for educational purposes here in this clip he cuts the femoral artery of a real body to show how fast one can bleed out from that type of injury. Also many other tramatic injuries. Great clips if you can watch please do. You will Learn something.

the series is 3 parts first part is 48 minutes all are well worth the watch.

the series is on youtube not going to give a link due to nudity in the video including swinging dick and female parts
if you search "Autopsy Emergency Room: Minutes From Death" on youtube it should come up.

WELL WORTH THE WATCH. Covers trama injuries and ways to address the injuries.

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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 7:46:03 PM EST
OP, is this thread really hypothetical, or are you contemplating a trip to the ER now?

If the latter, please go now.


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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 7:46:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By ZW17:
Pass out. 5-10sec from your blood pressure plummeting.

Bleed out and die. One minute.



Bye.. You could be in the emergency room with a trauma team standing by, and you still got about a 2% chance...
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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 7:52:22 PM EST
op a femoral artery will take about 3min 15 sec to pump out 3 LITERS of blood. according to Dr Gunther Hagens experiment.

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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 7:55:50 PM EST
put it this way if someone shot you in the artery on a surgeons table they would be hard pressed to save you.
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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 8:21:15 PM EST
Won't the heart keep beating until empty, or the brain quits?

Brain will continue until oxygen(from the blood)levels cause it to quit?

I thought it could be 15 secs to a minute. Granted, not a lot of time. But it all depends on the damage/other trama/ect.
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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 8:28:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2012 8:34:54 PM EST by scottfire1957]
A "severe cut?"

To the aorta?

Mere seconds until you pass out.

1. Little blood flow to the brain, which is very important!
2. Increased pressure in the thoracic cavity(from all that blood being pumped into that cavity, at an increasing rate as the brain make the heart pump faster to make up for the volume loss that is going into your chest, trying to maintain a homeostatic blood pressure!) which impedes ventilation, which impedes respiration, increasing oxygen deprivation at the cellular level.
3. LOW BLOOD PRESSURE overall wil make you pass out within seconds. Did you ever see anyone pass out after getting a shot, or after seeing their own blood from a little bitty cut? Same difference, except one is loss of fluid in the recepticle, the other increase of size of recepticle with out an increase in volume of fluid.

A "sever cut" to the aorta, would be quite quickly fatal.


Edited.

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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 8:32:42 PM EST
So, pain doesn't come into play, as I'm reading it you're dead before it is has a chance to really hurt?
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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 8:34:35 PM EST
Duh, forgot about how a quick change in blood pressure, will cause the body to attempt to save the brain by shutting down the body and save blood usage.
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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 8:35:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By jj01:
So, pain doesn't come into play, as I'm reading it you're dead before it is has a chance to really hurt?

Yeah, adrenaline kicks in and you just pass out, while bleeding out.
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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 8:37:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By jj01:
So, pain doesn't come into play, as I'm reading it you're dead before it is has a chance to really hurt?



Oh no, I'm sure it might hurt for a second or two, if your were stabbed in the chest or abdomen, until you passed out. Depeding of course, on what you were stabbed with. Or shot with.

Pain could definitely come into paly.

Is this someone you knew?

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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 8:38:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By jj01:
So, pain doesn't come into play, as I'm reading it you're dead before it is has a chance to really hurt?


Aortic aneurysm dissection pain is described as searing and knife-edged.
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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 9:03:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By berto187:
Won't the heart keep beating until empty, or the brain quits?

Not quite until empty. The heart is a muscle, and has its own electrical system, and it needs blood to stay alive every bit as much as the rest of your body.

Your heart will begin to respond to blood loss by increasing the rate of heartbeats, in an attempt to compensate. To a certain point this works, but here's the problem: the more the heart tries to compensate, the harder it is working; and the harder it is working, the more blood it needs to keep going, and why was the heart going faster in the first place? Because you have less blood to begin with and are still losing blood. The vicious cycle continues: your heart is now working harder and harder, but is getting less and less blood to keep it going. The electrical system is usually the first thing to call it quits, and suddenly your heart goes from a controlled, coordinated pump to a quivering lump of muscle.

At that point, it really isn't functioning as a pump at all. Now the rest of your body really starts to feel the pain (well, it's probably been feeling the pain already, but it gets worse from here on out). The brain, of course, is notoriously pissy about being starved of oxygen. At this point you've got really very little time before significant injury occurs - you'd better have someone pumping fluids and blood products through a large-bore IV several minutes ago and getting your heart started again (or at least doing chest compressions to get at least a minimal amount of circulation going) or the best you can hope for is being hooked up to a ventilator while your shock liver and renal failure and neurological damage do their best to convince your loved ones that nope, you really, really aren't coming back even though the machine is still pushing air in and out of you.
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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 9:13:08 PM EST
My uncle got out well after telling my aunt he was not feeling well. His torn free at the base of the heart and was dead before he hit the floor.

His brother in law almost the same thing a year to the day of my uncle. Was with the wife and said honey and dropped dead.

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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 9:13:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By Polupharmakos:

Originally Posted By berto187:
Won't the heart keep beating until empty, or the brain quits?

Not quite until empty. The heart is a muscle, and has its own electrical system, and it needs blood to stay alive every bit as much as the rest of your body.

Your heart will begin to respond to blood loss by increasing the rate of heartbeats, in an attempt to compensate. To a certain point this works, but here's the problem: the more the heart tries to compensate, the harder it is working; and the harder it is working, the more blood it needs to keep going, and why was the heart going faster in the first place? Because you have less blood to begin with and are still losing blood. The vicious cycle continues: your heart is now working harder and harder, but is getting less and less blood to keep it going. The electrical system is usually the first thing to call it quits, and suddenly your heart goes from a controlled, coordinated pump to a quivering lump of muscle.

At that point, it really isn't functioning as a pump at all. Now the rest of your body really starts to feel the pain (well, it's probably been feeling the pain already, but it gets worse from here on out). The brain, of course, is notoriously pissy about being starved of oxygen. At this point you've got really very little time before significant injury occurs - you'd better have someone pumping fluids and blood products through a large-bore IV several minutes ago and getting your heart started again (or at least doing chest compressions to get at least a minimal amount of circulation going) or the best you can hope for is being hooked up to a ventilator while your shock liver and renal failure and neurological damage do their best to convince your loved ones that nope, you really, really aren't coming back even though the machine is still pushing air in and out of you.
Wow! I only know that you can trick the brain, into thinking blood pressure has dropped drastically by hitting someone really hard in the neck.

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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 9:23:25 PM EST
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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 10:03:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By berto187:

Originally Posted By Polupharmakos:

Originally Posted By berto187:
Won't the heart keep beating until empty, or the brain quits?

Not quite until empty. The heart is a muscle, and has its own electrical system, and it needs blood to stay alive every bit as much as the rest of your body.

Your heart will begin to respond to blood loss by increasing the rate of heartbeats, in an attempt to compensate. To a certain point this works, but here's the problem: the more the heart tries to compensate, the harder it is working; and the harder it is working, the more blood it needs to keep going, and why was the heart going faster in the first place? Because you have less blood to begin with and are still losing blood. The vicious cycle continues: your heart is now working harder and harder, but is getting less and less blood to keep it going. The electrical system is usually the first thing to call it quits, and suddenly your heart goes from a controlled, coordinated pump to a quivering lump of muscle.

At that point, it really isn't functioning as a pump at all. Now the rest of your body really starts to feel the pain (well, it's probably been feeling the pain already, but it gets worse from here on out). The brain, of course, is notoriously pissy about being starved of oxygen. At this point you've got really very little time before significant injury occurs - you'd better have someone pumping fluids and blood products through a large-bore IV several minutes ago and getting your heart started again (or at least doing chest compressions to get at least a minimal amount of circulation going) or the best you can hope for is being hooked up to a ventilator while your shock liver and renal failure and neurological damage do their best to convince your loved ones that nope, you really, really aren't coming back even though the machine is still pushing air in and out of you.
Wow! I only know that you can trick the brain, into thinking blood pressure has dropped drastically by hitting someone really hard in the neck.




Huh? Is this a NINJA thing? Because physiology works differently. You should take an A&P course, after you graduate high school! Try your local community college!

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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 10:25:39 PM EST
So, uh, then what is the best way to clean up LOTS of blood, I am only asking because like this friend of mine had and, um, accident and well....

And do you prefer latex or vinyl gloves?
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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 10:39:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By yekimak:
So, uh, then what is the best way to clean up LOTS of blood, I am only asking because like this friend of mine had and, um, accident and well....

And do you prefer latex or vinyl gloves?
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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 10:42:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By jj01:
If someone were to sever the aorta how long before the bleed out? Pass out? What is the pain level? What if it is only a partial cut, does it matter given the blood pressure?


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Link Posted: 9/14/2012 11:12:40 PM EST
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Link Posted: 9/15/2012 3:10:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By berto187:

Originally Posted By Polupharmakos:

Originally Posted By berto187:
Won't the heart keep beating until empty, or the brain quits?

Not quite until empty. The heart is a muscle, and has its own electrical system, and it needs blood to stay alive every bit as much as the rest of your body.

Your heart will begin to respond to blood loss by increasing the rate of heartbeats, in an attempt to compensate. To a certain point this works, but here's the problem: the more the heart tries to compensate, the harder it is working; and the harder it is working, the more blood it needs to keep going, and why was the heart going faster in the first place? Because you have less blood to begin with and are still losing blood. The vicious cycle continues: your heart is now working harder and harder, but is getting less and less blood to keep it going. The electrical system is usually the first thing to call it quits, and suddenly your heart goes from a controlled, coordinated pump to a quivering lump of muscle.

At that point, it really isn't functioning as a pump at all. Now the rest of your body really starts to feel the pain (well, it's probably been feeling the pain already, but it gets worse from here on out). The brain, of course, is notoriously pissy about being starved of oxygen. At this point you've got really very little time before significant injury occurs - you'd better have someone pumping fluids and blood products through a large-bore IV several minutes ago and getting your heart started again (or at least doing chest compressions to get at least a minimal amount of circulation going) or the best you can hope for is being hooked up to a ventilator while your shock liver and renal failure and neurological damage do their best to convince your loved ones that nope, you really, really aren't coming back even though the machine is still pushing air in and out of you.
Wow! I only know that you can trick the brain, into thinking blood pressure has dropped drastically by hitting someone really hard in the neck.



That's wrong... and don't do that.


Being an ER physician in GD must be exhausting.



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Link Posted: 9/15/2012 3:13:21 AM EST
My mother had a Aortic Aneurysm about 11 years ago and survived but now has a Dacron shield and a ST. Judes metal heart valve.Local hospital up in NY didn't know what was going on for quite awhile,then they found what was wrong and had my mother life flighted to Westchester Medical Center in NY from Poughkeepsie NY.She was in surgery for 8 hours and the surgeon came out and said they didn't know if she would make it and we would have to wait and see.She made it but usually you don't.

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Link Posted: 9/15/2012 3:20:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By C-4:
Originally Posted By jj01:
If someone were to sever the aorta how long before the bleed out? Pass out? What is the pain level? What if it is only a partial cut, does it matter given the blood pressure?


It depends.

As a med student, a surgeon removing a cancerous kidney said, "Watch this." He then proceeded to pinch the renal artery between his fingers and then he severed cleanly. He let go of it with his fingers about 30 seconds later and there was barely a drop coming out. Of course he tied it off, but he wanted to demonstrate how a completely severed artery will go into vasospasm to the point it will cut off all blood flow. One of the surgeons I shadowed said he had a patient stabbed in the abdomen and the abdominal portion of the aortic artery had undergone similar vasospasm to the point that he was able to save the young man's life.

If an artery is instead "peppered" with shrapnel or struck by a bullet and only partially cut, then it will continue to bleed until about 50% of the blood volume is lost and you go into cardiovascular collapse. How quickly that happens depends on the size of the artery. With the aorta it would likely take a couple of minutes. One of the cadavers I dissected on had a ruptured abdominal aortic aneurysm. Tons of blood in the abdomen.


Beautiful answer, I salute you

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Link Posted: 9/15/2012 3:22:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By berto187:

Originally Posted By Polupharmakos:

Originally Posted By berto187:
Won't the heart keep beating until empty, or the brain quits?

Not quite until empty. The heart is a muscle, and has its own electrical system, and it needs blood to stay alive every bit as much as the rest of your body.

Your heart will begin to respond to blood loss by increasing the rate of heartbeats, in an attempt to compensate. To a certain point this works, but here's the problem: the more the heart tries to compensate, the harder it is working; and the harder it is working, the more blood it needs to keep going, and why was the heart going faster in the first place? Because you have less blood to begin with and are still losing blood. The vicious cycle continues: your heart is now working harder and harder, but is getting less and less blood to keep it going. The electrical system is usually the first thing to call it quits, and suddenly your heart goes from a controlled, coordinated pump to a quivering lump of muscle.

At that point, it really isn't functioning as a pump at all. Now the rest of your body really starts to feel the pain (well, it's probably been feeling the pain already, but it gets worse from here on out). The brain, of course, is notoriously pissy about being starved of oxygen. At this point you've got really very little time before significant injury occurs - you'd better have someone pumping fluids and blood products through a large-bore IV several minutes ago and getting your heart started again (or at least doing chest compressions to get at least a minimal amount of circulation going) or the best you can hope for is being hooked up to a ventilator while your shock liver and renal failure and neurological damage do their best to convince your loved ones that nope, you really, really aren't coming back even though the machine is still pushing air in and out of you.
Wow! I only know that you can trick the brain, into thinking blood pressure has dropped drastically by hitting someone really hard in the neck.



That's wrong... and don't do that.



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Link Posted: 9/15/2012 12:47:30 PM EST
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Link Posted: 9/15/2012 1:59:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By TraumaRN:
Awesome video!

Originally Posted By jsnappa:
I've taken care of hundreds of aortic dissections and a couple transected aortas that survived w/ surgery.
Dr. Tom Martin in action (graphic): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWRRNNDeIo




Wow, I was very surprised to see the surgeon going at the heart with bare hands (no gloves!)


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Link Posted: 9/15/2012 2:05:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By berto187:

Originally Posted By Polupharmakos:

Originally Posted By berto187:
Won't the heart keep beating until empty, or the brain quits?

Not quite until empty. The heart is a muscle, and has its own electrical system, and it needs blood to stay alive every bit as much as the rest of your body.

Your heart will begin to respond to blood loss by increasing the rate of heartbeats, in an attempt to compensate. To a certain point this works, but here's the problem: the more the heart tries to compensate, the harder it is working; and the harder it is working, the more blood it needs to keep going, and why was the heart going faster in the first place? Because you have less blood to begin with and are still losing blood. The vicious cycle continues: your heart is now working harder and harder, but is getting less and less blood to keep it going. The electrical system is usually the first thing to call it quits, and suddenly your heart goes from a controlled, coordinated pump to a quivering lump of muscle.

At that point, it really isn't functioning as a pump at all. Now the rest of your body really starts to feel the pain (well, it's probably been feeling the pain already, but it gets worse from here on out). The brain, of course, is notoriously pissy about being starved of oxygen. At this point you've got really very little time before significant injury occurs - you'd better have someone pumping fluids and blood products through a large-bore IV several minutes ago and getting your heart started again (or at least doing chest compressions to get at least a minimal amount of circulation going) or the best you can hope for is being hooked up to a ventilator while your shock liver and renal failure and neurological damage do their best to convince your loved ones that nope, you really, really aren't coming back even though the machine is still pushing air in and out of you.
Wow! I only know that you can trick the brain, into thinking blood pressure has dropped drastically by hitting someone really hard in the neck.



That's wrong... and don't do that.

This, no matter what you have seen on youtube.
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Link Posted: 9/15/2012 2:07:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By nhsport:
Originally Posted By TraumaRN:
Awesome video!

Originally Posted By jsnappa:
I've taken care of hundreds of aortic dissections and a couple transected aortas that survived w/ surgery.
Dr. Tom Martin in action (graphic): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWRRNNDeIo




Wow, I was very surprised to see the surgeon going at the heart with bare hands (no gloves!)



He had gloves on.

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Link Posted: 9/15/2012 2:31:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By nhsport:
Originally Posted By TraumaRN:
Awesome video!

Originally Posted By jsnappa:
I've taken care of hundreds of aortic dissections and a couple transected aortas that survived w/ surgery.
Dr. Tom Martin in action (graphic): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWRRNNDeIo




Wow, I was very surprised to see the surgeon going at the heart with bare hands (no gloves!)

He has gloves on, the figernails are not visible...

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Link Posted: 9/15/2012 2:37:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/15/2012 2:37:33 PM EST by MP0117]
Originally Posted By C-4:
Originally Posted By jj01:
If someone were to sever the aorta how long before the bleed out? Pass out? What is the pain level? What if it is only a partial cut, does it matter given the blood pressure?


It depends.

As a med student, a surgeon removing a cancerous kidney said, "Watch this." He then proceeded to pinch the renal artery between his fingers and then he severed cleanly. He let go of it with his fingers about 30 seconds later and there was barely a drop coming out. Of course he tied it off, but he wanted to demonstrate how a completely severed artery will go into vasospasm to the point it will cut off all blood flow. One of the surgeons I shadowed said he had a patient stabbed in the abdomen and the abdominal portion of the aortic artery had undergone similar vasospasm to the point that he was able to save the young man's life.

If an artery is instead "peppered" with shrapnel or struck by a bullet and only partially cut, then it will continue to bleed until about 50% of the blood volume is lost and you go into cardiovascular collapse. How quickly that happens depends on the size of the artery. With the aorta it would likely take a couple of minutes. One of the cadavers I dissected on had a ruptured abdominal aortic aneurysm. Tons of blood in the abdomen.


Interesting to hear you say this. A surgeon told me this years ago and I always wondered about it.


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Link Posted: 9/15/2012 2:46:42 PM EST
From the death investigations I've been involved in where an aortic dissection was a factor, I'd say very little pain and a quick death. Now the trauma from an injury in which the aorta was severed would be pretty painful, but pain would subside as 02 deprivation set in.

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Link Posted: 9/15/2012 2:54:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/15/2012 2:56:46 PM EST by zeekh]
Originally Posted By DocBull:
My uncle got out well after telling my aunt he was not feeling well. His torn free at the base of the heart and was dead before he hit the floor.

His brother in law almost the same thing a year to the day of my uncle. Was with the wife and said honey and dropped dead.


thats the way my father went. My mother didn't want to do an autopsy. in hindsight I wish she did. Might have been a genetic thing or something hereditary

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