User Panel
Posted: 9/6/2012 3:50:28 PM EDT
One of the gods of Germanic Paganism, Odin, says:
"Let a man never stir on his road a step without his weapons of war; For unsure is the knowing when need shall arise of a spear on the way without." In other words: Don't leave home without a weapon; you never know when you might need it. This is pretty clear. Carry a "weapon of war" at all times. If I do not, I am not following Odin's instructions. If I die because I was foolishly unarmed, I may not be invited to his (or Freja's) hall for failing to heed these words. How I die is a very important part of my beliefs. Now Nevada allows me to practice this part of my religion, but if I wish to travel in California or live there, I cannot. Why can't California's (or any other restrictive state's) laws be challenged on religious freedom grounds? This is a serious question. Some points: - Germanic Paganism is a real religion. These beliefs were held by my ancestors a thousand years ago, and are still followed by many all over the world. Just because it is not as popular today, does not make it less legitimate than a more popular one. If Wicca (recently invented, with no sacred texts, and its followers unable to agree on which gods/godesses to follow) is recognized as a real religion, then this one certainly should be. After all, four days of our week are named in honor of Germanic gods. - This verse is a direct piece of wisdom from a god to his people. There is little room for interpretation here. (Unless you want to claim that this applies only to weapons of war at the time - spears, hammers, swords, axes - or only a spear, because that is the only weapon specifically mentioned.) - Heeding this instruction does no harm to anyone. This is not a case where practicing a religion interferes with anyone else's rights. - Being armed is an essential component of this religion. Most of the gods and godesses are fighters. The most commonly accepted symbol of this religion is Mjolnir, Thor's Hammer - a weapon. Odin carries his spear, Gungnir. And of course, Tyr, the one who accompanies warriors to the field of battle, is also always armed. The stories and writings of these beliefs are full of fighting and war, and are very clear as to how a man should fight and die. - A little pocketknife is not a weapon, but a handgun should qualify as a "weapon of war" (barely, but it's at least as effective as a spear). - This definitely not a case of creating a religion to get around a law. Yet the Native American Church was actually created to allow peyote use in ceremonies, and after several legal battles, its members are free to do so. |
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I,suspect there is case law that they can limit that to ceremonial/pinned weapons
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Odin did fine with spears, so should you. Pole weapons are probably more illegal than guns, IMHO............ |
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Jesus said we should have swords, and St. Peter carried one, and he was the first pope, so can Catholics join you on this?
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Jesus said we should have swords, and St. Peter carried one, and he was the first pope, so can Catholics join you on this? Luke 22:36 |
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So file a lawsuit.
I don't think you'll win, but I'll kick in 50 bucks to the fund anyways. |
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I,suspect there is case law that they can limit that to ceremonial/pinned weapons Even though the intent of the requirement is one that is still necessary in today's atmosphere? It could be easily argued that the intent of the requirement is to protect the members of the religion from harm. People are still being harmed, therefore a weapon for self defense would be a legal use (if used to defend yourself from an attack that would warrant use of a deadly weapon). A pinned weapon would serve about as much purpose as carrying around an empty scabbard, in the regard of the intent of the requirement. Christians are required to do certain things, even though they are ceremonial, the rest of us have to put up with it. Many of our laws are based in Christianity (marriage), yet everyone is bound by them equally. |
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Jesus said we should have swords, and St. Peter carried one, and he was the first pope, so can Catholics join you on this? Luke 22:36 You should. You are required to be armed, so be fucking armed god damn it! <this is sarcasm, don't do this without consulting your local laws, I'm not responsible for what you choose to do, or the consequences therein> |
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My name is Thor. I have a hammer.
I hammer in the morning, all over this land. |
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If the prohibition on weapons is not specifically directed at inhibiting the practice of your specific religion, and it is generally applicable to everyone, it will pass muster. Neutral laws of general applicability do not violate the free excercise clause. Employment Division v Smith. |
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Quoted: Jesus said we should have swords, and St. Peter carried one, and he was the first pope, so can Catholics join you on this? Actually he wanted some swords for the confrontation in the garden, and if they didn't have any, they should buy some. They said they had two, he said "its enough". Its not a commandment for every person to go out and buy weapons. |
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Quoted: If the prohibition on weapons is not specifically directed at inhibiting the practice of your specific religion, and it is generally applicable to everyone, it will pass muster. Neutral laws of general applicability do not violate the free excercise clause. Employment Division v Smith. So like the heath care law covering abortions and contraception? |
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Can I pay lip service to that religion just to get the ability to carry my AR wherever I go??
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Quoted: Odin did fine with spears, so should you. +1, there's no way Odin could have foreseen the developments in weapons design over the past couple of millennia. Those requirements were about hunting anyway. A good religion's precepts are 'living' precepts and are flexible enough to shift over time. |
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Technically you can. Just unload it and lock it up in a case.
Next... |
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Odin did fine with spears, so should you. Pole weapons are probably more illegal than guns, IMHO............ I have walked down plenty of beaches carrying a pole spear and noone cared. Try that with a gun in Kommiefornia! |
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I,suspect there is case law that they can limit that to ceremonial/pinned weapons Even though the intent of the requirement is one that is still necessary in today's atmosphere? It could be easily argued that the intent of the requirement is to protect the members of the religion from harm. People are still being harmed, therefore a weapon for self defense would be a legal use (if used to defend yourself from an attack that would warrant use of a deadly weapon). A pinned weapon would serve about as much purpose as carrying around an empty scabbard, in the regard of the intent of the requirement. Even more than that. If I am unarmed, and I'm attacked and I die shamefully begging my attacker for mercy, or I run away, or even worst of all, fail to defend my loved ones because I have no effective weapon, I will be found wanting. Those things are unacceptable. A fake weapon is no weapon. |
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If the prohibition on weapons is not specifically directed at inhibiting the practice of your specific religion, and it is generally applicable to everyone, it will pass muster. Neutral laws of general applicability do not violate the free excercise clause. Employment Division v Smith. But wasn't the American Indian Religious Freedom Act passed in response to that? And no state is allowed to restrict peyote use in religious ceremonies now? Or do I have that wrong? |
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Jesus said we should have swords, and St. Peter carried one, and he was the first pope, so can Catholics join you on this? Actually he wanted some swords for the confrontation in the garden, and if they didn't have any, they should buy some. They said they had two, he said "its enough". Its not a commandment for every person to go out and buy weapons. Nonsense. Besides, if the vikings are running around with spears, I want a sword by side. |
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You can carry a spear here.
Or a Springfield Armory M1A or Remington shotgun uncased sitting in the open in the car next to you ... just unloaded. Nonconcealable firearms (rifles and shotguns) are not generally covered within the provisions of California Penal Code section 12025 and therefore are not required to be transported in a locked container. However, as with any firearm, nonconcealable firearms must be unloaded while they are being transported. A rifle or shotgun that is considered an assault weapon in California must be transported in accordance with Penal Code section 12026.1. But to answer your question, state religion trumps all others. Why can't I walk through a Nevada casino with an unloaded rifle locked in a gun case? |
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Odin did fine with spears, so should you. Walking through Walmart with a halberd would probably create much more of a fuss than a G26 |
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I thought you were going to say you were Sikh. Me too. |
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I just had a frakkin' awesome idea for what is, literally, a concealable spear.
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I thought you were going to say you were Sikh. Me too!! |
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If the prohibition on weapons is not specifically directed at inhibiting the practice of your specific religion, and it is generally applicable to everyone, it will pass muster. Neutral laws of general applicability do not violate the free excercise clause. Employment Division v Smith. But wasn't the American Indian Religious Freedom Act passed in response to that? And no state is allowed to restrict peyote use in religious ceremonies now? Or do I have that wrong? The AIRFA doesn't overrule Smith, but rather creates a statutory exemption for certain American Indian religious practices. Smith is still good law, and a state can prohibit certain religious conduct with a neutrally written law of general applicability, except to the extent AIRFA protects certain American Indian practices with a federal statute. |
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Jesus said we should have swords, and St. Peter carried one, and he was the first pope, so can Catholics join you on this? Luke 22:36 You sure Jesus was talking to everyone, or those currently present? Seems to be taken out of context, IMHO. Not that I disagree with the overall message, but still... Also, hell yes! Carry swords/spears/guns! Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Technically you can. Just unload it and lock it up in a case. Next... Originally Posted By Paul
Or a Springfield Armory M1A or Remington shotgun uncased sitting in the open in the car next to you ... just unloaded. Nonconcealable firearms (rifles and shotguns) are not generally covered within the provisions of California Penal Code section 12025 and therefore are not required to be transported in a locked container. However, as with any firearm, nonconcealable firearms must be unloaded while they are being transported. A rifle or shotgun that is considered an assault weapon in California must be transported in accordance with Penal Code section 12026.1. Hmm. These responses make me think if a challenge was made on exercise of religion grounds, it would end up being the same battle as Second Amendment rights. It may not be of any purpose to do that, then. The First Amendment is more respected by those who oppose gun rights, though... |
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I thought you were going to say you were Sikh. Me too!! The Sikhs have won religious exemptions for the freedom to carry their weapons in some states. So it is possible. At least for those weapons. |
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In all honesty we shouldn't be having to come up with these bullshit reasons to carry. We should just be allowed too.
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Quoted: One of the gods of Germanic Paganism, Odin, says: "Let a man never stir on his road a step without his weapons of war; For unsure is the knowing when need shall arise of a spear on the way without." In other words: Don't leave home without a weapon; you never know when you might need it. This is pretty clear. Carry a "weapon of war" at all times. If I do not, I am not following Odin's instructions. If I die because I was foolishly unarmed, I may not be invited to his (or Freja's) hall for failing to heed these words. How I die is a very important part of my beliefs. Now Nevada allows me to practice this part of my religion, but if I wish to travel in California or live there, I cannot. Why can't California's (or any other restrictive state's) laws be challenged on religious freedom grounds? This is a serious question. Some points: - Germanic Paganism is a real religion. These beliefs were held by my ancestors a thousand years ago, and are still followed by many all over the world. Just because it is not as popular today, does not make it less legitimate than a more popular one. If Wicca (recently invented, with no sacred texts, and its followers unable to agree on which gods/godesses to follow) is recognized as a real religion, then this one certainly should be. After all, four days of our week are named in honor of Germanic gods. - This verse is a direct piece of wisdom from a god to his people. There is little room for interpretation here. (Unless you want to claim that this applies only to weapons of war at the time - spears, hammers, swords, axes - or only a spear, because that is the only weapon specifically mentioned.) - Heeding this instruction does no harm to anyone. This is not a case where practicing a religion interferes with anyone else's rights. - Being armed is an essential component of this religion. Most of the gods and godesses are fighters. The most commonly accepted symbol of this religion is Mjolnir, Thor's Hammer - a weapon. Odin carries his spear, Gungnir. And of course, Tyr, the one who accompanies warriors to the field of battle, is also always armed. The stories and writings of these beliefs are full of fighting and war, and are very clear as to how a man should fight and die. - A little pocketknife is not a weapon, but a handgun should qualify as a "weapon of war" (barely, but it's at least as effective as a spear). - This definitely not a case of creating a religion to get around a law. Yet the Native American Church was actually created to allow peyote use in ceremonies, and after several legal battles, its members are free to do so. move to Alaska, carry whatever you want, I do |
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