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 Strongbow
A Boxer-Henry .45 caliber miracle
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Posted: 8/21/2012 2:46:21 PM
Originally Posted By Orbital-Burn:
Originally Posted By Banjaxed:
Originally Posted By Orbital-Burn:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By Orbital-Burn:
Originally Posted By Banjaxed:
Originally Posted By CRC:
However, this jackass made it an issue, and it's not going away quietly.
Abortion is ALWAYS an issue in every election since 1973. No it is not. It is a lost cause and a losing cause for those who argue it. Roe Vs Wade is not going away no matter how hard you stomp your feet and wish it would. The only thing that results from it is Republicans turning away a large portion of voters to court a few with lip service. It would be best to remain silent on the issue. A lesson this twit will learn as he watches his ass handed to him in the elections. http://www.christianshirts.net/images/designs/large/reagan350.jpg I've notice that most of the people in favor of banning abortion in the case of rape pregnancy are in no danger of it happening to them personally. Either it's a life or it's not. I could post exceptions to your statement that amount to way more statistical significance than those to get raped and conceive, but what would be the point? My post was to show the previous person an example of how wrong he is. Can you show me how many rape victim's offspring are in favor of abortion for cases of rape? Either a woman has a right to control what happens with her body or she does not. Blanket statements are the precursor to circular arguments. Nothing in life is truly black and white. Least of all the topic of debate here. au contraire The point at which we as a society determine life HAS to be black and white. Otherwise we can take our entire justice system, wad it up and throw it away. If it's a life, it doesn't matter that it's a product of rape. If it's not a life, than we have to clearly determine when life is. OK. 20 weeks. Done. |
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Jarhead08
Naval Gang-Bang Spotter Tier 2
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Posted: 8/21/2012 2:49:01 PM
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX: Originally Posted By Jarhead08: Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX: He may not be but the State GOP is dropping out on him financially and support wise. He'll be in it alone, well except for his support from McCaskill. Fuck Todd Akin. I also heard the state party could pull him off the ticket but they'd have to go to court to do it. They can and they are meeting tonight in the event he doesn't aquiesce to the wishes of the party to set that in motion. However Brunner isn't being considered as the replacement as of 10:00 this morning despite coming in second, Steelman is the front runner which is not sitting well outside party headquarters with local committees. This as every opportunity to become a knife fight within the Missouri GOP. |
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Posted: 8/21/2012 2:51:29 PM
Originally Posted By Strongbow:
Originally Posted By Orbital-Burn:
Originally Posted By Banjaxed:
Originally Posted By Orbital-Burn:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By Orbital-Burn:
Originally Posted By Banjaxed:
Originally Posted By CRC:
However, this jackass made it an issue, and it's not going away quietly.
Abortion is ALWAYS an issue in every election since 1973. No it is not. It is a lost cause and a losing cause for those who argue it. Roe Vs Wade is not going away no matter how hard you stomp your feet and wish it would. The only thing that results from it is Republicans turning away a large portion of voters to court a few with lip service. It would be best to remain silent on the issue. A lesson this twit will learn as he watches his ass handed to him in the elections. http://www.christianshirts.net/images/designs/large/reagan350.jpg I've notice that most of the people in favor of banning abortion in the case of rape pregnancy are in no danger of it happening to them personally. Either it's a life or it's not. I could post exceptions to your statement that amount to way more statistical significance than those to get raped and conceive, but what would be the point? My post was to show the previous person an example of how wrong he is. Can you show me how many rape victim's offspring are in favor of abortion for cases of rape? Either a woman has a right to control what happens with her body or she does not. Blanket statements are the precursor to circular arguments. Nothing in life is truly black and white. Least of all the topic of debate here. au contraire The point at which we as a society determine life HAS to be black and white. Otherwise we can take our entire justice system, wad it up and throw it away. If it's a life, it doesn't matter that it's a product of rape. If it's not a life, than we have to clearly determine when life is. OK. 20 weeks. Done. That doesn't begin to make sense from a medical perspective. |
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pwr2al4
Never Forget
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Posted: 8/21/2012 3:00:49 PM
Originally Posted By fxntime: Originally Posted By scotchymcdrinkerbean: Originally Posted By fxntime: Originally Posted By scotchymcdrinkerbean: Originally Posted By fxntime: He's not really lying, there is some truth to what he says. Even saying that however, is totally non PC. Do tell. Talk to a fertility specialist, stress is hell on a woman getting pregnant. Would I say it would never happen in rape? Hell no I wouldn't, but he's also not just "making it up." OTOH, there are lots of cases where rape is claimed and I'd be hard pressed to call it rape. People don't like talking about that either even though it happens more then society want's to think it does. I do not feel that I can respond this statement while abiding with the code of conduct of this website. I will, accordingly, reserve comment at this time. Thats fine, Alpha-Amylase. Look it up. There is a lot of info about stress and pregnancy [getting pregnant] and the affects stress can have. As I said before, would I bet on that, hell no I wouldn't. There are also other medical issues like STDs that are not to be underestimated with rape. In case your ever wondering where specifically you decided to take a statement that might be scientifically factual and then insert your own brand of bullshit in order to suite your poorly conceieved and fictitious claim, I went ahead and highlighted it for your to see. But keep going, making up bullshit and calling it science has worked so well for people as a species in teh past. ... |
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Bostekrisco
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Posted: 8/21/2012 3:06:05 PM
Originally Posted By Jarhead08:
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
Originally Posted By Jarhead08:
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
He may not be but the State GOP is dropping out on him financially and support wise. He'll be in it alone, well except for his support from McCaskill. Fuck Todd Akin. I also heard the state party could pull him off the ticket but they'd have to go to court to do it. They can and they are meeting tonight in the event he doesn't aquiesce to the wishes of the party to set that in motion. However Brunner isn't being considered as the replacement as of 10:00 this morning despite coming in second, Steelman is the front runner which is not sitting well outside party headquarters with local committees. This as every opportunity to become a knife fight within the Missouri GOP. Do you know why this is? He seemed to be a shoo-in right up until the actual election. Also, I listened to bits of the radio show to which AJ alluded-the Dana Lasch Show- and she seemed pretty adamant that it would have to be Akin going to court to have hmself removed. Are we sure the state GOP can petition the courts? |
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AJ-IN-JAX
Get the F*%# away from my coffee!!
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Posted: 8/21/2012 3:08:14 PM
Originally Posted By Jarhead08: They can and they are meeting tonight in the event he doesn't aquiesce to the wishes of the party to set that in motion. However Brunner isn't being considered as the replacement as of 10:00 this morning despite coming in second, Steelman is the front runner which is not sitting well outside party headquarters with local committees. This has every opportunity to become a knife fight within the Missouri GOP. Anyway to get that on Pay-per-view? |
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Posted: 8/21/2012 3:13:07 PM
Originally Posted By fxntime:
He's not really lying, there is some truth to what he says. Even saying that however, is totally non PC. BULLSHIT There is NO TRUTH to this crap! |
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Posted: 8/21/2012 3:16:27 PM
A wonder how much money one of the other primary candidates could raise if they went independent.
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Strongbow
A Boxer-Henry .45 caliber miracle
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Posted: 8/21/2012 3:17:59 PM
Originally Posted By Josh:
Originally Posted By Strongbow:
Originally Posted By Orbital-Burn:
Originally Posted By Banjaxed:
Originally Posted By Orbital-Burn:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By Orbital-Burn:
Originally Posted By Banjaxed:
Originally Posted By CRC:
However, this jackass made it an issue, and it's not going away quietly.
Abortion is ALWAYS an issue in every election since 1973. No it is not. It is a lost cause and a losing cause for those who argue it. Roe Vs Wade is not going away no matter how hard you stomp your feet and wish it would. The only thing that results from it is Republicans turning away a large portion of voters to court a few with lip service. It would be best to remain silent on the issue. A lesson this twit will learn as he watches his ass handed to him in the elections. http://www.christianshirts.net/images/designs/large/reagan350.jpg I've notice that most of the people in favor of banning abortion in the case of rape pregnancy are in no danger of it happening to them personally. Either it's a life or it's not. I could post exceptions to your statement that amount to way more statistical significance than those to get raped and conceive, but what would be the point? My post was to show the previous person an example of how wrong he is. Can you show me how many rape victim's offspring are in favor of abortion for cases of rape? Either a woman has a right to control what happens with her body or she does not. Blanket statements are the precursor to circular arguments. Nothing in life is truly black and white. Least of all the topic of debate here. au contraire The point at which we as a society determine life HAS to be black and white. Otherwise we can take our entire justice system, wad it up and throw it away. If it's a life, it doesn't matter that it's a product of rape. If it's not a life, than we have to clearly determine when life is. OK. 20 weeks. Done. That doesn't begin to make sense from a medical perspective. Precisely. Any point you pick is arbitrary, really. Might as well pick a time and go with it. 24 weeks is a good point, since most fetuses are cviable at that point. OTOH, conception isn't a good point since over 70% of fertilized eggs never result in a live birth. If 24 weeks is too late, then pick another. It'll be arbitrary, whatever it is. |
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Jarhead08
Naval Gang-Bang Spotter Tier 2
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Posted: 8/21/2012 3:18:06 PM
[Last Edit: 8/21/2012 3:21:22 PM by Jarhead08]
Originally Posted By Bostekrisco: Originally Posted By Jarhead08: Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX: Originally Posted By Jarhead08: Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX: He may not be but the State GOP is dropping out on him financially and support wise. He'll be in it alone, well except for his support from McCaskill. Fuck Todd Akin. I also heard the state party could pull him off the ticket but they'd have to go to court to do it. They can and they are meeting tonight in the event he doesn't aquiesce to the wishes of the party to set that in motion. However Brunner isn't being considered as the replacement as of 10:00 this morning despite coming in second, Steelman is the front runner which is not sitting well outside party headquarters with local committees. This as every opportunity to become a knife fight within the Missouri GOP. Do you know why this is? He seemed to be a shoo-in right up until the actual election. Also, I listened to bits of the radio show to which AJ alluded-the Dana Lasch Show- and she seemed pretty adamant that it would have to be Akin going to court to have hmself removed. Are we sure the state GOP can petition the courts? RSMo 115 agrees with you but maybe they know something I don't. The individual I talked says she thinks it's to offset the offense to women Rep. Dippity Doo caused. However she also mentioned a possible Independant or write in campaign for Brunner if Akin stays on the ballot.
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badfish274
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Posted: 8/21/2012 3:28:41 PM
Originally Posted By Jarhead08:
Talked to a GOP PAC member this morning. All monies have been withdrawn from the Aiken campaign, all GOP support at least at the state level and a strong suggestion he get out of the race. There is also confirmation that McCaskill made a 2.5 million donation to through another source to Akins primary campaign . Replacements are Steelman, Ann Wagner (wasn't in the primary)and another wasn't in the primary candidate , Brunner is not being mentioned at the upper levels of the State GOP but a segement at mid level are suggesting him and suggesting to him that he run an independant campaign. NPR had a great segment today about McCaskill's cynical game here. She had a PAC support Akins in the primary knowing he's the guy she wanted to face. Now she's saying "no we have to support the wishes of the primary voters" while cynically pushing for them to vote for the guy she'd most like to run against. |
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Jarhead08
Naval Gang-Bang Spotter Tier 2
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Posted: 8/21/2012 3:30:14 PM
Originally Posted By badfish274: Originally Posted By Jarhead08: Talked to a GOP PAC member this morning. All monies have been withdrawn from the Aiken campaign, all GOP support at least at the state level and a strong suggestion he get out of the race. There is also confirmation that McCaskill made a 2.5 million donation to through another source to Akins primary campaign . Replacements are Steelman, Ann Wagner (wasn't in the primary)and another wasn't in the primary candidate , Brunner is not being mentioned at the upper levels of the State GOP but a segement at mid level are suggesting him and suggesting to him that he run an independant campaign. NPR had a great segment today about McCaskill's cynical game here. She had a PAC support Akins in the primary knowing he's the guy she wanted to face. Now she's saying "no we have to support the wishes of the primary voters" while cynically pushing for them to vote for the guy she'd most like to run against. Yeah it's a cluster fuck, which works out in the bitches favor. |
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1Andy2
Grand Wizard of the Human Supremacist Movement
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Posted: 8/21/2012 3:37:30 PM
Originally Posted By 96Ag:
Originally Posted By Bhart89:
Originally Posted By Archangel69:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
If abortion is what the Republican party is going to stake it's political life on, then it's probably too stupid to continue living. Ding Ding we have a winner... We're you paying attention when the Republican party withdrew support for Akin? Shhh! All the cool kids think it's hip to be down on the Republicans in an election year. If I truly wanted the Republicans to lose big, I wouldn't say a goddamn thing. I'd just sit back and say nothing. Guys like Aken aren't just screwing up their own election chances, you know. |
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Aimless
The Original ®Angry Bird
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Posted: 8/21/2012 3:45:45 PM
This sounds like it's shaping up to be a real clusterfuck
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AJ-IN-JAX
Get the F*%# away from my coffee!!
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Posted: 8/21/2012 4:03:29 PM
Originally Posted By badfish274: Originally Posted By Jarhead08: Talked to a GOP PAC member this morning. All monies have been withdrawn from the Aiken campaign, all GOP support at least at the state level and a strong suggestion he get out of the race. There is also confirmation that McCaskill made a 2.5 million donation to through another source to Akins primary campaign . Replacements are Steelman, Ann Wagner (wasn't in the primary)and another wasn't in the primary candidate , Brunner is not being mentioned at the upper levels of the State GOP but a segement at mid level are suggesting him and suggesting to him that he run an independant campaign. NPR had a great segment today about McCaskill's cynical game here. She had a PAC support Akins in the primary knowing he's the guy she wanted to face. Now she's saying "no we have to support the wishes of the primary voters" while cynically pushing for them to vote for the guy she'd most like to run against. She is a vile cunt. |
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Jarhead08
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Posted: 8/21/2012 4:08:26 PM
[Last Edit: 8/21/2012 4:08:47 PM by Jarhead08]
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX: She is a vile,lying, duplicitous, evil cunt, who ignored the will of her constituency and voted for Obamacare against their expressed and majority wish just so she could have her lip lock on Obama's cock unchanged may fuck be upon her.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YShRO_Vcc2QFIFY |
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Posted: 8/21/2012 4:09:31 PM
Romney just called for his exit.
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AJ-IN-JAX
Get the F*%# away from my coffee!!
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Posted: 8/21/2012 4:10:09 PM
Originally Posted By Andrew7934: Romney just called for his exit. Bout fucking time..... |
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Jarhead08
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Posted: 8/21/2012 4:11:46 PM
Originally Posted By Andrew7934: Romney just called for his exit. Rep Dippity Dumbass of Missouri's 2nd Congressional District is too fucking stupid to withdraw. especially with his number one supporter (and opponent) The Wicked Witch of the Midwest stroking his ego. |
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LIINTLICKR
I WILL NOT COMPLY!
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Posted: 8/21/2012 4:23:35 PM
We need to rally around Akin at this point. All the crying and whining is pointless.
He is a solid Conservative who happened to stick his size 12 directly into his mouth. He apologized, end of story. This happens everyday for the Democrats, yet narry a peep about any of them ever "stepping down" for the good of their party. In November the choice will be: An Imperfect Conservative - Todd Akin vs. Claire The Socialist Who will Missouri choose? I have faith in them. 
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Posted: 8/21/2012 4:23:51 PM
Originally Posted By Jarhead08:
Originally Posted By Andrew7934:
Romney just called for his exit. Rep Dippity Dumbass of Missouri's 2nd Congressional District is too fucking stupid to withdraw. especially with his number one supporter (and opponent) The Wicked Witch of the Midwest stroking his ego. Like I said if he doesnt withdraw then some type of deal was made between him and Claire behind closed doors. |
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Posted: 8/21/2012 4:24:24 PM
Originally Posted By LIINTLICKR:
We need to rally around Akin at this point. All the crying and whining is pointless. He is a solid Conservative who happened to stick his size 12 directly into his mouth. He apologized, end of story. This happens everyday for the Democrats, yet narry a peep about any of them ever "stepping down" for the good of their party. In November the choice will be: An Imperfect Conservative - Todd Akin vs. Claire The Socialist Who will Missouri choose? I have faith in them.
LOL |
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leatherpuke
Who farted?
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Posted: 8/21/2012 4:27:38 PM
Originally Posted By distributor_of_pain:
I can't think of anything that infuriates me more than hearing someone tell another person that they should have to give birth to their rapists baby.  I can't think of anything that infuriates me more than someone suggesting that one persons life is worth more or less than another person simply because of how they were concieved. |
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Mullah_Atari
The Opossum Whisperer
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Posted: 8/21/2012 4:29:41 PM
Originally Posted By Andrew7934: Isn't this the same Senate district where the Republican lost an election to a dead man?Originally Posted By LIINTLICKR: We need to rally around Akin at this point. All the crying and whining is pointless. He is a solid Conservative who happened to stick his size 12 directly into his mouth. He apologized, end of story. This happens everyday for the Democrats, yet narry a peep about any of them ever "stepping down" for the good of their party. In November the choice will be: An Imperfect Conservative - Todd Akin vs. Claire The Socialist Who will Missouri choose? I have faith in them. LOL |
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Posted: 8/21/2012 4:35:50 PM
Originally Posted By Mullah_Atari:
Originally Posted By Andrew7934:
Isn't this the same Senate district where the Republican lost an election to a dead man?
Originally Posted By LIINTLICKR:
We need to rally around Akin at this point. All the crying and whining is pointless. He is a solid Conservative who happened to stick his size 12 directly into his mouth. He apologized, end of story. This happens everyday for the Democrats, yet narry a peep about any of them ever "stepping down" for the good of their party. In November the choice will be: An Imperfect Conservative - Todd Akin vs. Claire The Socialist Who will Missouri choose? I have faith in them.
LOL Yup Jean Carnahan elected purely on emotion NOT FACTS. |
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Strongbow
A Boxer-Henry .45 caliber miracle
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Posted: 8/21/2012 4:36:50 PM
Originally Posted By leatherpuke:
Originally Posted By distributor_of_pain:
I can't think of anything that infuriates me more than hearing someone tell another person that they should have to give birth to their rapists baby. I can't think of anything that infuriates me more than someone suggesting that one persons life is worth more or less than another person simply because of how they were concieved. What if it's a 14 year old kid who was raped? This is not a black and white world, and sometimes, all your choices are bad. In such cases, I want as little government as possible telling me what is "best" for me and mine. |
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Turboguy1
Chunk Style
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Posted: 8/21/2012 4:39:50 PM
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
If abortion is what the Republican party is going to stake it's political life on, then it's probably too stupid to continue living. This. There are *WAY* fucking larger issues that we should be beating the shit out of the Democrats over and we're still talking about this fucking NON GOD DAMNED ISSUE. The Abortion debate is settled. I may not like the results, but it's the way it is. If you vote single issue over Abortion, you've got serious problems and are SPECIFICALLY the reason our country is so fucked up. Now moving on, Barack Obama is trying to get Re-elected. How do we prevent this? |
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Posted: 8/21/2012 4:41:02 PM
Originally Posted By LIINTLICKR:
We need to rally around Akin at this point. All the crying and whining is pointless. He is a solid Conservative who happened to stick his size 12 directly into his mouth. He apologized, end of story. This happens everyday for the Democrats, yet narry a peep about any of them ever "stepping down" for the good of their party. In November the choice will be: An Imperfect Conservative - Todd Akin vs. Claire The Socialist Who will Missouri choose? I have faith in them.
No we don't, and I won't. He let his stupidity show in making those remarks in the first place. Now, he's cementing the disdain of any conservatives who remained unconvinced by refusing to step down when it's obviously the only logical choice for the party to gain any traction. I don't want McCaskill back in office any more than anyone - I recognize the importance of retaking the Senate. But this bozo is actively working against us. Rally around him? I think not. I'm going to do everything I can do to see him removed from the candidacy. Today's not the only deadline. FTA |
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Posted: 8/21/2012 4:42:20 PM
Originally Posted By Strongbow:
Originally Posted By leatherpuke:
Originally Posted By distributor_of_pain:
I can't think of anything that infuriates me more than hearing someone tell another person that they should have to give birth to their rapists baby. I can't think of anything that infuriates me more than someone suggesting that one persons life is worth more or less than another person simply because of how they were concieved. What if it's a 14 year old kid who was raped? This is not a black and white world, and sometimes, all your choices are bad. In such cases, I want as little government as possible telling me what is "best" for me and mine. Still an innocent life being snuffed out regardless. I've gone back and forth on the issue and I've finally settled on, bottom line, it's a life. |
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Jarhead08
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Posted: 8/21/2012 4:43:51 PM
Originally Posted By midmo: I've heard rumblings of an organized Brunner write in campaign. Originally Posted By LIINTLICKR: We need to rally around Akin at this point. All the crying and whining is pointless. He is a solid Conservative who happened to stick his size 12 directly into his mouth. He apologized, end of story. This happens everyday for the Democrats, yet narry a peep about any of them ever "stepping down" for the good of their party. In November the choice will be: An Imperfect Conservative - Todd Akin vs. Claire The Socialist Who will Missouri choose? I have faith in them. No we don't, and I won't. He let his stupidity show in making those remarks in the first place. Now, he's cementing the disdain of any conservatives who remained unconvinced by refusing to step down when it's obviously the only logical choice for the party to gain any traction. I don't want McCaskill back in office any more than anyone - I recognize the importance of retaking the Senate. But this bozo is actively working against us. Rally around him? I think not. I'm going to do everything I can do to see him removed from the candidacy. Today's not the only deadline. FTA |
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badfish274
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Posted: 8/21/2012 4:47:50 PM
[Last Edit: 8/21/2012 4:48:28 PM by badfish274]
Originally Posted By dhmjr40:
Originally Posted By Strongbow:
Originally Posted By leatherpuke:
Originally Posted By distributor_of_pain:
I can't think of anything that infuriates me more than hearing someone tell another person that they should have to give birth to their rapists baby. I can't think of anything that infuriates me more than someone suggesting that one persons life is worth more or less than another person simply because of how they were concieved. What if it's a 14 year old kid who was raped? This is not a black and white world, and sometimes, all your choices are bad. In such cases, I want as little government as possible telling me what is "best" for me and mine. Still an innocent life being snuffed out regardless. I've gone back and forth on the issue and I've finally settled on, bottom line, it's a life. Doesn't matter. No one's opinion matters, either way. A majority of women - a vast majority of women - will never be okay with being essentially forced to take a rapist's baby to term. Thats just the way things are. The prospect of their entire life being altered against their will and then being required to just go along with it does not settle well with the average woman. In fact, it terrifies her. Thats the reality. And the upshot is anyone who tries to convince anyone otherwise will be swiftly excoriated by a willing media. |
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Posted: 8/21/2012 4:49:56 PM
Originally Posted By Jarhead08:
Originally Posted By midmo:
I've heard rumblings of an organized Brunner write in campaign.
Originally Posted By LIINTLICKR:
We need to rally around Akin at this point. All the crying and whining is pointless. He is a solid Conservative who happened to stick his size 12 directly into his mouth. He apologized, end of story. This happens everyday for the Democrats, yet narry a peep about any of them ever "stepping down" for the good of their party. In November the choice will be: An Imperfect Conservative - Todd Akin vs. Claire The Socialist Who will Missouri choose? I have faith in them.
No we don't, and I won't. He let his stupidity show in making those remarks in the first place. Now, he's cementing the disdain of any conservatives who remained unconvinced by refusing to step down when it's obviously the only logical choice for the party to gain any traction. I don't want McCaskill back in office any more than anyone - I recognize the importance of retaking the Senate. But this bozo is actively working against us. Rally around him? I think not. I'm going to do everything I can do to see him removed from the candidacy. Today's not the only deadline. FTA A write in wont work if you want to help call the Missouri Republican Party at (573) 636-3146 or email info@mogop.org and let them know that Brunner is the man to replace Akin. |
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mcornell
Put Not Your Faith in Princes
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Posted: 8/21/2012 4:51:23 PM
Originally Posted By Strongbow: This is one of the things I do not understand about the abortion debate.
What if it's a 14 year old kid who was raped? This is not a black and white world, and sometimes, all your choices are bad. In such cases, I want as little government as possible telling me what is "best" for me and mine. If a fetus/child is a person, then having an abortion is murder. If a fetus/child is not a person, then abortion is not murder (and there would not seem to be any moral basis to outlaw it).
Would you allow a parent to kill a 5 year old child because the child was conceived in a rape?
If you believe that abortion is wrong because it is murder, why is killing an unborn child conceived by rape different than killing a "born" child conceived by rape?
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Posted: 8/21/2012 4:57:01 PM
Originally Posted By badfish274:
Originally Posted By dhmjr40:
Originally Posted By Strongbow:
Originally Posted By leatherpuke:
Originally Posted By distributor_of_pain:
I can't think of anything that infuriates me more than hearing someone tell another person that they should have to give birth to their rapists baby. I can't think of anything that infuriates me more than someone suggesting that one persons life is worth more or less than another person simply because of how they were concieved. What if it's a 14 year old kid who was raped? This is not a black and white world, and sometimes, all your choices are bad. In such cases, I want as little government as possible telling me what is "best" for me and mine. Still an innocent life being snuffed out regardless. I've gone back and forth on the issue and I've finally settled on, bottom line, it's a life. Doesn't matter. No one's opinion matters, either way. A majority of women - a vast majority of women - will never be okay with being essentially forced to take a rapist's baby to term. Thats just the way things are. The prospect of their entire life being altered against their will and then being required to just go along with it does not settle well with the average woman. In fact, it terrifies her. Thats the reality. And the upshot is anyone who tries to convince anyone otherwise will be swiftly excoriated by a willing media. True enough. Haven't heard the media dwell to much on Tonya Reeves, that young black woman who died at the Planned Parenthood Center in Chicago (I think it was Chicago) after lying there for 5 hours before a 911 call was made. The media does like to pick their stories I guess. |
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Posted: 8/21/2012 5:01:55 PM
[Last Edit: 8/21/2012 5:02:07 PM by David45]
What pisses me off is that that when asked about abortion and rape during the interview, he could've just "Why punish the child?" or something along those lines.
Instead he came up with probably the most offensive(and scientifically questionable) reason for prohibiting abortion for rape victims, one I didn't even know that people actually believed until this story hit. I mean you're supposed to be a devout christian, emphasize the importance of innocent life or some shit, don't herp-derp about some scientific theory. |
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Posted: 8/21/2012 5:04:17 PM
Originally Posted By Jarhead08:
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
Originally Posted By Jarhead08:
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
He may not be but the State GOP is dropping out on him financially and support wise. He'll be in it alone, well except for his support from McCaskill. Fuck Todd Akin. I also heard the state party could pull him off the ticket but they'd have to go to court to do it. They can and they are meeting tonight in the event he doesn't aquiesce to the wishes of the party to set that in motion. However Brunner isn't being considered as the replacement as of 10:00 this morning despite coming in second, Steelman is the front runner which is not sitting well outside party headquarters with local committees. This as every opportunity to become a knife fight within the Missouri GOP. I understand that he has until 5:00 today to bow ou on his own. |
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Posted: 8/21/2012 5:05:26 PM
[Last Edit: 8/21/2012 5:08:44 PM by cyborg543]
Originally Posted By badfish274:
Originally Posted By dhmjr40:
Originally Posted By Strongbow:
Originally Posted By leatherpuke:
Originally Posted By distributor_of_pain:
I can't think of anything that infuriates me more than hearing someone tell another person that they should have to give birth to their rapists baby. I can't think of anything that infuriates me more than someone suggesting that one persons life is worth more or less than another person simply because of how they were concieved. What if it's a 14 year old kid who was raped? This is not a black and white world, and sometimes, all your choices are bad. In such cases, I want as little government as possible telling me what is "best" for me and mine. Still an innocent life being snuffed out regardless. I've gone back and forth on the issue and I've finally settled on, bottom line, it's a life. Doesn't matter. No one's opinion matters, either way. A majority of women - a vast majority of women - will never be okay with being essentially forced to take a rapist's baby to term. Thats just the way things are. The prospect of their entire life being altered against their will and then being required to just go along with it does not settle well with the average woman. In fact, it terrifies her. Thats the reality. And the upshot is anyone who tries to convince anyone otherwise will be swiftly excoriated by a willing media. +100000 If a woman is raped and gets pregnant from it, what is the best solution? If you guys think "force her to carry the rapist's baby to term" is an actual workable solution, you have rocks in your head. I hate abortion with a passion, but there are circumstances where it has to be accepted, both from a moral standpoint and from a political standpoint. Social conservatives are just plain old stupid. They are just simply unable to gather facts and perform logic. Their solutions are always just as stubbornly unworkable as the average college socialist. For example, if I was running things, I would make condoms available free of charge to everyone who wanted one, no questions asked. Each $1 condom would save society thousands of dollars of medical costs and welfare costs. But social conservatives are in a twist because they teach sex educations in school. Not only do they not want free condoms, they don't even want the kids to know what contraception is at all. Because in their zero-cycles -of-logic way of thinking, that will keep high school kids fom having sex and from being immoral. This is what happens when emotion based theories of "what should be" are substituted for reality. This fairytale land of moral purity is not going to happen because a bunch of morons pass moron laws. Just like the way socialists picture a happy "fair" society being run by a benevolent government, and the engines of industry run full thottle in the absence of any profit motive. In theory, theory works great. In reality, it sucks.  |
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Posted: 8/21/2012 5:13:19 PM
Originally Posted By JAD762:
I understand that he has until 5:00 today to bow ou on his own. Eastern time. Deadline just passed. |
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badfish274
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Posted: 8/21/2012 5:19:23 PM
Originally Posted By midmo:
Originally Posted By JAD762:
I understand that he has until 5:00 today to bow ou on his own. Eastern time. Deadline just passed. Nope. Central time. |
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1Andy2
Grand Wizard of the Human Supremacist Movement
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Posted: 8/21/2012 5:23:01 PM
Originally Posted By mcornell:
Originally Posted By Strongbow:
This is one of the things I do not understand about the abortion debate. What if it's a 14 year old kid who was raped? This is not a black and white world, and sometimes, all your choices are bad. In such cases, I want as little government as possible telling me what is "best" for me and mine. If a fetus/child is a person, then having an abortion is murder. If a fetus/child is not a person, then abortion is not murder (and there would not seem to be any moral basis to outlaw it). Would you allow a parent to kill a 5 year old child because the child was conceived in a rape? If you believe that abortion is wrong because it is murder, why is killing an unborn child conceived by rape different than killing a "born" child conceived by rape? Totally black and white? How about the one raped is too young to safely bring a baby to term? Now which life has the greater right? Even in the case of women who probably can safely carry a baby to term (no guarantees tho), you're still making an arbitrary judgement on whose rights matter more. Sure doesn't seem black and white to me. |
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1Andy2
Grand Wizard of the Human Supremacist Movement
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Joined: Jul 2004 TX, USA
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Posted: 8/21/2012 5:26:12 PM
Originally Posted By cyborg543:
Originally Posted By badfish274:
Originally Posted By dhmjr40:
Originally Posted By Strongbow:
Originally Posted By leatherpuke:
Originally Posted By distributor_of_pain:
I can't think of anything that infuriates me more than hearing someone tell another person that they should have to give birth to their rapists baby. I can't think of anything that infuriates me more than someone suggesting that one persons life is worth more or less than another person simply because of how they were concieved. What if it's a 14 year old kid who was raped? This is not a black and white world, and sometimes, all your choices are bad. In such cases, I want as little government as possible telling me what is "best" for me and mine. Still an innocent life being snuffed out regardless. I've gone back and forth on the issue and I've finally settled on, bottom line, it's a life. Doesn't matter. No one's opinion matters, either way. A majority of women - a vast majority of women - will never be okay with being essentially forced to take a rapist's baby to term. Thats just the way things are. The prospect of their entire life being altered against their will and then being required to just go along with it does not settle well with the average woman. In fact, it terrifies her. Thats the reality. And the upshot is anyone who tries to convince anyone otherwise will be swiftly excoriated by a willing media. +100000 If a woman is raped and gets pregnant from it, what is the best solution? If you guys think "force her to carry the rapist's baby to term" is an actual workable solution, you have rocks in your head. I hate abortion with a passion, but there are circumstances where it has to be accepted, both from a moral standpoint and from a political standpoint. Social conservatives are just plain old stupid. They are just simply unable to gather facts and perform logic. Their solutions are always just as stubbornly unworkable as the average college socialist. For example, if I was running things, I would make condoms available free of charge to everyone who wanted one, no questions asked. Each $1 condom would save society thousands of dollars of medical costs and welfare costs. But social conservatives are in a twist because they teach sex educations in school. Not only do they not want free condoms, they don't even want the kids to know what contraception is at all. Because in their zero-cycles -of-logic way of thinking, that will keep high school kids fom having sex and from being immoral. This is what happens when emotion based theories of "what should be" are substituted for reality. This fairytale land of moral purity is not going to happen because a bunch of morons pass moron laws. Just like the way socialists picture a happy "fair" society being run by a benevolent government, and the engines of industry run full thottle in the absence of any profit motive. In theory, theory works great. In reality, it sucks. In reality, I think a ban on abortions in rape cases will just lead to a bunch of illegal abortions. |
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Posted: 8/21/2012 5:35:39 PM
Originally Posted By badfish274:
Originally Posted By midmo:
Originally Posted By JAD762:
I understand that he has until 5:00 today to bow ou on his own. Eastern time. Deadline just passed. Nope. Central time. Sure 'nuff. Thanks for the correction. |
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Steve_T_M
Here Toy Go
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Posted: 8/21/2012 5:57:47 PM
Originally Posted By mcornell: Originally Posted By Strongbow: This is one of the things I do not understand about the abortion debate.
What if it's a 14 year old kid who was raped? This is not a black and white world, and sometimes, all your choices are bad. In such cases, I want as little government as possible telling me what is "best" for me and mine. If a fetus/child is a person, then having an abortion is murder. If a fetus/child is not a person, then abortion is not murder (and there would not seem to be any moral basis to outlaw it).
Would you allow a parent to kill a 5 year old child because the child was conceived in a rape?
If you believe that abortion is wrong because it is murder, why is killing an unborn child conceived by rape different than killing a "born" child conceived by rape?
That's because it's not a black-and-white issue, however much ideologues want it to be. Once you make a single exception to the "abortion is murder" rule, whether for rape, danger to the mother, birth defect, whatever, you've conceded that there is more to the issue than the life of of the child/fetus/unborn. |
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mcornell
Put Not Your Faith in Princes
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Posted: 8/21/2012 6:01:06 PM
[Last Edit: 8/21/2012 6:02:42 PM by mcornell]
Originally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By mcornell: Originally Posted By Strongbow: This is one of the things I do not understand about the abortion debate.
What if it's a 14 year old kid who was raped? This is not a black and white world, and sometimes, all your choices are bad. In such cases, I want as little government as possible telling me what is "best" for me and mine. If a fetus/child is a person, then having an abortion is murder. If a fetus/child is not a person, then abortion is not murder (and there would not seem to be any moral basis to outlaw it).
Would you allow a parent to kill a 5 year old child because the child was conceived in a rape?
If you believe that abortion is wrong because it is murder, why is killing an unborn child conceived by rape different than killing a "born" child conceived by rape?
Totally black and white? How about the one raped is too young to safely bring a baby to term? Now which life has the greater right? Even in the case of women who probably can safely carry a baby to term (no guarantees tho), you're still making an arbitrary judgement on whose rights matter more. Sure doesn't seem black and white to me. One being too young to bring a baby to term has nothing to do with the fact that the pregnancy was the result of a rape. That is a distraction from the question of whether or not there is a moral distinction between aborting a fetus/child that is the product of rape and aborting the fetus/child that is the product of consensual sex. The safety of the mother is a different issue.
I do not have an answer to the question "when does a fetus become a person"? I however, I know that whenever that occurs, abortion is murder. There are times when murder is justified. Self-Defense, Defense of Others, National security, capital punishment, etc.... So, the answer to your question about being too young to carry a baby to term depends on your answer to the question when is it OK to murder the child to save the mother. An ugly question for sure. However, the fact that the child may be the result of a rape does not change the analysis.
The question in red is what Rep. Dumbass managed to trip over and stick his head up is rectum. The answer to that question is bedeviling (for the reasons BadFish274 has so artfully articulated), but is one that deserves an honest answer.
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Posted: 8/21/2012 6:02:04 PM
[Last Edit: 8/21/2012 6:03:12 PM by Josh]
Originally Posted By Strongbow:
Precisely. Any point you pick is arbitrary, really. Might as well pick a time and go with it. 24 weeks is a good point, since most fetuses are cviable at that point. OTOH, conception isn't a good point since over 70% of fertilized eggs never result in a live birth. If 24 weeks is too late, then pick another. It'll be arbitrary, whatever it is. Heartbeat and brainwaves make sense from a medical perspective, it's how we determine life at the other end –– that's not 20 or 24 weeks. It's not conception, but it's not 20 or 24 weeks. My point is that we actually do have a medical definition for life. |
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Jarhead08
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Posted: 8/21/2012 6:07:01 PM
Originally Posted By Andrew7934: Originally Posted By Jarhead08: Originally Posted By midmo: I've heard rumblings of an organized Brunner write in campaign. Originally Posted By LIINTLICKR: We need to rally around Akin at this point. All the crying and whining is pointless. He is a solid Conservative who happened to stick his size 12 directly into his mouth. He apologized, end of story. This happens everyday for the Democrats, yet narry a peep about any of them ever "stepping down" for the good of their party. In November the choice will be: An Imperfect Conservative - Todd Akin vs. Claire The Socialist Who will Missouri choose? I have faith in them. No we don't, and I won't. He let his stupidity show in making those remarks in the first place. Now, he's cementing the disdain of any conservatives who remained unconvinced by refusing to step down when it's obviously the only logical choice for the party to gain any traction. I don't want McCaskill back in office any more than anyone - I recognize the importance of retaking the Senate. But this bozo is actively working against us. Rally around him? I think not. I'm going to do everything I can do to see him removed from the candidacy. Today's not the only deadline. FTA A write in wont work if you want to help call the Missouri Republican Party at (573) 636-3146 or email info@mogop.org and let them know that Brunner is the man to replace Akin. Yeah I have the number I'm on the local committee I was passing on what I've heard .......but thanks. |
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mcornell
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Posted: 8/21/2012 6:09:02 PM
Originally Posted By Steve_T_M: This is the part I don't get. If abortion is not murder, then why is it wrong? Why is this not a black-and-white issue?
Originally Posted By mcornell: Originally Posted By Strongbow: This is one of the things I do not understand about the abortion debate.
What if it's a 14 year old kid who was raped? This is not a black and white world, and sometimes, all your choices are bad. In such cases, I want as little government as possible telling me what is "best" for me and mine. If a fetus/child is a person, then having an abortion is murder. If a fetus/child is not a person, then abortion is not murder (and there would not seem to be any moral basis to outlaw it).
Would you allow a parent to kill a 5 year old child because the child was conceived in a rape?
If you believe that abortion is wrong because it is murder, why is killing an unborn child conceived by rape different than killing a "born" child conceived by rape?
That's because it's not a black-and-white issue, however much ideologues want it to be. Once you make a single exception to the "abortion is murder" rule, whether for rape, danger to the mother, birth defect, whatever, you've conceded that there is more to the issue than the life of of the child/fetus/unborn. There are reasons why killing may be legal in some circumstances. The State can kill people as part of capital punishment. I can understand allowing abortion to protect the life of the mother or if the pregnancy is not viable, but outlawing abortion in general (since self-defense and defense of others are legitimate reasons to kill someone).
But unless abortion is killing a "person", it should not be illegal.
Once again, I was once comfortably pro-choice until I had children. Now I am deeply conflicted over this issue. |
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Mullah_Atari
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Posted: 8/21/2012 6:18:46 PM
Originally Posted By mcornell: When somebody says "life begins at conception" in the context of abortion, they're saying that killing literally two cells is murder.Originally Posted By Steve_T_M: This is the part I don't get. If abortion is not murder, then why is it wrong? Why is this not a black-and-white issue?
Originally Posted By mcornell: Originally Posted By Strongbow: This is one of the things I do not understand about the abortion debate.
What if it's a 14 year old kid who was raped? This is not a black and white world, and sometimes, all your choices are bad. In such cases, I want as little government as possible telling me what is "best" for me and mine. If a fetus/child is a person, then having an abortion is murder. If a fetus/child is not a person, then abortion is not murder (and there would not seem to be any moral basis to outlaw it).
Would you allow a parent to kill a 5 year old child because the child was conceived in a rape?
If you believe that abortion is wrong because it is murder, why is killing an unborn child conceived by rape different than killing a "born" child conceived by rape?
That's because it's not a black-and-white issue, however much ideologues want it to be. Once you make a single exception to the "abortion is murder" rule, whether for rape, danger to the mother, birth defect, whatever, you've conceded that there is more to the issue than the life of of the child/fetus/unborn. There are reasons why killing may be legal in some circumstances. The State can kill people as part of capital punishment. I can understand allowing abortion to protect the life of the mother or if the pregnancy is not viable, but outlawing abortion in general (since self-defense and defense of others are legitimate reasons to kill someone).
But unless abortion is killing a "person", it should not be illegal.
Once again, I was once comfortably pro-choice until I had children. Now I am deeply conflicted over this issue. |
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Kilroytheknifesnob
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Posted: 8/21/2012 6:28:27 PM
Why are we talking about what he said about rape instead of our bloated bureaucracy in Washington, dysfunctional foreign policy, and jacked up tax code? You guys are too quick to let the media play you. Focus on the real issues, not interview gaffes and shoe choices. Let's talk about Todd Akin's position on taxes, shall we?
One solution to our tax problem which I strongly support is the FairTax (HR 25) of which I am a co-sponsor. Under this legislation, taxpayers and businesses wouldn’t pay corporate and individual income taxes, payroll taxes, self-employment taxes, capital gains taxes, death taxes and gift taxes. The FairTax would replace the previous list of taxes with a revenue-neutral national sales tax on all new products you buy. Business-to-business transactions and used products (which have already been taxed) would not be subject to the sales tax.
I believe that a tax system where only half the people pay taxes creates incentives for one group to expand government at the expense of another. We need a system where more people would pay some taxes and, thus, have "skin in the game." |
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Posted: 8/21/2012 6:30:37 PM
Originally Posted By A_G:
Originally Posted By C-4:
Originally Posted By fxntime:
He's not really lying, there is some truth to what he says. Even saying that however, is totally non PC. +1 Severe stress can cause a disruption in the normal cycle. If a woman presents to a hospital immediately after the rape, she can receive drugs that will prevent pregnancy in the first place. The point where it gets politically sticky is when the 14 y/o teenager presents at 4 months of pregnancy with her stepfather being the rapist. Now what? Not exactly a reliable "contraceptive". Not always possible. There is also the probability that some fucking idiot R will say that a morning after pill is akin to abortion just as much as an actual abortion. Yes, I know you are a physician. There is always the possibility that the Welfare Mom has her "financial 5", doesn't want any more, so further issues are automatic "rape". |
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