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juslearnin
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Posted: 8/14/2012 1:51:08 AM
[Last Edit: 8/14/2012 2:44:01 AM by juslearnin]
How is that for a title?

I was at the county health dept today, getting some shots for overseas travel.

I spent an hour there, waiting and watching the parade of young girls coming through with their little kids, and I started to see what is going on in our country very clearly.

You look around on the walls and read the posters, "Made less than $49,000 last year? You can get $5000 back in "taxes"", "How to get food stamps", A huge mural on the "United Nations Rights of the Child". Etc.

I realized that the sexual revolution has told all these teenagers that they need to go and have sex with who ever they want in order to be "free". It told them that those words, "commitment", and "marriage" were enslaving them, and keeping them from being happy.

Pretty soon they are pregnant, +/- a few STDs.

What is the number one condition associated with poverty? Being a single mother.

Of course, their 19 year old boyfriend who is unemployed is not going to support them, so they go into "the system". They go on food stamps, and welfare, and start to cycle through the government programs.

When you deal with the employees there, the majority just piss you off because they are so patronizing. Why is that? Well because all day they deal with young kids who at best finished high school, and don't know how to think for or care for themselves. They have been absorbed into the welfare, "I don't think for myself, give me some Obama money" attitude. They can't even get it together enough to bring in their ID card for the kids' medicaid, and then sit there and tell the clerk, "I don't know where it is, or if I renewed it or not, aren't you going to take care of my kid?" How could you help from becoming patronizing/ paternalistic if that is who you deal with every day?

It used to be that there was this thing called a "family". You grew up with a "mom" and a "dad". They were committed to something called a "marriage", which lasted a lifetime. They worked hard to give you a good life, and also to teach you common sense. You grew up, and took on this thing called, "responsibility". You got something called a "job", and you became what they used to call a "productive member of society".

Now your parents divorce when you are a kid. They do this because they are trying be more "fulfilled" in their lives, and because "commitment" is some sort of arcane concept. They shuffle you back and forth between them, using you to get even with each other, and buying you stuff so you love them even though they left. You don't learn about these things called, "commitment", and "responsibility", instead you learn about "rights", and "entitlements", and how "it was your mom's fault the marriage didn't work."

Then you go out and have sex with lots of folks so you can be "free" and "fulfilled", because that is what life is really about. Don't even think about "marriage", or "monogomy", those are ancient puritan concepts designed to enslave you, and keep you from being happy.

This ultimately leads you into pregnancy and dependence on the system.

Why is it that poverty in America has been increasing every year?

No amount of money thrown at the problem is going to fix it. The only real solution is rebuilding that family, and the concepts of responsibility, commitment, and self sacrifice.

I don't have much hope of those ideas making a come back in our society these days, as we are too busy enjoying the "freedom" that the 1960s gave us, as our nation slowly becomes enslaved to its' government.


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Justa_TXguy
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Posted: 8/14/2012 1:53:08 AM
Why would you be using county resources instead of paying at your private physician?

Also, women's suffrage was the first step.

"Might go for a little zombie pie but im still gonna have to say no to fat chicks." -- Originally Posted By Krink
RustedAce
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Posted: 8/14/2012 1:53:41 AM
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markfall
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Posted: 8/14/2012 1:54:54 AM
All I heard was "I hate sex"!



The First Amendment on this forum means the right to be christian in any manner you see fit.

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callahan318
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Posted: 8/14/2012 1:56:22 AM
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:
Why would you be using county resources instead of paying at your private physician?

Also, women's suffrage was the first step.



Good question.

However, his conclusion is valid.

I say this as a father, in a stable marriage?
My metal horsey!

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juslearnin
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Posted: 8/14/2012 1:57:40 AM
[Last Edit: 8/14/2012 2:16:43 AM by juslearnin]
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:
Why would you be using county resources instead of paying at your private physician?

Also, women's suffrage was the first step.



The health department happens to be where the local "travel medicine clinic" is.

Also, because I pay a little over $12,000 a year right now for a major medical policy, combined with a health savings account.

It cost me $750 out of my MSA for immunizations today at the health department for myself and my family, and I am sure it would have cost significantly more at my mythical "private physicians office". I am what you call an "educated health care consumer" because I am paying for it, and I figured I would get a little "bang for my buck" for the many thousands of dollars I paid in taxes last year.
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DuraToTheMax
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:01:34 AM
No it wasn't.

The Federal Reserve Act was, followed by the wonderfully regressive 18th amendment.
juslearnin
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:01:50 AM
Originally Posted By markfall:
All I heard was "I hate sex"!





I don't hate sex, I actually really enjoy it- with my wife, and I hope that some day my kids do the same thing with their spouses, instead of getting pregnant at age 19 trying to find someone who says they "love" them.
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-GunNutJuell-
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:05:01 AM
Originally Posted By markfall:
All I heard was "I hate sex"!





We know.
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:16:15 AM
Having a modern attitude about sexuality isn't an avenue to state dependency. The fact that these entitlement programs exists is what promotes this behavior, not living in a sex positive society. Teaching kids about personal responsibility is key, especially when it comes to their sex lives.

Teenagers are going to have sex, this is not a new phenomenon. Better education about birth control and safe sex practices will go further in combating the social ills of teenage pregnancy then telling kids to keep it in their pants until marriage. (Which, if you are getting an advanced degree, means waiting until your 25 or older, it's unreasonable for society to expect anyone to be celibate that long)
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:16:19 AM
Originally Posted By markfall:
All I heard was "I hate sex"!





Personally, I love sex .... but it does have consequences. Did you think you lived in a consequence free world?

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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:19:08 AM
What is really sad, is when you find out that the gentleman waiting for them in the car out in the parking lot is not their husband, or boyfriend, but their drug dealer.
A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends on the character of the user. Character in the long run is th decisive factor in the life of an individual and of nations alike -TR 26thPOTUS CMO2001
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:23:29 AM
[Last Edit: 8/14/2012 2:24:48 AM by Dan_Cooper]
Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist:
Having a modern attitude about sexuality isn't an avenue to state dependency. The fact that these entitlement programs exists is what promotes this behavior, not living in a sex positive society. Teaching kids about personal responsibility is key, especially when it comes to their sex lives.

Teenagers are going to have sex, this is not a new phenomenon. Better education about birth control and safe sex practices will go further in combating the social ills of teenage pregnancy then telling kids to keep it in their pants until marriage. (Which, if you are getting an advanced degree, means waiting until your 25 or older, it's unreasonable for society to expect anyone to be celibate that long)


This has always struck me as something of a cop out. Certainly, some teenagers are going to have sex. But, obviously the rate of teen sexual activity has varied over the years. Since we know that teenagers have been teenagers for at least the last hundred (or thousand, or ten thousand) years, I believe we can safely assume that on average, today's teenagers are genetically no different that yesterday's teenagers, therefore something else must have changed. In other words, culture does have an impact on teen sexuality (who would have thunk it?).



2minkey
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:27:13 AM
there's always the possibility that you simply live among dirtbutts. and there will always be a percentage of them in any society. next time, get your shots at a private practice and spare yourself contact with the great unwashed.

Snowleopard
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:29:13 AM
Nice opinion.......it falls right in line of why, if asked, I would support gay marriages. Not necessarily because for them but because I see "the definition of marriage is between a man and a woman" as a war against singles as well. This opinion rather verifies that.

One may not recognize it but it is true that some of us just don't have the gene to seek a mate. It's not there. The insistence that we just must is constantly in our face and could probably get as irritating as those who see the gay expression as constantly in their face.

I did not see Playboy as something that told me to flaunt my breasts to the world but rather, to be independent, to not be tied to others for support. Stand on my own two feet and make my own decisions.

If we see Hefner and Playboy as an identification of the sexual revolution, then where do these single mothers fit into that picture? They don't because for whatever reason, the magazine rarely shows, rarely promotes women who come with baggage.
___________________________________________________________________________________
(As Purdey hands Gambit her bra to use as a slingshot, "Why didn't you burn this with the rest of the liberated women?"
"I didn't need to; I knew I was already liberated."––Purdey, (w,stte), The New Avengers, "Dirtier by the Dozen")
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:32:30 AM
Originally Posted By Snowleopard:
Nice opinion.......it falls right in line of why, if asked, I would support gay marriages. Not necessarily because for them but because I see "the definition of marriage is between a man and a woman" as a war against singles as well. This opinion rather verifies that.

One may not recognize it but it is true that some of us just don't have the gene to seek a mate. It's not there. The insistence that we just must is constantly in our face and could probably get as irritating as those who see the gay expression as constantly in their face.

I did not see Playboy as something that told me to flaunt my breasts to the world but rather, to be independent, to not be tied to others for support. Stand on my own two feet and make my own decisions.

If we see Hefner and Playboy as an identification of the sexual revolution, then where do these single mothers fit into that picture? They don't because for whatever reason, the magazine rarely shows, rarely promotes women who come with baggage.
___________________________________________________________________________________
(As Purdey hands Gambit her bra to use as a slingshot, "Why didn't you burn this with the rest of the liberated women?"
"I didn't need to; I knew I was already liberated."––Purdey, (w,stte), The New Avengers, "Dirtier by the Dozen")


I don't know what is is about your posts but I try reading and then rereading them and I'm never really sure that I understand what you're saying.

Anyone else or is it just me?
"Might go for a little zombie pie but im still gonna have to say no to fat chicks." -- Originally Posted By Krink
JosieWales
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:32:50 AM
Originally Posted By juslearnin:
How is that for a title?

I was at the county health dept today, getting some shots for overseas travel.

I spent an hour there, waiting and watching the parade of young girls coming through with their little kids, and I started to see what is going on in our country very clearly.

You look around on the walls and read the posters, "Made less than $49,000 last year? You can get $5000 back in "taxes"", "How to get food stamps", A huge mural on the "United Nations Rights of the Child". Etc.

I realized that the sexual revolution has told all these teenagers that they need to go and have sex with who ever they want in order to be "free". It told them that those words, "commitment", and "marriage" were enslaving them, and keeping them from being happy.

Pretty soon they are pregnant, +/- a few STDs.

What is the number one condition associated with poverty? Being a single mother.

Of course, their 19 year old boyfriend who is unemployed is not going to support them, so they go into "the system". They go on food stamps, and welfare, and start to cycle through the government programs.

When you deal with the employees there, the majority just piss you off because they are so patronizing. Why is that? Well because all day they deal with young kids who at best finished high school, and don't know how to think for or care for themselves. They have been absorbed into the welfare, "I don't think for myself, give me some Obama money" attitude. They can't even get it together enough to bring in their ID card for the kids' medicaid, and then sit there and tell the clerk, "I don't know where it is, or if I renewed it or not, aren't you going to take care of my kid?" How could you help from becoming patronizing/ paternalistic if that is who you deal with every day?

It used to be that there was this thing called a "family". You grew up with a "mom" and a "dad". They were committed to something called a "marriage", which lasted a lifetime. They worked hard to give you a good life, and also to teach you common sense. You grew up, and took on this thing called, "responsibility". You got something called a "job", and you became what they used to call a "productive member of society".

Now your parents divorce when you are a kid. They do this because they are trying be more "fulfilled" in their lives, and because "commitment" is some sort of arcane concept. They shuffle you back and forth between them, using you to get even with each other, and buying you stuff so you love them even though they left. You don't learn about these things called, "commitment", and "responsibility", instead you learn about "rights", and "entitlements", and how "it was your mom's fault the marriage didn't work."

Then you go out and have sex with lots of folks so you can be "free" and "fulfilled", because that is what life is really about. Which ultimately leads you into pregnancy and dependence on the system.

Why is it that poverty in America has been increasing every year?

No amount of money thrown at the problem is going to fix it. The only real solution is rebuilding that family, and the concepts of responsibility, commitment, and self sacrifice.

I don't have much hope of those ideas making a come back in our society these days, as we are too busy enjoying the "freedom" that the 1960s gave us, as our nation slowly becomes enslaved to its' government.




Yep. Good Post!

"Never give Up-Never Quit-"
juslearnin
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:34:01 AM
[Last Edit: 8/14/2012 2:38:20 AM by juslearnin]
Wow! Delayed double tap.
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:34:04 AM
OP hates blowjobs.

Get the tar & feathers.
You know, I've been here for aqua-bumpers, shower cookies, goose fuckers, doll shows, fire on airplanes, and the attempted theft of an AR by Shitty McBritches, and this post is the one that's finally made me say, "This place is getting weird." -53
ApexAchilles
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:35:57 AM
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:
Why would you be using county resources instead of paying at your private physician?

Also, women's suffrage was the first step.



Nail, meet fucking hammer.
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:36:15 AM
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:
Originally Posted By Snowleopard:
Nice opinion.......it falls right in line of why, if asked, I would support gay marriages. Not necessarily because for them but because I see "the definition of marriage is between a man and a woman" as a war against singles as well. This opinion rather verifies that.

One may not recognize it but it is true that some of us just don't have the gene to seek a mate. It's not there. The insistence that we just must is constantly in our face and could probably get as irritating as those who see the gay expression as constantly in their face.

I did not see Playboy as something that told me to flaunt my breasts to the world but rather, to be independent, to not be tied to others for support. Stand on my own two feet and make my own decisions.

If we see Hefner and Playboy as an identification of the sexual revolution, then where do these single mothers fit into that picture? They don't because for whatever reason, the magazine rarely shows, rarely promotes women who come with baggage.
___________________________________________________________________________________
(As Purdey hands Gambit her bra to use as a slingshot, "Why didn't you burn this with the rest of the liberated women?"
"I didn't need to; I knew I was already liberated."––Purdey, (w,stte), The New Avengers, "Dirtier by the Dozen")


I don't know what is is about your posts but I try reading and then rereading them and I'm never really sure that I understand what you're saying.

Anyone else or is it just me?



Poster uses really awkward sentence structure. Took a couple of passes for me to figure it out and I'm not 100% sure I was completely successful.




juslearnin
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:36:38 AM
[Last Edit: 8/14/2012 2:54:50 AM by juslearnin]
My job has been dealing with what you call the "unwashed" for the last 25 years (try working in EMS). It doesn't bother me a bit to work with homeless alcoholics or pregnant teens- I do this every day at work. I treat them with the respect and dignity they deserve as human beings even when their behavior doesn't warrant it. I don't think of them as "dirtbutts", but human beings.

What I saw today was a great picture of how this all plays out in the big picture, and how the change in mindset, and world view that happened in the 1960s have determined the course that our country is taking.

Our society has been sold a bill of goods, and swallowed it hook, line and sinker, and it is sad to see our becoming enslaved in the pursuit of "freedom".
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RustedAce
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:36:53 AM
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

I don't know what is is about your posts but I try reading and then rereading them and I'm never really sure that I understand what you're saying.

Anyone else or is it just me?


Just read them in the voice of Harry S. Plinkett and they make sense.
My post brings a mystical magical life lesson.......To youuuuuuuuuuuu!

YOU'RE WELCOME!
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:37:44 AM
Originally Posted By Snowleopard:
Nice opinion.......it falls right in line of why, if asked, I would support gay marriages. Not necessarily because for them but because I see "the definition of marriage is between a man and a woman" as a war against singles as well. This opinion rather verifies that.


___________________________________________________________________________________
(As Purdey hands Gambit her bra to use as a slingshot, "Why didn't you burn this with the rest of the liberated women?"
"I didn't need to; I knew I was already liberated."––Purdey, (w,stte), The New Avengers, "Dirtier by the Dozen")


So gay men are becoming single mothers and ending up in poverty?
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:37:52 AM
Originally Posted By Dan_Cooper:
Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist:
Having a modern attitude about sexuality isn't an avenue to state dependency. The fact that these entitlement programs exists is what promotes this behavior, not living in a sex positive society. Teaching kids about personal responsibility is key, especially when it comes to their sex lives.

Teenagers are going to have sex, this is not a new phenomenon. Better education about birth control and safe sex practices will go further in combating the social ills of teenage pregnancy then telling kids to keep it in their pants until marriage. (Which, if you are getting an advanced degree, means waiting until your 25 or older, it's unreasonable for society to expect anyone to be celibate that long)


This has always struck me as something of a cop out. Certainly, some teenagers are going to have sex. But, obviously the rate of teen sexual activity has varied over the years. Since we know that teenagers have been teenagers for at least the last hundred (or thousand, or ten thousand) years, I believe we can safely assume that on average, today's teenagers are genetically no different that yesterday's teenagers, therefore something else must have changed. In other words, culture does have an impact on teen sexuality (who would have thunk it?).






Invariably it does, but at least in my experience of going to three different high schools (totally anecdotal so take it for what it's worth) in three different states, there is no correlation between level of sexual activity and odds of unplanned pregnancy. In fact, the people who were having the most sex tended to be the smartest about it and (especially the case in Iowa), it was the super serious couples who engaged in unplanned post 'I love you' coitus that wound up either being teenage moms or having $500 trips to planned parenthood.

I don't recall the statistics exactly but I do know that rates of teen pregnancy are down significantly since the 1980s, with the peak being (iirc) in 1981.

To speak to the point of it being a cop out, I disagree, people are waiting far longer to get married then they did at mid-century which makes comparisons as to sexual activity when getting married at 19 or 20 didn't raise an eye brow difficult at best.
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:37:59 AM
Originally Posted By RustedAce:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

I don't know what is is about your posts but I try reading and then rereading them and I'm never really sure that I understand what you're saying.

Anyone else or is it just me?


Just read them in the voice of Harry S. Plinkett and they make sense.


You want some pizza rolls....?




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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:39:45 AM
Originally Posted By Towely:
Originally Posted By Snowleopard:
Nice opinion.......it falls right in line of why, if asked, I would support gay marriages. Not necessarily because for them but because I see "the definition of marriage is between a man and a woman" as a war against singles as well. This opinion rather verifies that.


___________________________________________________________________________________


So gay men are becoming single mothers and ending up in poverty?


Not necessarily.

Rather,

"The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend."
_____________________________________________________________________________
("Captain, there is an old saying.....,"––opposer to the group that holds Federation hostages, (w,stte), ST:TNG "Legacy")
Justa_TXguy
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:41:30 AM
Originally Posted By RustedAce:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:

I don't know what is is about your posts but I try reading and then rereading them and I'm never really sure that I understand what you're saying.

Anyone else or is it just me?


Just read them in the voice of Harry S. Plinkett and they make sense.


That actually works.
"Might go for a little zombie pie but im still gonna have to say no to fat chicks." -- Originally Posted By Krink
2minkey
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:42:02 AM
Originally Posted By juslearnin:

Our society has been sold a bill of goods.


so, is it that we're dupes, or victims? take your pick. either one sounds like an excuse.



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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:42:47 AM
Originally Posted By Snowleopard:
Originally Posted By Towely:
Originally Posted By Snowleopard:
Nice opinion.......it falls right in line of why, if asked, I would support gay marriages. Not necessarily because for them but because I see "the definition of marriage is between a man and a woman" as a war against singles as well. This opinion rather verifies that.


___________________________________________________________________________________


So gay men are becoming single mothers and ending up in poverty?


Not necessarily.

Rather,

"The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend."
_____________________________________________________________________________
("Captain, there is an old saying.....,"––opposer to the group that holds Federation hostages, (w,stte), ST:TNG "Legacy")


Makes a little more sense when you put it that way. I'm staring at the bottom of my fifth bottle of beer so a lot of 747's have been heard flying over my head tonight.
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:43:57 AM
Not sure its the first step but its part of one because of the lack of expected responsibility.

Sexual revolution is great, go conjugate yourselves into multiple child parenthood AS LONG AS I DONT HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.

That is the key, responsibility. Before big nanny gov welfare shit people had no choice but to be responsible or suffer for it, now we get a little of both..
People are irresponsible and they suffer while we pay for it and we suffer...
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:44:56 AM
theres no sexual revolution going on at my house...


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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:45:18 AM
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:
Why would you be using county resources instead of paying at your private physician?

Also, women's suffrage was the first step.



Well, if you want to go that far back, it started when you didn't have to be a land owner to vote...
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:45:23 AM
Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist:
Originally Posted By Dan_Cooper:
Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist:
Having a modern attitude about sexuality isn't an avenue to state dependency. The fact that these entitlement programs exists is what promotes this behavior, not living in a sex positive society. Teaching kids about personal responsibility is key, especially when it comes to their sex lives.

Teenagers are going to have sex, this is not a new phenomenon. Better education about birth control and safe sex practices will go further in combating the social ills of teenage pregnancy then telling kids to keep it in their pants until marriage. (Which, if you are getting an advanced degree, means waiting until your 25 or older, it's unreasonable for society to expect anyone to be celibate that long)


This has always struck me as something of a cop out. Certainly, some teenagers are going to have sex. But, obviously the rate of teen sexual activity has varied over the years. Since we know that teenagers have been teenagers for at least the last hundred (or thousand, or ten thousand) years, I believe we can safely assume that on average, today's teenagers are genetically no different that yesterday's teenagers, therefore something else must have changed. In other words, culture does have an impact on teen sexuality (who would have thunk it?).






Invariably it does, but at least in my experience of going to three different high schools (totally anecdotal so take it for what it's worth) in three different states, there is no correlation between level of sexual activity and odds of unplanned pregnancy. In fact, the people who were having the most sex tended to be the smartest about it and (especially the case in Iowa), it was the super serious couples who engaged in unplanned post 'I love you' coitus that wound up either being teenage moms or having $500 trips to planned parenthood.

I don't recall the statistics exactly but I do know that rates of teen pregnancy are down significantly since the 1980s, with the peak being (iirc) in 1981.

To speak to the point of it being a cop out, I disagree, people are waiting far longer to get married then they did at mid-century which makes comparisons as to sexual activity when getting married at 19 or 20 didn't raise an eye brow difficult at best.


I don't believe that your anecdotal evidence extrapolates to the rest of the world. Generally studies find a pretty strong correlation between rates of teenage sexual activity and teen pregnancy and STDs, most especially amongst poorer demographics (which are also the most at risk for a lot of other reasons).

Look, personally I don't see any big issue with older teens and sex. But, in my experience (which I also admit might not extrapolate to the rest of the world), most 16 year olds and younger are not mature enough for the baggage and consequences that go along with sex. And fact of the matter is, you can also show that today's teens are maturing emotionally latter than teens of earlier generations that did marry younger. The 30 year old living at home with mom and dad is something most of us have witnessed these days. What do you thing these people were like at 16?



edb66
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:45:42 AM
Originally Posted By Snowleopard:
Nice opinion.......it falls right in line of why, if asked, I would support gay marriages. Not necessarily because for them but because I see "the definition of marriage is between a man and a woman" as a war against singles as well. This opinion rather verifies that.

One may not recognize it but it is true that some of us just don't have the gene to seek a mate. It's not there. The insistence that we just must is constantly in our face and could probably get as irritating as those who see the gay expression as constantly in their face.

I did not see Playboy as something that told me to flaunt my breasts to the world but rather, to be independent, to not be tied to others for support. Stand on my own two feet and make my own decisions.

If we see Hefner and Playboy as an identification of the sexual revolution, then where do these single mothers fit into that picture? They don't because for whatever reason, the magazine rarely shows, rarely promotes women who come with baggage.
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So, ya wanna get married?

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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:52:04 AM
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:56:44 AM
Originally Posted By juslearnin:
Originally Posted By markfall:
All I heard was "I hate sex"!





I don't hate sex, I actually really enjoy it- with my wife, and I hope that some day my kids do the same thing with their spouses, instead of getting pregnant at age 19 trying to find someone who says they "love" them.


Newsflash:

Your kids aren't gonna wait until marriage.


Deal with it.
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:58:10 AM
Originally Posted By edb66:
Originally Posted By Snowleopard:
Nice opinion.......it falls right in line of why, if asked, I would support gay marriages. Not necessarily because for them but because I see "the definition of marriage is between a man and a woman" as a war against singles as well. This opinion rather verifies that.

One may not recognize it but it is true that some of us just don't have the gene to seek a mate. It's not there. The insistence that we just must is constantly in our face and could probably get as irritating as those who see the gay expression as constantly in their face.

I did not see Playboy as something that told me to flaunt my breasts to the world but rather, to be independent, to not be tied to others for support. Stand on my own two feet and make my own decisions.

If we see Hefner and Playboy as an identification of the sexual revolution, then where do these single mothers fit into that picture? They don't because for whatever reason, the magazine rarely shows, rarely promotes women who come with baggage.
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So, ya wanna get married?



Not particularly. I look at relatives who have married twice, I listen to girlfriends who have gone through bitter divorces and I wonder what the point is.

And yet, people, the world seems to expect it. "Don't you want to be married?", "Doesn't Traci like boys?", "How can you live like this, have such attitudes, when someday, you will be living with someone else?" and so forth. The world seems to think it is the natural course of life for all and being one of those on the outside, it isn't for all.

Originally Posted By Dan_Cooper:............ The 30 year old living at home with mom and dad is something most of us have witnessed these days. What do you thing these people were like at 16?


This plays back into the lessons learned from Playboy. I got out of the Navy, I lived at home for a few months, got my own place in another town, and even though my father offered to pay for my grad school, I stopped asking him for money. I didn't like the feeling of it, of him supporting me like that, and he respected me for that (perhaps especially since my siblings were asking for loans). Now, he might not have been so proud if he knew where that motivation came from, but C'est La Vie.
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Posted: 8/14/2012 2:58:23 AM
[Last Edit: 8/14/2012 2:59:10 AM by ScurvyPete]
Originally Posted By Dan_Cooper:
Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist:
Having a modern attitude about sexuality isn't an avenue to state dependency. The fact that these entitlement programs exists is what promotes this behavior, not living in a sex positive society. Teaching kids about personal responsibility is key, especially when it comes to their sex lives.

Teenagers are going to have sex, this is not a new phenomenon. Better education about birth control and safe sex practices will go further in combating the social ills of teenage pregnancy then telling kids to keep it in their pants until marriage. (Which, if you are getting an advanced degree, means waiting until your 25 or older, it's unreasonable for society to expect anyone to be celibate that long)


This has always struck me as something of a cop out. Certainly, some teenagers are going to have sex. But, obviously the rate of teen sexual activity has varied over the years. Since we know that teenagers have been teenagers for at least the last hundred (or thousand, or ten thousand) years, I believe we can safely assume that on average, today's teenagers are genetically no different that yesterday's teenagers, therefore something else must have changed. In other words, culture does have an impact on teen sexuality (who would have thunk it?).





As little as 60 or so years ago, those same girls teens were having sex. They just got married earlier.
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Posted: 8/14/2012 3:04:13 AM
[Last Edit: 8/14/2012 3:06:07 AM by juslearnin]
Very true. Kids used to learn responsibility and a work ethic in the home, and at age 18 or 19 they knew how to work, or how to run a household, and were ready for a job and marriage. Much more ready than the average 30 year old grad student in our society is today.

The pastor who married my wife and I (20 years ago) got married to his wife when he was 19 and she was 18. They seem to have done quite well so far (?35 years later?).
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Posted: 8/14/2012 3:12:00 AM
Originally Posted By juslearnin:
Very true. Kids used to learn responsibility and a work ethic in the home, and at age 18 or 19 they knew how to work, or how to run a household, and were ready for a job and marriage. Much more ready than the average 30 year old grad student in our society is today.

The pastor who married my wife and I (20 years ago) got married to his wife when he was 19 and she was 18. They seem to have done quite well so far (?35 years later?).


I don't know many late 20s early 30s grad students or PhD candidates who are anything but responsible. People with bad work ethics generally don't get fellowships at top tier research universities.
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Posted: 8/14/2012 3:16:35 AM
[Last Edit: 8/14/2012 3:24:27 AM by juslearnin]
They don't get jobs either .

Just kidding!

I am not critical of education. I am critical of how college/ higher education allows many (not all!) to avoid responsibility well into their twenties. I have a deep respect for a person who works hard for a living (many of the people I deal with every day are incredibly hard workers- much more than I) and understands what a work ethic is. This is true of many grad students. For others, they just don't know how to make it in life, and they have found a safe place to hide in higher education.

My next door neighbor is around 67 years old, has a high school education, and along with two to three employees cuts and sells around 1000 cords of firewood per year. The man is the hardest worker I have ever seen, and puts me to shame.
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Posted: 8/14/2012 3:17:58 AM
Snow, you rock!
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Posted: 8/14/2012 3:38:08 AM
I agree with the OP. One of the big difference between teens from the olden days and today is there is no consequences for knocking a chick up. My wife sees it all the time at the health center where she volunteers.

Wife: So do you have a boyfriend?

New 17yo mom: "No we broke up and he has a new girlfriend now"

Wife:
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Posted: 8/14/2012 3:55:09 AM
Originally Posted By rx7145:
I agree with the OP. One of the big difference between teens from the olden days and today is there is no consequences for knocking a chick up. My wife sees it all the time at the health center where she volunteers.

Wife: So do you have a boyfriend?

New 17yo mom: "No we broke up and he has a new girlfriend now"

Wife:


Perfect example. Odds are, that girl will spend the rest of her life in poverty, and dependent on the government. Obviously not true in every case, maybe she has parents who will support her, and give her stability. Maybe she will find a responsible guy who will actually love her, and give her and her child some stability, but the odds are definitely more likely that she will "get by" depending on the "system" for the next 20 years.

She was looking for someone who loved her, who would make her happy, and instead she ended up alone except for a child she has to provide for when she is totally unequipped to do so.
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Posted: 8/14/2012 4:13:03 AM
Originally Posted By juslearnin:
Originally Posted By rx7145:
I agree with the OP. One of the big difference between teens from the olden days and today is there is no consequences for knocking a chick up. My wife sees it all the time at the health center where she volunteers.

Wife: So do you have a boyfriend?

New 17yo mom: "No we broke up and he has a new girlfriend now"

Wife:


Perfect example. Odds are, that girl will spend the rest of her life in poverty, and dependent on the government. Obviously not true in every case, maybe she has parents who will support her, and give her stability. Maybe she will find a responsible guy who will actually love her, and give her and her child some stability, but the odds are definitely more likely that she will "get by" depending on the "system" for the next 20 years.

She was looking for someone who loved her, who would make her happy, and instead she ended up alone except for a child she has to provide for when she is totally unequipped to do so.


Interestingly enough, this touches on one of the counter arguments I have to "a beating heart" in abortion and pro life.....there is more to life than a beating heart. By compelling a woman to bear a child that she does not want, one is removing the chance (high probability) that she may have to advance herself, to make something out of her life.

Now, in relation to this topic, abortion can also be seen as a product of the sexual revolution, so where does that take the point? To remain in the beliefs of a religious past and confine people to poverty because of errors in judgement or accept the possibilities of the revolution and allow people to take corrective action?
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Posted: 8/14/2012 4:20:25 AM
[Last Edit: 8/14/2012 4:30:15 AM by juslearnin]
Sure, have an abortion- that will solve your problems.

The guilt? There isn't any. Self hatred? Doesn't happen. Feeling suicidal? Nah. Listen to us, we CARE about you. Weren't we the ones who TOLD you that you should have been on the pill in the first place? You should have listened to us and then you wouldn't have been in this mess in the first place.

We can help you now! You just need to come up with some money, and we will suck that little ball of tissue out of your uterus and you can go back to enjoying your life just like before. Heck, maybe your boyfriend will take you back! No one will ever know! Not that there is anything wrong with it mind you!

A child is a responsibility and means a lot of work for the next 18 years.

An abortion means a lifetime of dealing with the consequences. It is not a "corrective action." It is killing another human. You can spend all day rationalizing it, and line up a bunch of "experts" who tell you different, but at the end of the day, it your conscience that you can never get away from.
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Posted: 8/14/2012 4:28:58 AM
Good post. It's maddening to see the results that a lot of the idiot policy makers never do when they proclaim it all a success.
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Posted: 8/14/2012 4:29:45 AM
Originally Posted By juslearnin:
Sure, have an abortion- that will solve your problems.

The guilt? There isn't any. Self hatred? Doesn't happen. Feeling suicidal? Nah. Listen to us, we CARE about you. Weren't we the ones who TOLD you that you should have been on the pill in the first place? You should have listened to us and then you wouldn't have been in this mess in the first place.

We can help you now! You just need to come up with some money, and we will suck that little ball of tissue out of your uterus and you can go back to enjoying your life just like before. No one will ever know!


Then, by such a statement, are we to understand that one supports the situation of unwed mothers and offer them no options to poverty?

That was another thing I learned growing up, when to recognize that there are situations where it is necessary to put aside emotions and think in cold, hard terms to arrive at a workable solution.
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Posted: 8/14/2012 4:32:40 AM
[Last Edit: 8/14/2012 4:39:21 AM by juslearnin]
So, if we are thinking in cold hard terms, why stop at abortion?

If you have a 2 year old who is holding you back, keeping you in poverty, why not just kill him?

That is probably the best way to get out of poverty. Then you can go back and get your education, get a good job, and leave all these mistakes behind you.

It makes just as much sense, doesn't it?

The attitude that got a person into the situation in the first place was an act of selfishness and irresponsibility. Why do we think another act of selfishness and irresponsibility will fix it?
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Posted: 8/14/2012 4:33:25 AM

Originally Posted By Snowleopard:
That was another thing I learned growing up, when to recognize that there are situations where it is necessary to put aside emotions and think in cold, hard terms to arrive at a workable solution.
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Putting away emotion and thinking in cold hard terms would mean leaving that mother to fend for herself.

Not stealing from others to help her idiocy.
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