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 wag_bag
regular guy
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Posted: 8/9/2012 2:53:32 PM
Originally Posted By USMC6177:
Originally Posted By wag_bag:
Yeah, in. With the right optics and enough altitude, the fucking thing wouldn't even have to move. It'd be the world's tallest observation tower. Not that that will stop the retards from talking shit about it. You with the intelligent response settle the fuck down, this is GD and we don't like that shit. Fuck you! You're a piece of shit that sucks the .gov tit while oppressing the innocent people of wherethefuckever! All of those tax dollars should go to my EBT card.! Better?  |
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USMC6177
Ever shoot a XM218 nekked?
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Posted: 8/9/2012 2:55:08 PM
[Last Edit: 8/9/2012 2:55:30 PM by USMC6177]
Originally Posted By wag_bag:
Originally Posted By USMC6177:
Originally Posted By wag_bag:
Yeah, in. With the right optics and enough altitude, the fucking thing wouldn't even have to move. It'd be the world's tallest observation tower. Not that that will stop the retards from talking shit about it. You with the intelligent response settle the fuck down, this is GD and we don't like that shit. Fuck you! You're a piece of shit that sucks the .gov tit while oppressing the innocent people of wherethefuckever! All of those tax dollars should go to my EBT card.! Better? Almost soothing very nicely done. |
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Posted: 8/9/2012 2:57:34 PM
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Since it happens to have the capability, the USAF will let the Army spend all the money to develop it, whine to Congress at the last minute to take it away promising to fully support the Army with it, then shortly after announce they are getting rid of all of them like the dishonest pieces of shit the USAF senior leadership are when it comes to these issues. Kidding aside, it's the perfect "Out" for the army. Key West says nothing about aerostats, only fixed wing. The Army could field it then tell the AF to go piss up a rope. |
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Posted: 8/9/2012 2:57:44 PM
Originally Posted By kudzu630:
Originally Posted By setlab:
Originally Posted By kudzu630:
Originally Posted By hondaciv:
Is this one of those COIN projects that would be useless in a real war? You must of missed out where blimps were used in World War II... you know, a real war. See D-Day landing photos. Ah, the good Ole days when radar wasn't quite developed yet, there were no anti air missiles, and planes only carried bombs and small caliber bullets. Aren't many anti-air missiles that are behind our lines in MCO... its not as if the blimps were front like close air support like the first ones were Yea, but I'm not sure I would really call what we are doing over seas now a war. I wouldn't like to see what would happen to that blimp in a real war against a country that can actually fight back like China, Russia, or maybe even Iran. It's perfect for what we do now, especially if they make in into a UAV. |
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Screechjet1
Switched for 200 lbs of dog food on the TPFDD
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Posted: 8/9/2012 3:08:21 PM
Originally Posted By kill-9:
Are there any eastern MANPADS that could engage one of these? If so, they'll fail in COIN ops. You mean, like all rotary wing and many UAV assets? |
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Screechjet1
Switched for 200 lbs of dog food on the TPFDD
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Posted: 8/9/2012 3:10:32 PM
Originally Posted By hondaciv:
Is this one of those COIN projects that would be useless in a real war? Credibility, you've lost it. |
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Posted: 8/9/2012 3:15:47 PM
[Last Edit: 8/9/2012 3:29:39 PM by Katana16j]
Originally Posted By Screechjet1:
Originally Posted By kill-9:
Are there any eastern MANPADS that could engage one of these? If so, they'll fail in COIN ops. You mean, like all rotary wing and many UAV assets? Manpad range is quite limited, and they don't exactly have the most destructive warheads. It most likely is capable of flying far higher then manpads can engage. Blimps are good at that. Also, If it is a compartmentalized design it can probably take a manpad and just lose altitude to compensate. Also, being shot down in a blimp is relatively non-dramatic. It's kinda like autorotating down in a helicopter but slower and with a subtle hissing noise in the background. |
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Dilbert_556
When did ignorance become a point of view?
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Posted: 8/9/2012 3:27:47 PM
Originally Posted By Katana16j:
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Since it happens to have the capability, the USAF will let the Army spend all the money to develop it, whine to Congress at the last minute to take it away promising to fully support the Army with it, then shortly after announce they are getting rid of all of them like the dishonest pieces of shit the USAF senior leadership are when it comes to these issues. Kidding aside, it's the perfect "Out" for the army. Key West says nothing about aerostats, only fixed wing. The Army could field it then tell the AF to go piss up a rope. Looks like it has a couple of short stubby fixed wings to me...better get rid of those just to be safe.  |
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sebois
Winter is coming.
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Posted: 8/9/2012 3:38:12 PM
Originally Posted By sovereign:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Originally Posted By Katana16j:
This is awesome. I wonder how long before the Air Force takes over the program and kills it.  I dont think so, slow pos floating ballon with people on board would never get shot at. Fuck getting in/around that thing
ETAslow unresponsive non steath ISR, year that will work
These will be used over the US. /thread |
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Gone_Shootin
CAPATALIST
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Posted: 8/9/2012 3:47:37 PM
That thing has a helluva camel toe.
Oh, and the Air Force already has spy blimps. |
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kill-9
Individual Rights Absolutist
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Posted: 8/9/2012 4:42:48 PM
Originally Posted By Katana16j: Originally Posted By Screechjet1: Originally Posted By kill-9: Are there any eastern MANPADS that could engage one of these? If so, they'll fail in COIN ops. You mean, like all rotary wing and many UAV assets? It most likely is capable of flying far higher then manpads can engage. Blimps are good at that. This is what I was wondering. |
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Kharn
Mushroom Cloud Measurer
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Posted: 8/9/2012 4:47:06 PM
Originally Posted By Berserkr556:
The Hindenburg crashed somewhere in NJ that had some big hangers...
It should have been built in OH. The town just South of me, Suffield, has the hanger where America's first airships were made. Goodyear still builds and houses blimps there. There is another hanger to the West in Akron. This area is the home of American airships. ETA: Check out the USS Akron and USS Macon. Kharn |
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TaylorWSO
Kool-aid
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Posted: 8/9/2012 6:03:57 PM
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter: Originally Posted By TaylorWSO: Originally Posted By Katana16j: This is awesome. I wonder how long before the Air Force takes over the program and kills it. I dont think so, slow pos floating ballon with people on board would never get shot at. Fuck getting in/around that thingETAslow unresponsive non steath ISR, year that will work Even in a larger conflict, it has utility. Rear area security, for one example. we already have balloons for that |
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Posted: 8/9/2012 6:32:23 PM
[Last Edit: 8/9/2012 6:33:59 PM by FDC]
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Originally Posted By Katana16j:
This is awesome. I wonder how long before the Air Force takes over the program and kills it. I dont think so, slow pos floating ballon with people on board would never get shot at. Fuck getting in/around that thing
ETAslow unresponsive non steath ISR, year that will work
Even in a larger conflict, it has utility. Rear area security, for one example. we already have balloons for that This is likely a bit more capable than tethered aerostats. Not to mention that while the PGSS is pretty cool, and can see a long ways out from the fixed sight they are at, the more you use it, the more you find it lacking what you need. I'm just curious to see how they perform in weather. |
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Dilbert_556
When did ignorance become a point of view?
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Posted: 8/9/2012 6:52:58 PM
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Originally Posted By Katana16j:
This is awesome. I wonder how long before the Air Force takes over the program and kills it. I dont think so, slow pos floating ballon with people on board would never get shot at. Fuck getting in/around that thing
ETAslow unresponsive non steath ISR, year that will work
Even in a larger conflict, it has utility. Rear area security, for one example. we already have balloons for that This is likely a bit more capable than tethered aerostats. Not to mention that while the PGSS is pretty cool, and can see a long ways out from the fixed sight they are at, the more you use it, the more you find it lacking what you need. I'm just curious to see how they perform in weather. I imagine that a Tornado, or any other fighter for that matter, could ruin it's day pretty fast. |
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Posted: 8/9/2012 6:58:38 PM
Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Originally Posted By Katana16j:
This is awesome. I wonder how long before the Air Force takes over the program and kills it. I dont think so, slow pos floating ballon with people on board would never get shot at. Fuck getting in/around that thing
ETAslow unresponsive non steath ISR, year that will work
Even in a larger conflict, it has utility. Rear area security, for one example. we already have balloons for that This is likely a bit more capable than tethered aerostats. Not to mention that while the PGSS is pretty cool, and can see a long ways out from the fixed sight they are at, the more you use it, the more you find it lacking what you need. I'm just curious to see how they perform in weather. I imagine that a Tornado, or any other fighter for that matter, could ruin it's day pretty fast.
Um yeah? Would do the same to an AC-130. Your point is? |
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Dilbert_556
When did ignorance become a point of view?
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Posted: 8/9/2012 7:16:05 PM
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Originally Posted By Katana16j:
This is awesome. I wonder how long before the Air Force takes over the program and kills it. I dont think so, slow pos floating ballon with people on board would never get shot at. Fuck getting in/around that thing
ETAslow unresponsive non steath ISR, year that will work
Even in a larger conflict, it has utility. Rear area security, for one example. we already have balloons for that This is likely a bit more capable than tethered aerostats. Not to mention that while the PGSS is pretty cool, and can see a long ways out from the fixed sight they are at, the more you use it, the more you find it lacking what you need. I'm just curious to see how they perform in weather. I imagine that a Tornado, or any other fighter for that matter, could ruin it's day pretty fast.
Um yeah? Would do the same to an AC-130. Your point is? My point is that using that thing manned in anything other than a totally permissive environment is not a good idea. Don't get me wrong, I can see several things that it would do well, but giving its crew a fighting chance isn't one of them. |
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wag_bag
regular guy
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Posted: 8/9/2012 7:32:10 PM
Do you have any idea how hard it would be to hit even a blimp at four or five thousand feet above ground level with small arms?
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DrMark
Diet Mountain Dewaholic
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Posted: 8/9/2012 7:34:11 PM
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dport
Bringing back the BB - one 16-inch shell at a time
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Posted: 8/9/2012 7:39:27 PM
I can think of at least 5 or 6 different missions it would be excellent for.
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Cromlech
I like big Pies and I cannot lie.
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Posted: 8/9/2012 7:48:46 PM
Originally Posted By dport: Bring back the BattleBlimps?I can think of at least 5 or 6 different missions it would be excellent for. |
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Posted: 8/9/2012 8:06:03 PM
I'd think it could be easy to shoot down.
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nukldragr
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Posted: 8/9/2012 8:10:29 PM
So am I in before the super patriots decree that it will be used against American civilians and ask what round for blimps?
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Ventilator
The sharpest knife in a drawer full of spoons....
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Posted: 8/9/2012 8:14:18 PM
Originally Posted By nukldragr:
So am I in before the super patriots decree that it will be used against American civilians and ask what round for blimps? Ummm...No. ARFCOM never wastes a chance at a tinfoil moment. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/9/2012 8:16:48 PM
Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:
My point is that using that thing manned in anything other than a totally permissive environment is not a good idea. Don't get me wrong, I can see several things that it would do well, but giving its crew a fighting chance isn't one of them. Do you really think we would fly a freaking manned blimp into an area with an ADA threat? |
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JSteensen
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Posted: 8/9/2012 8:20:20 PM
[Last Edit: 8/9/2012 8:21:11 PM by JSteensen]
As someone who was involved with this project in a limited capacity, I am absolutely stoked to see her fly.
 ETA, it is optionally manned. (Sometimes UAV, sometimes human crewed.) |
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dport
Bringing back the BB - one 16-inch shell at a time
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Posted: 8/9/2012 8:46:12 PM
Originally Posted By damcv62:
I'd think it could be easy to shoot down. If you're going into contested airspace maybe. There are plenty of uses for a persistent platform not operating in contested airspace. For instance, there is real value in having a sensor that can operate for three weeks over the ocean. It would do wonders for anti-submarine warfare and anti-piracy ops. It would also be a good relay for tactical datalinks and other communications paths. The only problem with an airship, historically, has been it's slow speed, which is made up here by incredible endurance, and fragility. I hope they have the second problem licked. |
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Posted: 8/9/2012 9:06:19 PM
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Yes, but without a tether it can do it from a much higher altitude, covering a greater area, and more quickly be retasked to a new area should priorities shift. Also, can it not also be used for transporting cargo? The article mentioned the ability to move several tons of cargo over 1000 miles at 30mph. 7 tons really isn't that much. couple of CHs or better yet a C130 would do the same, probably faster even with a fuel stop. I wouldn't think the cargo capacity is something we would be interested in. I'm not sure about Northrop's airship, but Lockheed Martin has a model with what are essentially suction pads on the bottom and it's supposed to be able to land anywhere, without any additional mooring equipment. It's a promotional video it does mention that it can be scaled up and addresses concerns like battle damage, etc. Likens it to a "fast ship" that doesn't need a port rather than an aircraft. If I were the Army I would order them to put little fixed wings on the sides just to troll the Air Force. Hell, buy up a bunch of these and get your own strategic airlift. |
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Dilbert_556
When did ignorance become a point of view?
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Posted: 8/9/2012 9:31:36 PM
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:
My point is that using that thing manned in anything other than a totally permissive environment is not a good idea. Don't get me wrong, I can see several things that it would do well, but giving its crew a fighting chance isn't one of them. Do you really think we would fly a freaking manned blimp into an area with an ADA threat? Check fire man; no offense intended. I hope it works out for whatever purposes you guys in the Army have in mind. |
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Posted: 8/9/2012 9:36:16 PM
Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:
My point is that using that thing manned in anything other than a totally permissive environment is not a good idea. Don't get me wrong, I can see several things that it would do well, but giving its crew a fighting chance isn't one of them. Do you really think we would fly a freaking manned blimp into an area with an ADA threat? Check fire man; no offense intended. I hope it works out for whatever purposes you guys in the Army have in mind. I'm not offended, and while I can certainly see many uses for it, I'm not really a huge fan of the concept (effort vs money vs reward) either. I just expected something smarter than––-OMG it can be shot down, from you. |
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Dilbert_556
When did ignorance become a point of view?
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Posted: 8/9/2012 9:46:11 PM
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:
My point is that using that thing manned in anything other than a totally permissive environment is not a good idea. Don't get me wrong, I can see several things that it would do well, but giving its crew a fighting chance isn't one of them. Do you really think we would fly a freaking manned blimp into an area with an ADA threat? Check fire man; no offense intended. I hope it works out for whatever purposes you guys in the Army have in mind. I'm not offended, and while I can certainly see many uses for it, I'm not really a huge fan of the concept (effort vs money vs reward) either. I just expected something smarter than––-OMG it can be shot down, from you. I was (wrongly after I re-read what I responded to) addressing the obvious danger from a crewed standpoint. It's still going to be a mighty juicy target for an enemy though... |
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Posted: 8/9/2012 9:47:08 PM
Everything old is new again
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wag_bag
regular guy
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Posted: 8/9/2012 9:51:18 PM
Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:
My point is that using that thing manned in anything other than a totally permissive environment is not a good idea. Don't get me wrong, I can see several things that it would do well, but giving its crew a fighting chance isn't one of them. Do you really think we would fly a freaking manned blimp into an area with an ADA threat? Check fire man; no offense intended. I hope it works out for whatever purposes you guys in the Army have in mind. I'm not offended, and while I can certainly see many uses for it, I'm not really a huge fan of the concept (effort vs money vs reward) either. I just expected something smarter than––-OMG it can be shot down, from you. I was (wrongly after I re-read what I responded to) addressing the obvious danger from a crewed standpoint. It's still going to be a mighty juicy target for an enemy though... Let the idiots shoot at it. As long as theyre using small arms, thr likelihood of them hitting it and damaging it is next to nil. Looks like this thing will have goodyear type altitude. |
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Posted: 8/9/2012 10:33:25 PM
There is a proposed version of the lockheed version that supposedly has a 1000 ton cargo capacity.
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Win_88
Insanity We Trust.
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Posted: 8/9/2012 11:39:09 PM
Well. If you were trying to figure out how all these drones are going to be controlled and monitored. Don't look any further.
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Posted: 8/9/2012 11:54:27 PM
Originally Posted By Katana16j:
There is a proposed version of the lockheed version that supposedly has a 1000 ton cargo capacity. We should figure out a way to put a nuclear powerplant on one, make it really "long-endurance". We're the leaders in helium production we might as well take advantage of it. |
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Posted: 8/9/2012 11:57:51 PM
Originally Posted By David45:
Originally Posted By Katana16j:
There is a proposed version of the lockheed version that supposedly has a 1000 ton cargo capacity. We should figure out a way to put a nuclear powerplant on one, make it really "long-endurance". We're the leaders in helium production we might as well take advantage of it. The world is actually running out of helium, we don't have much left. |
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Garand_Shooter
Dealer of fine surplus goods.....
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Posted: 8/10/2012 7:48:44 AM
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Originally Posted By Katana16j:
This is awesome. I wonder how long before the Air Force takes over the program and kills it. I dont think so, slow pos floating ballon with people on board would never get shot at. Fuck getting in/around that thing
ETAslow unresponsive non steath ISR, year that will work
Even in a larger conflict, it has utility. Rear area security, for one example. we already have balloons for that This is likely a bit more capable than tethered aerostats. Not to mention that while the PGSS is pretty cool, and can see a long ways out from the fixed sight they are at, the more you use it, the more you find it lacking what you need. I'm just curious to see how they perform in weather. Yep. Just the ability to change its station and mission at will gives it a huge advantage over a tethered aerostat. If You wanted this moved from one FOB to one 75 miles away, it gets there in 2.5 hours. If you want to move a tethered Aerostat you have to to bring it in, deflate it, prep it for transport, spin up a convoy, move it, and set it back up. Heck, at 30 mph it could easily provide overwatch/ISR for most convoys in AFG once you are off the Ring Road. |
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Garand_Shooter
Dealer of fine surplus goods.....
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Posted: 8/10/2012 7:49:49 AM
Originally Posted By sovereign:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Originally Posted By Katana16j:
This is awesome. I wonder how long before the Air Force takes over the program and kills it. I dont think so, slow pos floating ballon with people on board would never get shot at. Fuck getting in/around that thing
ETAslow unresponsive non steath ISR, year that will work
These will be used over the US. Why would you be against such a potent tool used to secure our borders? |
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USMC6177
Ever shoot a XM218 nekked?
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Posted: 8/10/2012 8:34:54 AM
Originally Posted By Screechjet1:
Originally Posted By hondaciv:
Is this one of those COIN projects that would be useless in a real war? Credibility, you've lost it. Can't lose credibility you don't have. |
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Posted: 8/10/2012 9:39:55 AM
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:
My point is that using that thing manned in anything other than a totally permissive environment is not a good idea. Don't get me wrong, I can see several things that it would do well, but giving its crew a fighting chance isn't one of them. Do you really think we would fly a freaking manned blimp into an area with an ADA threat? You aren't going to fly it on a mission in a manned mode anyway. The biggest advantage that an airship gives you is endurance, and putting a crew aboard is going to eliminate that advantage. The airship is optionally manned primarily so that they can ferry it over areas where the local regulations don't allow unmanned operations. If you don't need the endurance, then it probably isn't worth the effort to deploy and support an airship. As for carrying cargo, the LEMV is an ISR platform. In a war zone a conventional airlift capability (helicopters or even an LZ for C-130s) would likely be much easier to arrange than preparing for an airship, and the arrival will attract a lot less attention, unless done at night. Mike |
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Posted: 8/16/2012 12:18:09 PM
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Originally Posted By FDC:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Originally Posted By Katana16j:
This is awesome. I wonder how long before the Air Force takes over the program and kills it. I dont think so, slow pos floating ballon with people on board would never get shot at. Fuck getting in/around that thing
ETAslow unresponsive non steath ISR, year that will work
Even in a larger conflict, it has utility. Rear area security, for one example. we already have balloons for that This is likely a bit more capable than tethered aerostats. Not to mention that while the PGSS is pretty cool, and can see a long ways out from the fixed sight they are at, the more you use it, the more you find it lacking what you need. I'm just curious to see how they perform in weather. Yep. Just the ability to change its station and mission at will gives it a huge advantage over a tethered aerostat. If You wanted this moved from one FOB to one 75 miles away, it gets there in 2.5 hours. If you want to move a tethered Aerostat you have to to bring it in, deflate it, prep it for transport, spin up a convoy, move it, and set it back up. Heck, at 30 mph it could easily provide overwatch/ISR for most convoys in AFG once you are off the Ring Road. The really perverse thing is that the Taliban has as much ability to shoot down one of these as they do a b-1. So if you just need a bomb truck to put munitions on whatever spot you need this would work as well as a b1b from the guy on the ground's perspective. |
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RR_Broccoli
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Posted: 8/16/2012 12:28:24 PM
Originally Posted By Forest: Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter: Yes, but without a tether it can do it from a much higher altitude, covering a greater area, and more quickly be retasked to a new area should priorities shift. Also, can it not also be used for transporting cargo? The article mentioned the ability to move several tons of cargo over 1000 miles at 30mph. That opens the option for it to be a weapons platform too. Basically, a drone (or manned I suppose) with possible loiter time longer than existing ones, or with a different ability to do "stand off" firing. A LTAA can sit in a single spot for a single point of view much longer.
Wait till Mrs. Haji goes to the outhouse and release the JDAM just as she squats. Taking out only Mr. Haji.
Granted in a fight against the Chinese it might not be a useful thing to have, but in a lot of the conflicts the US has been in recently I can see how it would have something to offer to the mix. |
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Posted: 8/16/2012 12:54:23 PM
Originally Posted By hondaciv:
Is this one of those COIN projects that would be useless in a real war? "Conventional War" is the term you were looking for. |
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