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 thebeekeeper1
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:54:04 AM
Originally Posted By AZ_Sky:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Unbelievable. My guess is its not the first time that yahoo took off without performing any kind of takeoff data/weight & balance. Someone else mentioned "high temps"末does that mean that during times of high ambient temperatures the less dense air doesn't provide as much lift? That seems obvious, but can such things be calculated accurately in order to avoid this kind of thing? Obviously I know nothing about flying末except I don't want to crash. I know that much.  Absolutely such things can be calculated accurately, and then checked against the aircraft performance charts. So it very much sounds to my <completely ignorant> self this was a case of pilot error rather than "an air pocket." It seems any kind of air pocket would be much more abrupt than the gradual descent they made.  |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:55:08 AM
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By phatmax:
Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Unbelievable. My guess is its not the first time that yahoo took off without performing any kind of takeoff data/weight & balance. I can make it!!! GottaGetThere-itis STRIKES AGAIN! If you are flying and say to others or yourself, "Fuck it, I can make it!"......STOP what ever the fuck you are planning and DON'T DO IT. Is it common for the pilot to be so quiet during an obvious bad time? It seems something like "Hold on末we're going in!" would at least be reflexive. The dead silence was disconcerting to me.  I only watched the first 3 minutes but you can barely hear yelling during the collision, normal conversation would be lost in the engine noise. |
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Shung
EBR crew chief
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:55:25 AM
[Last Edit: 8/8/2012 11:56:04 AM by Shung]
my piloting experience isnt huge, but to me, as heavy as they were, I think they should have tried gaining more speed before trying to climb... I am under the impression that he kept a slow speed and a somehow high aoa trying to get altitude in vain... staying lower to gain more speed before the trees.. thats what I would have tried when I noticed that we were far too heay...
anyway.. easy to say now.. |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:55:54 AM
he is well out of ground effect at 70ft. you know better.
i suspect he hit service ceiling d/t DA at 70ft agl. Originally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By danpass: Despite my studying I always wonder with these situations ........... why would it gain 70ft of altitude if its not going to hit 140ft? The density altitude between those two heights is miniscule. Ground effect. |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:57:07 AM
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By phatmax:
Originally Posted By danpass:
Despite my studying I always wonder with these situations ........... why would it gain 70ft of altitude but not 140ft? It is outside of ground effect, but it was on the absolute edge of its performance envelope. If he had more HP, or a prop with a different pitch to produce more actual propulsion, eg, speed, he could have increased the airflow over the wings and gained more altitude. A/c was maxed out and after watching that run, I am amazed it made it off the ground. The lack of talking on the pilot's side MAY be that he had a headset on as well as the pax, and you don't need to shout to be heard, and the camera was only picking up ambient noise. Light aircraft are noisy. OLD light aircraft are extremely noisy. While he did get further up than ground effect I would expect that it was because he got enough speed up during the effect to get some climb, right up until he saw the trees and pulled up until he burned off his speed and started getting into power on stalls with no power or altitute to spare. lulz. You know... He must be old and have crappy eyesight, I saw those trees a LOOOOOOOONG way off. 
Yet another reason that in a situation like that, I want to be in front, too. On that long roll I would have yelling for an abort and if that fuck took off, I would not be one to sit and wait for the crash. |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:57:19 AM
My dad flies in and out of that exact area in a Vagabond and Piper Cub. It gets hot that time of year and you pretty much have to fly in and out early in the morning or else you're going to have trouble unless you wait for it to cool down. Apparently these guys had flown in early morning then hiked all morning and tried to fly out during the hottest part of the day.
Lightweight aircraft + 3 big guys + 2pm hot day at 8000+ ft altitude = NO FLYING |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:57:45 AM
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Is it common for the pilot to be so quiet during an obvious bad time? It seems something like "Hold on末we're going in!" would at least be reflexive. The dead silence was disconcerting to me. When in trouble, shut up and fly the plane. I see nothing abnormal there. Looks like he was trying to save it the whole time he was airbourne. He really should have known he was in trouble by that take off roll. |
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SmilingBandit
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:57:51 AM
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By AZ_Sky:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Unbelievable. My guess is its not the first time that yahoo took off without performing any kind of takeoff data/weight & balance. Someone else mentioned "high temps"末does that mean that during times of high ambient temperatures the less dense air doesn't provide as much lift? That seems obvious, but can such things be calculated accurately in order to avoid this kind of thing? Obviously I know nothing about flying末except I don't want to crash. I know that much. Absolutely such things can be calculated accurately, and then checked against the aircraft performance charts. So it very much sounds to my <completely ignorant> self this was a case of pilot error rather than "an air pocket." It seems any kind of air pocket would be much more abrupt than the gradual descent they made. Most accidents have "The pilot's failure to..." in the determination. I have no reason to expect this one would be any different. The plane didn't want to fly, he didn't know that ahead of time and refused listen to it when it tried to tell him. |
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RhinelandArms
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:58:06 AM
Notice he was in a slight turn when it stalled as well.
I have seen a couple crash videos of mountain flying and they all stall in a turn. Same shit happened to me while flying in a 150 in the desert , I could not gain more than 100 feet and I knew I could not turn. I made slight variations to heading to get over a lake, there I picked up a thermal and got to 6000 feet were is was much cooler and plane was fine. |
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dfowler21
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:58:49 AM
Yep. Turns out that 70 agl happened to be the absolute celing for that plane under those conditions. They were well out of ground effect.
Originally Posted By phatmax: Originally Posted By danpass: Despite my studying I always wonder with these situations ........... why would it gain 70ft of altitude but not 140ft? It is outside of ground effect, but it was on the absolute edge of its performance envelope. If he had more HP, or a prop with a different pitch to produce more actual propulsion, eg, speed, he could have increased the airflow over the wings and gained more altitude. A/c was maxed out and after watching that run, I am amazed it made it off the ground. The lack of talking on the pilot's side MAY be that he had a headset on as well as the pax, and you don't need to shout to be heard, and the camera was only picking up ambient noise. Light aircraft are noisy. OLD light aircraft are extremely noisy. |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:59:05 AM
With the fancy iPad strapped to the yoke, a nice W/B app could have handled that nicely for him.
Maybe even reported the DA for the area which most likely was approaching the service ceiling for his airplane (before taking off). Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Unbelievable. My guess is its not the first time that yahoo took off without performing any kind of takeoff data/weight & balance. |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:00:07 PM
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By phatmax:
Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Unbelievable. My guess is its not the first time that yahoo took off without performing any kind of takeoff data/weight & balance. I can make it!!! GottaGetThere-itis STRIKES AGAIN! If you are flying and say to others or yourself, "Fuck it, I can make it!"......STOP what ever the fuck you are planning and DON'T DO IT. Is it common for the pilot to be so quiet during an obvious bad time? It seems something like "Hold on末we're going in!" would at least be reflexive. The dead silence was disconcerting to me. I've been in a "crash" before...not as bad as that one, but still pretty scary. The only thing either of us said was a quiet "you okay?" when we finally came to a stop. |
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SmilingBandit
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:02:26 PM
Originally Posted By ti8589:
he is well out of ground effect at 70ft. you know better. i suspect he hit service ceiling d/t DA at 70ft agl.
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By danpass:
Despite my studying I always wonder with these situations ........... why would it gain 70ft of altitude if its not going to hit 140ft? The density altitude between those two heights is miniscule. Ground effect. It's pretty unlikely that he hit his ceiling 70 ft AGL. As I said earlier, I expect that he gained some speed while in ground effect then ran out of that energy at the end of that short climb and hung out at Vy going no further up until he pulled back when he got close to the trees. |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:06:30 PM
Dumbass.
Hope his injuries were severe enough to keep him out of the cockpit for good. There was enough time in that takeoff roll to shut it down, turn around in the seat and say "Not today folks. Too hot for the old girl" Nobody would have been upset, having just had a little ride in a vintage piece of equipment. That clown did not have a clue. He was not a pilot. . |
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SuperSixOne
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:06:37 PM
Overweight, high altitude and high temp... hmmm.. I seriously can't believe some people are this dumb and still alive today. How this guy passed his PPL is beyond me.
"POH and W/B, Who needs that! I'm a Bush pilot!
 "I may or may not have heard that last line before.....
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:07:02 PM
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Thanks, guys. So if I ever have to fly and the pilot just jumps in and fires it up and says, Let's go!" I need to flee. Not necessarly. I know without looking that you and I can hop into the 182 and go for a flight with no performance issues. Now if two of your friends wanted to come along I'd spend more time looking at the charts.  LOL, exactly. When we go flying in the Vagabond, the Cub, or the 150, it's all about how many of us and how big. If it's just pilot and 1 passenger, it's no big deal––even taking off in 80+ degree temps from the grass strip at 5000 ft ASL. Any more passengers, however, and it's either early morning or late evening flying only, when the temps are lower and everything looks good on the charts. |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:09:12 PM
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By phatmax:
Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Unbelievable. My guess is its not the first time that yahoo took off without performing any kind of takeoff data/weight & balance. I can make it!!! GottaGetThere-itis STRIKES AGAIN! If you are flying and say to others or yourself, "Fuck it, I can make it!"......STOP what ever the fuck you are planning and DON'T DO IT. Is it common for the pilot to be so quiet during an obvious bad time? It seems something like "Hold on末we're going in!" would at least be reflexive. The dead silence was disconcerting to me. He was struggling to keep the aircraft in the air. No doubt he knew he screwed up. He should have known better and cut the power half way down that runway. The aircraft was basically in slow-flight as soon as it was out of ground effect. He should have set it down and called it a day as soon as he saw he wasn't gaining any airspeed, let alone altitude. Screwed the pooch on that one. |
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AZ_Sky
Living vicariously through myself
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:10:04 PM
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By AZ_Sky:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Unbelievable. My guess is its not the first time that yahoo took off without performing any kind of takeoff data/weight & balance. Someone else mentioned "high temps"末does that mean that during times of high ambient temperatures the less dense air doesn't provide as much lift? That seems obvious, but can such things be calculated accurately in order to avoid this kind of thing? Obviously I know nothing about flying末except I don't want to crash. I know that much. Absolutely such things can be calculated accurately, and then checked against the aircraft performance charts. So it very much sounds to my <completely ignorant> self this was a case of pilot error rather than "an air pocket." It seems any kind of air pocket would be much more abrupt than the gradual descent they made. This Link will take you to the pilots operating handbook (POH) for a Cessna 152. All aircraft have one of these. You can take a look starting a page 25 to see the typical performance charts that pilots use to determine if take-off and landing will have a happy ending.... There's no excuse for not knowing if the aircraft can perform in any given situation! |
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MSC182
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:13:24 PM
High temp + High elevation + High gross weight = Crashing into trees. Sadly, this has been going on for as long as man has flown in those environments and will continue. Those guys are extremely lucky. I will give the PIC credit for one thing, he flew/crashed straight ahead which is what saved them. Had he attempted a turn back to the departure point they would have stalled and spun in and probably all died.
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thebeekeeper1
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:17:35 PM
Originally Posted By AZ_Sky:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
. This Link will take you to the pilots operating handbook (POH) for a Cessna 152. All aircraft have one of these. You can take a look starting a page 25 to see the typical performance charts that pilots use to determine if take-off and landing will have a happy ending.... There's no excuse for not knowing if the aircraft can perform in any given situation! Wow, it's all right there, right down to the amount of fuel consumed during takeoff. I guess if one simply devotes the time to look it up you have all the physics you need to account for most every variable and contingency. It sounds to me as if the "no old bold pilots" refers to simply taking time and attention to details of this sort.  |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:17:58 PM
Originally Posted By AZ_Sky:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By AZ_Sky:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Unbelievable. My guess is its not the first time that yahoo took off without performing any kind of takeoff data/weight & balance. Someone else mentioned "high temps"末does that mean that during times of high ambient temperatures the less dense air doesn't provide as much lift? That seems obvious, but can such things be calculated accurately in order to avoid this kind of thing? Obviously I know nothing about flying末except I don't want to crash. I know that much. Absolutely such things can be calculated accurately, and then checked against the aircraft performance charts. So it very much sounds to my <completely ignorant> self this was a case of pilot error rather than "an air pocket." It seems any kind of air pocket would be much more abrupt than the gradual descent they made. This Link will take you to the pilots operating handbook (POH) for a Cessna 152. All aircraft have one of these. You can take a look starting a page 25 to see the typical performance charts that pilots use to determine if take-off and landing will have a happy ending.... There's no excuse for not knowing if the aircraft can perform in any given situation! I have read that book a good bit, nowhere does it mention if having a female Asian passenger will affect the aircraft / pilot and what, if any, ancillary results that may occur from that. |
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runcible
Never Knows Best
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:20:30 PM
Originally Posted By MTUSA:
Looks like excess weight in the fuselage... Like a lot of women I've known. |
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runcible
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:20:51 PM
Nope. Don't watch plane crash video.
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:23:08 PM
I can't believe how well off these folks ended up on the ground. I got the life altering opportunity to rescue a person off a frozen reservoir when the couples plane stalled doing a high angle correction to avoid the side of a hill. The plane impacted the edge of the reservoir, and then slid 100 yards out onto the ice, nose down. It looked like the pilot had been thrown threw the windscreen and into the prop on impact. His passenger was able to be rescued however with facial fractures. It just amazes me how some crashes the people do so well, and others... not so hot! even though the crashes don't seem as bad.
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:23:32 PM
Originally Posted By runcible:
Originally Posted By MTUSA:
Looks like excess weight in the fuselage... Like a lot of women I've known. You're thinking about the empennage. They make the rockin' world go 'round, or so I'm told. |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:25:58 PM
The only thing I can say is wow.
Extremely lucky and extremely stupid. |
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_DR
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:30:55 PM
[Last Edit: 8/8/2012 12:34:44 PM by _DR]
Originally Posted By Molotov357:
Not enough power for that much weight.  Yep if you can't maintain altitude it's time start chucking things out instead of filming. |
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thebeekeeper1
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:40:29 PM
Does anyone have any idea how fast (ground speed) they may have been moving when they hit the trees?
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RR_Broccoli
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:44:54 PM
Originally Posted By Molotov357: Not enough power for that much weight. Shoulda dumped the iPad the pilot was futzing with out the window for less weight. (Watch the end with the slow-mo, he's got a table and is fucking with it until the first tree tips hit.) I see carelessness here.
I wonder how they contacted folks for help, it didn't look like there would be a whole lot of witnesses to that crash. |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:45:27 PM
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Does anyone have any idea how fast (ground speed) they may have been moving when they hit the trees? I am betting around 55 MPH. I am thinking he bled a lot of speed yanking back. It may have been even lower, around 45. |
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flyhack72
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:45:39 PM
Originally Posted By TheGunCollector:
Originally Posted By FunYun1983:
He had a hard time gaining altitude from start. That take off roll was like a mile. I'm just a PPSEL here, and flying in Colorado, A. I would've know the capabilities of my aircraft, and B. I would've aborted when I saw the thing didn't want to leave the ground. Yeah, it seemed obvious that there was an issue from about 30 seconds into flight. Why he didn't shut it down or head for an opening in the trees is beyond me. |
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AZ_Sky
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:48:29 PM
[Last Edit: 8/8/2012 12:48:54 PM by AZ_Sky]
Originally Posted By phatmax:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Does anyone have any idea how fast (ground speed) they may have been moving when they hit the trees? I am betting around 55 MPH. I am thinking he bled a lot of speed yanking back. It may have been even lower, around 45. Actually, I'm guessing more like 65 to 70. They were not in a full stall when they hit and the Stinson 108-3 has a stall speed of 65mph. |
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thebeekeeper1
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:50:08 PM
Originally Posted By phatmax:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Does anyone have any idea how fast (ground speed) they may have been moving when they hit the trees? I am betting around 55 MPH. I am thinking he bled a lot of speed yanking back. It may have been even lower, around 45. Yikes, slower than I would have guessed, but still very fast with so little protection. Those danged physics laws––you can't really break them and get away with it. |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:50:31 PM
[Last Edit: 8/8/2012 12:53:09 PM by soupersnake]
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Does anyone have any idea how fast (ground speed) they may have been moving when they hit the trees? No, but I'll say the trees probably helped by slowing them down gradually (relatively speaking) before they impacted the ground. Despite that, you can see that the plane still crumpled quite a bit on impact. It doesn't take much speed to turn a light aircraft into an accordion on impact. ETA: Getting squished in the "folds" of the accordion can be fatal. If the fuselage stays intact, your chances of survival are better. Here, they were lucky the trees slowed the plane down quite a bit before it flipped and nosedived into the ground. |
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Star_Scream
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:55:29 PM
Originally Posted By Him: I wonder how many hours the pilot had, and in what. As pointed out in another thread. Hours aren't as important as skill or common sense. |
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Star_Scream
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:57:54 PM
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: Originally Posted By phatmax: Originally Posted By JustinOK34: Unbelievable. My guess is its not the first time that yahoo took off without performing any kind of takeoff data/weight & balance. I can make it!!! GottaGetThere-itis STRIKES AGAIN! If you are flying and say to others or yourself, "Fuck it, I can make it!"......STOP what ever the fuck you are planning and DON'T DO IT. Is it common for the pilot to be so quiet during an obvious bad time? It seems something like "Hold on末we're going in!" would at least be reflexive. The dead silence was disconcerting to me. it depends. sometimes people are quiet and cool as a cucumber others are frantic sounding. we had a guy have a minor problem and he was freaking out while the other day a guy with severe engine problems was cool as ice. Granted my opinion is skewed because I'm safe in a nice stable air conditioned building and they are up in the air. |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:59:57 PM
Originally Posted By AZ_Sky:
Originally Posted By phatmax:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Does anyone have any idea how fast (ground speed) they may have been moving when they hit the trees? I am betting around 55 MPH. I am thinking he bled a lot of speed yanking back. It may have been even lower, around 45. Actually, I'm guessing more like 65 to 70. They were not in a full stall when they hit and the Stinson 108-3 has a stall speed of 65mph. I kinda felt like they hit that magic zone of flying below the stall speed, with the engine running full tilt. I have gotten a couple cessnas into some really low speed mushes (at altitude and intentionally) where the plane should have broken into a full stall, but just flat refused. It could be the level of damage is from impacting flexible trees that acted like a net barrier on an aircraft carrier. I have seen a few wrecks up close that the impact was a pretty low speeds and no real solid objects hit, and the planes were just about as crunched up. |
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underdogII
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Posted: 8/8/2012 1:03:07 PM
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By AZ_Sky:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
. This Link will take you to the pilots operating handbook (POH) for a Cessna 152. All aircraft have one of these. You can take a look starting a page 25 to see the typical performance charts that pilots use to determine if take-off and landing will have a happy ending.... There's no excuse for not knowing if the aircraft can perform in any given situation! Wow, it's all right there, right down to the amount of fuel consumed during takeoff. I guess if one simply devotes the time to look it up you have all the physics you need to account for most every variable and contingency. It sounds to me as if the "no old bold pilots" refers to simply taking time and attention to details of this sort. REMEMBER, that's for a BRAND NEW aircraft tuned for perfection by the factory. Doesn't take into account worn engine, prop, out of rig, dirt, grime, so on and so on. |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 1:08:05 PM
Originally Posted By underdogII:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By AZ_Sky:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
. This Link will take you to the pilots operating handbook (POH) for a Cessna 152. All aircraft have one of these. You can take a look starting a page 25 to see the typical performance charts that pilots use to determine if take-off and landing will have a happy ending.... There's no excuse for not knowing if the aircraft can perform in any given situation! Wow, it's all right there, right down to the amount of fuel consumed during takeoff. I guess if one simply devotes the time to look it up you have all the physics you need to account for most every variable and contingency. It sounds to me as if the "no old bold pilots" refers to simply taking time and attention to details of this sort. REMEMBER, that's for a BRAND NEW aircraft tuned for perfection by the factory. Doesn't take into account worn engine, prop, out of rig, dirt, grime, so on and so on. And all the bullshit spewed by the pilot, piled up under the seats. |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 1:11:02 PM
suprised those trees gave like they did.
seems like they would have won the fight with a thin skinned plane |
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TheRedGoat
The bad influence...
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Posted: 8/8/2012 1:16:05 PM
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By phatmax:
Originally Posted By danpass:
Despite my studying I always wonder with these situations ........... why would it gain 70ft of altitude but not 140ft? It is outside of ground effect, but it was on the absolute edge of its performance envelope. If he had more HP, or a prop with a different pitch to produce more actual propulsion, eg, speed, he could have increased the airflow over the wings and gained more altitude. A/c was maxed out and after watching that run, I am amazed it made it off the ground. The lack of talking on the pilot's side MAY be that he had a headset on as well as the pax, and you don't need to shout to be heard, and the camera was only picking up ambient noise. Light aircraft are noisy. OLD light aircraft are extremely noisy. While he did get further up than ground effect I would expect that it was because he got enough speed up during the effect to get some climb, right up until he saw the trees and pulled up until he burned off his speed and started getting into power on stalls with no power or altitute to spare. Yeah, 'ground effect' is related to wingspan, so, unless he had a 140' wingspan, he should not have any ground effect. I'd agree that it might have helped him get airborn, and make him believe he 'got this' under control. It looked, to me, like he was barely able to climb, he was trying to turn to the right, and the additional drag from the maneuver caused him to begin to cut his margin too close. When he went over the trees, that could have caused a change in temperature and humidity in the outside air, but, I betcha that little plane was also filled with hiking gear, cameras, extra batteries, camp food, water... Too much weight, too little HP, done. TRG |
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FunYun1983
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Posted: 8/8/2012 1:16:52 PM
Originally Posted By bigrob88:
suprised those trees gave like they did. seems like they would have won the fight with a thin skinned plane Well, that plane aint flying no more, so I would say the trees won. |
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TheRedGoat
The bad influence...
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Joined: Jan 2001 TX, USA
Posts: 39823 Feedback: 100% (13) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/8/2012 1:20:04 PM
Originally Posted By bigrob88:
suprised those trees gave like they did. seems like they would have won the fight with a thin skinned plane Looked like some of them had been standing dead for a while. TRG |
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BillofRights
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Joined: Jul 2001 USA
Posts: 22091 Feedback: 100% (10) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/8/2012 1:24:58 PM
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Thanks, guys. So if I ever have to fly and the pilot just jumps in and fires it up and says, Let's go!" I need to flee. But flying a reciprocating aircraft in mountainous areas is sketchy at best.
Many airports actually have an automatic recording that says "density altitude is 9200 feet". Or the recording says "check density Altitude" This pilot made several mistakes. Overloaded, didn't abort, then continued to fly toward rising terrain. |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 1:25:38 PM
Originally Posted By underdogII:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By AZ_Sky:
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
. This Link will take you to the pilots operating handbook (POH) for a Cessna 152. All aircraft have one of these. You can take a look starting a page 25 to see the typical performance charts that pilots use to determine if take-off and landing will have a happy ending.... There's no excuse for not knowing if the aircraft can perform in any given situation! Wow, it's all right there, right down to the amount of fuel consumed during takeoff. I guess if one simply devotes the time to look it up you have all the physics you need to account for most every variable and contingency. It sounds to me as if the "no old bold pilots" refers to simply taking time and attention to details of this sort. REMEMBER, that's for a BRAND NEW aircraft tuned for perfection by the factory. Doesn't take into account worn engine, prop, out of rig, dirt, grime, so on and so on. Performance charts are written by the marketing department. Add a safety margin to anything in the POH/AFM.
Not only is it a new plane, but it is a professional test pilot running the tests. Those guys know density altitude and how to calculate it. Ariplanes can, have, and will kill for even the simplest mistakes. |
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CFII
Kiowa Driver
Industry Partner
Joined: Oct 2002 AL, USA
Posts: 13711 Feedback: 100% (19) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/8/2012 1:27:19 PM
Epic Fail.
That thing had a fucking ground roll like a 727 at Denver International. What a douche. That old pilot = good pilot saying is such horseshit. Dude, its called Performance Planning. Its in the fucking POH. |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 1:31:52 PM
Reminds me of an earlier time as a young [naive] pilot.
I was taking my buddy up in a 152. I was "normal" size back then. He was a "big" guy, but I really was naive about how much people weigh. We start our takeoff roll at BIL (10,000' runway) and I'm just not getting this little tin can to pop off the runway. Every time I pull back on the yoke, the creepy, goat-dying stall warning horn blares. Finally, about 1/3 of the way down the runway I call Tower and tell them I'm aborting takeoff (don't remember what reason I gave them, if any). I taxi off the run way, hit the brakes and ask my buddy "so... uh... HOW much do you weigh?" He responds, "320#". LOL!!! That's an entire pax load for a 152! Geesh. Live and learn... (and thankfully, I DID live and learn) |
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hondaciv
5-4
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Joined: Apr 2007 TX, USA
Posts: 20123 Feedback: 100% (57) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/8/2012 1:35:12 PM
[Last Edit: 8/8/2012 1:35:35 PM by hondaciv]
Looks like he was airborne at about 51 seconds (barely), and 10 seconds later, the wheels hit the ground again.
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Ben762
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Joined: Mar 2006 OR, USA
Posts: 4069 Feedback: 100% (43) Link To This Post |
Posted: 8/8/2012 1:36:32 PM
Woop woop terrain terrain pull up pull up.
Lucky they didn't get kebab'd on the way down. |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 1:38:28 PM
Originally Posted By Red_Label:
Reminds me of an earlier time as a young [naive] pilot. I was taking my buddy up in a 152. I was "normal" size back then. He was a "big" guy, but I really was naive about how much people weigh. We start our takeoff roll at BIL (10,000' runway) and I'm just not getting this little tin can to pop off the runway. Every time I pull back on the yoke, the creepy, goat-dying stall warning horn blares. Finally, about 1/3 of the way down the runway I call Tower and tell them I'm aborting takeoff (don't remember what reason I gave them, if any). I taxi off the run way, hit the brakes and ask my buddy "so... uh... HOW much do you weigh?" He responds, "320#". LOL!!! That's an entire pax load for a 152! Geesh. Live and learn... (and thankfully, I DID live and learn) His left asscheek in your lap didn't give it away? |
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