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 hondaciv
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Posted: 8/8/2012 10:49:50 AM
[Last Edit: 8/8/2012 10:54:15 AM by hondaciv]
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT This is unprecedented footage of a small airplane crash from inside the cockpit from two different views. Miraculously, everyone survived. The pilot will make a full recovery and both passengers escaped with superficial injuries and feel very lucky to be alive . ADHD, crash at 2:44 |
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BURN
Taco Hack
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Posted: 8/8/2012 10:51:18 AM
[Last Edit: 8/8/2012 10:53:50 AM by BURN]
what do you mean US?
were you on that flight? or is that just a quote? the video itself at least without sound is osmething to watch...i will watch it with sound later.. |
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Kalahnikid
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Posted: 8/8/2012 10:55:18 AM
[Last Edit: 8/8/2012 10:58:08 AM by Kalahnikid]
Density altitude is a bitch.
eta: Looks like maybe a stinson 108 or maule? |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 10:56:46 AM
Is that an old Stinson ?
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Posted: 8/8/2012 10:56:47 AM
Looks like excess weight in the fuselage...
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Molotov357
Capitalist pig-dog
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Posted: 8/8/2012 10:57:37 AM
Not enough power for that much weight.
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Posted: 8/8/2012 10:58:50 AM
Originally Posted By BURN:
what do you mean US? were you on that flight? or is that just a quote? the video itself at least without sound is osmething to watch...i will watch it with sound later.. It was just a quote, and there wasn't much sound there. Surprisingly nobody said a word the entire time. |
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Hugo_Stiglitz
Everyone in the German army has heard of
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:02:10 AM
[Last Edit: 8/8/2012 11:06:11 AM by Hugo_Stiglitz]
Density altitude.
Should have had a better handle on the weather that day. Blue skies are pretty, but here's proof that in some places that pretty sky will try to kill ya. ETA, He was over open ground when he started having troubles, he never should have maintained his bearing into those trees in my opinion. |
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FunYun1983
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:04:54 AM
He had a hard time gaining altitude from start.
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Brownie63
Pre-Obama Chevys Only
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:05:16 AM
High temps and overweight. They were behind the power curve.
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Renegade13B
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:05:35 AM
Originally Posted By Molotov357:
Not enough power for that much weight. Looked like it. It seemed to have a hard time taking off. |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:09:46 AM
10 bucks says they were too heavy. idiots.
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:10:49 AM
NTSB Identification: WPR12LA283 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation Accident occurred Saturday, June 30, 2012 in Stanley, ID Aircraft: STINSON 108, registration: N773C Injuries: 1 Serious,3 Minor. This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. On June 30, 2012, about 1405 mountain daylight time, a Stinson 108-3, N773C, was substantially damaged after impacting terrain during initial climb near the Bruce Meadows Airport (U63), Stanley, Idaho. The certified commercial pilot sustained serious injuries, and the three passengers sustained minor injuries. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed for the local flight, which was being operated in accordance with 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91, and a flight plan was not filed. The flight was destined for the McCall Municipal Airport (MYL), McCall, Idaho. In a telephone interview with the National Transportation Safety Board investigator-in-charge, the passenger who occupied the right rear seat reported that after taking off the pilot flew straight out for about three or four minutes, but the airplane would only ascend to about 60 to 70 feet above the tops of the trees. The passenger stated that the airplane started losing altitude and experienced a downdraft, which was followed by its wings impacting the tops of the surrounding trees. The airplane subsequently came down through the trees before impacting terrain inverted and sliding to a stop. The airplane was recovered to a secured storage facility for further examination. |
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pilotman
My parrot is smarter than your honor student
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:11:34 AM
Because climb and takeoff performance data is for squares.
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:17:29 AM
Originally Posted By FunYun1983:
He had a hard time gaining altitude from start. That take off roll was like a mile. I'm just a PPSEL here, and flying in Colorado, A. I would've know the capabilities of my aircraft, and B. I would've aborted when I saw the thing didn't want to leave the ground. |
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JIMBEAM
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:18:42 AM
I didnt watch it all. Did those tools call for help or just continue recording the event?
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:19:32 AM
I wonder how many hours the pilot had, and in what.
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:23:13 AM
Originally Posted By Him:
I wonder how many hours the pilot had, and in what. Said he had his commercial, so at least roughly 200 hours on top of his private. Guy looked older, so I'd guess more. |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:25:15 AM
The Pilot owns multiple aircraft, so you would think he would be experienced.
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Kalahnikid
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:27:14 AM
Originally Posted By TZLVredmist:
The Pilot owns multiple aircraft, so you would think he would be experienced. Maybe he flies the other ones all the time and they have turbocharged engines and climb props. |
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Silver_Surfer
I4NI
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:28:59 AM
Looks like the plane didn't even lift off after the end of the runway
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pilotman
My parrot is smarter than your honor student
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:29:08 AM
[Last Edit: 8/8/2012 11:42:26 AM by pilotman]
Originally Posted By TZLVredmist:
The Pilot owns multiple aircraft, so you would think he would be experienced would have a lot of money and toys and little to no experience a la the 1970s, doctors and beech bonanzas. And boy do i stand corrected. Public database searches return two aircraft for that owner; a cessna 150 and the stinson 108 in the video. Registered owner is a commercial pilot with singe and multiengine airplane, rotorcraft helicopter and instrument ratings. A news article lists the registered owner as the pilot, and also names another person as co pilot however a search of the database did not return any hits for that name with a current medical certificate. |
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JustinOK34
The bottled beer taste, in a can.
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:32:08 AM
Unbelievable. My guess is its not the first time that yahoo took off without performing any kind of takeoff data/weight & balance.
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:35:39 AM
Originally Posted By Him:
I wonder how many hours the pilot had, and in what. He was an older guy, but he did appear to try and "be bold" in a desperate attempt not to get any older. He had AMPLE warning that shit was not going his way and AMPLE places to land. Lucky those were soft trees and not a bunch of old growth. whatta fuckup. |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:37:14 AM
Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Unbelievable. My guess is its not the first time that yahoo took off without performing any kind of takeoff data/weight & balance. I can make it!!! GottaGetThere-itis STRIKES AGAIN! If you are flying and say to others or yourself, "Fuck it, I can make it!"......STOP what ever the fuck you are planning and DON'T DO IT. |
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VoodooChile
Just Smile and Wave Boys
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:38:36 AM
Never seen it like that before...had a friend die in a small plane crash awhile back...there was cockpit video but I never saw it
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TheRedGoat
The bad influence...
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:39:38 AM
Originally Posted By JIMBEAM:
I didnt watch it all. Did those tools call for help or just continue recording the event? Who they gonna call in the middle of the backwoods? TRG |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:39:38 AM
Dumb SHOULD hurt . Those guys are lucky to still have lives .
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thebeekeeper1
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:40:10 AM
Originally Posted By phatmax:
Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Unbelievable. My guess is its not the first time that yahoo took off without performing any kind of takeoff data/weight & balance. I can make it!!! GottaGetThere-itis STRIKES AGAIN! If you are flying and say to others or yourself, "Fuck it, I can make it!"......STOP what ever the fuck you are planning and DON'T DO IT. Is it common for the pilot to be so quiet during an obvious bad time? It seems something like "Hold on––we're going in!" would at least be reflexive. The dead silence was disconcerting to me.  |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:40:28 AM
[Last Edit: 8/8/2012 11:45:09 AM by popsickles]
Originally Posted By Brownie63:
High temps and overweight. They were behind the power curve. This is the second video Ive seen like this, the first guy didn't survive. 
ETA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzDSq6m2zV4 Crash near end of video |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:41:58 AM
[Last Edit: 8/8/2012 11:43:56 AM by danpass]
Despite my studying I always wonder with these situations ........... why would it gain 70ft of altitude if its not going to hit 140ft? The density altitude between those two heights is miniscule.
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NoVaGator
No longer in NoVa
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:42:21 AM
My FIL has a Stinson 108-1....I sent him the vid
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Dr_Octagon
My 7XL is not yet invented...
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:43:05 AM
MMQB checking in here. There was no downdraft. Overweight plane with a pilot who slowly lost altitude by losing speed because he nosed up to avoid the trees. Decisions. Too much ass. Too long of a roll. Too slow of a climb. Too much nose up when staying level would have been better. Scary as fuck.
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glklvr
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:43:18 AM
Accoring to Stanley, ID's altitude and the DA table on Wiki he would have been at the equivalent of 10K feet ASL when he tookoff.
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NoVaGator
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:43:31 AM
Originally Posted By Gastard:
Dumb SHOULD hurt . Those guys are lucky to still have lives . dumb did hurt the pilot the most, so all's good |
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Dr_Octagon
My 7XL is not yet invented...
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:43:33 AM
[Last Edit: 8/8/2012 11:43:56 AM by Dr_Octagon]
Hangfire double tap.
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thebeekeeper1
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:43:48 AM
Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Unbelievable. My guess is its not the first time that yahoo took off without performing any kind of takeoff data/weight & balance. Someone else mentioned "high temps"––does that mean that during times of high ambient temperatures the less dense air doesn't provide as much lift? That seems obvious, but can such things be calculated accurately in order to avoid this kind of thing? Obviously I know nothing about flying––except I don't want to crash. I know that much.  |
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pilotman
My parrot is smarter than your honor student
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:44:56 AM
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Unbelievable. My guess is its not the first time that yahoo took off without performing any kind of takeoff data/weight & balance. Someone else mentioned "high temps"末does that mean that during times of high ambient temperatures the less dense air doesn't provide as much lift? That seems obvious, but can such things be calculated accurately in order to avoid this kind of thing? Obviously I know nothing about flying末except I don't want to crash. I know that much. Yes and yes. The aircraft flight manual has tables showing performance for varying altitudes and temperatures, in addition to weight and balance data. |
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SmilingBandit
Damn these electric sex pants!
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:44:56 AM
Originally Posted By danpass:
Despite my studying I always wonder with these situations ........... why would it gain 70ft of altitude if its not going to hit 140ft? The density altitude between those two heights is miniscule. Ground effect. |
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Kalahnikid
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:45:15 AM
[Last Edit: 8/8/2012 11:47:28 AM by Kalahnikid]
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Unbelievable. My guess is its not the first time that yahoo took off without performing any kind of takeoff data/weight & balance. Someone else mentioned "high temps"末does that mean that during times of high ambient temperatures the less dense air doesn't provide as much lift? That seems obvious, but can such things be calculated accurately in order to avoid this kind of thing? Obviously I know nothing about flying末except I don't want to crash. I know that much. Less oxygen to burn in combustion = lower RPM's. Less air for the wings, less air for the prop to bite into Yes, it can be calculated to avoid those annoying crashes. |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:46:06 AM
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By danpass:
Despite my studying I always wonder with these situations ........... why would it gain 70ft of altitude if its not going to hit 140ft? The density altitude between those two heights is miniscule. Ground effect. ah, thanks.  |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:46:52 AM
Originally Posted By danpass:
Despite my studying I always wonder with these situations ........... why would it gain 70ft of altitude but not 140ft? It is outside of ground effect, but it was on the absolute edge of its performance envelope. If he had more HP, or a prop with a different pitch to produce more actual propulsion, eg, speed, he could have increased the airflow over the wings and gained more altitude. A/c was maxed out and after watching that run, I am amazed it made it off the ground. The lack of talking on the pilot's side MAY be that he had a headset on as well as the pax, and you don't need to shout to be heard, and the camera was only picking up ambient noise. Light aircraft are noisy. OLD light aircraft are extremely noisy. |
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thebeekeeper1
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:47:22 AM
Thanks, guys. So if I ever have to fly and the pilot just jumps in and fires it up and says, Let's go!" I need to flee.
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glklvr
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:47:46 AM
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Unbelievable. My guess is its not the first time that yahoo took off without performing any kind of takeoff data/weight & balance. Someone else mentioned "high temps"末does that mean that during times of high ambient temperatures the less dense air doesn't provide as much lift? That seems obvious, but can such things be calculated accurately in order to avoid this kind of thing? Obviously I know nothing about flying末except I don't want to crash. I know that much. Check the wiki article on density altitude. The formula is there. |
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underdogII
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:49:33 AM
Originally Posted By Dr_Octagon:
Hangfire double tap. I flew over that airport in a Mooney one summer, Thought about landing eeh. went to Sun Valley instead. It was warm and watched a Lear do a little wing rock on take off. |
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SmilingBandit
Damn these electric sex pants!
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:49:51 AM
Originally Posted By danpass:
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By danpass:
Despite my studying I always wonder with these situations ........... why would it gain 70ft of altitude if its not going to hit 140ft? The density altitude between those two heights is miniscule. Ground effect. ah, thanks. Page 5-7 gives a good explination of it. http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraft/airplane_handbook/media/faa-h-8083-3a-3of7.pdf |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:51:02 AM
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Unbelievable. My guess is its not the first time that yahoo took off without performing any kind of takeoff data/weight & balance. Someone else mentioned "high temps"末does that mean that during times of high ambient temperatures the less dense air doesn't provide as much lift? That seems obvious, but can such things be calculated accurately in order to avoid this kind of thing? Obviously I know nothing about flying末except I don't want to crash. I know that much. Yup. You can even tell a difference in a non-scientific manner. When you go for a run in 95 deg. temps versus 40 deg. temps, your body will get more O2 as a component of "thicker" air, just like cars engines perform better in cold, because the fuel/air mixture is better. As has been stated, there are clear formulas for calculating the air density for any given situation and you need to abide by the laws of nature and physics. A Cessna 152 at 80 degrees can be a fucking pig. The same exact plane in 40 degrees can be a blast. |
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AZ_Sky
Living vicariously through myself
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:51:34 AM
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Unbelievable. My guess is its not the first time that yahoo took off without performing any kind of takeoff data/weight & balance. Someone else mentioned "high temps"末does that mean that during times of high ambient temperatures the less dense air doesn't provide as much lift? That seems obvious, but can such things be calculated accurately in order to avoid this kind of thing? Obviously I know nothing about flying末except I don't want to crash. I know that much. Absolutely such things can be calculated accurately, and then checked against the aircraft performance charts. |
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SmilingBandit
Damn these electric sex pants!
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:52:20 AM
Originally Posted By phatmax:
Originally Posted By danpass:
Despite my studying I always wonder with these situations ........... why would it gain 70ft of altitude but not 140ft? It is outside of ground effect, but it was on the absolute edge of its performance envelope. If he had more HP, or a prop with a different pitch to produce more actual propulsion, eg, speed, he could have increased the airflow over the wings and gained more altitude. A/c was maxed out and after watching that run, I am amazed it made it off the ground. The lack of talking on the pilot's side MAY be that he had a headset on as well as the pax, and you don't need to shout to be heard, and the camera was only picking up ambient noise. Light aircraft are noisy. OLD light aircraft are extremely noisy. While he did get further up than ground effect I would expect that it was because he got enough speed up during the effect to get some climb, right up until he saw the trees and pulled up until he burned off his speed and started getting into power on stalls with no power or altitute to spare. |
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:53:18 AM
Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
Originally Posted By danpass:
Despite my studying I always wonder with these situations ........... why would it gain 70ft of altitude if its not going to hit 140ft? The density altitude between those two heights is miniscule. Ground effect. I was always taught that ground effect was always at it's "best" from zero to half a wingspan above the ground and once past a full wingspan AGL, the effect was pretty much gone, especially the slower the aircraft. Of course, this bozo could have been bouncing in and out of ground effect, the wide-angle lens does not help height judgement. |
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SmilingBandit
Damn these electric sex pants!
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:53:59 AM
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
Thanks, guys. So if I ever have to fly and the pilot just jumps in and fires it up and says, Let's go!" I need to flee. Not necessarly. I know without looking that you and I can hop into the 182 and go for a flight with no performance issues. Now if two of your friends wanted to come along I'd spend more time looking at the charts.  |
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