Load it with broken glass and thumbtacks

I own 5

Buckshot at 60 yards.

Fuck that.

That is why pumps are good for this type of use.

Ohio's "Gun Season", is slug guns, handguns and muzzleloaders. Lots of dedicated slug guns around here. I have a rifled slug barrel with a cantilever scope mount w/ scope mounted, which I put on one of my hunting Mossberg M500's every year. Slap the barrel on, take a few shots, and it's zeroed.

I have seen many more people shortstoke a pump than autos have failures due to insufficient power.

Have you really, what are you a fly on the wall during home invasions

Nope, but if people shortstroke their pump out on the skeet range or dove field or during a tactical shotgun course, I have a feeling they just may also when under a TRUE high stress situation. As always, training reins supreme.

Funny, Must be a CA thing because we do not do that crap
here in Fl.

I love pump guns, and they are all I shoot. However, as a director and SO of a tactical rifle and shotgun program, I have seen a TON of short-stroking. The bottom line is that if you choose to shoot a pump, you better become very good. Occasional shooting doesn't build the muscle memory.

That's what the government would want us to believe.
That somehow one needs to be some tactical super-trained
shooter to be able to defend our lives and our property.

Yet the hundreds of thousands justifiable use of deadly force
and firearm engagements reported every year reveals that
the average Joe (including females and senior citizens) did
not spend hours and hours of training and tactical classes to
successfully confront violent criminals during home invasions.
A lot of times they don't even fire a shot.

Do they make dragon's breath in .410? Put that in a judge and the fail would be so strong it might warp the fabric of space-time.

Slugs.

Because fuck it.

We are talking about something very specific here: the manipulation of pump shotguns, and the VERY common user-induced malfunction, "the short-stroke".

I really have no idea why you bring the government into this. Who gives a shit about what they think on the topic. Regardless of your government conspiracy theories, I've seen this user-induced malfunction many, many times, by people that only rarely shoot pump guns, under the relatively "mild" stress of a shooting competition.

Your citation of hundreds of thousands of uses of deadly force includes everything from .22 derringers, to AR15's. Do people get lucky sometimes, and get away with poor training, and a crappy choice of gun / ammunition? Of course they do. Does that mean we should ignore a very common problem with a very common home defense gun? Of course not. Choose an effective weapon. Learn its advantages and disadvantages. Train hard, to minimize it's disadvantages. With a pump shotgun, that means running that pump hard, often, and under weird circumstances (shooting weak hand, while moving in awkward ways, etc.)

By the same token, to say I am a fan of double action revolvers, would be a huge understatement. I shoot a 45 year old N frame revolver in IDPA competitions, and have many tens of thousands or rounds downrange, out of double action revolvers. That said, I go against the conventional wisdom, and I only recommend double action revolvers for new shooters for self defense, if they make a very strong committment to training hard and often. The reality is that a brand new shooter, especially a woman or an older person, has to put in a LOT of time, pulling double action triggers, before they have mastered it. Just like pumping a pump shotgun, it isn't always as easy as it looks.

Very few doves are shooting back at you.

Here is my Son on his 3rd time shooting skeet when he was 16. No short
stroking here.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v655/banditman1/?action=view&current=IMG_0679.mp4

No, I was just making a point that if you grew up using a pump shotgun, you're going to be good at it. Muscle memory, like the guy above who sees people short stroke during training was saying.

People who attend training who short stroke do so because the pump shotgun is not familiar to them as walking. A baby has to learn how to walk. Until then, it's clumsy as hell.

My one advise though is thatwhatever shotgun you choose, be it automatic or pump, stick with it. Because you'll try to pump an auto or forget to pump (or possibly short stroke) a pump otherwise.

When somebody is good at pump, it's bam, click click, bam click click, bam click click, as fast as an auto.

Heard Massad Ayoob say #1 is ideal, followed by a bunch of stats I can't remember.....good enough for me.

more importantly, O_P says it's ideal, and that should be good enough for everyone.

LOL
Thank you, I needed a good laugh.


Anyway, to contribute to this never ending debate. I say #1 or larger shot, in whatever format you prefer. Personally I prefer the lighter recoiling loads for faster follow ups and potentially less than ideal shooting positions. At the probably range of 10' or so the difference is not likely to matter to anyone hit when compared to even a full power magnum load. I would still vote for the AR instead, but it's not like the shotgun is a poor choice and shotguns certainly have a place in the defensive armory.

Actually, you can blow through a hundred rounds of ammo during an afternoon of dove hunting very easily. If you've ever been surprised by a few, you know that they'll have you shooting in some odd positions as well.

That's exactly what I say.

Fuck all of that patterning shit.

Slugs are fun at the range, why not have fun
putting one up a perps six.

I don't know, but this looks interdasting.

Thanks, I guess I fat fingered it on my phone.

Once again, wingshooting is not comparable to the defensive use of a shotgun.

You do learn some basic manipulation if you use the exact same shotgun, but it ends there.

I've never short-stroked in the field, but I have when running defensive drills.

Are you running defensive drills in your home?