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 bcw107
RIP SSG Juan M Solorio
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Posted: 8/7/2012 5:25:16 PM
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
On a serious note, the amount of bad advice given in this thread is depressing. The question is not really open to debate. It is settled fact. Read and learn: Shotgun Ammo FAQs If you don't know what you are talking about, then don't post. Until I see it in calibrated ordnance gelatin, #1 buck is for shooting milk jugs and IPSC targets, 00 is for shooting people. |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 5:26:51 PM
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
On a serious note, the amount of bad advice given in this thread is depressing. The question is not really open to debate. It is settled fact. Read and learn: Shotgun Ammo FAQs If you don't know what you are talking about, then don't post. Good read |
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Old_Painless
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Posted: 8/7/2012 5:33:21 PM
Originally Posted By bcw107:
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
On a serious note, the amount of bad advice given in this thread is depressing. The question is not really open to debate. It is settled fact. Read and learn: Shotgun Ammo FAQs If you don't know what you are talking about, then don't post. Until I see it in calibrated ordnance gelatin, #1 buck is for shooting milk jugs and IPSC targets, 00 is for shooting people. It has been shot into calibrated ballistics gelatin. It meets or exceeds the FBI standards. |
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Schlange
Still Angry
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Posted: 8/7/2012 5:35:46 PM
Originally Posted By SV650Squid: #1 Flitecontrol buck If you can't find that, #00 Flite control buck Yep |
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Schlange
Still Angry
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Posted: 8/7/2012 5:37:45 PM
Originally Posted By ShotTherapy_JR: A full choke and either birdshot or buckshot depending on the situation  |
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Old_Painless
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Posted: 8/7/2012 5:38:55 PM
Originally Posted By ShotTherapy_JR:
A full choke and either birdshot or buckshot depending on the situation You ought to be ashamed posting such foolishness on a gun forum. You may be responsible for getting someone killed, if they follow your very bad advice. |
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sel366
Pie Taste Tester Champion 43 years Running
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Posted: 8/7/2012 5:39:56 PM
Pics of wife and/or girlfriend holding said shotgun?
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bcw107
RIP SSG Juan M Solorio
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Posted: 8/7/2012 5:40:40 PM
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Originally Posted By bcw107:
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
On a serious note, the amount of bad advice given in this thread is depressing. The question is not really open to debate. It is settled fact. Read and learn: Shotgun Ammo FAQs If you don't know what you are talking about, then don't post. Until I see it in calibrated ordnance gelatin, #1 buck is for shooting milk jugs and IPSC targets, 00 is for shooting people. It has been shot into calibrated ballistics gelatin. It meets or exceeds the FBI standards. Yes you keep saying that. I'd like to see it myself. Do you have a link to any documentation? |
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Old_Painless
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Posted: 8/7/2012 5:41:43 PM
Originally Posted By bcw107:
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Originally Posted By bcw107:
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
On a serious note, the amount of bad advice given in this thread is depressing. The question is not really open to debate. It is settled fact. Read and learn: Shotgun Ammo FAQs If you don't know what you are talking about, then don't post. Until I see it in calibrated ordnance gelatin, #1 buck is for shooting milk jugs and IPSC targets, 00 is for shooting people. It has been shot into calibrated ballistics gelatin. It meets or exceeds the FBI standards. Yes you keep saying that. I'd like to see it myself. Do you have a link to any documentation? Dr. Roberts did the tests. |
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VTHOKIESHOOTER
Foresters do it in the woods كاف
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Posted: 8/7/2012 5:43:30 PM
I use Federal High Brass 00 Buck in mine, with modified choke.
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hoss622
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Posted: 8/7/2012 5:44:00 PM
I recently patterned Federal Vital-Shock, 2 3/4" 12 ga. Magnum, 12 pellet 00, copper-plated (P156 00), because I'm almost all out of Federal #1 2 3/4" Magnum (no longer made). Pretty good pattern at 10 yards, which is about the longest reasonable shot inside my house. It opened up a bit at 20 yards. Out of my 20" Mossberg M590, cylinder bore:
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Posted: 8/7/2012 5:55:00 PM
[Last Edit: 8/7/2012 5:55:34 PM by ch1966]
Originally Posted By hoss622:
I recently patterned Federal Vital-Shock, 2 3/4" 12 ga. Magnum, 12 pellet 00, copper-plated (P156 00), because I'm almost all out of Federal #1 2 3/4" Magnum (no longer made). Pretty good pattern at 10 yards, which is about the longest reasonable shot inside my house. It opened up a bit at 20 yards. Out of my 20" Mossberg M590, cylinder bore: http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa144/sw625man/IMG_2406.jpg http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa144/sw625man/IMG_2407.jpg Here's Flight Control #1 Buck (LE1321B) at 30 yards out of my 18.5" fixed mod 870:  |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 5:57:24 PM
[Last Edit: 8/7/2012 5:59:25 PM by VBC]
Believe it or not it's very easy to completely miss your target shooting a shotgun with an extremely tight pattern.
It's easy to miss with a big pattern too but not as easy. A shotgun is made for quick snap shots at running (or flying) targets. Turning it into a rifle with slugs or tight patterns negates that advantage. |
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hoss622
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Posted: 8/7/2012 5:57:54 PM
Originally Posted By bcw107: Originally Posted By Old_Painless: On a serious note, the amount of bad advice given in this thread is depressing. The question is not really open to debate. It is settled fact. Read and learn: Shotgun Ammo FAQs If you don't know what you are talking about, then don't post. Until I see it in calibrated ordnance gelatin, #1 buck is for shooting milk jugs and IPSC targets, 00 is for shooting people. Here you go. The #1 buckshot is about 1/3 of the way down. http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=109958 I'm loading with 12 pellet 00 now, because the #1 Winchester ammo I have, patterns for shit. And I don't care about overpenetration. |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 5:59:24 PM
My research found that #1 Buck is the best home defense round.
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David_ESM
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Posted: 8/7/2012 6:00:15 PM
Originally Posted By VBC: A shotgun is made for quick snap shots at running targets. O rlly? 
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pale_pony
This used to be a Gentleman's game.
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Posted: 8/7/2012 6:01:39 PM
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Originally Posted By callgood:
Originally Posted By SV650Squid:
#1 Flitecontrol buck If you can't find that, #00 Flite control buck #1 buckshot is an on again off again thing around here. I have some of the last Federal 3 1/2" mag in #1 on the planet. I wish they'd resume production. It patterned well in my Benelli. They are making it again. Federal's Flight Control #1 Buckshot It is the "best of the best". Are all of the Federal "Flight Control" shells based on the same shot cup? Where do we buy this? Thanks! |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 6:02:18 PM
Originally Posted By VBC:
Believe it or not it's very easy to completely miss your target shooting a shotgun with an extremely tight pattern. It's easy to miss with a big pattern too but not as easy. A shotgun is made for quick snap shots at running targets. Turning it into a rifle with slugs or tight patterns negates that advantage. When men start running faster than coyotes I may look to open up my patterns. 
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Posted: 8/7/2012 6:05:54 PM
[Last Edit: 8/7/2012 6:13:45 PM by ch1966]
Originally Posted By pale_pony:
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Originally Posted By callgood:
Originally Posted By SV650Squid:
#1 Flitecontrol buck If you can't find that, #00 Flite control buck #1 buckshot is an on again off again thing around here. I have some of the last Federal 3 1/2" mag in #1 on the planet. I wish they'd resume production. It patterned well in my Benelli. They are making it again. Federal's Flight Control #1 Buckshot It is the "best of the best". Are all of the Federal "Flight Control" shells based on the same shot cup? Where do we buy this? Thanks! Same design but different sizes between 2 3/4" and 3". 
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Posted: 8/7/2012 6:11:23 PM
Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
Definitely #8 birdshot. Well you say that but, some manufactures have smaller diameter loads made for home defense. For example: Rem |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 6:16:05 PM
For those with the Fed Flight control how is it holding up being loaded for long periods? I had some cheaper Rem and Win 00 that mushroomed after being loaded for a long period, say 6+ months. I changed to the gov't contract Win and have not seen any signs of this. It's an important detail as I want reliable feeding.
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Old_Painless
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Posted: 8/7/2012 6:17:23 PM
Originally Posted By junker46:
Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
Definitely #8 birdshot. Well you say that but, some manufactures have smaller diameter loads made for home defense. For example: Rem Using the important-sounding name "Remington HD Ultimate Home Defense Loads" does not make birdshot work any better. No birdshot, let me repeat, NO BIRDSHOT will consistantly make the FBI minimum penetration standards. None. Use buckshot, #1 or 00. |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 6:27:41 PM
[Last Edit: 8/7/2012 6:31:28 PM by ch1966]
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
No birdshot, let me repeat, NO BIRDSHOT will consistantly make the FBI minimum penetration standards. Federal claims 14" of penetration in gel " made and stored to the FBI protocol" with PHC120BB which is high density tungsten BB. The picture is on page 47 of this year's catalog. I have seen it outpenetrate lead #4 buck with the comparison done in the same media. And I have never seen testing done with Remington's High Density "T" shot either. |
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cyborg543
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Posted: 8/7/2012 6:28:12 PM
I say 22 rimfire shot rounds FTW
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Posted: 8/7/2012 6:32:36 PM
dimes
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slappomatt
Elevator constructor
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Posted: 8/7/2012 6:39:43 PM
Originally Posted By woob44: Birdshot...yeah definitely birdshot. First post nails it. "EVERY-TIME" |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 6:52:36 PM
Originally Posted By theskuh:
dragons breath Make sure you have an extinguisher handy Yeah, but for the house, not the intruder, let that fucker burn.  |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 6:59:02 PM
Originally Posted By ch1966:
Originally Posted By VBC:
Believe it or not it's very easy to completely miss your target shooting a shotgun with an extremely tight pattern. It's easy to miss with a big pattern too but not as easy. A shotgun is made for quick snap shots at running targets. Turning it into a rifle with slugs or tight patterns negates that advantage. When men start running faster than coyotes I may look to open up my patterns. http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/38/p1010122xq.jpg Nice coyote. But to prove your point, I'm curious as to the distance that was shot at and how wide your gun/load patterns at that distance, and what size shot you used. I'm assuming it was a running shot. |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 7:11:22 PM
[Last Edit: 8/7/2012 7:21:32 PM by ch1966]
Originally Posted By VBC:
Originally Posted By ch1966:
Originally Posted By VBC:
Believe it or not it's very easy to completely miss your target shooting a shotgun with an extremely tight pattern. It's easy to miss with a big pattern too but not as easy. A shotgun is made for quick snap shots at running targets. Turning it into a rifle with slugs or tight patterns negates that advantage. When men start running faster than coyotes I may look to open up my patterns. http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/38/p1010122xq.jpg Nice coyote. But to prove your point, I'm curious as to the distance that was shot at and how wide your gun/load patterns at that distance, and what size shot you used. I'm assuming it was a running shot. I have killed them from 5 yards out to 60 some running, some walking, some standing still. You do have to lead them when they're crossing at balls out speed. And yes, I have missed from 5 yards to 60 and beyond... My point is that you need a tight pattern to be effective at distances beyond your living room. I don't subscribe to the "magic" BB theory. I want pellets on target, especially at a distance where the energy is rapidly bleeding off. Flight Control definately works for me with certain loads.... I'm pretty sure that one was killed with BB, as buckshot isn't legal here for yotes. But just like home defense, a couple of pellets from a spread pattern will not reliably do the job. Only hits count. ETA: Here's a 10 yarder. The flight control wad was stuck in it's neck!
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Sturmgewehr-JD
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Posted: 8/7/2012 7:14:18 PM
Originally Posted By 103:
M193. Second post wins |
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EXPcustom
BCT3
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Posted: 8/7/2012 7:16:53 PM
Originally Posted By Old_Painless: Hey O_P what do you think of this for a HD shotgun?
Originally Posted By callgood: Originally Posted By SV650Squid: #1 Flitecontrol buck If you can't find that, #00 Flite control buck #1 buckshot is an on again off again thing around here. I have some of the last Federal 3 1/2" mag in #1 on the planet. I wish they'd resume production. It patterned well in my Benelli. They are making it again. Federal's Flight Control #1 Buckshot It is the "best of the best". |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 7:20:26 PM
[Last Edit: 8/7/2012 7:20:52 PM by VBC]
Originally Posted By ch1966:
I have killed them from 5 yards out to 60 some running, some walking, some standing still. You do have to lead them when they're crossing at balls out speed. And yes, I have missed from 5 yards to 60 and beyond... My point is that you need a tight pattern to be effective at distances beyond your living room. I don't subscribe to the "magic" BB theory. I want pellets on target, especially at a distance where the energy is rapidly bleeding off. Flight Control definately works for me with certain loads.... I'm pretty sure that one was killed with BB, as buckshot isn't legal here for yotes. I agree, the tighter the pattern on the vital, the better the killing. But having a little bit of pattern spread willl be a little more forgiving on the aim and lead judgment. It just reduces the effective yardage. The tightest pattern possible is not the ideal pattern for short distances, or else everybody would be shooting with a full choke all the time. Even if you don't hit the vitals on the first shot, all those shot hitting the body will be breaking bones, slowing them down so you can throw another couple rounds into it. |
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Sturmgewehr-JD
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Posted: 8/7/2012 7:32:03 PM
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Originally Posted By junker46:
Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
Definitely #8 birdshot. Well you say that but, some manufactures have smaller diameter loads made for home defense. For example: Rem Using the important-sounding name "Remington HD Ultimate Home Defense Loads" does not make birdshot work any better. No birdshot, let me repeat, NO BIRDSHOT will consistantly make the FBI minimum penetration standards. None. Use buckshot, #1 or 00. You guys should really listen to O_P on this one. He has done loads (hardeefuckinghar) of testing on this stuff and knows what he is talking about. My 590A1 (which is merely a backup to the AR-15 SBR) is loaded with 00Buck Remington Tac-8. |
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XeroSasEnchros
USA, Back to back World War champs!
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Posted: 8/7/2012 7:41:31 PM
[Last Edit: 8/7/2012 7:41:48 PM by XeroSasEnchros]
12 Gauge Remington Express Managed-Recoil 00 Buck.
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Posted: 8/7/2012 7:44:00 PM
The hell with all the semantics just load it up with Rock Salt, it'll leave em burn'n..............
I here Arfcom is a big fan of birdshot.......  |
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para_frame
<=Porsche 944. Nurse Turtle.
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Posted: 8/7/2012 7:46:17 PM
Originally Posted By EXPcustom:
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Hey O_P what do you think of this for a HD shotgun?Originally Posted By callgood:
Originally Posted By SV650Squid:
#1 Flitecontrol buck If you can't find that, #00 Flite control buck #1 buckshot is an on again off again thing around here. I have some of the last Federal 3 1/2" mag in #1 on the planet. I wish they'd resume production. It patterned well in my Benelli. They are making it again. Federal's Flight Control #1 Buckshot It is the "best of the best". While I may not be up to O_P standard, I'll give you my 2 cents. that ammo is the same as the stuff you pickup at walmart in the 15 round packs for 8 bucks except for the green plastic and blackened brass. The ammo is buffered but uses fiber wadding and therefor the patterns open up quite quick. For the same or less money you can get much better ammo. |
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KampusKop
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Posted: 8/7/2012 7:48:01 PM
Originally Posted By VBC:
000 buck 3" magnum. (10) .36 caliber pellets per shot. Devastating stuff. Winchester and Federal also make a 2-3/4" 00 load with 12 pellets. (12) .32 caliber pellets per shot. 3" number 4 buck has 41 pellets per shell. Much smaller shot ofcourse... I have some of the 000 and the #4buck. |
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KampusKop
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Posted: 8/7/2012 7:50:18 PM
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Originally Posted By callgood:
Originally Posted By SV650Squid:
#1 Flitecontrol buck If you can't find that, #00 Flite control buck #1 buckshot is an on again off again thing around here. I have some of the last Federal 3 1/2" mag in #1 on the planet. I wish they'd resume production. It patterned well in my Benelli. They are making it again. Federal's Flight Control #1 Buckshot It is the "best of the best". How many pellets per shell? |
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Old_Painless
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Posted: 8/7/2012 7:53:37 PM
Originally Posted By EXPcustom:
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Hey O_P what do you think of this for a HD shotgun?Originally Posted By callgood:
Originally Posted By SV650Squid:
#1 Flitecontrol buck If you can't find that, #00 Flite control buck #1 buckshot is an on again off again thing around here. I have some of the last Federal 3 1/2" mag in #1 on the planet. I wish they'd resume production. It patterned well in my Benelli. They are making it again. Federal's Flight Control #1 Buckshot It is the "best of the best". That load is a cheap, non-Flight Contriol Wad load. It is of fairly low quality. Buy Federal FCW ammo, either #1 Buckshot or 00 Buckshot. |
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Old_Painless
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Posted: 8/7/2012 7:54:24 PM
Originally Posted By KampusKop:
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Originally Posted By callgood:
Originally Posted By SV650Squid:
#1 Flitecontrol buck If you can't find that, #00 Flite control buck #1 buckshot is an on again off again thing around here. I have some of the last Federal 3 1/2" mag in #1 on the planet. I wish they'd resume production. It patterned well in my Benelli. They are making it again. Federal's Flight Control #1 Buckshot It is the "best of the best". How many pellets per shell? As stated in the article, 15 pellets.
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Posted: 8/7/2012 7:59:07 PM
I load mine with Federal Flight Control as well. I recently purchased the Hornady Tap with it's "flight control wad" and intend on trying it out this week.
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EXPcustom
BCT3
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Posted: 8/7/2012 8:18:31 PM
Originally Posted By Old_Painless: Cool, thanks for the responce.Originally Posted By EXPcustom: Originally Posted By Old_Painless: Hey O_P what do you think of this for a HD shotgun?
Originally Posted By callgood: Originally Posted By SV650Squid: #1 Flitecontrol buck If you can't find that, #00 Flite control buck #1 buckshot is an on again off again thing around here. I have some of the last Federal 3 1/2" mag in #1 on the planet. I wish they'd resume production. It patterned well in my Benelli. They are making it again. Federal's Flight Control #1 Buckshot It is the "best of the best". That load is a cheap, non-Flight Contriol Wad load. It is of fairly low quality. Buy Federal FCW ammo, either #1 Buckshot or 00 Buckshot.  |
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TooBigToFail
They see me rollin... they hatin...
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Posted: 8/7/2012 8:31:26 PM
Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
On a serious note, the amount of bad advice given in this thread is depressing. The question is not really open to debate. It is settled fact. Read and learn: Shotgun Ammo FAQs If you don't know what you are talking about, then don't post. Good read. I've never seen it. Thanks. |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 9:20:01 PM
Is this what you mean for the FCW Ammo?
http://www.autreysarmory.com/premium-personal-defense-gauge-inch-1145-pellets-buckshot-with-flitecontrol-p-16891.html |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 9:24:41 PM
I like #4 buckshot. 4073 |
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Old_Painless
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Posted: 8/7/2012 9:29:53 PM
Originally Posted By MFP_4073:
I like #4 buckshot. 4073 #4 buckshot will sometimes fail to make the FBI minimum penetration standard. Use buckshot larger than #4. |
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45FMJoe
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Posted: 8/7/2012 9:38:34 PM
Originally Posted By Old_Painless: On a serious note, the amount of bad advice given in this thread is depressing. The question is not really open to debate. It is settled fact. Read and learn: Shotgun Ammo FAQs If you don't know what you are talking about, then don't post. Aaaaand there's the cock punch.  |
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callgood
The babnanas or your brains will be on this table
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Posted: 8/7/2012 9:52:30 PM
Unless I missed it Federal LE132-1B isn't on the Federal site and I'll be darned if I can find it using my prodigious Google foo.
I'm also waiting breathlessly for the Vltor Bren Ten, but that's another story. |
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Posted: 8/7/2012 9:56:40 PM
[Last Edit: 8/7/2012 9:57:30 PM by ch1966]
Originally Posted By callgood:
Unless I missed it Federal LE132-1B isn't on the Federal site and I'll be darned if I can find it using my prodigious Google foo. I'm also waiting breathlessly for the Vltor Bren Ten, but that's another story. I bought mine Here. |
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Banditman
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Posted: 8/7/2012 10:08:49 PM
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