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wreckinturn4
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:04:54 PM
A friend living in Georgia has inherited some guns from a family member living in New Jersey. There are multiple long guns and handguns. I don't think there are any AR's in the bunch but there are a few Garands.

School me on the best way to get them back. Do they need to be transferred through an FFL or should he pack them in the trunk and fly low?
jmzd4
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:05:41 PM
drive them down in the trunk
"Let an earthquake crumble it, let the fires rage, let it burn to fucking ash and then let the waters rise and submerge this whole rat-infested place."
sslocal
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:06:01 PM
If it were me I would pack them in a trunk and fly low. Georgia is a pretty free state so you should be good.

Anyone else?
mordecai
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:07:27 PM
Let's just say there's a right way and a better way.
Lumpy196
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:09:40 PM
Originally Posted By sslocal:
If it were me I would pack them in a trunk and fly low. Georgia is a pretty free state so you should be good.

Anyone else?




Geography quiz.

To drive from New Jersey to Georgia with an "arsenal of WWII assault weapons" you have to pass through what states? I'll give you a hint. The trip STARTS in fucking New Jersey.
Originally Posted By RustedAce:

Sometimes you just have to be a dick. Justice demands it.
74AKZ
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:12:15 PM
Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Originally Posted By sslocal:
If it were me I would pack them in a trunk and fly low. Georgia is a pretty free state so you should be good.

Anyone else?




Geography quiz.

To drive from New Jersey to Georgia with an "arsenal of WWII assault weapons" you have to pass through what states? I'll give you a hint. The trip STARTS in fucking New Jersey.


The driving if they are properly stored shouldn't be an issue.

Its the transfer across state lines without an FFL that could cause problems.

I am not sure if he is exempt from that being inherited or not ( Might depend on from whom ? ) but you might want to check.
FunYun1983
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:13:59 PM
It would probably be best to have someone box them up and ship them to a GA FFL to do the transfer.

Though I am not sure if they need to get sent from and FFL in NJ, hopefully not.

The handguns must go through a FFL in your home state. If the popo ever took a hard look at it, they will want to know how a gun bought in NJ got into GA without going through a FFL.

Also like Lumpy said, you do not want to get caught with a trunk full of guns in either NJ or NY, regardless of their legality.
sslocal
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:15:16 PM
Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Originally Posted By sslocal:
If it were me I would pack them in a trunk and fly low. Georgia is a pretty free state so you should be good.

Anyone else?




Geography quiz.

To drive from New Jersey to Georgia with an "arsenal of WWII assault weapons" you have to pass through what states? I'll give you a hint. The trip STARTS in fucking New Jersey.


I hear ya. OpSec would be very important here.
You could call the local PD but I think that might open a huge can of worms.

FunYun1983
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:15:27 PM
Originally Posted By 74AKZ:
Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Originally Posted By sslocal:
If it were me I would pack them in a trunk and fly low. Georgia is a pretty free state so you should be good.

Anyone else?




Geography quiz.

To drive from New Jersey to Georgia with an "arsenal of WWII assault weapons" you have to pass through what states? I'll give you a hint. The trip STARTS in fucking New Jersey.


The driving if they are properly stored shouldn't be an issue.

Its the transfer across state lines without an FFL that could cause problems.

I am not sure if he is exempt from that being inherited or not ( Might depend on from whom ? ) but you might want to check.


NJ and NY are notorious for not honoring FOPA, its not worth the risk.
j238
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:15:52 PM
If the popo ever took a hard look at it, they will want to know how a gun bought in NJ got into GA without going through a FFL.
.


Won't be a problem once they are here.

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mgwantob
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:17:47 PM
Originally Posted By wreckinturn4:
A friend living in Georgia has inherited some guns from a family member living in New Jersey. There are multiple long guns and handguns. I don't think there are any AR's in the bunch but there are a few Garands.

School me on the best way to get them back. Do they need to be transferred through an FFL or should he pack them in the trunk and fly low?


Store them unloaded in cases and put them in the trunk. If he is not a felon, they cannot prove nor disprove the guns belong to him. Make sure none of the pistols have hi-cap mags.
ServiceGun
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:17:58 PM
Oddly enough you only have to pick them up and bring them home.

NJ law allows transfer of inheritance firearms with no paperwork.
The important thing is you must be the legal heir.

N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.13 Firearms passing to heirs or legatees
(a) Notwithstanding the provisions of this subchapter concerning the transfer, receipt or
acquisition of a firearm, a permit to purchase a handgun or a firearms purchaser identification card
shall not be required for the passing of a firearm upon the death of an owner thereof to their heir or
legatee, whether the same be by testamentary bequest or by the laws of intestacy. A person so
acquiring ownership may retain the firearm if he or she meets the requirements of N.J.A.C. 13:54-
1.5 and 1.6.

Federal law allows transport of inherited firearms state to state no FFL's

18 USC 922
(a) It shall be unlawful -
...
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

Here's to the Army and the Navy and the battles they have won.
Here's to America's colors, the colors that never run
May the wings of liberty never lose a feather
Wang Chi & Jack Burton

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redleg13a
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:17:58 PM
If it were me, I'd put them in my car and drive to Pennsylvania and then work my way south from there.
WinstonSmith
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:18:15 PM
Originally Posted By 74AKZ:

The driving if they are properly stored shouldn't be an issue.

Its the transfer across state lines without an FFL that could cause problems.

I am not sure if he is exempt from that being inherited or not ( Might depend on from whom ? ) but you might want to check.


NJ doesn't exactly consider itself bound by pesky things like federal laws permitting safe passage through it's fiefdom by law abiding gun owners.
mgwantob
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:18:29 PM
Originally Posted By j238:
If the popo ever took a hard look at it, they will want to know how a gun bought in NJ got into GA without going through a FFL.
.


Won't be a problem once they are here.



They won't be able to tell where the guns were bought.
VTHOKIESHOOTER
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:19:50 PM
Other than what you've blabbed on a public forum, who else knows about the guns? Seriously, I would just go get them and drive back down (assuming that you have the self control to obey traffic laws).
http://nrgrc.com/
krpind
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:21:46 PM
I think there is an ATF exemption for inherited guns that allows you to take possession without a transfer from a FFL. You should be able to go take possession and ship them to yourself as long as you can legally own them in your home state.

Check with a real source before trusting me though.
ARFCOM.....Time well wasted.

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Just remember to pay it forward. If someone is in need, do something positive.
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:22:48 PM
Originally Posted By ServiceGun:
Oddly enough you only have to pick them up and bring them home.

NJ law allows transfer of inheritance firearms with no paperwork.
The important thing is you must be the legal heir.

N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.13 Firearms passing to heirs or legatees
(a) Notwithstanding the provisions of this subchapter concerning the transfer, receipt or
acquisition of a firearm, a permit to purchase a handgun or a firearms purchaser identification card
shall not be required for the passing of a firearm upon the death of an owner thereof to their heir or
legatee, whether the same be by testamentary bequest or by the laws of intestacy. A person so
acquiring ownership may retain the firearm if he or she meets the requirements of N.J.A.C. 13:54-
1.5 and 1.6.

Federal law allows transport of inherited firearms state to state no FFL's

18 USC 922
(a) It shall be unlawful -
...
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––



There ya go.
ARFCOM.....Time well wasted.

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Just remember to pay it forward. If someone is in need, do something positive.
JMD
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:23:08 PM
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Other than what you've blabbed on a public forum, who else knows about the guns? Seriously, I would just go get them and drive back down (assuming that you have the self control to obey traffic laws).


This, if you do not call attention to yourself it should not be an issue. If you are legally entitled to inherit them even under NJ law you are good to go.

Just drive over to Pennsylvania. The only state to worry about then is NJ itself.
tlnzz
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:23:58 PM
[Last Edit: 8/2/2012 1:24:54 PM by tlnzz]
Load them up and head for the closest State border. Don't let anyone see them being loaded into the trunk.
USMC6177
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:27:27 PM
Originally Posted By FunYun1983:
Originally Posted By 74AKZ:
Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Originally Posted By sslocal:
If it were me I would pack them in a trunk and fly low. Georgia is a pretty free state so you should be good.

Anyone else?




Geography quiz.

To drive from New Jersey to Georgia with an "arsenal of WWII assault weapons" you have to pass through what states? I'll give you a hint. The trip STARTS in fucking New Jersey.


The driving if they are properly stored shouldn't be an issue.

Its the transfer across state lines without an FFL that could cause problems.

I am not sure if he is exempt from that being inherited or not ( Might depend on from whom ? ) but you might want to check.


NJ and NY are notorious for not honoring FOPA, its not worth the risk.


NYC says fuck FOPA on the regular but I have not heard of anyone getting hassled in Upstate for FOPA as long as they have the firearms properly stored per the law.
skypilot
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:27:37 PM
Two choices:

They are his inheritance; no FFL is required since they are his.
That being said, you can bring them to the closest FFL or better yet have him come and pick them up(if possible) then to ship to a GA FFL of his choice.

Now geography; which is closer PA or MD? Does he have a really good reliable car? if not rent a non descript large car from Enterprise (full tank of gas)and pack them in the trunk. Make a bee line for the border, then head South. Its getting out of PRNJ that needs to be done with max Opsec, no speeding, stop signs, nothing till you cross into PA/MD.

I've done it before with trip planning, in the dark of night (minimum people) without stopping. But I know the risks and how to fly low. Admit nothing, offer nothing, deny a search request; if stopped Yes / No Officer take your ticket and move on.
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:28:01 PM
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Other than what you've blabbed on a public forum, who else knows about the guns? Seriously, I would just go get them and drive back down (assuming that you have the self control to obey traffic laws).


This, obey traffic laws. As long as you're not an idiot and smoke bath salts and rob a convenience store, you should be alright.
WhyTanFox
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:28:39 PM
Originally Posted By ServiceGun:
Oddly enough you only have to pick them up and bring them home.

That's NJ law; in this case there is an inter-state transfer.

xenophon21
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:28:57 PM

Originally Posted By tlnzz:
Load them up and head for the closest State border. Don't let anyone see them being loaded into the trunk.
And don't speed. And check the car to make sure it's clean like mr. Wolf did in pulp fiction. Bake lights work, etc.

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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:30:12 PM
Just drive up there and get them. As shown above, it's completely legal to do exactly that.
Don't let anybody else grind your pepper, chop your garlic or squeeze your lemons.

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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:31:11 PM
Originally Posted By xenophon21:
Bake lights work, etc.

I would not pick up firearms in a traveling growing operation.

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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:33:57 PM

Originally Posted By JMD:
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Other than what you've blabbed on a public forum, who else knows about the guns? Seriously, I would just go get them and drive back down (assuming that you have the self control to obey traffic laws).


This, if you do not call attention to yourself it should not be an issue. If you are legally entitled to inherit them even under NJ law you are good to go.

Just drive over to Pennsylvania. The only state to worry about then is NJ itself.

MD is not your friend, especially if he is driving a vehicle with GA plates. And be careful not to take 295 through DC.

I got pulled over in MD (I-95) and all the guy wanted to know is where my guns where, CHL, etc. Thus I recommend a vehicle with a trunk, not a truck or SUV.
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:34:36 PM
[Last Edit: 8/2/2012 1:38:32 PM by wreckinturn4]
A little more info. The guns are from an uncle. Aunt is still alive. I'm not sure if it's in a will or just verbal agreement. The person has an SUV so a locked trunk is not an option. There are probobly less than 20 guns in all. I suggested a rooftop cargo carrier. The person is legal and has a GA CCW permit.

ETA The vehicle is new and in good condition.
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:36:52 PM
Originally Posted By WhyTanFox:
Originally Posted By xenophon21:
Bake lights work, etc.

I would not pick up firearms in a traveling growing operation.



WhyTanFox
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:36:59 PM
Originally Posted By wreckinturn4:
A little more info. The guns are from an uncle. Aunt is still alive. I'm not sure if it's in a will or just verbal agreement. The person has an SUV so a locked trunk is not an option. There are probobly less than 20 guns in all. I suggested a rooftop cargo carrier. The person is legal and has a GA CCW permit.


Without contacting a lawyer (which has it's own expenses), the cheapest and easiest thing to do is to have the aunt/executor mail the guns to a GA local FFL.
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:38:05 PM
Originally Posted By j238:
If the popo ever took a hard look at it, they will want to know how a gun bought in NJ got into GA without going through a FFL.
.


Won't be a problem once they are here.




Yep its usually the other way around ––they want to know how guns bought in GA ended up in NY –– once you leave NJ heading south things can only get better as long as the guns are cased it should not be a problem. once you get past MD thes rest of the way is no big deal I would be more worried about getting stopped IN NJ with them.
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:42:43 PM
[Last Edit: 8/2/2012 1:44:07 PM by FMD]
Originally Posted By WhyTanFox:
Originally Posted By wreckinturn4:
A little more info. The guns are from an uncle. Aunt is still alive. I'm not sure if it's in a will or just verbal agreement. The person has an SUV so a locked trunk is not an option. There are probobly less than 20 guns in all. I suggested a rooftop cargo carrier. The person is legal and has a GA CCW permit.


Without contacting a lawyer (which has it's own expenses), the cheapest and easiest thing to do is to have the aunt/executor mail the guns to a GA local FFL.


This.

Find an FFL that will do a bulk xfer. Have Aunt May ship the guns (UPS) to that FFL. Fill out the 4473 instead of taking chances with family heirlooms.

<=The route my wife and I took when receiving multiple inherited firearms from family in NY.



ETA: Intestate succession and interstate transfer are two totally different things.
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ServiceGun
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Posted: 8/2/2012 1:52:59 PM
Originally Posted By wreckinturn4:
A little more info. The guns are from an uncle. Aunt is still alive. I'm not sure if it's in a will or just verbal agreement. The person has an SUV so a locked trunk is not an option. There are probobly less than 20 guns in all. I suggested a rooftop cargo carrier. The person is legal and has a GA CCW permit.

ETA The vehicle is new and in good condition.


Now it's a problem.

If you aren't specifically listed in the will as the inheritor of the guns, they passed to his wife, your aunt.
Per NJ law she doesn't have to fill out any paperwork, but THEY ARE NOW LEGALLY HERS, NOT YOURS.

If that's the case, proceed as with any other interstate transfer ie. have them shipped to an FFL in your home state.

Here's to the Army and the Navy and the battles they have won.
Here's to America's colors, the colors that never run
May the wings of liberty never lose a feather
Wang Chi & Jack Burton

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Posted: 8/2/2012 2:00:00 PM
Originally Posted By ServiceGun:
Originally Posted By wreckinturn4:
A little more info. The guns are from an uncle. Aunt is still alive. I'm not sure if it's in a will or just verbal agreement. The person has an SUV so a locked trunk is not an option. There are probobly less than 20 guns in all. I suggested a rooftop cargo carrier. The person is legal and has a GA CCW permit.

ETA The vehicle is new and in good condition.


Now it's a problem.

If you aren't specifically listed in the will as the inheritor of the guns, they passed to his wife, your aunt.
Per NJ law she doesn't have to fill out any paperwork, but THEY ARE NOW LEGALLY HERS, NOT YOURS.

If that's the case, proceed as with any other interstate transfer ie. have them shipped to an FFL in your home state.



Again, I agree with this. I would probably fly to New Jersey and assist her with this unless she is a pretty capable lady.
ARFCOM.....Time well wasted.

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Just remember to pay it forward. If someone is in need, do something positive.
wreckinturn4
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Posted: 8/2/2012 2:01:20 PM
Originally Posted By ServiceGun:
Originally Posted By wreckinturn4:
A little more info. The guns are from an uncle. Aunt is still alive. I'm not sure if it's in a will or just verbal agreement. The person has an SUV so a locked trunk is not an option. There are probobly less than 20 guns in all. I suggested a rooftop cargo carrier. The person is legal and has a GA CCW permit.

ETA The vehicle is new and in good condition.


Now it's a problem.

If you aren't specifically listed in the will as the inheritor of the guns, they passed to his wife, your aunt.
Per NJ law she doesn't have to fill out any paperwork, but THEY ARE NOW LEGALLY HERS, NOT YOURS.

If that's the case, proceed as with any other interstate transfer ie. have them shipped to an FFL in your home state.



Good to know. Not sure about the will yet but he was hoping to avoid the 4473's.


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Posted: 8/2/2012 2:03:00 PM
Originally Posted By sslocal:
Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Originally Posted By sslocal:
If it were me I would pack them in a trunk and fly low. Georgia is a pretty free state so you should be good.

Anyone else?




Geography quiz.

To drive from New Jersey to Georgia with an "arsenal of WWII assault weapons" you have to pass through what states? I'll give you a hint. The trip STARTS in fucking New Jersey.


I hear ya. OpSec would be very important here.
You could call the local PD but I think that might open a huge can of worms.



No shit, I'd cut straight out to PA over to 81, head south, be very careful for the 12 or so miles of MD, then enjoy the trip across Appalachia to head south. I wouldn't risk going through the large end of MD or DC.
Fat like an alligator.
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Posted: 8/2/2012 2:03:31 PM
Toss 'em in the way back and run a hunnert all the way.
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Posted: 8/2/2012 2:03:31 PM
Originally Posted By mordecai:
Let's just say there's a right way and a better way.


+1. If the guns were left to the estate, it'll be a huge PITA. If there is no paper trail (widow inheriting joint property) there will be far fewer headaches.

I mean if this goes tits up...
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Posted: 8/2/2012 2:16:19 PM
Thanks for all of the replies.
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Posted: 8/2/2012 2:17:21 PM
[Last Edit: 8/2/2012 2:18:53 PM by rxdawg]
Flight or rental car to his aunt's house, load the aunt's car with HER guns, and help her drive to GA for a family visit. Help her drive back in a few days, then get a flight or rental car back to GA.
Women and children can afford to be careless, but not men.
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Posted: 8/2/2012 2:28:49 PM
or put the guns in the trunk of aunties car while its still in the garage after carefully putting a yellow plastic flower on the antenna, and a WOBM bumper sticker on the bumper. Then dress in ugly red and yellow plaid golf slacks and wearing a slightly frumpled and stain blue knit golf shirt head gingerly towards PA. carefully drive 3 mph below the speed limit and if anyone honks the horn at you give them the finger. Have auntie fellow 8 car lengths behind you till you get to the nearest gas station or rest stop on the free side of the border, then transfer the weapons to your car and proceed home, but stay the heck out of Maryland
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Posted: 8/2/2012 2:33:19 PM
Originally Posted By coldair:
or put the guns in the trunk of aunties car while its still in the garage after carefully putting a yellow plastic flower on the antenna, and a WOBM bumper sticker on the bumper. Then dress in ugly red and yellow plaid golf slacks and wearing a slightly frumpled and stain blue knit golf shirt head gingerly towards PA. carefully drive 3 mph below the speed limit and if anyone honks the horn at you give them the finger. Have auntie fellow 8 car lengths behind you till you get to the nearest gas station or rest stop on the free side of the border, then transfer the weapons to your car and proceed home, but stay the heck out of Maryland


You can't stay out of Maryland without going to damn hear Ohio.
Fat like an alligator.
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Posted: 8/2/2012 2:39:28 PM
then he needs to transfer that yellow flower and bumper sticker on to his vehicle MD is almost as bad as the communist state of NJ
I wish I was the man my dog thinks I am
VTHOKIESHOOTER
Foresters do it in the woods كاف
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Posted: 8/2/2012 5:09:34 PM

Originally Posted By Dan_Gray:
Originally Posted By coldair:
or put the guns in the trunk of aunties car while its still in the garage after carefully putting a yellow plastic flower on the antenna, and a WOBM bumper sticker on the bumper. Then dress in ugly red and yellow plaid golf slacks and wearing a slightly frumpled and stain blue knit golf shirt head gingerly towards PA. carefully drive 3 mph below the speed limit and if anyone honks the horn at you give them the finger. Have auntie fellow 8 car lengths behind you till you get to the nearest gas station or rest stop on the free side of the border, then transfer the weapons to your car and proceed home, but stay the heck out of Maryland


You can't stay out of Maryland without going to damn hear Ohio.
The stretch of I81 that passes from Pennsylvania through Maryland is only 10 miles. It's a long 10 miles, but it's a quick way through enemy territory.

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WinstonSmith
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Posted: 8/2/2012 5:51:35 PM
Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:

Originally Posted By Dan_Gray:
Originally Posted By coldair:
or put the guns in the trunk of aunties car while its still in the garage after carefully putting a yellow plastic flower on the antenna, and a WOBM bumper sticker on the bumper. Then dress in ugly red and yellow plaid golf slacks and wearing a slightly frumpled and stain blue knit golf shirt head gingerly towards PA. carefully drive 3 mph below the speed limit and if anyone honks the horn at you give them the finger. Have auntie fellow 8 car lengths behind you till you get to the nearest gas station or rest stop on the free side of the border, then transfer the weapons to your car and proceed home, but stay the heck out of Maryland


You can't stay out of Maryland without going to damn hear Ohio.
The stretch of I81 that passes from Pennsylvania through Maryland is only 10 miles. It's a long 10 miles, but it's a quick way through enemy territory.



And if you're doing 95 when you can do 81, you probably also chew broken glass for fun.
mongreltude
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Posted: 8/2/2012 5:59:45 PM
Stop and pay attention to all State rules and regulationS.
whiskerz
I did not invent this , Al Gore did
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Posted: 8/2/2012 6:04:55 PM
Load guns in trunk and drive home. Legal and good to go. I would drive down through Pa. And Va. And the Carolinas.

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DuraToTheMax
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Posted: 8/2/2012 6:07:02 PM
[Last Edit: 8/2/2012 6:08:02 PM by DuraToTheMax]
Trunks are good, truck boxes are better.

Ain't no gettin' in there, not even to do "inventory".


Sidd
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Posted: 8/2/2012 6:10:38 PM
OMG..
Just go get them.. Take your aluminum foil hat off, and you will be OK.
Phil_A_Steen
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Posted: 8/2/2012 6:11:09 PM
The FOPA posts here are quite amusing.
Some people like seven grain bread . . . I like 55 grain lead.
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