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Posted: 7/1/2012 10:49:03 AM EDT
[#1]
From what I have read, the limits will be drawn at 133% of federal poverty level guidlines, about $15k/yr single, $26k/yr family of three. $30k/yr family of four...
So yeah, if you're making more than 133% of poverty level, they're gonna expect you to make necessary cutbacks (cars, guns, etc...) and pony up for insurance. I'll be interested to see if they're gonna tax tribal members, because The 5 Civilized Tribes have no quantum requirements whatsoever. You can be 1/1,000th% Choctaw and get free gubmint healthcare as long as your great-great-great-great's were on the Dawes Roll. This will effectively elimintate the entire state of Oklahoma from paying the tax if that is so. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 10:50:54 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: From what I have read, the limits will be drawn at 133% of federal poverty level guidlines, about $15k/yr single, $26k/yr family of three. $30k/yr family of four... So yeah, if you're making more than 133% of poverty level, they're gonna expect you to make necessary cutbacks (cars, guns, etc...) and pony up for insurance. But if you don't buy the insurance and you pay the problem solving penalty, can you go see the doctor at that point? |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 10:51:39 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
From what I have read, the limits will be drawn at 133% of federal poverty level guidlines, about $15k/yr single, $26k/yr family of three. $30k/yr family of four... So yeah, if you're making more than 133% of poverty level, they're gonna expect you to make necessary cutbacks (cars, guns, etc...) and pony up for insurance. Right, but if you refuse to do so and instead pay the fine - do you pay cash at the hospital or what? |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 10:53:19 AM EDT
[#4]
What I am concerned about is the cost of premiums. I assume they are not going to limit the premiums that the insurance companies charge. This has me worried. I can imagine increases of 200% or more.
Someone please tell me I am wrong camaro |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 10:53:30 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Quoted:
From what I have read, the limits will be drawn at 133% of federal poverty level guidlines, about $15k/yr single, $26k/yr family of three. $30k/yr family of four... So yeah, if you're making more than 133% of poverty level, they're gonna expect you to make necessary cutbacks (cars, guns, etc...) and pony up for insurance. Right, but if you refuse to do so and instead pay the fine - do you pay cash at the hospital or what? You got me, brother. I wish I knew... ...also, can you pay the fine and then get your health insurance after you've been diagnosed? I just don't know... |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 10:55:12 AM EDT
[#6]
Do ERs have to treat everyone that walks in the door now? Now that everyone has insurance they shouldn't have to treat the uninsured, right?
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Posted: 7/1/2012 10:55:53 AM EDT
[#7]
I'd love to hear the answer on this one. If it is as described below, I have NO idea why the left cheered this. It just makes their base poorer.
OccupyWallstreet: "But I just paid the tax, where's my care" Doctor: "What the fuck does it matter to me WHAT tax you've paid? Pony up the cash or insurance, or get the fuck out of my office" |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 10:56:10 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
But if you don't buy the insurance and you pay the problem solving penalty, can you go see the doctor at that point? No private practice doctor will be required to see you. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 10:57:09 AM EDT
[#9]
There are a lot less people in OK who are part Indian than most people realize. Not everyone who lives there is Indian.
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Posted: 7/1/2012 10:57:21 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
But if you don't buy the insurance and you pay the problem solving penalty, can you go see the doctor at that point? No private practice doctor will be required to see you. No, but by current law any hospital ER would be required to treat you. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 10:57:49 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Do ERs have to treat everyone that walks in the door now? Now that everyone has insurance they shouldn't have to treat the uninsured, right? Yes...under EMTALA...Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 10:57:56 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
From what I have read, the limits will be drawn at 133% of federal poverty level guidlines, about $15k/yr single, $26k/yr family of three. $30k/yr family of four... So yeah, if you're making more than 133% of poverty level, they're gonna expect you to make necessary cutbacks (cars, guns, etc...) and pony up for insurance. Right, but if you refuse to do so and instead pay the fine - do you pay cash at the hospital or what? You got me, brother. I wish I knew... ...also, can you pay the fine and then get your health insurance after you've been diagnosed? I just don't know... Well, they can't deny pre-existing stuff so yeah I guess you can go get coverage then. Seems the gov already has a plan for that. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:00:15 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
There are a lot less people in OK who are part Indian than most people realize. Not everyone who lives there is Indian. I was certainly exaggerating, but throughout the 5 tribes in Oklahoma, I'd bet that 1/4 to 1/2 of the state's population would be exempt. I'm a 'nosebleed' Choctaw (about enough CDB% to make a small nosebleed...) but I'm on the roll nonetheless. I have never even set foot inside an Indian hospital or clinic, except to visit relatives. I wonder if they're going to make me go to one when I can't afford my healthcare premiums next year when they go through the roof and I have to drop the policy. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:03:11 AM EDT
[#14]
I don't believe there is a mechanism for forcing anyone to pay the penalty. Don't know how that affects care.
If I'm not mistake, MM just mentioned buying insurance across state lines, but that will probably never happen. Crooks, the lot of them. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:04:12 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
But if you don't buy the insurance and you pay the problem solving penalty, can you go see the doctor at that point? No private practice doctor will be required to see you. No, but by current law any hospital ER would be required to treat you. Practically yes, but legally no. Any ER not accepting HHS and CMS from the federal government do not fall under EMTALA. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:04:19 AM EDT
[#16]
Your employer will be required to pony up.
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:06:14 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Your employer will be required to pony up. Currently limited to businesses >50 employees...we'll see how long it takes to get that number dropped to >5 employees (or even less...) Kind of like the way "millionaires and billionaires" suddenly meant anyone making over $100,000/yr. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:06:15 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
I don't believe there is a mechanism for forcing anyone to pay the penalty. Don't know how that affects care. If I'm not mistake, MM just mentioned buying insurance across state lines, but that will probably never happen. Crooks, the lot of them. The mechanism for requiring payment of the penalty/tax is the IRS. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:07:30 AM EDT
[#19]
I believe employers have to pay in for part time employees as well. Anyone know for sure?
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:08:22 AM EDT
[#20]
From what I heard on the radio, no, simply paying the penalty/tax does not give you health coverage.
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:08:31 AM EDT
[#21]
Who gives a shit what you do, it's all free, nobody has to pay anything ever, hooray free money! This shit reminds me of the scene at the beginning of the Arthur remake where he's standing at the ATM and it shoots out $70k while he's throwing at everyone in the strip club and yelling that free money is coming out of the fucking machine. That single scene sums up the democrat platform to me
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:12:02 AM EDT
[#22]
For some medium sized business owners, paying the $2,000 fine per worker (or whatever it is - I think that's what it is) will be cheaper (by far) than offering insurance under the new mandates.
Many accountants are advising business owners in this group to just pay the fines every year. More and more people will be tossed onto the government plan as this happens. This is going to get very interesting going forward. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:13:20 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
What I am concerned about is the cost of premiums. I assume they are not going to limit the premiums that the insurance companies charge. This has me worried. I can imagine increases of 200% or more. Someone please tell me I am wrong camaro The spartan types of plans are being cut/cancelled because they don't have all the extra bullshit that the government is requiring in a base policy. So people like me, who have pretty much a cancer or bad carwreck policy, are going to end up having to pay a shit-ton more because our policies must now have pysch, rehab, and maternity coverage. More comprehensive policies are going up because they are getting taxed. And for those of you working for small businesses who are on the mandate bubble.. they'll probably just drop your healthcare benefits and pay the fines which will be cheaper. So you won't get to keep your policy or doctor like Comrade O stated you would. And it all designed to pay for the 133% crowd so they can go on medicare aka OBAMA GUNNA PAY MAH MORTGAGE! |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:16:34 AM EDT
[#24]
I've said all along that this statute is basically unenforceable, will be abused and MASSIVE fraud will result from the refundable credits.
Parasites will be able to get it for free if they honestly use the refundable tax credits to purchase insurance. That's about as likely as ACORN becoming an above board organization. IRS will put liens on your tax account if you don't pay the penalty. People will submit fraudulent insurance policy invoices in HUGE numbers IMHO but I don't know how this will be attacked at the IRS level. No one can be prosecuted for not paying the penalty. It is a civil penalty. Anytime you want coverage you apply at an insurance company in your State and they have to cover you. Of course, premiums will go up dramatically so I don't know how MILLIONS of people who even work with families will be able to afford it. The problems will be so HUGE with the implementation of Obamacare as it stands that the commie democrats will push for a National Helath Plan and abolish private health insurance. This won't solve anything fraud wise but the libtards will automatically think this is the be all and end all. Premiums wil still increase substantially because so many people would be getting healthcare for free. America has too many stupid, unrealistic people who fail to recognize that Obamacare will further bankrupt the country, reduce healthcare quality and generally advance the largest clusterfuck statute in American history. Whenever a statute gets to 2,400 pages you KNOW it will be unsuccessful. A statute that large is, by its very size, unenforceable. 
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:18:44 AM EDT
[#25]
The fines for individuals will go up each year. Not sure about those for employers.
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:19:43 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
For some medium sized business owners, paying the $2,000 fine per worker (or whatever it is - I think that's what it is) will be cheaper (by far) than offering insurance under the new mandates. Many accountants are advising business owners in this group to just pay the fines every year. More and more people will be tossed onto the government plan as this happens. This is going to get very interesting going forward. Right. My employer pays far more than $2k for my health coverage. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:20:09 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
The fines for individuals will go up each year. Not sure about those for employers. I assume they will go up also. If they don't now, Congress will increase them as they see necessary. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:21:14 AM EDT
[#28]
Even if you are poor and get the subsidy you don't get it until you file your taxes. Hell, I'll pay the damn 700$ penalty insted of buying insurance. Sign up before I go to the doctor and quit coverage when I get home. Now that this thing is law I bet there are going to be seminars and infomercials on how to beat the system.
I love how NOBODY really knows how it works. Gonna be fun! |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:22:18 AM EDT
[#29]
Right now, about half of my extended family is laughing and saying, "We don't have to get insurance, we get free care at the Indian clinic anyway..."
I'd love to see them have to eat this too. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:22:41 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Are you serious?I'd love to hear the answer on this one. If it is as described below, I have NO idea why the left cheered this. It just makes their base poorer. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:23:24 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: For some medium sized business owners, paying the $2,000 fine per worker (or whatever it is - I think that's what it is) will be cheaper (by far) than offering insurance under the new mandates. Many accountants are advising business owners in this group to just pay the fines every year. More and more people will be tossed onto the government plan as this happens. This is going to get very interesting going forward. So where is this government plan? Is it free if you employer opted to pay the 2K penalty and you personally ended up paying the IRS penalty for not having insurance, or do they somehow make you pay for the .gov plan when you go see a doctor? |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:24:31 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
For some medium sized business owners, paying the $2,000 fine per worker (or whatever it is - I think that's what it is) will be cheaper (by far) than offering insurance under the new mandates. Many accountants are advising business owners in this group to just pay the fines every year. More and more people will be tossed onto the government plan as this happens. This is going to get very interesting going forward. Right. My employer pays far more than $2k for my health coverage. Yes, but you will supposedly buy your own insurance and those two amounts combined will supposedly equal the amount paid now. Of course premiums will continue to substantially go up every year because so many parasites will be getting insurance for free and many won't use the refundable credits to pay for insurance. This will also increase premiums for the rest of us. But you will also pay a penalty to pay for insurance if you don't buy it and hopefully that, plus your employer's penalty will make up the difference. Of course, there will be millions of people just paying penalties and how this can decrease premiums when they finally need healthcare is only something a dumbass libtard like Pelosi could ever believe. This is a 2,400 page clusterfuck statute beyond comprehension. It is doomed to failure right from the start. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:26:04 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
From what I have read, the limits will be drawn at 133% of federal poverty level guidlines, about $15k/yr single, $26k/yr family of three. $30k/yr family of four... So yeah, if you're making more than 133% of poverty level, they're gonna expect you to make necessary cutbacks (cars, guns, etc...) and pony up for insurance. But if you don't buy the insurance and you pay the problem solving penalty, can you go see the doctor at that point? Doctor says he's coming' but ya gotta pay in cash.... You'd still be covered by critical care requirements, but you'd be financially responsible yourself. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:28:20 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: I don't believe there is a mechanism for forcing anyone to pay the penalty. Don't know how that affects care. If I'm not mistake, MM just mentioned buying insurance across state lines, but that will probably never happen. Crooks, the lot of them. As I understand, It will be added to your income tax. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:29:47 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
For some medium sized business owners, paying the $2,000 fine per worker (or whatever it is - I think that's what it is) will be cheaper (by far) than offering insurance under the new mandates. Many accountants are advising business owners in this group to just pay the fines every year. More and more people will be tossed onto the government plan as this happens. This is going to get very interesting going forward. So where is this government plan? Is it free if you employer opted to pay the 2K penalty and you personally ended up paying the IRS penalty for not having insurance, or do they somehow make you pay for the .gov plan when you go see a doctor? There is no government plan. The so-called public option was dropped from the bill. If you pay the penalty it is possible to not have insurance. In which case, any costs are your direc responsibility. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:37:56 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Are you serious?
I'd love to hear the answer on this one. If it is as described below, I have NO idea why the left cheered this. It just makes their base poorer.
Whoa, there are like, more words around what you highlighted. They do things like put the highlighted phrase in context. Crazy concept, that reading and writing thing. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:38:27 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The fines for individuals will go up each year. Not sure about those for employers. I assume they will go up also. If they don't now, Congress will increase them as they see necessary. Yep that will be the first to go up. As employers are dropping coverage by the millions the .gov will want to penalize business more. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:45:16 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't believe there is a mechanism for forcing anyone to pay the penalty. Don't know how that affects care. If I'm not mistake, MM just mentioned buying insurance across state lines, but that will probably never happen. Crooks, the lot of them. The mechanism for requiring payment of the penalty/tax is the IRS. I could have heard it wrong, but thought it was said today on The McLaughlin Group. The IRS manages it but will they force payment? Source? |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:47:37 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't believe there is a mechanism for forcing anyone to pay the penalty. Don't know how that affects care. If I'm not mistake, MM just mentioned buying insurance across state lines, but that will probably never happen. Crooks, the lot of them. The mechanism for requiring payment of the penalty/tax is the IRS. I could have heard it wrong, but thought it was said today on The McLaughlin Group. The IRS manages it but will they force payment? Source? I'm almost sure it is in the 2,400 page clusterfuck statute when I randomly read a few hundred pages. Plus, the SCOTUS said it is an income tax, so it will be a liability as any other income tax liability I assume. They will put liens on your assets, garnish your wages, etc. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:55:25 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Are you serious?I'd love to hear the answer on this one. If it is as described below, I have NO idea why the left cheered this. It just makes their base poorer. Whoa, there are like, more words around what you highlighted. They do things like put the highlighted phrase in context. Crazy concept, that reading and writing thing. The context is perfectly fine. You stated that you don't understand why the left praised it when it makes their base poorer, right? I, again, ask you are you surprised that the left supported a law that would hurt it's own base? |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:55:38 AM EDT
[#41]
The people who don't pay now won't pay in the future. Those of us who do pay will pay more. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:58:02 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't believe there is a mechanism for forcing anyone to pay the penalty. Don't know how that affects care. If I'm not mistake, MM just mentioned buying insurance across state lines, but that will probably never happen. Crooks, the lot of them. The mechanism for requiring payment of the penalty/tax is the IRS. I could have heard it wrong, but thought it was said today on The McLaughlin Group. The IRS manages it but will they force payment? Source? "Hi, I am from the IRS and I am here to help." SCOTUS Ruling Means Bigger More Intrusive IRS... |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 11:58:15 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
The people who don't pay now won't pay in the future. Those of us who do pay will pay more. That's exactly right and therein lies the rub. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 12:08:29 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do ERs have to treat everyone that walks in the door now? Now that everyone has insurance they shouldn't have to treat the uninsured, right? Yes...under EMTALA...Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act. But....under this law there shouldn't be any uninsured people. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 12:16:45 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
For some medium sized business owners, paying the $2,000 fine per worker (or whatever it is - I think that's what it is) will be cheaper (by far) than offering insurance under the new mandates. Many accountants are advising business owners in this group to just pay the fines every year. More and more people will be tossed onto the government plan as this happens. This is going to get very interesting going forward. That was the whole point of their plan. It provides a greater incentive for employers to drop their health benefits and have the employees join the single payer "option" provided by the federal government. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 12:20:27 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Quoted:
For some medium sized business owners, paying the $2,000 fine per worker (or whatever it is - I think that's what it is) will be cheaper (by far) than offering insurance under the new mandates. Many accountants are advising business owners in this group to just pay the fines every year. More and more people will be tossed onto the government plan as this happens. This is going to get very interesting going forward. That was the whole point of their plan. It provides a greater incentive for employers to drop their health benefits and have the employees join the single payer "option" provided by the federal government. I don't know, someone a few posts up said there is no government plan anymore. I confess I have no fucking idea what is really in this bill - you know, kind of like Congress when they passed it. I agree with you though - the whole point of it was to accelerate the move towards full socialism in the country. All I can say is - may God help us all at this point. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 12:21:52 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Are you serious?
I'd love to hear the answer on this one. If it is as described below, I have NO idea why the left cheered this. It just makes their base poorer.
Whoa, there are like, more words around what you highlighted. They do things like put the highlighted phrase in context. Crazy concept, that reading and writing thing. The context is perfectly fine. You stated that you don't understand why the left praised it when it makes their base poorer, right? I, again, ask you are you surprised that the left supported a law that would hurt it's own base? Typically they increase the subsidies to their base. If there was no "insurance" that you automatically opted into by paying the "fine," it would be a blatant slap in the faces of their base. I know their base is full of fucking retards, but even this insult would be plain enough for them to understand. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 12:28:42 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: Do you not get who these people are? They are not do-good'ers. They want people restrained by government, keeping people in despair is what they do, it's what they believe. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Are you serious?I'd love to hear the answer on this one. If it is as described below, I have NO idea why the left cheered this. It just makes their base poorer. Whoa, there are like, more words around what you highlighted. They do things like put the highlighted phrase in context. Crazy concept, that reading and writing thing. The context is perfectly fine. You stated that you don't understand why the left praised it when it makes their base poorer, right? I, again, ask you are you surprised that the left supported a law that would hurt it's own base? Typically they increase the subsidies to their base. If there was no "insurance" that you automatically opted into by paying the "fine," it would be a blatant slap in the faces of their base. I know their base is full of fucking retards, but even this insult would be plain enough for them to understand. |
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Posted: 7/1/2012 12:30:02 PM EDT
[#49]
From what I read the penalty is 2% of your income with a $960 minimum. If you can't find insurance for less than 8% of your income you do not have to pay the penalty. I have no idea what the coverage requirements are though. Can the insurance give you a million dollar deductible with a $200 monthly premium and if you don't buy it you have to pay the penalty?
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Posted: 7/1/2012 12:39:14 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do ERs have to treat everyone that walks in the door now? Now that everyone has insurance they shouldn't have to treat the uninsured, right? Yes...under EMTALA...Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act. But....under this law there shouldn't be any uninsured people. Not true, of course. The only way to really have that is with a government plan, or a default coverage. I assume the vast majority here dont want that. |
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