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Chas8008
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Posted: 6/12/2012 1:01:32 PM
After reading this thread, http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1331949_Local_Man_Challenges_state_felon_gun_ban_.html


It is my understanding that muzzle loaders are not firearms. Right?

So can a felon have muzzle loader? What about Colt Peacemaker? Still black podwer..


Do not email me please, I will not get it. IM me only for the time being..

Thanks Chas
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Posted: 6/12/2012 1:08:16 PM
[Last Edit: 6/12/2012 1:19:38 PM by Quarterbore]
I think in general they can not but there is a process they can go through to get limited permissions...

Google found this:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_felons_own_a_muzzleloading_black_powder_gun

I would expect a blackpowder handgun would be a no however!
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Posted: 6/12/2012 1:09:39 PM
Depends upon the state.
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WindKnot1-1
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Posted: 6/12/2012 1:10:16 PM
The several states also have their own definition of a firearm. Some include black powder as well as smokeless.
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Posted: 6/12/2012 1:10:17 PM
The several states also have their own definition of a firearm. Some include black powder as well as smokeless.
AJK07734
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Posted: 6/12/2012 1:12:40 PM
Originally Posted By Chas8008:
After reading this thread, http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1331949_Local_Man_Challenges_state_felon_gun_ban_.html


It is my understanding that muzzle loaders are not firearms. Right?

So can a felon have muzzle loader? What about Colt Peacemaker? Still black podwer..





A "Peacemaker" isnt a Muzzleloader. even though it's an antique, it's classified as a "Firearm". MOST states consider cap-and-ball revolvers and single-shot pistols to not be "Firearms" per se because they do not fire fixed ammunition... Last person I heard speculating on this particular subject was Gunkid during his last....rather short, Venture ouf ot incarceration.
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Hawcer
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Posted: 6/12/2012 1:32:37 PM
It might not be considered a firearm in most states...but it will always be a weapon...just like a knife,spear,bow&arrow,etc.

shack357
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Posted: 6/12/2012 3:34:57 PM
Originally Posted By Hawcer:
It might not be considered a firearm in most states...but it will always be a weapon...just like a knife,spear,bow&arrow,etc.



Yep. Last I was told(looked into it for an ex coworker with domestic violence charge)in IA if you're a prohibited person it prevents you from having "dangerous weapons" -which is defined as something intended to cause serious injury or death to a human or animal. Interestingly, DNR says felons CAN bowhunt, so I don't know where the line is.
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Posted: 6/12/2012 3:54:07 PM
Texas Penal Code 46.01
(3) “Firearm” means any device designed made, or adapted to expel a projectile through a barrel using the energy generated by an explosion or burning substance or any device readily convertible to that use. Firearm does not include a firearm that may have, as an integral part, a folding knife blade or other characteristics of weapons made illegal by this chapter and that is: (A) an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899; or
Cantu v. State, 802 S.W.2d 1 (Tex. App.-San Antonio 1990, pet. ref’d) Illegal characteristic of firearm manufactured prior to 1899 must have been an integral part of the weapon as manufactured. (B) a replica of an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899, but only if the replica does not use rim fire or center fire ammunition. Several defendants have sought to defend weapons cases or other cases involving use of weapons by arguing that the weapons was made before 1899, therefore are antiques. The courts have rejected this approach saying in effect that the antique or curio exception applies to treating the items as antiques, not to using them as weapons.


It all depends on the use.
FordGuy
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Posted: 6/12/2012 4:01:45 PM
If you are a felon, no guns. no black powder. no, no no. I recall a Michigan exception that hopefully our michigan lawyers can chime in on.
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Posted: 6/12/2012 5:44:39 PM
[Last Edit: 6/12/2012 6:13:43 PM by brboyer]
Florida Statutes

790.23
(1) It is unlawful for any person to own or to have in his or her care, custody, possession, or control any firearm, ammunition, or electric weapon or device, or to carry a concealed weapon, including a tear gas gun or chemical weapon or device, if that person has been:
(a) Convicted of a felony in the courts of this state;
. . .
[list of other disqualifiers]
. .


So felons cannot possess any firearms, or carry a concealed weapon. But firearm does not include 'Antique Firearm' see below.

Note: Felons also cannot carry a concealed weapon...an antique pistol is a weapon. But they would be able to carry it openly because the open carry law only restricts the open carry of Firearms.

790.001 Definitions.—As used in this chapter, except where the context otherwise requires:
(1) “Antique firearm” means any firearm manufactured in or before 1918 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar early type of ignition system) or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1918, and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1918, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

(2) “Concealed firearm” means any firearm, as defined in subsection (6), which is carried on or about a person in such a manner as to conceal the firearm from the ordinary sight of another person.

(3)(a) “Concealed weapon” means any dirk, metallic knuckles, slungshot, billie, tear gas gun, chemical weapon or device, or other deadly weapon carried on or about a person in such a manner as to conceal the weapon from the ordinary sight of another person.

(6) “Firearm” means any weapon (including a starter gun) which will, is designed to, or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; the frame or receiver of any such weapon; any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; any destructive device; or any machine gun. The term “firearm” does not include an antique firearm unless the antique firearm is used in the commission of a crime.


Also, if a felon is going to carry a replica of an antique firearm it must be an exact replica, same materials used in original construction, same sights, etc. Like if the original had ivory grips, some courts have ruled that plastic grips would make it not a replica and thus a firearm and illegal.

GaryM
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Posted: 6/12/2012 6:02:09 PM
Legal to buy, not legal to possess.
How does that work? Beats me but that is the law here.
WhiteLion
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Posted: 6/12/2012 6:07:19 PM
i have always been told that they fall under the category of signalling devices. I used to do civil war reenacting a long time ago and I bought two black powder revolvers when i was 16 and another when I was 18 without any problems. Later I worked at a gun store while I apprenticed as a gunsmith and we did not have to keep black powder weapons in the books nor did we have to do any type of paperwork or background checks when selling them. Just take the guys cash and he was good to go.
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Posted: 7/3/2012 3:36:20 PM
Thats why Bass Pro Shops has the black powder guns out in the open and not locked up behind the counter.
scotchymcdrinkerbean
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Posted: 7/3/2012 3:41:50 PM
Originally Posted By 103:
Depends upon the state.


Yep. Up until a couple years ago you'd have been fine as a felon owning a BP cap and ball revolver in LA, but it is now illegal (despite *zero* convicted felons ever using one in a crime, and many owning one for home defense. Gotta love stupid fear-based legislation.)
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scotchymcdrinkerbean
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Posted: 7/3/2012 3:42:55 PM
Originally Posted By bmt940:
Thats why Bass Pro Shops has the black powder guns out in the open and not locked up behind the counter.


Heck, I bought a BP revolver from Cabela's.......over the internet.
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FordGuy
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Posted: 7/4/2012 10:02:25 AM
[Last Edit: 7/4/2012 10:04:34 AM by FordGuy]
are we doing this again? stop spreading this false hope that felons can still posess black powder rifles. Felons in this thread, in most states you are just completely out of luck. I think Montana has some narrow exception for STATE felonies. But the feds still apply their federal rules regarding felon in posession.

I hate it as much as you do, but black powder is contra legem until laws are changed, which they should be. But honestly this seems hopeless for those of you who have a felony conviction, apart from some very unique exceptions.
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