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doc_Zox
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Posted: 6/16/2012 11:18:49 PM
"Once again, PolitenessMan's stainless steel hankie meets its mark"
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Posted: 6/16/2012 11:31:16 PM
I've been meaning to mention that my favorite scene of the film was the simplest and most subtle- holo-Weyland says something about David being a robot and not having a son, there's a closeup of David's face for his "reaction", and I swear you could see the light die in his eyes despite Fassbender being absolutely motionless. Not a twitch nor tremble, not a muscle moved. I don't even know how he did that.
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Posted: 6/16/2012 11:50:11 PM
Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
I've been meaning to mention that my favorite scene of the film was the simplest and most subtle- holo-Weyland says something about David being a robot and not having a son, there's a closeup of David's face for his "reaction", and I swear you could see the light die in his eyes despite Fassbender being absolutely motionless. Not a twitch nor tremble, not a muscle moved. I don't even know how he did that.


YES!

I caught that. He's a hell of an actor.

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Posted: 6/17/2012 12:38:54 AM
I stopped reading on page 3...





So have we actually figured out what the heck the movie was about? ( I'm sorry but that whole "Jesus was a alien" seemed far fetched)
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Posted: 6/17/2012 2:33:13 AM
[Last Edit: 6/17/2012 2:38:44 AM by DriveNASCAR]
Originally Posted By chupacabras:
From a poster on IMDB:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1446714/board/thread/200177706

VERY LONG READ

I had my suspicions about this movie, but this post just confirmed it.

Prometheus contains such a huge amount of mythic resonance that it effectively obscures a more conventional plot. I'd like to draw your attention to the use of motifs and callbacks in the film that not only enrich it, but offer possible hints as to what was going on in otherwise confusing scenes...


That's a damned good analysis of the movie.

EDIT: And I liked the movie, anyway.
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doc_Zox
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Posted: 6/17/2012 2:14:07 PM
Considering how this film is a viral market tour de force,
I wonder who wrote that imdb scholarly treatis?

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Posted: 6/17/2012 4:20:34 PM

Originally Posted By MP0117:
Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
I've been meaning to mention that my favorite scene of the film was the simplest and most subtle- holo-Weyland says something about David being a robot and not having a son, there's a closeup of David's face for his "reaction", and I swear you could see the light die in his eyes despite Fassbender being absolutely motionless. Not a twitch nor tremble, not a muscle moved. I don't even know how he did that.


YES!

I caught that. He's a hell of an actor.


Great scene. My favorite was when Charlize was trying to get in her spacesuit before the Prometheus suicided into the Engineer ship. It would have been so easy to make that kind of scene either cheesy or melodramatic, but I thought she gave it a very real and visceral sense of panic. Again, a very subtle thing but a very good piece of acting IMHO.
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Posted: 6/18/2012 12:47:30 AM
Originally Posted By MP0117:
Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
I've been meaning to mention that my favorite scene of the film was the simplest and most subtle- holo-Weyland says something about David being a robot and not having a son, there's a closeup of David's face for his "reaction", and I swear you could see the light die in his eyes despite Fassbender being absolutely motionless. Not a twitch nor tremble, not a muscle moved. I don't even know how he did that.


YES!

I caught that. He's a hell of an actor.



I saw that, too. I almost thought I imagined it or something.
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Posted: 6/18/2012 1:06:08 AM
Originally Posted By DriveNASCAR:
Originally Posted By MP0117:
Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
I've been meaning to mention that my favorite scene of the film was the simplest and most subtle- holo-Weyland says something about David being a robot and not having a son, there's a closeup of David's face for his "reaction", and I swear you could see the light die in his eyes despite Fassbender being absolutely motionless. Not a twitch nor tremble, not a muscle moved. I don't even know how he did that.


YES!

I caught that. He's a hell of an actor.



I saw that, too. I almost thought I imagined it or something.


no i saw it too.. just sheer disappointment.
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Posted: 6/18/2012 7:39:35 AM

Originally Posted By shiky:
Originally Posted By DriveNASCAR:
Originally Posted By MP0117:
Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
I've been meaning to mention that my favorite scene of the film was the simplest and most subtle- holo-Weyland says something about David being a robot and not having a son, there's a closeup of David's face for his "reaction", and I swear you could see the light die in his eyes despite Fassbender being absolutely motionless. Not a twitch nor tremble, not a muscle moved. I don't even know how he did that.


YES!

I caught that. He's a hell of an actor.



I saw that, too. I almost thought I imagined it or something.


no i saw it too.. just sheer disappointment.

Brilliant and subtle acting, just as good as Spaceys death in L.A. Confidential which is my go to description for this sort of thing.
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Posted: 6/18/2012 11:55:48 AM
Went and watched this weekend.

Put me in the "very disappointed camp."

Once again, we have film-makers so utterly focused on visual effects that they seem to forget the importance of story and character development.

There's a benefit to intrigue and mystery, to letting the audience contemplate some open questions... but this was not that. This was just a bunch of gaping holes.

We have stupidity after stupidity which killed my ability suspend disbelief. The helmets, the failure to use any archeological safeguards, the lack of quarantine, a woman who just had a c-section (involving an incision through abdominal muscle) running around like Ellen Ripley; the stupid use of prosthetic aging on a much younger actor playing Weyland; I could go on and on.

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Posted: 6/18/2012 12:05:52 PM
[Last Edit: 6/18/2012 12:08:16 PM by dorobuta]
And then using his fingers, he snuffs out a crew member in much the same way....

Originally Posted By MP0117:

When everyone is asleep David was watching the scene in Lawrence of Arabia that Weyland alluded to in the TED talks video where Lawrence snuffs out the match with his fingers.



If not for physics and law enforcement, I'd be unstoppable.
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Posted: 6/18/2012 12:52:53 PM
[Last Edit: 6/18/2012 12:59:59 PM by hhsmiley]
Originally Posted By NagOrzo15-1:
Went and watched this weekend.

Put me in the "very disappointed camp."

Once again, we have film-makers so utterly focused on visual effects that they seem to forget the importance of story and character development.

There's a benefit to intrigue and mystery, to letting the audience contemplate some open questions... but this was not that. This was just a bunch of gaping holes.

We have stupidity after stupidity which killed my ability suspend disbelief. The helmets, the failure to use any archeological safeguards, the lack of quarantine, a woman who just had a c-section (involving an incision through abdominal muscle) running around like Ellen Ripley; the stupid use of prosthetic aging on a much younger actor playing Weyland; I could go on and on.



I have seen it twice now. After the first viewing I thought much the same as this. I gave it a 5/10. After a 2nd viewing and further reflection it's more like 8/10 and it's tied for 2nd with Aliens on my ranking of the Alien universe movies. There are no large "plot holes" if you pay attention, and most of the things like this that people are bitching about are just minor things. Like Ridley Scott said, "it's a movie not a science class". You have to be able to accept that it's just a film and suspend some disbelief.

As far as a lack of importance given to story and character development? WTF? On a scale of 1 to 10 for depth, complexity and "making you think", the story in Alien is about a 1 and Prometheus is a 10. I couldn't believe they had the audacity to even IMPLY some of the stuff they seem to be getting at in this movie. I for one appreciated them having the balls to actually ask the questions and take the movie in a totally unexpected "non-hollywood" direction. There is a lot of development with the main characters (Shaw/David). Theres more going on there than Alien's characters' single motivation of survival. If you were expecting a shallow standard sci-fi horror movie like Alien or The Thing, I guess I can see you being overwhelmed by this film. There are many questions asked in the film and the vast majority are answered either outright or with the application of just a little thought.

For those of you who let things like "The helmets, the failure to use any archeological safeguards, the lack of quarantine" bother you, what do you think of Alien? That film is held up as a masterpiece, but most of those same elements are there too. You dont have people bitching about Alien and being unable to suspend disbelief because Kane was so stupid as to go messing around with some weird alien eggs when he had no idea what they were.

As far as Shaw running around after the C-section, she spends most of the rest of the movie after that either doubled over in pain from it, or literally having to run for her life. I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that while it's probably not a good idea to be moving around after abdominal surgery her motivation to get answers to questions she's been asking her whole life and her survival instinct overrode the pain. Also she jabbed herself with painkiller injector no fewer than 3 times. Pretty sure they have some good stuff in the future.

Maybe the prosthetics used on Guy Pierce were not perfect but if that takes you out of the movie then, well, you're simply too concerned with the small stuff IMO. It was effective enough to get the point across and I'd rather have the same actor playing the young and old character if possible.

If anyone has any "gaping holes" to point out, I'm pretty sure I can fill you in on what you missed.
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Posted: 6/18/2012 1:42:35 PM
Originally Posted By hhsmiley:

As far as Shaw running around after the C-section, she spends most of the rest of the movie after that either doubled over in pain from it, or literally having to run for her life. I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that while it's probably not a good idea to be moving around after abdominal surgery her motivation to get answers to questions she's been asking her whole life and her survival instinct overrode the pain. Also she jabbed herself with painkiller injector no fewer than 3 times. Pretty sure they have some good stuff in the future.


I just wanted to inject clarification about this point. A c-section much access the uterus which lies behind it. The autoDoc performs the procedure, and in the short time shown, it appears to only staple the incision closed. An actual c-section involves reconnecting the cut ends of the organs and muscles prior to closing the incision. Even I were generous and assume that the autoDoc did this, vigorous use of the muscles and physical exertion shown at the climax of the film would have popped the staples or stitches. After that, the muscle cannot flex the abdomen as it is not anchored to at least two points. At this point, Dr. Shaw does not merely have to overcome pain, she would have to overcome the cold reality that the muscle is not useable.

The abdominal rectus muscle is used thoroughly during running to flex the abdomen in raising the forward leg during the start of each stride, not to mention it use in vaulting and climbing as shown on the planet surface during the Engineer ship launch.

This is not a quibble from a tiny fraction of 1% of viewers. Women who underwent caesarian delivery or those who know of someone who did would have to be very generous to suspend disbelief over this oversight.

BTW, my wife is pregnant with our first child and the delivery scene thoroughly freaked her out. Kudos to Ridley Scott for successfully for pushing the same buttons that made the chestburster scene in Alien so powerful.
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Posted: 6/18/2012 1:46:21 PM
Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
I've been meaning to mention that my favorite scene of the film was the simplest and most subtle- holo-Weyland says something about David being a robot and not having a son, there's a closeup of David's face for his "reaction", and I swear you could see the light die in his eyes despite Fassbender being absolutely motionless. Not a twitch nor tremble, not a muscle moved. I don't even know how he did that.


That was fucking good. He OWNED that role.
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Posted: 6/18/2012 1:47:03 PM

Originally Posted By CK1:

Women who underwent caesarian delivery or those who know of someone who did would have to be very generous to suspend disbelief over this oversight.

Suspend disbelief a little. They have technology that's several decades more advanced.


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Posted: 6/18/2012 2:11:41 PM
Originally Posted By CK1:
Originally Posted By hhsmiley:

As far as Shaw running around after the C-section, she spends most of the rest of the movie after that either doubled over in pain from it, or literally having to run for her life. I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that while it's probably not a good idea to be moving around after abdominal surgery her motivation to get answers to questions she's been asking her whole life and her survival instinct overrode the pain. Also she jabbed herself with painkiller injector no fewer than 3 times. Pretty sure they have some good stuff in the future.


I just wanted to inject clarification about this point. A c-section much access the uterus which lies behind it. The autoDoc performs the procedure, and in the short time shown, it appears to only staple the incision closed. An actual c-section involves reconnecting the cut ends of the organs and muscles prior to closing the incision. Even I were generous and assume that the autoDoc did this, vigorous use of the muscles and physical exertion shown at the climax of the film would have popped the staples or stitches. After that, the muscle cannot flex the abdomen as it is not anchored to at least two points. At this point, Dr. Shaw does not merely have to overcome pain, she would have to overcome the cold reality that the muscle is not useable.

The abdominal rectus muscle is used thoroughly during running to flex the abdomen in raising the forward leg during the start of each stride, not to mention it use in vaulting and climbing as shown on the planet surface during the Engineer ship launch.

This is not a quibble from a tiny fraction of 1% of viewers. Women who underwent caesarian delivery or those who know of someone who did would have to be very generous to suspend disbelief over this oversight.

BTW, my wife is pregnant with our first child and the delivery scene thoroughly freaked her out. Kudos to Ridley Scott for successfully for pushing the same buttons that made the chestburster scene in Alien so powerful.


Does this medically make 100% sense? Maybe, maybe not. It's a MOVIE not a medical documentary. At present, physics says there's no way to go FTL yet without a FTL ship there is no movie at all. That being the case why not just stay home and not subject yourself to such "oversights".

Also, although it's implied that this is a "C-section" we don't know that the alien fetus was necessarily even in the uterus. Nobody says to Shaw "it's in your uterus". The alien in Alien was not in the uterus because Kane had none and that may be how they all work. It could be argued that Shaw was infected rather than impregnated and since we'd seen Holloway's "eye-worm" (suggesting that the goo could travel anywhere in the body), one could infer that the alien fetus was simply in the abdominal cavity.

Shaw is wearing what amounts to a very tight wet suit after her operation. I would think that this would help in holding her together after the "c-section". Maybe the incision DID come open and all thats holding her innards in is that suit. We don't know, and frankly, it's not important. Again, there's no addressing of the pain killer (or whatever it was, maybe it was super future fast healing drug) that Shaw injected herself with 3 times. It's clear she's still struggling, but maybe this accounts for how she can do what she does whereas a woman who just had a normal c-section could not. I think there is precedent for humans doing things that are not normally possible under the influence of strong drugs.
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Posted: 6/18/2012 2:27:47 PM
Originally Posted By hhsmiley:
Originally Posted By CK1:
Originally Posted By hhsmiley:

As far as Shaw running around after the C-section, she spends most of the rest of the movie after that either doubled over in pain from it, or literally having to run for her life. I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that while it's probably not a good idea to be moving around after abdominal surgery her motivation to get answers to questions she's been asking her whole life and her survival instinct overrode the pain. Also she jabbed herself with painkiller injector no fewer than 3 times. Pretty sure they have some good stuff in the future.


I just wanted to inject clarification about this point. A c-section much access the uterus which lies behind it. The autoDoc performs the procedure, and in the short time shown, it appears to only staple the incision closed. An actual c-section involves reconnecting the cut ends of the organs and muscles prior to closing the incision. Even I were generous and assume that the autoDoc did this, vigorous use of the muscles and physical exertion shown at the climax of the film would have popped the staples or stitches. After that, the muscle cannot flex the abdomen as it is not anchored to at least two points. At this point, Dr. Shaw does not merely have to overcome pain, she would have to overcome the cold reality that the muscle is not useable.

The abdominal rectus muscle is used thoroughly during running to flex the abdomen in raising the forward leg during the start of each stride, not to mention it use in vaulting and climbing as shown on the planet surface during the Engineer ship launch.

This is not a quibble from a tiny fraction of 1% of viewers. Women who underwent caesarian delivery or those who know of someone who did would have to be very generous to suspend disbelief over this oversight.

BTW, my wife is pregnant with our first child and the delivery scene thoroughly freaked her out. Kudos to Ridley Scott for successfully for pushing the same buttons that made the chestburster scene in Alien so powerful.


Does this medically make 100% sense? Maybe, maybe not. It's a MOVIE not a medical documentary. At present, physics says there's no way to go FTL yet without a FTL ship there is no movie at all. That being the case why not just stay home and not subject yourself to such "oversights".

Also, although it's implied that this is a "C-section" we don't know that the alien fetus was necessarily even in the uterus. Nobody says to Shaw "it's in your uterus". The alien in Alien was not in the uterus because Kane had none and that may be how they all work. It could be argued that Shaw was infected rather than impregnated and since we'd seen Holloway's "eye-worm" (suggesting that the goo could travel anywhere in the body), one could infer that the alien fetus was simply in the abdominal cavity.

Shaw is wearing what amounts to a very tight wet suit after her operation. I would think that this would help in holding her together after the "c-section". Maybe the incision DID come open and all thats holding her innards in is that suit. We don't know, and frankly, it's not important. Again, there's no addressing of the pain killer (or whatever it was, maybe it was super future fast healing drug) that Shaw injected herself with 3 times. It's clear she's still struggling, but maybe this accounts for how she can do what she does whereas a woman who just had a normal c-section could not. I think there is precedent for humans doing things that are not normally possible under the influence of strong drugs.


And what difference does it make that the alien is "just" in the abdominal cavity and not the uterus? The uterus is not a weight bearing organ. There is no way in PHYSIOLOGICAL HELL that someone who just had their abdomen cut open to do ANYTHING she did.
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Posted: 6/18/2012 2:42:38 PM
btw, it wasnt a c-section. the machine wasnt calibrated for female anatomy so she did it as 'removal of foreign body from the abdomen' or something like that....
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Posted: 6/18/2012 2:43:22 PM
[Last Edit: 6/18/2012 2:59:20 PM by SinistralRifleman]
Originally Posted By 36_gauge:
And what difference does it make that the alien is "just" in the abdominal cavity and not the uterus? The uterus is not a weight bearing organ. There is no way in PHYSIOLOGICAL HELL that someone who just had their abdomen cut open to do ANYTHING she did.


They should have just include a blue light and announce "cellular regeneration commencing" (it works in Star Trek) and that would have explained it explicitly for the audience that wants everything else explained exactly. I think that's really the biggest problem everyone is having with this film it didn't slap you in the face and tell you exactly what happened.

We have no idea behind the science of the FTL drive or cryo tubes, but people are nitpicking over super expensive future science medicine machine doing abdominal surgery and she isn't fucked up enough afterwards. The weyland industries website says stuff about synthetic organs made using stem cells, I just assumed it accelerated her healing in some fashion, but she is still clearly in pain and messed up. Maybe she is not only injecting pain killers but also stem cells or nanites that will continue to repair her body.

PS there is no way 100 rounds of 10mm caseless ammo (10mmx24mm in the Colonial Marines Handbook) would fit into magazines the size we see used in the M41A pulse rifles in Aliens. No one seems to be be bitching about that.
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Posted: 6/18/2012 3:13:26 PM
And what difference does it make that the alien is "just" in the abdominal cavity and not the uterus? The uterus is not a weight bearing organ. There is no way in PHYSIOLOGICAL HELL that someone who just had their abdomen cut open to do ANYTHING she did.


Just like there's no way in PHYSIOLOGICAL HELL that people high on PCP can shrug off bullet wounds and other kinds of trauma that they "shouldn't be able to" because they're all hopped up?

Did anyone mention it's just a MOVIE?

So this seems to be a major hang-up. Anything else? If this "you can't do that after abdominal surgery" thing is enough to ruin this whole movie for you I think maybe you better just not go to movies.

Anyone looking forward to the next Batman movie? How about The Hobbit? I'm sure everything in those is securely grounded in good science, so don't worry.
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Posted: 6/18/2012 3:14:51 PM
In a world of John McClane taking a round in the shoulder as well as running barefoot across glass and STILL running around a skyscraper killing Eurotrash, I can buy the abdomen thing.

John Matrix being shot in the shoulder and beat with a furnace door by Bennet (Who was ELECTROCUTED) and still beating the shit out of each other for fifteen minutes, I can buy it.

Hell, Riddick dislocating and then re-locating both his shoulders to escape means I'll buy the abdomen bit.
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Posted: 6/18/2012 3:16:55 PM
[Last Edit: 6/18/2012 3:17:10 PM by DangerJ]
Originally Posted By mcantu:
btw, it wasnt a c-section. the machine wasnt calibrated for female anatomy so she did it as 'removal of foreign body from the abdomen' or something like that....


How do you get to the womb, from the front? Through the abdominal wall.

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Posted: 6/18/2012 3:29:21 PM
[Last Edit: 6/18/2012 3:35:48 PM by NagOrzo15-1]
Originally Posted By hhsmiley:
And what difference does it make that the alien is "just" in the abdominal cavity and not the uterus? The uterus is not a weight bearing organ. There is no way in PHYSIOLOGICAL HELL that someone who just had their abdomen cut open to do ANYTHING she did.


Just like there's no way in PHYSIOLOGICAL HELL that people high on PCP can shrug off bullet wounds and other kinds of trauma that they "shouldn't be able to" because they're all hopped up?

Did anyone mention it's just a MOVIE?

So this seems to be a major hang-up. Anything else? If this "you can't do that after abdominal surgery" thing is enough to ruin this whole movie for you I think maybe you better just not go to movies.

Anyone looking forward to the next Batman movie? How about The Hobbit? I'm sure everything in those is securely grounded in good science, so don't worry.


Here's one for you:

Why would the Engineers plant "maps" all over earth pointing NOT to the engineer's home world, but to some random moon that was a military biological WMD base? Even buying into the speculation that the engineers created the humans and only later decided to annihilate them for killing the engineer Jesus-Jockey –– many of those star charts (including the one discovered at the beginning) were much older than the alleged issue that turned the engineers on the Earth's inhabitants, so what gives?

Or how about this: They've got the red mapping orbs running around the whole place so why didn't they discovery the life signs of the meal worms that turned into penis aliens from the black goo.

Or how about this: What was chasing the engineers in the holographic videos?

Or how about this: You sign up an entire crew for a mission and don't brief them until they arrive, WTF? Yeah yeah, I hear ya... 'opsec." But if your crew can't be briefed before going to sleep, then how are you going to trust them in mission critical applications when TSHTF?

Or how about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x1YuvUQFJ0

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Posted: 6/18/2012 3:31:07 PM

Originally Posted By DangerJ:
Originally Posted By mcantu:
btw, it wasnt a c-section. the machine wasnt calibrated for female anatomy so she did it as 'removal of foreign body from the abdomen' or something like that....


How do you get to the womb, from the front? Through the abdominal wall.


Dinner and a few drinks usually works....

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Posted: 6/18/2012 3:34:24 PM
Originally Posted By devilskwerl:

Originally Posted By DangerJ:
Originally Posted By mcantu:
btw, it wasnt a c-section. the machine wasnt calibrated for female anatomy so she did it as 'removal of foreign body from the abdomen' or something like that....


How do you get to the womb, from the front? Through the abdominal wall.


Dinner and a few drinks usually works....



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Posted: 6/18/2012 4:51:16 PM
Originally Posted By NagOrzo15-1:
Originally Posted By hhsmiley:
And what difference does it make that the alien is "just" in the abdominal cavity and not the uterus? The uterus is not a weight bearing organ. There is no way in PHYSIOLOGICAL HELL that someone who just had their abdomen cut open to do ANYTHING she did.


Just like there's no way in PHYSIOLOGICAL HELL that people high on PCP can shrug off bullet wounds and other kinds of trauma that they "shouldn't be able to" because they're all hopped up?

Did anyone mention it's just a MOVIE?

So this seems to be a major hang-up. Anything else? If this "you can't do that after abdominal surgery" thing is enough to ruin this whole movie for you I think maybe you better just not go to movies.

Anyone looking forward to the next Batman movie? How about The Hobbit? I'm sure everything in those is securely grounded in good science, so don't worry.


Here's one for you:

Why would the Engineers plant "maps" all over earth pointing NOT to the engineer's home world, but to some random moon that was a military biological WMD base? Even buying into the speculation that the engineers created the humans and only later decided to annihilate them for killing the engineer Jesus-Jockey –– many of those star charts (including the one discovered at the beginning) were much older than the alleged issue that turned the engineers on the Earth's inhabitants, so what gives?



To be fair,

1) We don't KNOW that it's a military biological WMD base. It could be lots of things. Maybe that black stuff has many functions. Maybe the facility was meant as a medical facility designed to help nascent races that finally made it into space become healthier, strengthen their immune system, give them translator microbes, whatever. Maybe it originally had a benign purpose and then something unexpected happen - like the Andromeda Strain. Keep in mind, they're ALIENS, and all the guesses about what the facility is are nothing more than guesses.

2) If you wind up the mechanism for a new intelligent life-form, and then "release it into the wild" for thousands of years, even if you want them to maybe look you up in the future, it would probably be a VERY good idea to NOT give them your home address. You know, just in case they evolve into homicidal, xenophobic assholes. It would make perfect sense to give them directions to a way-station, or some remote base or outpost where you can meet them, and then decide if you want to allow them to come to your homework or a populated planet.

So I don't see either of those as being horrible plot holes. In part, I think it's a huge flaw with modern science fiction that everything has to be explained - often incredibly poorly. That shouldn't be license for directors and writers to just make up all kinds of bullshit and then wave their hands and say "oh, it's just mysterious and unexplained" - but, I think for something like the motivations of completely alien cultures, some unanswered questions and ambiguity is completely acceptable.

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Posted: 6/18/2012 8:36:00 PM
[Last Edit: 6/18/2012 9:38:06 PM by JIMBEAM]
Originally Posted By Slimbone:
1. Good question. I didn't get it either. Shouldn't have intro'ed the engineers that early in the movie.

2. I believe he wanted to take the "alien seed" back just like Paul Reiser tried to do in Aliens.

My comments.

1. Taking your helmet off on an alien planet after being there for 10 minutes?

2. No quarantine measures on the PROMETHUS when the first party returned to the ship? WTF?

3. The Dr giving herself a c-section then running around like Rambo afterwards?

4. The geologist was annoying. Should have cast a different actor.

Overall it was a good movie and I enjoyed it. I hope they make a sequel.


Most geologists are weird.
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Posted: 6/18/2012 9:32:48 PM
Originally Posted By CK1:
Originally Posted By hhsmiley:

As far as Shaw running around after the C-section, she spends most of the rest of the movie after that either doubled over in pain from it, or literally having to run for her life. I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that while it's probably not a good idea to be moving around after abdominal surgery her motivation to get answers to questions she's been asking her whole life and her survival instinct overrode the pain. Also she jabbed herself with painkiller injector no fewer than 3 times. Pretty sure they have some good stuff in the future.


I just wanted to inject clarification about this point. A c-section much access the uterus which lies behind it. The autoDoc performs the procedure, and in the short time shown, it appears to only staple the incision closed. An actual c-section involves reconnecting the cut ends of the organs and muscles prior to closing the incision. Even I were generous and assume that the autoDoc did this, vigorous use of the muscles and physical exertion shown at the climax of the film would have popped the staples or stitches. After that, the muscle cannot flex the abdomen as it is not anchored to at least two points. At this point, Dr. Shaw does not merely have to overcome pain, she would have to overcome the cold reality that the muscle is not useable.

The abdominal rectus muscle is used thoroughly during running to flex the abdomen in raising the forward leg during the start of each stride, not to mention it use in vaulting and climbing as shown on the planet surface during the Engineer ship launch.

This is not a quibble from a tiny fraction of 1% of viewers. Women who underwent caesarian delivery or those who know of someone who did would have to be very generous to suspend disbelief over this oversight.

BTW, my wife is pregnant with our first child and the delivery scene thoroughly freaked her out. Kudos to Ridley Scott for successfully for pushing the same buttons that made the chestburster scene in Alien so powerful.


It appeared the wound was healed and scared shortly after the operation. Perhaps the unit or the injection she gave herself advanced the healing process.
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Posted: 6/18/2012 9:46:38 PM

Originally Posted By JIMBEAM:

It appeared the wound was healed and scared shortly after the operation. Perhaps the unit or the injection she gave herself advanced the healing process.

Wait. Are you suggesting that a sci fi movie might have futuristic technology?


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Posted: 6/18/2012 9:50:11 PM
Originally Posted By MP0117:
Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
I've been meaning to mention that my favorite scene of the film was the simplest and most subtle- holo-Weyland says something about David being a robot and not having a son, there's a closeup of David's face for his "reaction", and I swear you could see the light die in his eyes despite Fassbender being absolutely motionless. Not a twitch nor tremble, not a muscle moved. I don't even know how he did that.

YES!
I caught that. He's a hell of an actor.

He is a great actor.
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Posted: 6/18/2012 10:20:32 PM
[Last Edit: 6/18/2012 10:22:23 PM by hhsmiley]
Originally Posted By NagOrzo15-1:
Originally Posted By hhsmiley:
And what difference does it make that the alien is "just" in the abdominal cavity and not the uterus? The uterus is not a weight bearing organ. There is no way in PHYSIOLOGICAL HELL that someone who just had their abdomen cut open to do ANYTHING she did.


Just like there's no way in PHYSIOLOGICAL HELL that people high on PCP can shrug off bullet wounds and other kinds of trauma that they "shouldn't be able to" because they're all hopped up?

Did anyone mention it's just a MOVIE?

So this seems to be a major hang-up. Anything else? If this "you can't do that after abdominal surgery" thing is enough to ruin this whole movie for you I think maybe you better just not go to movies.

Anyone looking forward to the next Batman movie? How about The Hobbit? I'm sure everything in those is securely grounded in good science, so don't worry.


Here's one for you:

Why would the Engineers plant "maps" all over earth pointing NOT to the engineer's home world, but to some random moon that was a military biological WMD base? Even buying into the speculation that the engineers created the humans and only later decided to annihilate them for killing the engineer Jesus-Jockey –– many of those star charts (including the one discovered at the beginning) were much older than the alleged issue that turned the engineers on the Earth's inhabitants, so what gives?

Or how about this: They've got the red mapping orbs running around the whole place so why didn't they discovery the life signs of the meal worms that turned into penis aliens from the black goo.

Or how about this: What was chasing the engineers in the holographic videos?

Or how about this: You sign up an entire crew for a mission and don't brief them until they arrive, WTF? Yeah yeah, I hear ya... 'opsec." But if your crew can't be briefed before going to sleep, then how are you going to trust them in mission critical applications when TSHTF?

Or how about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x1YuvUQFJ0



The maps led to the LV-223 facility because if we ever evolved and had technology to go FTL it stands to reason that the engineers might not want us going straight to their home planet. Better to invite us to a remote outpost for our first meeting lest we cause trouble/become a threat.

The worms were very small, maybe the probes aren't able to pick up such small life forms. They seemed to be mostly about mapping and so they likely weren't calibrated for that. They didn't pick up the "hammerpedes" either. The only time they detected life was when the engineer's stasis pod periodically powered on.

The engineers were running from an outbreak of the black goo or some version of it that got out of control. The pile of dead engineers were killed in various ways, heads, bodies exploded. This is just what happened to the head that they brought back to Prometheus. Once they started messing with it they re-animated the goo that had been dormant in the head for the previous 2000 or so years and it blew up, which is the same thing that happened to the other engineers.

As far as the crew not being briefed, this was totally Weyland's show. He's a selfish old man and raided his own company to the tune of a trillion bucks to finance his search for longer life, so my assumption is he wanted it that way because he's batty. Either that or as his daughter had no particular interest in his search for immortality actually succeeding, it's possible the selection of emotionally "iffy" team members and the half assed way they went in was her attempt to undermine the whole thing.

I don't really have time to go step by step through all that Red letter media stuff but suffice to say nearly all of it has perfectly reasonable explanations that are contained in the film or can be reasoned out.
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Posted: 6/18/2012 10:40:14 PM
Fucking awesome movie.
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Posted: 6/20/2012 1:08:22 AM

Originally Posted By NagOrzo15-1:

We have stupidity after stupidity which killed my ability suspend disbelief. The helmets, the failure to use any archeological safeguards, the lack of quarantine, a woman who just had a c-section (involving an incision through abdominal muscle) running around like Ellen Ripley; the stupid use of prosthetic aging on a much younger actor playing Weyland; I could go on and on.


I have two big gripes - no thought was put into the "science" part of this fiction (e.g., ion drives are constrained by physics to be low thrust drives. If you have a drive that shoots your ship forward for a terrifying collision, "ion drive" is the last name you'd choose for it....any halfwit can tell you that), and the crew excelled only in unprofessionalism. In the original trilogy, a lot of the crew were MINERS, or MARINES, and acted according to what I'd expect. But this handpicked, trillion dollar expedition was populated with goofballs. It's just not believable.
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Posted: 6/20/2012 1:11:44 AM

Originally Posted By hhsmiley:

I don't really have time to go step by step through all that Red letter media stuff but suffice to say nearly all of it has perfectly reasonable explanations that are contained in the film or can be reasoned out.

Agree that RLM is going a little overboard here. Question: Did they ever explain why the engineers were trying to get into those rooms? The rooms were full of goo too....also, what was the reason behind the large head statue and mural? For a scientific outpost, the decoration was ornate.
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Posted: 6/21/2012 9:40:25 AM
[Last Edit: 6/21/2012 9:42:26 AM by hhsmiley]
Originally Posted By Waveform:

Originally Posted By NagOrzo15-1:

We have stupidity after stupidity which killed my ability suspend disbelief. The helmets, the failure to use any archeological safeguards, the lack of quarantine, a woman who just had a c-section (involving an incision through abdominal muscle) running around like Ellen Ripley; the stupid use of prosthetic aging on a much younger actor playing Weyland; I could go on and on.


I have two big gripes - no thought was put into the "science" part of this fiction (e.g., ion drives are constrained by physics to be low thrust drives. If you have a drive that shoots your ship forward for a terrifying collision, "ion drive" is the last name you'd choose for it....any halfwit can tell you that), and the crew excelled only in unprofessionalism. In the original trilogy, a lot of the crew were MINERS, or MARINES, and acted according to what I'd expect. But this handpicked, trillion dollar expedition was populated with goofballs. It's just not believable.


Actually most of the situations and actions of the characters ARE totally believable, IF you apply more than a minimum of thought.

I'd argue that most "halfwits" actually DON'T know anything about ion drives. Maybe it's a different kind of "ion drive"? It doesn't generate thrust by shooting ions out but smashes them together in some kind of reactor? Who knows?For the millionth time, it's a MOVIE. The science behind most of the technologies in Star Wars, Star Trek, and most other sci-fi movies are just make believe gobbledegook, so why should this be different? Physicists say that FTL is not possible but in this movie we have a FTL ship, and you're taken out of the movie because they called it an "ion drive"? Just stay home and save yourself the aggravation. There's a reason these are movies are called science FICTION.

Weyland bankrolled the trip, yes. However, he was on ice for two years before it actually left and as you'll recall, Vickers stated explicitly that SHE hired at least a portion of the crew. It never says exaclty who she hired, but given that she had zero interest in Weyland attaining his goals (the king has his reign then he dies) I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think that she INTENTIONALLY populated the expedition with goofballs. Really, only Fifield and Milburn were "goofballs" anyway and it was certainly implied that they were high while they were in the pyramid. I don't generally give potheads much credit for making great decsions while stoned.

They didn't explain why the engineers ran into that particular room. It seemed that the room would have been a dead end, unless the xenomorph mural was also a doorway and they all went in there. There was only the one decapitated head in the room so they had to go somewhere. YMMV but I don't see it as a "plot hole", just something that they didn't explicitly explain. The goo in the jars was different than the goo that killed the engineers. The jar black goo caused mutation into a stronger aggressive creature while the goo they were trying to get away from caused violent explosions of the body as evidenced by the pile o' engineers with burst open bodies and heads and the explosion of the recovered engineer head on the Prometheus.

The engineer culture is different from ours. From the large skull decorating the outside of the pyramid to the giant head inside, the painted mural and the xenomorph relief, it's clear they simply decorate their scientific facilities in symbolism they find significant for whatever reason as opposed to the drab, utilitarian way that human scientific facilities would be built.
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Posted: 6/21/2012 10:17:08 AM

Originally Posted By hhsmiley:
Originally Posted By Waveform:

Originally Posted By NagOrzo15-1:

We have stupidity after stupidity which killed my ability suspend disbelief. The helmets, the failure to use any archeological safeguards, the lack of quarantine, a woman who just had a c-section (involving an incision through abdominal muscle) running around like Ellen Ripley; the stupid use of prosthetic aging on a much younger actor playing Weyland; I could go on and on.


I have two big gripes - no thought was put into the "science" part of this fiction (e.g., ion drives are constrained by physics to be low thrust drives. If you have a drive that shoots your ship forward for a terrifying collision, "ion drive" is the last name you'd choose for it....any halfwit can tell you that), and the crew excelled only in unprofessionalism. In the original trilogy, a lot of the crew were MINERS, or MARINES, and acted according to what I'd expect. But this handpicked, trillion dollar expedition was populated with goofballs. It's just not believable.


Actually most of the situations and actions of the characters ARE totally believable, IF you apply more than a minimum of thought.

I'd argue that most "halfwits" actually DON'T know anything about ion drives. Maybe it's a different kind of "ion drive"? It doesn't generate thrust by shooting ions out but smashes them together in some kind of reactor? Who knows?For the millionth time, it's a MOVIE. The science behind most of the technologies in Star Wars, Star Trek, and most other sci-fi movies are just make believe gobbledegook, so why should this be different? Physicists say that FTL is not possible but in this movie we have a FTL ship, and you're taken out of the movie because they called it an "ion drive"? Just stay home and save yourself the aggravation. There's a reason these are movies are called science FICTION.

Weyland bankrolled the trip, yes. However, he was on ice for two years before it actually left and as you'll recall, Vickers stated explicitly that SHE hired at least a portion of the crew. It never says exaclty who she hired, but given that she had zero interest in Weyland attaining his goals (the king has his reign then he dies) I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think that she INTENTIONALLY populated the expedition with goofballs. Really, only Fifield and Milburn were "goofballs" anyway and it was certainly implied that they were high while they were in the pyramid. I don't generally give potheads much credit for making great decsions while stoned.

They didn't explain why the engineers ran into that particular room. It seemed that the room would have been a dead end, unless the xenomorph mural was also a doorway and they all went in there. There was only the one decapitated head in the room so they had to go somewhere. YMMV but I don't see it as a "plot hole", just something that they didn't explicitly explain. The goo in the jars was different than the goo that killed the engineers. The jar black goo caused mutation into a stronger aggressive creature while the goo they were trying to get away from caused violent explosions of the body as evidenced by the pile o' engineers with burst open bodies and heads and the explosion of the recovered engineer head on the Prometheus.

The engineer culture is different from ours. From the large skull decorating the outside of the pyramid to the giant head inside, the painted mural and the xenomorph relief, it's clear they simply decorate their scientific facilities in symbolism they find significant for whatever reason as opposed to the drab, utilitarian way that human scientific facilities would be built.

I was thinking that the ghost engineers were running from the one whose head got cut off, he was probably a zombie like the crew member.
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Posted: 6/21/2012 3:22:40 PM
on another note, Prometheus convinced me to finally watch Lawrence of Arabia...damn that was a good movie!!
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Posted: 6/21/2012 3:39:15 PM
Saw it last night, fucking amazing, visually, and story wise. Have been thinking about it all day.
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Posted: 6/21/2012 4:03:21 PM
[Last Edit: 6/21/2012 4:03:44 PM by Waveform]

Originally Posted By hhsmiley:
Originally Posted By Waveform:

Originally Posted By NagOrzo15-1:

We have stupidity after stupidity which killed my ability suspend disbelief. The helmets, the failure to use any archeological safeguards, the lack of quarantine, a woman who just had a c-section (involving an incision through abdominal muscle) running around like Ellen Ripley; the stupid use of prosthetic aging on a much younger actor playing Weyland; I could go on and on.


I have two big gripes - no thought was put into the "science" part of this fiction (e.g., ion drives are constrained by physics to be low thrust drives. If you have a drive that shoots your ship forward for a terrifying collision, "ion drive" is the last name you'd choose for it....any halfwit can tell you that), and the crew excelled only in unprofessionalism. In the original trilogy, a lot of the crew were MINERS, or MARINES, and acted according to what I'd expect. But this handpicked, trillion dollar expedition was populated with goofballs. It's just not believable.


Actually most of the situations and actions of the characters ARE totally believable, IF you apply more than a minimum of thought.

I'd argue that most "halfwits" actually DON'T know anything about ion drives. Maybe it's a different kind of "ion drive"? It doesn't generate thrust by shooting ions out but smashes them together in some kind of reactor? Who knows?For the millionth time, it's a MOVIE. The science behind most of the technologies in Star Wars, Star Trek, and most other sci-fi movies are just make believe gobbledegook, so why should this be different? Physicists say that FTL is not possible but in this movie we have a FTL ship, and you're taken out of the movie because they called it an "ion drive"? Just stay home and save yourself the aggravation. There's a reason these are movies are called science FICTION.

Weyland bankrolled the trip, yes. However, he was on ice for two years before it actually left and as you'll recall, Vickers stated explicitly that SHE hired at least a portion of the crew. It never says exaclty who she hired, but given that she had zero interest in Weyland attaining his goals (the king has his reign then he dies) I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think that she INTENTIONALLY populated the expedition with goofballs. Really, only Fifield and Milburn were "goofballs" anyway and it was certainly implied that they were high while they were in the pyramid. I don't generally give potheads much credit for making great decsions while stoned.

It is possible that Vickers hired goofballs on purpose, but that is inconsistent with her will to SURVIVE. You do not bring dumbasses along on dangerous missions far from any support. The crew's actions are pretty indefensible, but you can keep trying....

Ion drives are not science fiction, btw. I was just using it as an example.
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Posted: 6/21/2012 4:05:18 PM
Originally Posted By paris-dakar:
Originally Posted By FiftyCalibre:

Originally Posted By George_in_Wis:

What was with the Lawrence of Arabia references? That just happens to be one of my all-time favorite movies, but I can't figure out how it relates to this story. Was it simply a plot device to give David some depth? Was it an homage by Scott (or Lindelof) sort of like the Steve Stills references?
I think it was to show David has feelings, since he has a favourite movie. May help to explain why David chose Holloway in particular to infect, since Holloway was a dick to David all the time



I took a slightly different angle to the David/Holloway relationship.

David specifically asked Holloway what he would do to achieve his goal (understanding the purpose of the Engineers) and Holloway replied, "Anything and everything."

Only after that reply did David move to infect Holloway, which implied (to me anyway) that David perceived consent, something that would fit in with his programming to 'serve' his human masters.

It also fit in with the recklessness of the people in the movie, rushing in to these situations that were so blatantly dangerous.


One thing to add here. David speaks with Weyland, apparently while still asleep, and we heard Weyland say "Try Harder". I take this to mean, David told him about the goo, but that he had not been able to figure out what its purpose was yet. I would say Weyland, given his motives, thought it may be something powerful, and wanted David to "try harder" to figure out what it was, because shortly after is the scene with Holloway mentioned above.

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Posted: 6/21/2012 4:08:42 PM
Originally Posted By Waveform:
It is possible that Vickers hired goofballs on purpose, but that is inconsistent with her will to SURVIVE. You do not bring dumbasses along on dangerous missions far from any support. The crew's actions are pretty indefensible, but you can keep trying....


Watch Whale Wars. The crew of Sea Shepherd are a bunch of leftwing idealists with money thrown at them on a ship. They're fucking retards and survive in spite of themselves. People with real naval experience picked their actions apart on this site as being really stupid. I find the actions of the crew of Prometheus entirely believable given the actions of present day humans on a privately funded expedition.
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Posted: 6/21/2012 4:25:40 PM
Originally Posted By hhsmiley:
...

The engineers were running from an outbreak of the black goo or some version of it that got out of control. The pile of dead engineers were killed in various ways, heads, bodies exploded. This is just what happened to the head that they brought back to Prometheus. Once they started messing with it they re-animated the goo that had been dormant in the head for the previous 2000 or so years and it blew up, which is the same thing that happened to the other engineers.



Ah, so that guy running from the deadly black goo is trying to get INTO the room filled with dozens of vases of the black goo?

Umm, ok.



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Posted: 6/21/2012 4:38:29 PM
Watched it and greatly disliked it. A mess of a plot, inconsistent and incompetent characters, holes everywhere, inappropriate mixing of mythologies, terrible pacing, and etc.

I do see it as a success in marketing. How they keep adamantly denying it's an alien prequel, but shoving every allusion they could into the movie and commercials to remind you that it's in the aliens universe. How they have Guy Pierce play old man Weyland despite not capable of sounding, acting, or looking like an old man, just so they can have him play young Weyland for the viral videos.
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Posted: 6/21/2012 8:27:48 PM
What David said to the Engineer

“This man is here because he does not want to die. He believes you can give him more life.”
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Posted: 6/22/2012 8:15:26 AM
Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:
Half the fucking movie I spent wondering when they were going to explain all the little bullshit they kept revealing sort of. And then it ended. Glad I didn't pay to see it.

Basically, all the questions people have been asking since the original came out in 1979 they skirted around in hopes you would spend money and go away disappointed.

It added nothing to the story except that humans discovered this shit before Alien.


Problem is that it also doesnt really work with the timeline of Aliens Vs Predator and it's follow-ups. The "Classic" Geiger Aliens didnt appear in this movie except for the sort-of at the end, yet timeline-wise this movie occured 90 years AFTER the events of AVP, which also showed the Predators had put the Queen Alien here a couple of dozen Milennia before the Current era.... As an Action movie? it wasnt bad, as a precursor for Alien?? Meh.. there's just too much of a divorce between how things ended up in prometheus, and how things started in "Alien"

Dont get me wrong, I enjoyed the Movie, I was just dissapointed in how it tied into the existing storyline. Oh and IMAX 3D is the Tits!!!!
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Posted: 6/22/2012 11:03:17 AM
Originally Posted By AJK07734:
Oh and IMAX 3D is the Tits!!!!

Yes it is. Glad they opened one near me.
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Posted: 6/22/2012 11:21:17 AM
Originally Posted By RCJ:
What David said to the Engineer

“This man is here because he does not want to die. He believes you can give him more life.”


Awesome. I can't wait for the BR release!
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Posted: 6/22/2012 12:03:59 PM
Originally Posted By NagOrzo15-1:
Originally Posted By hhsmiley:
...

The engineers were running from an outbreak of the black goo or some version of it that got out of control. The pile of dead engineers were killed in various ways, heads, bodies exploded. This is just what happened to the head that they brought back to Prometheus. Once they started messing with it they re-animated the goo that had been dormant in the head for the previous 2000 or so years and it blew up, which is the same thing that happened to the other engineers.



Ah, so that guy running from the deadly black goo is trying to get INTO the room filled with dozens of vases of the black goo?

Umm, ok.






Maybe they were doing damage control/ spill containment.
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