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Posted: 6/4/2012 2:54:17 PM EDT
I lost the thread where I talking about doing this.
Anyway, here is how I'm doing it. TBS did a way better, and way more expensive, job than I did. If mine works, he gets to kiss my ass. I know his will work. Anyway. You can buy ar500 plates on ebay for $79 and they are cut for a carrier. Problem is, the spalling would be insane. Here is my "how I did it". I have idea if this will work, but I will test it when I get the chance. I'll put into a carboard box, and shoot it with 5.56, if the cardboard around the edges gets all cut up, I know I'm fooked. Here are the plates as they came to me. Dirty as hell too.   Cutting up an old vest to roughly match the shape of the plate.  Shit is thick, and that vest has dozens of layers. I only need 2 or 3 I think.  Apply gorilla glue.  Lay a board over it and beat it into submission.  And.... Clamp  Now we wait 30 minutes, and rinse and repeat, 3 times. Final product: it works!  Box at 40 yards.  bang  tiny hole  Non-existent dimple on the back. You to rub hard and concentrate to find it. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 2:57:40 PM EDT
[#1]
OST ing this one.
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Posted: 6/4/2012 2:58:03 PM EDT
[#2]
Tagged
Bookmarked Looks like a great thread in the making |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 2:58:35 PM EDT
[#3]
Doesn't the Kevlar have to have "give" in it?
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Posted: 6/4/2012 2:59:49 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: Doesn't the Kevlar have to have "give" in it? Yea, if it's going to stop a full speed bullet. Since I'm stopping spalling, and it will be traveling parallel with the armor (and directly through ALL of the kevlar) I'm hoping this will stop it. We shall see. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:01:22 PM EDT
[#5]
Those appear heavy as fuck.
Heavy as a really heavy thing. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:03:22 PM EDT
[#6]
You should armor plate your car!
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:04:03 PM EDT
[#7]
in
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:05:50 PM EDT
[#8]
You did what?
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:07:41 PM EDT
[#9]
If a person where to use this for an actual "real world" application, I would suggest buying new kevlar material by the yard and making full plate pockets.
The design would be a little cleaner for the end user, a person could also criss-cross the thread patterns properly and multi-layer on one side of the plate as needed. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:07:43 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:08:03 PM EDT
[#11]
OST for the test results.
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:08:21 PM EDT
[#12]
tag
you're gonna need more kevlar |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:08:30 PM EDT
[#13]
I thought you were gonna back 'em with plywood after the first 2 pics. This seems somewhat more functional.
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:08:55 PM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:10:18 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
If a person where to use this for an actual "real world" application, I would suggest buying new kevlar material by the yard and making full plate pockets plates that are designed and rated for this sort of thing. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:11:01 PM EDT
[#16]
Ahhhhhggggg.... Damm man, gorilla glue and how many layers of kevlar from an old vest? Hell just buy the kevlar fabric and some good epoxy. Encapsulate the steel with 5 layers or so spray it with rhinoliner and call it good. I think that the gorilla glue will delamanate from the steel unless you have a good mechanical bond, but that would require a rough finish with a grinder, and even then it's spotty.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:15:32 PM EDT
[#17]
Can't wait to see the finished product.
Mods took down the original thread, but I think they are reposting it????? |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:17:09 PM EDT
[#18]
Would duct tape work in a pinch?
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:19:40 PM EDT
[#19]
What about "great stuff" expanding foam?
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:22:14 PM EDT
[#20]
yeah one of those guys started advertising "e mail me for a price!' and the thread got removed. I'll try to find out what is going on. I bought a couple of theses for laughs and am curious about bubba spall guard development
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:22:14 PM EDT
[#21]
I got my plates today so i'm tagging this to see the outcome.
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:26:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Those appear heavy as fuck. Heavy as a really heavy thing. They are. I suppose thats the trade off for not buying a ceramic set. Then again, they are $250 or more on Ebay, give or take. I doubt I'll ever need them, so I'm trying to come up with the least expensive way to survive a 7.62 or 5.56 hit. These are for SHTF, not duty use. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:29:04 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
OST for the test results. Looking forward to the video of the OP standing downrange taking multiple hits from an M1A. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:29:06 PM EDT
[#24]
if you happen to have the vests lying around that should work. Epoxy would probably be better.
If you were starting from scratch, you can get kevlar prepreg sheets and just stack up how ever many layers you like. Not sure how well a flat plate is going to work as body armor though. In this kind of application I'm wondering if you could go thinner on the steel and still stop a 5.56/7.62x39/7.62x51 round. Doesn't have to hold up to range steel plate use, just stop the round. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:29:34 PM EDT
[#25]
I did a little experiment a while back, I used 10 layers of ballistic grade kevlar and high strength epoxy, a. 223 pissed right through. Next was 10 layers of kevlar then alternated an additional 5 layers of kevlar and 5 layers of 1 1/2 oz csm glass fiber... Nope... 10 layers of kevlar, a ceramic tile encapsulated with another 10 layers of kevlar... Fail.
Next was 10 layers of kevlar a 1/4in mild steel plate encapsulated by another 10 layers of kevlar... Ya it kind of stopped the round with some fragments out the other side.... Moral of the story???? Leave body armor to the pros, that it is hard to stop rifle bullets, and I don't want to be shot by anything regardless of what I'm wearing Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:42:37 PM EDT
[#26]
tag
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:45:09 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
I did a little experiment a while back, I used 10 layers of ballistic grade kevlar and high strength epoxy, a. 223 pissed right through. Next was 10 layers of kevlar then alternated an additional 5 layers of kevlar and 5 layers of 1 1/2 oz csm glass fiber... Nope... 10 layers of kevlar, a ceramic tile encapsulated with another 10 layers of kevlar... Fail. Next was 10 layers of kevlar a 1/4in mild steel plate encapsulated by another 10 layers of kevlar... Ya it kind of stopped the round with some fragments out the other side.... Moral of the story???? Leave body armor to the pros, that it is hard to stop rifle bullets, and I don't want to be shot by anything regardless of what I'm wearing Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Difference is the OP is using AR500 steel which in 3/8" versions is used as targets that get shot with thousands of rounds of 223 before they are toast. The kevlar is just to stop the small parts of the bullet after it is destroyed by the steel. I don't think that losing a 1/8" is going to let the round right through. Not sure how much thinner a person could go, or if the stuff being sold on ebay for $79 is truly ar500. But that is what tests like this are for. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:45:25 PM EDT
[#28]
http://www.composiflex.com/Markets/Armor
Only a few layers of your spall material is needed on the side away from the body. The major thickness of kevlar or spectra or fiberglass is towards the body, I have been making this type of armor for over 20 years. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:46:21 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Moral of the story???? Leave body armor to the pros, that it is hard to stop rifle bullets, and I don't want to be shot by anything regardless of what I'm wearing Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I tried this also but not with Kevlar. Floor tile, Dynamat and a 1/8" steel backer stopped 5.56 just fine and Im pretty sure the 855 that went through did so only because I hit a seam dead center. 5.56 near the center and 855 in the crack near the bottom.  You can see whats left of the 5.56 and the obvious hole from the 855. The piece of 5.56 weighs nearly nothing as the ceramic just grinds it up as its passing through all the broken ceramic pieces.   |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:51:23 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Quoted: Those appear heavy as fuck. Heavy as a really heavy thing. They are. I suppose thats the trade off for not buying a ceramic set. Then again, they are $250 or more on Ebay, give or take. I doubt I'll ever need them, so I'm trying to come up with the least expensive way to survive a 7.62 or 5.56 hit. These are for SHTF, not duty use. You plan on rolling out with 80lbs of AR500 strapped to you during SHTF?  If this was my idea, and I posted it, I would have been laughed out of here by now. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:51:52 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I did a little experiment a while back, I used 10 layers of ballistic grade kevlar and high strength epoxy, a. 223 pissed right through. Next was 10 layers of kevlar then alternated an additional 5 layers of kevlar and 5 layers of 1 1/2 oz csm glass fiber... Nope... 10 layers of kevlar, a ceramic tile encapsulated with another 10 layers of kevlar... Fail. Next was 10 layers of kevlar a 1/4in mild steel plate encapsulated by another 10 layers of kevlar... Ya it kind of stopped the round with some fragments out the other side.... Moral of the story???? Leave body armor to the pros, that it is hard to stop rifle bullets, and I don't want to be shot by anything regardless of what I'm wearing Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Difference is the OP is using AR500 steel which in 3/8" versions is used as targets that get shot with thousands of rounds of 223 before they are toast. The kevlar is just to stop the small parts of the bullet after it is destroyed by the steel. I don't think that losing a 1/8" is going to let the round right through. Not sure how much thinner a person could go, or if the stuff being sold on ebay for $79 is truly ar500. But that is what tests like this are for. No I understand what the op is using, which is why in my first post I stated, encapsulate with 5 layers, use good epoxy and spray it with rhinoliner. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:56:00 PM EDT
[#32]
AR500 is for steel targets.
If your SHTF plans involve saving 200 bucks and wearing this; I would seriously rethink your priorities. Maybe an evasion class is in order?
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:57:05 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
http://www.composiflex.com/Markets/Armor Only a few layers of your spall material is needed on the side away from the body. The major thickness of kevlar or spectra or fiberglass is towards the body, I have been making this type of armor for over 20 years. Interesting...... I can say that 1 inch of carbon fiber does stop a fmj 55gr. 223... It just takes a chunk out of it... 1/4 inch cf the same round, goes right through Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:59:20 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Yea, I agree.Quoted: If a person where to use this for an actual "real world" application, I would suggest buying new kevlar material by the yard and making full plate pockets plates that are designed and rated for this sort of thing. I have purpose built plate sets for duty work. However, if I can build a dozen of these and have a carrier/rifle plate combo for ~$160, I can afford to hand them out during SHTF. Part of my SHTF is to hand out patrol packages. 20" A2s, 3 mags, 500 rounds, and plate carriers with triple mag pouches and plates. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 4:00:51 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: Would duct tape work in a pinch? I'm actually planning on using it to hold the edges around the sides to create the "pocket". GG won't hold on such a small edge. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 4:03:32 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Those appear heavy as fuck. Heavy as a really heavy thing. They are. I suppose thats the trade off for not buying a ceramic set. Then again, they are $250 or more on Ebay, give or take. I doubt I'll ever need them, so I'm trying to come up with the least expensive way to survive a 7.62 or 5.56 hit. These are for SHTF, not duty use. You plan on rolling out with 80lbs of AR500 strapped to you during SHTF? If this was my idea, and I posted it, I would have been laughed out of here by now. More like 14 lbs.  I already have a set of titanium stand-alones, and I train in them. The weight difference is marginal. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 4:04:00 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: AR500 is for steel targets. If your SHTF plans involve saving 200 bucks and wearing this; I would seriously rethink your priorities. Maybe an evasion class is in order? Already done. Jesus, can't a guy do an experiment anymore? |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 4:05:13 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
yeah one of those guys started advertising "e mail me for a price!' and the thread got removed. I'll try to find out what is going on. I bought a couple of theses for laughs and am curious about bubba spall guard development Yeah, I'm the idiot. I'm new to this forum and I knew there were rules and such prohibiting this stuff, but I guess I out stepped the boundaries of the "grey zone" (yeah, I know ignorance is no excuse).. Ed and I sent a couple PM's back and forth. Definitely clarified the rules for me and I definitely need to be more cautious about responding to inquiries on the forum. This is a great forum, I was given a warning, and I will oblige because I do not want to lose my priveledge of staying on here. Ed did say via PM that he would repost the thread, but that of course will be done at his discretion. I apologize to the folks that were following that thread. Again, ignorance is no excuse, but I went outside the rules and told someone to PM me in response to their question. I can accept the bashing I deserve, so give it to me gents! But yeah, that will not be happening again....that I can assure you. There is a tremendous wealth of information on this site that I do not want to lose access to. -Jeremy |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 4:08:00 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
I lost the thread where I talking about doing this. Anyway, here is how I'm doing it. TBS did a way better, and way more expensive, job than I did. If mine works, he gets to kiss my ass. I know his will work. Anyway. ............................... will this picture be posted in hotd or botd? just sayin... |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 4:08:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Quoted: Would duct tape work in a pinch? I'm actually planning on using it to hold the edges around the sides to create the "pocket". GG won't hold on such a small edge. I saw it posted earlier, but why not glue the kevlar down and then coat the plates with rhino liner? I would make the most complete package. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 4:09:03 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
If a person where to use this for an actual "real world" application, I would suggest buying new kevlar material by the yard and making full plate pockets plates that are designed and rated for this sort of thing. They make metal plates that are made and rated for armor applications. But you are still going to need some sort of spall protection beyond what the manufacturer provides as a cover. Yeah, I have ceramic plates... But, I am not going to take those out and take a chance at cracking them or chiping them and then those plates are useless in real world application. I can buy a couple sets of these plates from DSG, that have greater knock-around capacity than ceramic. They just require and additional spall pocket if something were to ever happen. But I'm not going to crack up my ceramics for training and just having a vest ready. DSG Titanium plates 
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Posted: 6/4/2012 4:13:14 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Quoted: AR500 is for steel targets. If your SHTF plans involve saving 200 bucks and wearing this; I would seriously rethink your priorities. Maybe an evasion class is in order? Already done. Jesus, can't a guy do an experiment anymore? Not really. If your plan is to get shot there are much better solutions than duct taped AR500 plates. If your plan is to survive a randomly aimed lucky shot at your plate; there are very good commercially available solutions. I think a better solution for your "problem" is to learn how to not get shot at.
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Posted: 6/4/2012 4:13:55 PM EDT
[#43]
I would use resin vs the G glue. You can get resin a depot for cheap. Coat the plate and Kevlar in the resin and the two will never separate and continue the process.
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Posted: 6/4/2012 4:17:11 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Would duct tape work in a pinch? I'm actually planning on using it to hold the edges around the sides to create the "pocket". GG won't hold on such a small edge. I saw it posted earlier, but why not glue the kevlar down and then coat the plates with rhino liner? I would make the most complete package. That would work great, except I don't have any, and I'd wager most average joes don't either. I'm trying to go with stuff you'd have laying around. Old vest, scissors, glue, etc. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 4:17:39 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If a person where to use this for an actual "real world" application, I would suggest buying new kevlar material by the yard and making full plate pockets plates that are designed and rated for this sort of thing. They make metal plates that are made and rated for armor applications. But you are still going to need some sort of spall protection beyond what the manufacturer provides as a cover. Yeah, I have ceramic plates... But, I am not going to take those out and take a chance at cracking them or chiping them and then those plates are useless in real world application. I can buy a couple sets of these plates from DSG, that have greater knock-around capacity than ceramic. They just require and additional spall pocket if something were to ever happen. But I'm not going to crack up my ceramics for training and just having a vest ready. DSG Titanium plates http://dsgarms.com/images/products/IBAIA0035B.jpg I have soft armor backers in my PC. Actually I may pick up a set of these titanium plates if they are that light. ETA - after a quick google search, scratch that. I'll stick with brands that have a solid rep. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 4:17:49 PM EDT
[#46]
OST
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Posted: 6/4/2012 4:18:16 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: AR500 is for steel targets. If your SHTF plans involve saving 200 bucks and wearing this; I would seriously rethink your priorities. Maybe an evasion class is in order? Already done. Jesus, can't a guy do an experiment anymore? Not really. If your plan is to get shot there are much better solutions than duct taped AR500 plates. If your plan is to survive a randomly aimed lucky shot at your plate; there are very good commercially available solutions. I think a better solution for your "problem" is to learn how to not get shot at. Go away. I have been through E&E training, this is not a thread about training. I suppose we should take the armor away from our guys overseas and train them better huh? Shit man. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 4:18:34 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: I would use resin vs the G glue. You can get resin a depot for cheap. Coat the plate and Kevlar in the resin and the two will never separate and continue the process. If this doesn't work, I'll do just that. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 4:18:58 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: I have a set. Light is not a word that I would use to describe them.Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If a person where to use this for an actual "real world" application, I would suggest buying new kevlar material by the yard and making full plate pockets plates that are designed and rated for this sort of thing. They make metal plates that are made and rated for armor applications. But you are still going to need some sort of spall protection beyond what the manufacturer provides as a cover. Yeah, I have ceramic plates... But, I am not going to take those out and take a chance at cracking them or chiping them and then those plates are useless in real world application. I can buy a couple sets of these plates from DSG, that have greater knock-around capacity than ceramic. They just require and additional spall pocket if something were to ever happen. But I'm not going to crack up my ceramics for training and just having a vest ready. DSG Titanium plates http://dsgarms.com/images/products/IBAIA0035B.jpg I have soft armor backers in my PC. Actually I may pick up a set of these titanium plates if they are that light. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 4:21:35 PM EDT
[#50]
Ok, enough glue bled through that I wouldn't recommend clamping with a board.
I'm just using the board to even press and then taking it off now. Trimming up the excess from the first sheet:  Second sheet going on.   |
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