Site Notices
11/20/2014 4:05:39 PM
11/19/2014 7:25:58 PM
  Previous Page
Page:  / 2
Author
Message
tax_monster
I am a low speed, high drag operator
Offline
Posts: 4347
Feedback: 100% (41)
Posted: 5/14/2012 6:55:33 PM EST
I've had a guy apply for a job with my company that's in the National Guard.

I understand the 2 weeks a year thing - they take off two weeks (hopefully with sufficient notice of the dates) and can keep their job. What about the weekend thing? When does that start? Will I lose that person Friday morning, or do they start the Guard service Friday night and are back to work on Monday morning?

Thanks
I believe that all politicians are born with a genetic flaw that compels them to meddle in the affairs of others.
Cavscouty
Proud pureskin
NRAMilitary
Offline
Posts: 7998
Feedback: 100% (67)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/14/2012 6:58:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2012 6:59:20 PM EST by Cavscouty]
You, by law, have to work around his schedule. You will know in advance when he needs weekends off. Yes it is very common the have Friday drill, he is then required to be at work Monday morning. Hire him!
Appleseed Rifleman/NRA Life Member
tax_monster
I am a low speed, high drag operator
Offline
Posts: 4348
Feedback: 100% (41)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/14/2012 7:00:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By Cavscouty:
You, by law, have to work around his schedule. You will know in advance when he needs weekends off. Yes it is very common the have Friday drill. Hire him!


What time on Friday? I can't have a crew out of town 6 hours away and have someone expect to not work on Friday morning.

I believe that all politicians are born with a genetic flaw that compels them to meddle in the affairs of others.
GoRebels
Offline
Posts: 1234
Feedback: 100% (21)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/14/2012 7:02:15 PM EST
Yes he'll have a 2 week summer camp and on weekend a month. Very rarely do Fridays become requirement unless it's a range qualification weekend or so. You should feel good to have a quality individual to work for you and serve your state at the same time.
Cavscouty
Proud pureskin
NRAMilitary
Offline
Posts: 7999
Feedback: 100% (67)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/14/2012 7:02:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2012 7:02:56 PM EST by Cavscouty]
Originally Posted By tax_monster:
Originally Posted By Cavscouty:
You, by law, have to work around his schedule. You will know in advance when he needs weekends off. Yes it is very common the have Friday drill. Hire him!


What time on Friday? I can't have a crew out of town 6 hours away and have someone expect to not work on Friday morning.



Depends. Could be 0600, could be 1800, could be never. Not everyone does Friday drills.

I do Friday drills all the time, extremely common with units that do shit at drill.
Appleseed Rifleman/NRA Life Member
GoRebels
Offline
Posts: 1235
Feedback: 100% (21)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/14/2012 7:04:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By Cavscouty:
Originally Posted By tax_monster:
Originally Posted By Cavscouty:
You, by law, have to work around his schedule. You will know in advance when he needs weekends off. Yes it is very common the have Friday drill. Hire him!


What time on Friday? I can't have a crew out of town 6 hours away and have someone expect to not work on Friday morning.



Depends. Could be 0600, could be 1800, could be never. Not everyone does Friday drills.

I do Friday drills all the time, extremely common with units that do shit at drill.


Fuck Fridays that's why I love being in a Maint. Co. That's some sho nuff troof though................

tc556guy
Member
NRAInstructorMilitary
Offline
Posts: 44448
Feedback: 100% (2)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/14/2012 7:07:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/15/2012 11:34:37 PM EST by tc556guy]
Some months they might have a MUTA 6, 7 or 8. It all depends on what the tasking for that month is. That means that he could be gone on Friday or even Thursday.
Your typical MUTA 4 drill weekend is 0700 Saturday til about 1700 hrs Sunday. Then the EM has 8 hrs before s/he has to report back to their civilian employer for their next shift.

Ask for his/her annual training schedule. That may change over the course of the year, but it'll give you an idea of when they'll be needed for their Guard job
*post contains personal opinion only and should not be considered information released in an official capacity*
Bassgasm
Musician, not Fisherman
Military
Offline
Posts: 3623
Feedback: 100% (1)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/14/2012 7:07:41 PM EST
I'm quickly learning that one weekend a month and two weeks a year does not actually mean one weekend a month and two weeks a year.

My AT is three weeks, and I'm discovering there's extra weekends of training they want me to attend.

OP- Your candidate may occasionally require some scheduling accommodations. But it can probably also be said that you are dealing with somebody that is (or at least should be) held to higher standards than most people. He should be reasonably fit, in good health, capable of passing a drug test, and perhaps has a recent background check. These are not assumptions you can make about many people.
"Boil eggs, not 1911s."-_DR

"If you have the inability to appreciate Jazz in pure form or it's mutations, then you truly are a simple minded person doomed to a life of Nascar and sorrow."-pighelmet
LANCEMAN
Member
Offline
Posts: 7745
Feedback: 100% (5)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/14/2012 7:10:17 PM EST
A drill weekend at my unit is 0700-1500 Saturday and Sunday the third weekend of each month. The twelve days of ADT are scheduled by the individual to work alongside the active duty at the same unit, usually scheduled 45 days in advance and sometime between May and August typically.

Please don't penalize someone for their reserve obligations, I got recalled to active duty for two years and my employer wouldn't take me back when I was done, claiming money was tight. I fell into a better job in the same field with a competitor literally within days so I never made an issue of it and enjoyed it when the previous employer called three weeks later asking me to come back and I could turn them down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqGS-weRSww
backbencher
Member
NRA
Online
Posts: 1502
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/14/2012 7:10:46 PM EST
tax,

We appreciate YOUR service to the country. It's tough to be a small business owner w/ troops in the Guard & the Reserves.

Ask him for a copy of his unit's scheduled drill memo & the phone number/email of his Platoon Sergeant. That will lay out the scheduled drills for the year as are currently scheduled. They can change. Some drills are MUTA 4 (Saturday/Sunday); others are MUTA 5 or 6 - Friday evening or all day Friday. He should be back to work with you Monday morning in most cases.

As it's the Guard, he'll also be on call for any state emergencies declared by your Governor, and he sometimes may be required to attend additional training funded by the Army - anything from a 2 day school at state headquarters to a MOS qualification school that lasts several months. And of course, there's always Afghanistan.

These folks will be able to help you out w/ any questions you may have:

http://www.esgr.org/site/

Of course, knowing all this, you can't discriminate against hiring him on the basis of his duties, or you'll run afoul of:

http://www.osc.gov/userra.htm

Best thing to do is ring the ESGR folks. Again, thanks for YOUR service to our country.

Gig 'em,

backbencher
(National Guard member back from Iraq last November, employed by a small business)
Felon Judd '12 - Vote for the crook! Kudos to West Virginia Democrats!
supdura
Member
Offline
Posts: 2491
Feedback: 100% (30)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/14/2012 7:10:55 PM EST
Well, there went that guy's potential job.
Cavscouty
Proud pureskin
NRAMilitary
Offline
Posts: 8000
Feedback: 100% (67)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/14/2012 7:11:51 PM EST
Nice post backbencher.
Appleseed Rifleman/NRA Life Member
Molotov357
Capitalist pig-dog
Military
Online
Posts: 9895
Feedback: 100% (51)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/14/2012 7:12:40 PM EST
2 weeks a summer can mean 14 days split up in 3-4 day segments anytime during the year.
tax_monster
I am a low speed, high drag operator
Offline
Posts: 4349
Feedback: 100% (41)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/14/2012 7:19:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By supdura:
Well, there went that guy's potential job.


Why do you say that?

I'm looking to fill a position in a two man crew, not one position with forty guys in a shop that can cover for someone if they are out a day for Guard duty. I've never hired active military / Guard before, so I need to understand what I'm in for if the guy meets the job requirements.

My concern is knowing far enough in advance when the guy will be gone that I can plan the schedule accordingly. I can't have someone tell me on Wednesday that they can't work Friday, or will be leaving in a couple of days for their 2 week commitment.

I believe that all politicians are born with a genetic flaw that compels them to meddle in the affairs of others.
Tim_the_enchanter
Member
Offline
Posts: 15894
Feedback: 100% (16)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/14/2012 7:22:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By tax_monster:
Originally Posted By Cavscouty:
You, by law, have to work around his schedule. You will know in advance when he needs weekends off. Yes it is very common the have Friday drill. Hire him!


What time on Friday? I can't have a crew out of town 6 hours away and have someone expect to not work on Friday morning.

My experience in the NG was that we rarely reported for drill on a Friday. If we did, it was in the early evening. One weekend a month, and two weeks in the summer? On paper, yes. In reality? There's a pretty good chance of being called up for something.

Deanh
Offline
Posts: 1016
Feedback: 100% (2)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/14/2012 7:28:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2012 7:29:46 PM EST by Deanh]
Depends on the unit.

When I was in some drills where 0700 saturday till 1700 sunday.

Some where 1700 friday till 1700 sunday.

Some where 0700 thursday till 1700 sunday.

AT was never 2 weeks, mostly 3, but sometimes 4 - 6 weeks if we were on a train up for deployment.

Then there are company and battalion meetings on weeknights during the month.

I was an Officer in a combat arms unit (FA), attached to a light infantry brigade.
tc556guy
Member
NRAInstructorMilitary
Offline
Posts: 44451
Feedback: 100% (2)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/14/2012 7:30:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2012 7:31:38 PM EST by tc556guy]
Originally Posted By Molotov357:
2 weeks a summer can mean 14 days split up in 3-4 day segments anytime during the year.


Never had that done that way in the Army Guard. I know when we were attached to the Air Guard guys they were able to do that. There were Air Guard guys who knocked out their entire annual obligation in one straight month. That would have been ideal.
*post contains personal opinion only and should not be considered information released in an official capacity*
Bassgasm
Musician, not Fisherman
Military
Offline
Posts: 3626
Feedback: 100% (1)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/14/2012 7:31:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By tax_monster:
Originally Posted By supdura:
Well, there went that guy's potential job.


Why do you say that?

I'm looking to fill a position in a two man crew, not one position with forty guys in a shop that can cover for someone if they are out a day for Guard duty. I've never hired active military / Guard before, so I need to understand what I'm in for if the guy meets the job requirements.

My concern is knowing far enough in advance when the guy will be gone that I can plan the schedule accordingly. I can't have someone tell me on Wednesday that they can't work Friday, or will be leaving in a couple of days for their 2 week commitment.


The Soldier should know at least a month or so in advance when he will need to be somewhere. The obvious exception to this is natural disasters.
"Boil eggs, not 1911s."-_DR

"If you have the inability to appreciate Jazz in pure form or it's mutations, then you truly are a simple minded person doomed to a life of Nascar and sorrow."-pighelmet
Phocks
Member
Online
Posts: 1418
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/14/2012 7:35:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By tax_monster:
Originally Posted By supdura:
Well, there went that guy's potential job.


Why do you say that?

I'm looking to fill a position in a two man crew, not one position with forty guys in a shop that can cover for someone if they are out a day for Guard duty. I've never hired active military / Guard before, so I need to understand what I'm in for if the guy meets the job requirements.

My concern is knowing far enough in advance when the guy will be gone that I can plan the schedule accordingly. I can't have someone tell me on Wednesday that they can't work Friday, or will be leaving in a couple of days for their 2 week commitment.



They will have their yearly schedule for the coming fiscal year, though it is sometimes subject to change, and should have no trouble giving you a copy. If they won't that's a warning sign. Once in a while things can come up - natural disasters, school slots, whatever, that is not planned for, but that should be minimal and still give at least a couple days notice (I have only once in my career been able to give less than 2 weeks notice for Reserve stuff). Changed drill dates are normally at least 60 days out. Bad news is, Annual Training for some units is up to a month now - though sometimes, as noted, it's still only 12 days or so, and often even broken up.

My personal (admittedly biased) experience has been that someone who is a good employee isn't going to let his reserve service interfere with his job any more than he can help it, and often the unit will work with him if they can. OTOH, shitbirds, the kind who will abuse their reserve status, you don't want as an employee anyway and they should give you plenty of non-military reasons to not hire/fire them.
"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." - Cardinal Richelieu
AkBearcat
Offline
Posts: 340
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/14/2012 7:44:28 PM EST
I guess that it depends on what State you are in. Here in Alaska the Guard has done all kinds of strange things for Drills and AT. Since people are more active and some jobs are more summer time, some Units tended to schedule no drills during July and Aug. To make up for the 'lost' days they did more MUTA 5's during the winter. For a long time the annual traing was during the winter as alot of the 'local' people were out of work.
I know that it can get tough to schedule around drill dates for a employee but in the long run you will be better off. As has already been stated those in the Guard tend to have a better state of mind, know how to work with little supervision, for the most part are drug free and in good health. A 'Training Schedule' is published at the begining of the year (oct) and handed to everyone. The troops are also told to ensure that their employers know well in advance what the drill dates are, so you should know well in advance when your 'Guard Member' will be not at work.
firemedic5586
Member
Military
Offline
Posts: 1266
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/14/2012 7:45:52 PM EST
I pulled the pin from the Air Guard with 24 years 7 months 4 days..

I had my years schedule I think by Sept/Oct of the previous year if I recall right. Mainly my drill (UTA) weekends were 0700 Sat-1500 Sunday. During the last few years we wouldn't have a UTA in July. That one would be a combined into a 2 seperate UTA's in one month. Also as stated our Annul Field training (AFT) 15 days a year may or may not be all in a row. AFT alot of time was broken up in to pieces here and there to combine with our UTA weekend/s.

So you does this look on a calender..

Lets go to this Aug, lets say this is when the big "War" is. 6Aug-10Aug would be 5 AFT days. 11Aug-12Aug would be UTA days. 13Aug-17Aug would be 5 more days of AFT followed up by 18Aug-19Aug as a UTA weekend.

With this being said, for me at least, the military was darned good about working around my civilian work schedule..

Originally Posted By tax_monster:
Originally Posted By supdura:
Well, there went that guy's potential job.


Why do you say that?

I'm looking to fill a position in a two man crew, not one position with forty guys in a shop that can cover for someone if they are out a day for Guard duty. I've never hired active military / Guard before, so I need to understand what I'm in for if the guy meets the job requirements.

My concern is knowing far enough in advance when the guy will be gone that I can plan the schedule accordingly. I can't have someone tell me on Wednesday that they can't work Friday, or will be leaving in a couple of days for their 2 week commitment.



There comes a time when you look into the mirror and realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. Then you accept it, or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking into mirrors."
iiibdsiil
Could Be 0bama's Son
Offline
Posts: 5439
Feedback: 100% (5)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/14/2012 7:49:52 PM EST
We hired a guy that was reliable as all hell but had to do some reserve stuff. One of his supers had a fit when they found out. The other super said "I have his schedule for the next 6 months. The guy you want to keep? I don't know if he'll show up tomorrow or not."

If you can make it work and he's qualified for the position, it probably won't be one of your worst decisions.
As a general rule (in life as well as in G.D.), horse cock is always over the line. ~ DK-Prof
sigman
Offline
Posts: 1454
Feedback: 100% (10)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/14/2012 8:01:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By tax_monster:
Originally Posted By Cavscouty:
You, by law, have to work around his schedule. You will know in advance when he needs weekends off. Yes it is very common the have Friday drill. Hire him!


What time on Friday? I can't have a crew out of town 6 hours away and have someone expect to not work on Friday morning.



He will have his annual schedule at the start of the fiscal year, however it may change slightly throughout the year. You/he should no no later than 3 weeks out when his drill will be for a given month. Three weeks should be plenty of time to plan around. Look at it this way, he's serving his country on those weekends maintaining equipment and training for his military specialty, he's not getting a three day weekend to screw off. Find out his job and rank, chances are he's a hardworker and a good guy. If he's an NCO (E-5/SGT or above) then he's show that he can follow and lead and has a strong performance history that led his leadership to promoted him. His MOS may bring experience and a skillset to the table you have not yet considered, either.
shack357
Offline
Posts: 8334
Feedback: 100% (31)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 4:40:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By tax_monster:
Originally Posted By supdura:
Well, there went that guy's potential job.


Why do you say that?

I'm looking to fill a position in a two man crew, not one position with forty guys in a shop that can cover for someone if they are out a day for Guard duty. I've never hired active military / Guard before, so I need to understand what I'm in for if the guy meets the job requirements.

My concern is knowing far enough in advance when the guy will be gone that I can plan the schedule accordingly. I can't have someone tell me on Wednesday that they can't work Friday, or will be leaving in a couple of days for their 2 week commitment.



When I was in, we got our schedule for the year in October, and drill dates rarely changed. Exceptions would be extra training,split training(make up "drills" to replace time lost at actual duty time for things like sickness or family issues) or volunteer emergency duty-I almost got sent from IA to help out in NC for hurricane relief one year. We had 3-4 times a year where were on duty Friday as well. These were noted in the schrdules we received in October.
thatguywiththeak
Offline
Posts: 2751
Feedback: 100% (7)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 4:47:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/15/2012 4:49:06 AM EST by thatguywiththeak]
Originally Posted By GoRebels:
Yes he'll have a 2 week summer camp and on weekend a month. Very rarely do Fridays become requirement unless it's a range qualification weekend or so. You should feel good to have a quality individual to work for you and serve your state at the same time.


Lol, many manager's will avoid hiring NG folks like the plague. It's wrong and it's illegal, but in at least some companies the unwritten rule is don't hire current .mil folks cause you will lose your employee fairly regularly, have to keep his job open for him, and make scheduling concessions, all by law if your hire them. Many places take the easy way out, claim the guy "isnt qualified" and move down the list. It's supremely fucked up, but with many blue color jobs it happens.
Eleven-Hotel
Offline
Posts: 264
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 4:53:58 AM EST
weekend = friday,saturday & sunday

2 weeks = 18-20 days
sigman
Offline
Posts: 1456
Feedback: 100% (10)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 4:55:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/15/2012 5:35:51 AM EST by sigman]
Originally Posted By thatguywiththeak:
Originally Posted By GoRebels:
Yes he'll have a 2 week summer camp and on weekend a month. Very rarely do Fridays become requirement unless it's a range qualification weekend or so. You should feel good to have a quality individual to work for you and serve your state at the same time.


Lol, many manager's will avoid hiring NG folks like the plague. It's wrong and it's illegal, but in at least some companies the unwritten rule is don't hire current .mil folks cause you will lose your employee fairly regularly, have to keep his job open for him, and make scheduling concessions, all by law if your hire them. Many places take the easy way out, claim the guy "isnt qualified" and move down the list. It's supremely fucked up, but with many blue color jobs it happens.


Yep, I've had a few interviewers that had a hard on for me because of my degree and skillset and loved my prior service active duty experience. Then when they found out I was in the NG their attitude changed and they wanted to wrap up the interview. This is why I'll probably stay in service with the state or fed .gov, at least they respect NG/AR service obligations, where as civ employers see you as a crutch.
Jinxsters
I see what you did there.
Military
Offline
Posts: 7669
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 5:01:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/15/2012 5:02:33 AM EST by Jinxsters]
Originally Posted By tax_monster:
Originally Posted By supdura:
Well, there went that guy's potential job.


Why do you say that?

I'm looking to fill a position in a two man crew, not one position with forty guys in a shop that can cover for someone if they are out a day for Guard duty. I've never hired active military / Guard before, so I need to understand what I'm in for if the guy meets the job requirements.

My concern is knowing far enough in advance when the guy will be gone that I can plan the schedule accordingly. I can't have someone tell me on Wednesday that they can't work Friday, or will be leaving in a couple of days for their 2 week commitment.



I'm in the Army Reserves and I believe I can answer your question. All units I've seen give out a yearly schedule that you can give to your employer so you know the dates ahead of schedule, however they can be changed. You will usually know the 2 weeks, 6 months prior to having to go for the 2 weeks. Also Fridays are really rare and maybe twice a year. That's usually reserved for FTX(Field training exercise) or BRM (Basic Rifle Marksmanship.)
"I sent [these soldiers] here and asked them to go, [and] if they die there without me then would [that] I never again bear the title of king" ~ King Richard "The Lionheart"
nickdcj7
Member
Offline
Posts: 529
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 5:05:10 AM EST
According to a friend of mine that was in the guard, the real deal is on e weekend a month and three years in Iraq.
Sheetz
Military
Offline
Posts: 604
Feedback: 100% (21)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 5:19:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By thatguywiththeak:
Originally Posted By GoRebels:
Yes he'll have a 2 week summer camp and on weekend a month. Very rarely do Fridays become requirement unless it's a range qualification weekend or so. You should feel good to have a quality individual to work for you and serve your state at the same time.


Lol, many manager's will avoid hiring NG folks like the plague. It's wrong and it's illegal, but in at least some companies the unwritten rule is don't hire current .mil folks cause you will lose your employee fairly regularly, have to keep his job open for him, and make scheduling concessions, all by law if your hire them. Many places take the easy way out, claim the guy "isnt qualified" and move down the list. It's supremely fucked up, but with many blue color jobs it happens.


This is true with my last manager. Although he was a worthless, kiss-ass yes-man he decided he wouldn't hire anyone in the NG after having to give me the weekend a month off. One time he called me and told me that he wasn't going to be able to give me the time off I needed for Drill. I simply told him that the issue was between him and the state and to leave me out of it, or put it on paper for me.
He also wouldn't hire retired police LEOs because the departments around there wouldn't hire him.
Garand_Shooter
Dealer of fine surplus goods.....
Military
Offline
Posts: 25443
Feedback: 100% (67)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 5:24:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/15/2012 5:27:58 AM EST by Garand_Shooter]
Originally Posted By tax_monster:
Originally Posted By supdura:
Well, there went that guy's potential job.


Why do you say that?

I'm looking to fill a position in a two man crew, not one position with forty guys in a shop that can cover for someone if they are out a day for Guard duty. I've never hired active military / Guard before, so I need to understand what I'm in for if the guy meets the job requirements.

My concern is knowing far enough in advance when the guy will be gone that I can plan the schedule accordingly. I can't have someone tell me on Wednesday that they can't work Friday, or will be leaving in a couple of days for their 2 week commitment.




A units rough training schedule is done a year out, and by 90 days out the weekend dates will be pretty much set in stone.

We send a copy of our yearly training schedule out to all employers, via the Soldier, as soon as we publish it. Sometimes AT dates shift up or down a week after it is published, but that is always at least 90 days prior.

You will have plenty notice. Part of his obligation to you is to provide his training schedule.

Sometimes last minute school dates come up- while it is good of you as an employer to let someone off for them, it is also good for an employee to know that accepting that school dates fucks his employer, so they won't do it. If he is a decent employee, he won't accept a last minute school slot and put you in a bind.



The Old Grouch's Military surplus
www.oldgrouch.com
MarineGrunt
Member
Offline
Posts: 3647
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 5:24:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By tax_monster:
Originally Posted By supdura:
Well, there went that guy's potential job.


Why do you say that?

I'm looking to fill a position in a two man crew, not one position with forty guys in a shop that can cover for someone if they are out a day for Guard duty. I've never hired active military / Guard before, so I need to understand what I'm in for if the guy meets the job requirements.

My concern is knowing far enough in advance when the guy will be gone that I can plan the schedule accordingly. I can't have someone tell me on Wednesday that they can't work Friday, or will be leaving in a couple of days for their 2 week commitment.



He should be able to provide you a drill and annual training (2 weeks) schedule for at least the entire Fiscal Year (Oct-Sept). These dates are determined well ahead of time.
"Panic sweeps my men when they are facing the American Marines." ~Captured North Korean Major
Garand_Shooter
Dealer of fine surplus goods.....
Military
Offline
Posts: 25444
Feedback: 100% (67)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 5:32:39 AM EST
Just an FYI when hiring a reservist/guardsman, there are some benefits to you as an employer as well.

If he submits you as a supportive employer to the ESGR program you may qualify for the program where they take employers out for a weekend and let you shoot some weapons, fly in a Chinook, and do other stuff.

In addition, if you are a small business, keep in mind that this person is eligible to purchase health insurance for himself for $96 a month, his whole family at $190 a month. If this is lower than the cost for you to provide him coverage, you can make a deal that you increase his pay by that amount and he purchase his coverage via the Army. A number of my Soldiers have made that deal with their employers and it was a win-win- it helped them get the job, and helps the employer save money.

You are also getting an employee who is in better physical shape than the general population and likely has a stronger work ethic.
The Old Grouch's Military surplus
www.oldgrouch.com
sigman
Offline
Posts: 1457
Feedback: 100% (10)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 5:38:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Just an FYI when hiring a reservist/guardsman, there are some benefits to you as an employer as well.

If he submits you as a supportive employer to the ESGR program you may qualify for the program where they take employers out for a weekend and let you shoot some weapons, fly in a Chinook, and do other stuff.

In addition, if you are a small business, keep in mind that this person is eligible to purchase health insurance for himself for $96 a month, his whole family at $190 a month. If this is lower than the cost for you to provide him coverage, you can make a deal that you increase his pay by that amount and he purchase his coverage via the Army. A number of my Soldiers have made that deal with their employers and it was a win-win- it helped them get the job, and helps the employer save money.

You are also getting an employee who is in better physical shape than the general population and likely has a stronger work ethic.


+1
Barring a complete turd on his way towards a negative chapter/ discharge, even a mediocre soldier is typically a better worker than the average civilan. The .mil is good at beating some work ethic into you.
Garand_Shooter
Dealer of fine surplus goods.....
Military
Offline
Posts: 25445
Feedback: 100% (67)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 5:56:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By sigman:
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Just an FYI when hiring a reservist/guardsman, there are some benefits to you as an employer as well.

If he submits you as a supportive employer to the ESGR program you may qualify for the program where they take employers out for a weekend and let you shoot some weapons, fly in a Chinook, and do other stuff.

In addition, if you are a small business, keep in mind that this person is eligible to purchase health insurance for himself for $96 a month, his whole family at $190 a month. If this is lower than the cost for you to provide him coverage, you can make a deal that you increase his pay by that amount and he purchase his coverage via the Army. A number of my Soldiers have made that deal with their employers and it was a win-win- it helped them get the job, and helps the employer save money.

You are also getting an employee who is in better physical shape than the general population and likely has a stronger work ethic.


+1
Barring a complete turd on his way towards a negative chapter/ discharge, even a mediocre soldier is typically a better worker than the average civilan. The .mil is good at beating some work ethic into you.

When you keep in mind that something around 75% of the general population is ineligible for military service. Be it physical condition, drug use, cognitive ability, or criminal history. A service member has been screened and continues to be screened for this if they stay in the reserve components.
The Old Grouch's Military surplus
www.oldgrouch.com
RickNC
Offline
Posts: 4818
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 6:04:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bassgasm:
I'm quickly learning that one weekend a month and two weeks a year does not actually mean one weekend a month and two weeks a year.

My AT is three weeks, and I'm discovering there's extra weekends of training they want me to attend.

OP- Your candidate may occasionally require some scheduling accommodations. But it can probably also be said that you are dealing with somebody that is (or at least should be) held to higher standards than most people. He should be reasonably fit, in good health, capable of passing a drug test, and perhaps has a recent background check. These are not assumptions you can make about many people.


Yep. I did a stint in the guard after active duty. I had no idea it would take up so much of my time.
94five0
S-6 MAFIA
Military
Online
Posts: 1586
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 8:54:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By RickNC:
Originally Posted By Bassgasm:
I'm quickly learning that one weekend a month and two weeks a year does not actually mean one weekend a month and two weeks a year.

My AT is three weeks, and I'm discovering there's extra weekends of training they want me to attend.

OP- Your candidate may occasionally require some scheduling accommodations. But it can probably also be said that you are dealing with somebody that is (or at least should be) held to higher standards than most people. He should be reasonably fit, in good health, capable of passing a drug test, and perhaps has a recent background check. These are not assumptions you can make about many people.


Yep. I did a stint in the guard after active duty. I had no idea it would take up so much of my time.


this man isn't lying. the Guard plays such an active role in theatre operations, it isn't funny. This ain't your daddies National Guard. Some of the "weekend warriors" i know have 2 combat tours.
imagine 100 percent of the responsibilites of an Active Duty component, 1/4 of the budget and training..rough picture at what your looking at.
that being said, HE should be able to provide a Training schedual and or a letter to his employeer from his Commander, just so you, HR, and Him are all on the same page.

it may be difficult to work around some times, but the employers who understand what we do, are a god send and your Service member is proud to say they work for you.
If we ain't talkin..they ain't walkin..
tc556guy
Member
NRAInstructorMilitary
Offline
Posts: 44502
Feedback: 100% (2)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 9:07:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/15/2012 9:08:12 AM EST by tc556guy]
Originally Posted By 94five0:

this man isn't lying. the Guard plays such an active role in theatre operations, it isn't funny. This ain't your daddies National Guard. Some of the "weekend warriors" i know have 2 combat tours.


Its a rare Guardsman who's been in the whole post- 9/11 period who DOESN'T have at least 2 years of mobilized time.

Lets see....my unit, post 9/11...

six months guarding airports while they stood up TSA

Personnel at nuke plants almost continuously from 2002-2008

Air Guard base security 2003-2004

Southwest Border missions 2006-2007

NYC Bridges and Tunnels activations several times

Guys backfilled other units of the BDE who went to Iraq in 2005 or so

Afghanistan 2008-2009

and now they are in Kuwait for a year after training most of 2011 for a mobilization that was changed from A-stan to Kuwait at the last minute

On top of that we were dealing with the typical every-few-years reorg in the middle of all that and about half the unit going to an MOS reclass school for an MOS that most ultimately were never awarded because the BN/ BDE didn't want guys with that MOS stolen away as backfill for other deploying units
*post contains personal opinion only and should not be considered information released in an official capacity*
VooDoo3dfx
Supreme Commander of the Forces of the Underworld
Online
Posts: 32465
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 9:13:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Just an FYI when hiring a reservist/guardsman, there are some benefits to you as an employer as well.

If he submits you as a supportive employer to the ESGR program you may qualify for the program where they take employers out for a weekend and let you shoot some weapons, fly in a Chinook, and do other stuff.

In addition, if you are a small business, keep in mind that this person is eligible to purchase health insurance for himself for $96 a month, his whole family at $190 a month. If this is lower than the cost for you to provide him coverage, you can make a deal that you increase his pay by that amount and he purchase his coverage via the Army. A number of my Soldiers have made that deal with their employers and it was a win-win- it helped them get the job, and helps the employer save money.

You are also getting an employee who is in better physical shape than the general population and likely has a stronger work ethic.


With all due respect, (and this is coming from someone who has an immediate family member in the guard), that is not 100% true.

The stories I heard about individuals who are in the guard, and their true motivation for being in it (ie, college bennies and a paycheck) and can't wait to get out... make me wonder what has become of our armed forces.

My view.

ككافر
tc556guy
Member
NRAInstructorMilitary
Offline
Posts: 44503
Feedback: 100% (2)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 9:20:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:

With all due respect, (and this is coming from someone who has an immediate family member in the guard), that is not 100% true.

The stories I heard about individuals who are in the guard, and their true motivation for being in it (ie, college bennies and a paycheck) and can't wait to get out... make me wonder what has become of our armed forces.



It is cyclical.

With the impending drawdowns, you'll be seeing many of those types getting out , either on their own accord or shown the door for failure to maintain to standard
*post contains personal opinion only and should not be considered information released in an official capacity*
Garand_Shooter
Dealer of fine surplus goods.....
Military
Offline
Posts: 25446
Feedback: 100% (67)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 9:23:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/15/2012 9:24:31 AM EST by Garand_Shooter]
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Just an FYI when hiring a reservist/guardsman, there are some benefits to you as an employer as well.

If he submits you as a supportive employer to the ESGR program you may qualify for the program where they take employers out for a weekend and let you shoot some weapons, fly in a Chinook, and do other stuff.

In addition, if you are a small business, keep in mind that this person is eligible to purchase health insurance for himself for $96 a month, his whole family at $190 a month. If this is lower than the cost for you to provide him coverage, you can make a deal that you increase his pay by that amount and he purchase his coverage via the Army. A number of my Soldiers have made that deal with their employers and it was a win-win- it helped them get the job, and helps the employer save money.

You are also getting an employee who is in better physical shape than the general population and likely has a stronger work ethic.


With all due respect, (and this is coming from someone who has an immediate family member in the guard), that is not 100% true.

The stories I heard about individuals who are in the guard, and their true motivation for being in it (ie, college bennies and a paycheck) and can't wait to get out... make me wonder what has become of our armed forces.

My view.



Right now 100% of the people in the US military either enlisted or re-enlisted during time of war.

100%. Sure, they may have wanted something else as well, but every single one has raised their hand and signed up or resigned knowing the nation was at war. Those who just joined for the college money expecting to never deploy are long gone.

Does my unit have a few shitbags? Of course. And we are actively kicking them out too. But take any unit and compare it to a random sample of their peers in the civilian world and you will see a huge difference.
The Old Grouch's Military surplus
www.oldgrouch.com
VooDoo3dfx
Supreme Commander of the Forces of the Underworld
Online
Posts: 32466
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 9:29:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Just an FYI when hiring a reservist/guardsman, there are some benefits to you as an employer as well.

If he submits you as a supportive employer to the ESGR program you may qualify for the program where they take employers out for a weekend and let you shoot some weapons, fly in a Chinook, and do other stuff.

In addition, if you are a small business, keep in mind that this person is eligible to purchase health insurance for himself for $96 a month, his whole family at $190 a month. If this is lower than the cost for you to provide him coverage, you can make a deal that you increase his pay by that amount and he purchase his coverage via the Army. A number of my Soldiers have made that deal with their employers and it was a win-win- it helped them get the job, and helps the employer save money.

You are also getting an employee who is in better physical shape than the general population and likely has a stronger work ethic.


With all due respect, (and this is coming from someone who has an immediate family member in the guard), that is not 100% true.

The stories I heard about individuals who are in the guard, and their true motivation for being in it (ie, college bennies and a paycheck) and can't wait to get out... make me wonder what has become of our armed forces.

My view.



Right now 100% of the people in the US military either enlisted or re-enlisted during time of war.

100%. Sure, they may have wanted something else as well, but every single one has raised their hand and signed up or resigned knowing the nation was at war. Those who just joined for the college money expecting to never deploy are long gone.

Does my unit have a few shitbags? Of course. And we are actively kicking them out too. But take any unit and compare it to a random sample of their peers in the civilian world and you will see a huge difference.


The unit I am referring to hasn't deployed in over 8 years. Many of them expect never to deploy by the end if their contract.

Just my experience. YMMV
ككافر
tc556guy
Member
NRAInstructorMilitary
Offline
Posts: 44505
Feedback: 100% (2)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 9:34:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:

The unit I am referring to hasn't deployed in over 8 years. Many of them expect never to deploy by the end if their contract.

Just my experience. YMMV


What kind of unit are they?
*post contains personal opinion only and should not be considered information released in an official capacity*
colesteele
Offline
Posts: 1866
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 9:47:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/15/2012 9:53:06 AM EST by colesteele]
Ask him for his unit's training schedule. He should have it for the remanider of the year (end of September). By the end of October he should provide you with the new training schedule for next year.

Members of the National Guard are authorized 48 periods per fiscal year (October to September). These periods are called MUTAs, Multiple Unit Training Assembly. There no more than 2 periods or MUTAs per day. One period or MUTA is equivelant to 1 day of Active duty pay. The training schedule will look like this or simuliar:

DATE_______________________ MUTA_________________________TRAINING________________________LOCATION
1-3 June 2012 ...................................5........................................................ SQD LFX ..............................................FT Riley, KS
18-20 July 2012 ............................... 6......................................................... PLT LFX .............................................. FT Campbell, KY

This means, during a MUTA 5, he has to report to his armory Friday evening at approximately 1830. The remainder of Friday evening is period 1. Saturday & Sunday are the remaining 4 periods. The location is where the unit will travel to from the armory, not where he has to report to. During a MUTA 6 he would have to be at the armory at 0630, basically, during a MUTA 6 or greater, you lose him all day Friday. On the rare occassion, there may be a MUTA 8 which means he is gone Thursday and Friday.

Annual training is not included in the MUTA count. When a Guardsman goes on Annual Training they are on Active Duty for Training (ADT) orders. It is one day for one day. Most AT's are 2 weeks (15 Days), Saturday to Saturday. The exception would be for a train-up prior to mobilization/deployment or an OCONUS Annual Training, Combined Manuever Training Center, Hoehenfells, Germany for example.

If for whatever reason you absolutely cannot let him go for Annual Training, he has the option of Year Round Training (YRT), but instead of loosing him for 2 weeks, you will loose him for 3 weeks. The reason for this is because the unit is accomodating the individual soldier and he is performing is AT requirment at the Armory during the normal duty week. Hopefully doing something meaningful but more than likely being an office bitch or armory buetification.

Hope this helps.
ceverett
Offline
Posts: 9767
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 9:55:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By 94five0:

this man isn't lying. the Guard plays such an active role in theatre operations, it isn't funny. This ain't your daddies National Guard. Some of the "weekend warriors" i know have 2 combat tours.


Its a rare Guardsman who's been in the whole post- 9/11 period who DOESN'T have at least 2 years of mobilized time.

Lets see....my unit, post 9/11...

six months guarding airports while they stood up TSA

Personnel at nuke plants almost continuously from 2002-2008

Air Guard base security 2003-2004

Southwest Border missions 2006-2007

NYC Bridges and Tunnels activations several times

Guys backfilled other units of the BDE who went to Iraq in 2005 or so

Afghanistan 2008-2009

and now they are in Kuwait for a year after training most of 2011 for a mobilization that was changed from A-stan to Kuwait at the last minute

On top of that we were dealing with the typical every-few-years reorg in the middle of all that and about half the unit going to an MOS reclass school for an MOS that most ultimately were never awarded because the BN/ BDE didn't want guys with that MOS stolen away as backfill for other deploying units

I know a guy in the Air Guard who, IIRC, deployed at least 3 times to Iraq. I think he's out of the guard now, but it seemed he was always gone then.
wingnutx
Super Karate Monkey Death Car
Military
Offline
Posts: 34755
Feedback: 100% (1)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 10:04:11 AM EST
We mostly start drills saturday morning. Periodically we will do a 4 day (thurs-sun) drill and then skip the next month.

Ask him. His drilling may be very minimal.

I happen to drill A LOT, but I also use my own vacation time to do so, and I am not typical. The higher you get up the food chain the more time you put in.
Arfcom's Razor: All other things being equal, the correct answer is usually "conspiracy".
VooDoo3dfx
Supreme Commander of the Forces of the Underworld
Online
Posts: 32467
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 10:57:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:

The unit I am referring to hasn't deployed in over 8 years. Many of them expect never to deploy by the end if their contract.

Just my experience. YMMV


What kind of unit are they?


Ill IM you.
ككافر
chomme
Offline
Posts: 36
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 11:18:25 AM EST
tax_monster
I am a low speed, high drag operator
Offline
Posts: 4350
Feedback: 100% (41)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 5:40:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/15/2012 5:50:48 PM EST by tax_monster]
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Just an FYI when hiring a reservist/guardsman, there are some benefits to you as an employer as well.

If he submits you as a supportive employer to the ESGR program you may qualify for the program where they take employers out for a weekend and let you shoot some weapons, fly in a Chinook, and do other stuff.

In addition, if you are a small business, keep in mind that this person is eligible to purchase health insurance for himself for $96 a month, his whole family at $190 a month. If this is lower than the cost for you to provide him coverage, you can make a deal that you increase his pay by that amount and he purchase his coverage via the Army. A number of my Soldiers have made that deal with their employers and it was a win-win- it helped them get the job, and helps the employer save money.

You are also getting an employee who is in better physical shape than the general population and likely has a stronger work ethic.


Hmmmmm.. Fly in a helicopter, maybe get a few pounds of C-4 as a parting gift.... I could accept that.

ETA: This is probably dumb, but the employer isn't expected to pay for the time the employee takes off for his 2 week training, right?

ETA #2: He listed his MOS as 92Y. What does this mean to me?


I believe that all politicians are born with a genetic flaw that compels them to meddle in the affairs of others.
Garand_Shooter
Dealer of fine surplus goods.....
Military
Offline
Posts: 25449
Feedback: 100% (67)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 5:44:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By tax_monster:
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Just an FYI when hiring a reservist/guardsman, there are some benefits to you as an employer as well.

If he submits you as a supportive employer to the ESGR program you may qualify for the program where they take employers out for a weekend and let you shoot some weapons, fly in a Chinook, and do other stuff.

In addition, if you are a small business, keep in mind that this person is eligible to purchase health insurance for himself for $96 a month, his whole family at $190 a month. If this is lower than the cost for you to provide him coverage, you can make a deal that you increase his pay by that amount and he purchase his coverage via the Army. A number of my Soldiers have made that deal with their employers and it was a win-win- it helped them get the job, and helps the employer save money.

You are also getting an employee who is in better physical shape than the general population and likely has a stronger work ethic.


Hmmmmm.. Fly in a helicopter, maybe get a few pounds of C-4 as a parting gift.... I could accept that.

ETA: This is probably dumb, but the employer isn't expected to pay for the time the employee takes off for his 2 week training, right?



No. Your only legal obligation is to allow them to go and not penalize them for it.

A few employers go above and beyond and will pay any difference in pay, so if the employee makes less while doing military duty the employers chips in to equal their normal. Sears is one company that does. But that is well above and beyond and is pretty rare.
The Old Grouch's Military surplus
www.oldgrouch.com
SRT_312
Offline
Posts: 989
Feedback: 100% (4)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/15/2012 9:08:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/15/2012 9:09:31 PM EST by SRT_312]
Originally Posted By tax_monster:
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Just an FYI when hiring a reservist/guardsman, there are some benefits to you as an employer as well.

If he submits you as a supportive employer to the ESGR program you may qualify for the program where they take employers out for a weekend and let you shoot some weapons, fly in a Chinook, and do other stuff.

In addition, if you are a small business, keep in mind that this person is eligible to purchase health insurance for himself for $96 a month, his whole family at $190 a month. If this is lower than the cost for you to provide him coverage, you can make a deal that you increase his pay by that amount and he purchase his coverage via the Army. A number of my Soldiers have made that deal with their employers and it was a win-win- it helped them get the job, and helps the employer save money.

You are also getting an employee who is in better physical shape than the general population and likely has a stronger work ethic.


Hmmmmm.. Fly in a helicopter, maybe get a few pounds of C-4 as a parting gift.... I could accept that.

ETA: This is probably dumb, but the employer isn't expected to pay for the time the employee takes off for his 2 week training, right?

ETA #2: He listed his MOS as 92Y. What does this mean to me?




God forbid a company compensate someone for service to the country.

We have several local employers who not only pay for the two week drill, they actually maintain salary level during deployments.
  Previous Page
Page:  / 2