Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) - Page 1

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 5/11/2012 7:50:34 PM EDT

Couple of questions for those in the know:

1) Comes from some sort of nuclear detonation, right?

2) Most administrations (not necessarily our current shitstain-in-chief) have considered such a use of EMP alone against us on a level with a nuclear attack, right?

3) Does it affect things like flashlights with batteries?

Posted: 5/11/2012 7:52:04 PM EDT

[#1]

Lots of ways to generate one, one being a side effect of nukes.

2. Doubtful.

3. Google Faraday Box

Posted: 5/11/2012 7:55:11 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Couple of questions for those in the know:

1) Comes from some sort of nuclear detonation, right?

2) Most administrations (not necessarily our current shitstain-in-chief) have considered such a use of EMP alone against us on a level with a nuclear attack, right?

3) Does it affect things like flashlights with batteries?

1. Comes from a NUDET, yes.

2. Not sure what policy is on that.

3. You are not likely going to have a problem with a flashlight due to EMP.

This subject has been extensively discussed in the survival forum here.

It remains highly controversial, with one big reason being that NO ONE REALLY KNOWS what effect EMP is going to have on modern high tech electronic devices.

Posted: 5/11/2012 7:55:27 PM EDT

[#3]

Since an EMP big enough to be noticed would be the opening of a nuclear exchange, I figure that at that point I will have much bigger concerns than if my I-pad stops working.

Posted: 5/11/2012 7:55:47 PM EDT

[#4]

There's a few people here pretty knowledgable on them that will chime in. I'm not one of those guys, so I'll just put my cap on and sit in the corner.

Posted: 5/11/2012 7:59:37 PM EDT

[#5]

an emp will knock out all pn junctions in electronic components
a standard flashlight will be fine

A p–n junction is formed at the boundary between a p-type and n-type semiconductor created in a single crystal of semiconductor by doping, for example by ion implantation, diffusion of dopants, or by epitaxy (growing a layer of crystal doped with one type of dopant on top of a layer of crystal doped with another type of dopant). If two separate pieces of material were used, this would introduce a grain boundary between the semiconductors that severely inhibits its utility by scattering the electrons and holes

Posted: 5/11/2012 8:02:55 PM EDT

[#6]

Nuclear det. creates a magnetic field which causes an electrical potential inside circuits/processors when it passes over them. It's this potential that can overwhelm their capacity and fry the tiny internal connections. It's similar to how a generator works. Passing a magnetic field along a coil of wire can cause electrons to move along the coil, thus creating electricity. In the case of EMP, it's a very strong magnetic field.

Your flashlight is a simple system with no parts sensitive to such attacks.

Quoted:

Couple of questions for those in the know:

1) Comes from some sort of nuclear detonation, right?

2) Most administrations (not necessarily our current shitstain-in-chief) have considered such a use of EMP alone against us on a level with a nuclear attack, right?

3) Does it affect things like flashlights with batteries?

Posted: 5/11/2012 8:05:03 PM EDT

[#7]

Will my pacemaker continue to function?

Posted: 5/11/2012 8:09:12 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
an emp will knock out all pn junctions in electronic components
a standard flashlight will be fine

A p–n junction is formed at the boundary between a p-type and n-type semiconductor created in a single crystal of semiconductor by doping, for example by ion implantation, diffusion of dopants, or by epitaxy (growing a layer of crystal doped with one type of dopant on top of a layer of crystal doped with another type of dopant). If two separate pieces of material were used, this would introduce a grain boundary between the semiconductors that severely inhibits its utility by scattering the electrons and holes

I consider myself a pretty smart guy.... but I have no stinking clue WTH you said.

Given this, will a non-computerized car be fine? In other words, I can't see how a lead-acid battery and an alternator/starter could be knocked out if a simple flashlight will be fine. Is it just a circuit board that will be fried?

5th grade response, please. I'm a civil engineer that just barely changes light bulbs.

Posted: 5/11/2012 8:15:35 PM EDT

[#9]

Modern cars may stop running and require a restart, but they won't usually fry anything important.

Kharn

Posted: 5/11/2012 8:19:34 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
an emp will knock out all pn junctions in electronic components
a standard flashlight will be fine

A p–n junction is formed at the boundary between a p-type and n-type semiconductor created in a single crystal of semiconductor by doping, for example by ion implantation, diffusion of dopants, or by epitaxy (growing a layer of crystal doped with one type of dopant on top of a layer of crystal doped with another type of dopant). If two separate pieces of material were used, this would introduce a grain boundary between the semiconductors that severely inhibits its utility by scattering the electrons and holes

I consider myself a pretty smart guy.... but I have no stinking clue WTH you said.

Given this, will a non-computerized car be fine? In other words, I can't see how a lead-acid battery and an alternator/starter could be knocked out if a simple flashlight will be fine. Is it just a circuit board that will be fried?

5th grade response, please. I'm a civil engineer that just barely changes light bulbs.

5th grade response......your shit inst going to work after an emp

Posted: 5/11/2012 8:19:39 PM EDT

[#11]

Here are some good resources for getting up to speed on EMP:
- Wikipedia entry on EMP - Very thorough, yet not too long a read.
- Report of the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack - Kind of long, but has some interesting actual test results.
- Federation of American Scientists: Nuclear Weapon EMP Effects
- Glasstone's Blog
Jerry Emanuelson's Discussion of Soviet Test 184
- ARRL Part 1 of 4-Part Article: Intro to EMP
- ARRL Part 2 of 4-Part Article: EMP Protection Devices
- ARRL Part 3 of 4-Part Article: EMP Implications for Communications
- ARRL Part 4 of 4-Part Article: EMP Protection for Communications

Posted: 5/11/2012 8:20:29 PM EDT

[#12]

Not sure how things would react inside the alternator/battery circuit but I'm guessing you'll probably be ok in an older vehicle like described.

Quoted:

Quoted:

an emp will knock out all pn junctions in electronic components

a standard flashlight will be fine

A p–n junction is formed at the boundary between a p-type and n-type semiconductor created in a single crystal of semiconductor by doping, for example by ion implantation, diffusion of dopants, or by epitaxy (growing a layer of crystal doped with one type of dopant on top of a layer of crystal doped with another type of dopant). If two separate pieces of material were used, this would introduce a grain boundary between the semiconductors that severely inhibits its utility by scattering the electrons and holes

I consider myself a pretty smart guy.... but I have no stinking clue WTH you said.

Given this, will a non-computerized car be fine? In other words, I can't see how a lead-acid battery and an alternator/starter could be knocked out if a simple flashlight will be fine. Is it just a circuit board that will be fried?

5th grade response, please. I'm a civil engineer that just barely changes light bulbs.

Posted: 5/11/2012 8:28:55 PM EDT

[#13]

So there are different ways to generate an EMP? I thought, for instance, that a high-altitude nuclear detonation over CONUS could cause one that would affect the entire country. Of course the actual nuclear detonation wouldn't harm anything as it would be high up and therefore the perp would be able to claim "We didn't actually nuke you" despite the widespread damage it would cause. I'd also heard years back that such an attack, given it's potential for overwhelming disruption, would be considered and responded to just as a nuclear attack would be.

A local syndicated radio guy I listen to, Phil Valentine, occasionally interviews a former Iranian spy, Reza something-or-other. This is his pseudo-name as he would have a high probability of being killed. The dude apparently did some spying for the West back in the 80's and (I think) 90's. He was talking about this specifically today in regards to Khameini's recent statements about 2/3 of Americans not surviving the coming Shiite version of the Apocalypse. Reza speculated that an EMP, perhaps generated from a satellite or vessel right near the coast, could over time cause something like this.

Posted: 5/11/2012 8:35:15 PM EDT

[#14]

From what I've heard people make it sound like, one would ruin the whole country. I think it would be more isolated to the area it goes off. But it would sure screw up what was in it's area if it is as bad as what some say.
I'm not to eager to find out what it would be like though.

Posted: 5/11/2012 8:36:18 PM EDT

[#15]

According to Call of Duty, an EMP is sooooooooo powerful it will knock out the radioactive tritium in a Trijicon Acog.

Posted: 5/11/2012 8:37:55 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
According to Call of Duty, an EMP is sooooooooo powerful it will knock out the radioactive tritium in a Trijicon Acog.

Now THAT would piss me off!

Posted: 5/11/2012 9:03:22 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
So there are different ways to generate an EMP? I thought, for instance, that a high-altitude nuclear detonation over CONUS could cause one that would affect the entire country.

Detonated at a high enough altitude, a large nuke could indeed affect most of the entire continent.

However, there aren't many nations that are capable of (1.) building a nuke that large, and (2.) launching it that high over the US. We ain't talking about a stolen russian suitcase bomb in a Cessna, here - It would take SERIOUS hardware to accomplish.

Posted: 5/11/2012 9:29:34 PM EDT

[#18]

1. no, its a byproduct
2. yes, homeland security takes care of it, its under cyber warfare
3. how many batteries do you have? taken out on our grid in a military/terrorist act could cripple the country within 3 days which in turn could cause world wide pandemonium.
nuclear power plants overheating like what happened in japan, only across our great nation, like dominoes.
power plants are some of the most attacked places, on average they are attacked every 10 to 20 seconds.
Cyber infrastructures are easier to attack than using emp's.
That's something you should be worried about instead. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/hpm.htm

Posted: 5/11/2012 9:49:28 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Couple of questions for those in the know:

1) Comes from some sort of nuclear detonation, right? A high altitude nuke is the only way to generate wide area, significant EMP.

2) Most administrations (not necessarily our current shitstain-in-chief) have considered such a use of EMP alone against us on a level with a nuclear attack, right? Blowing up a nuke above the US isn't gonna be looked upon kindly. For one thing, it's probably going to be followed by nukes going off much closer to the ground.

3) Does it affect things like flashlights with batteries? No, at least not at any levels that are generated by any known mechanism. If EMP fucks up your flashlight, your already dead. Anyone who says otherwise has read to much fiction.

EMP as a terrorist weapon rates as big a threat as the zombie apocalypse. As a weapon from a state as part of an real all out nuclear exchange, it's more likely... But at that point you have bigger problems.

Posted: 5/11/2012 9:52:40 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:

So there are different ways to generate an EMP? I thought, for instance, that a high-altitude nuclear detonation over CONUS could cause one that would affect the entire country.

Detonated at a high enough altitude, a large nuke could indeed affect most of the entire continent.

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/1166/hempradiusue3.gif

However, there aren't many nations that are capable of (1.) building a nuke that large, and (2.) launching it that high over the US. We ain't talking about a stolen russian suitcase bomb in a Cessna, here - It would take SERIOUS hardware to accomplish.

That map is basically wrong. For several reasons. EMP does not distribute in nice circles like that, it follows magnetic lines. And just because your in line-of-sight doesn't mean that your going to be impacted. EMP doesn't get to violate the laws of physics. Further, very large bombs short the EMP process out, so a 10MT bomb would be pretty stupid as an EMP device.

Posted: 5/11/2012 9:55:13 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

So there are different ways to generate an EMP? I thought, for instance, that a high-altitude nuclear detonation over CONUS could cause one that would affect the entire country. Of course the actual nuclear detonation wouldn't harm anything as it would be high up and therefore the perp would be able to claim "We didn't actually nuke you" despite the widespread damage it would cause. I'd also heard years back that such an attack, given it's potential for overwhelming disruption, would be considered and responded to just as a nuclear attack would be.

A local syndicated radio guy I listen to, Phil Valentine, occasionally interviews a former Iranian spy, Reza something-or-other. This is his pseudo-name as he would have a high probability of being killed. The dude apparently did some spying for the West back in the 80's and (I think) 90's. He was talking about this specifically today in regards to Khameini's recent statements about 2/3 of Americans not surviving the coming Shiite version of the Apocalypse. Reza speculated that an EMP, perhaps generated from a satellite or vessel right near the coast, could over time cause something like this.

A vessel near the coast won't generate EMP. You can't generate it using the nuke mechanism in an atmosphere (well, you can, but anybody impacted is going to be several thousand degrees already)

Posted: 5/11/2012 9:57:29 PM EDT

[#22]

I always chalked up it's actual capabilities to Y2K-like hysteria.

Posted: 5/11/2012 10:32:01 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
I always chalked up it's actual capabilities to Y2K-like hysteria.

Kinda like solar flares may be overrated?

Posted: 5/11/2012 10:52:36 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
So there are different ways to generate an EMP? I thought, for instance, that a high-altitude nuclear detonation over CONUS could cause one that would affect the entire country. Of course the actual nuclear detonation wouldn't harm anything as it would be high up and therefore the perp would be able to claim "We didn't actually nuke you" despite the widespread damage it would cause. I'd also heard years back that such an attack, given it's potential for overwhelming disruption, would be considered and responded to just as a nuclear attack would be.

A local syndicated radio guy I listen to, Phil Valentine, occasionally interviews a former Iranian spy, Reza something-or-other. This is his pseudo-name as he would have a high probability of being killed. The dude apparently did some spying for the West back in the 80's and (I think) 90's. He was talking about this specifically today in regards to Khameini's recent statements about 2/3 of Americans not surviving the coming Shiite version of the Apocalypse. Reza speculated that an EMP, perhaps generated from a satellite or vessel right near the coast, could over time cause something like this.

I think it's safe to bet that if there's an inbound nuke, our counterstrike will be in the air long before we know whether or not it's an upper atmospheric detonation.

Posted: 5/11/2012 11:06:08 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I always chalked up it's actual capabilities to Y2K-like hysteria.

Kinda like solar flares may be overrated?

Solar flares actually generate EMP. Magically, all our stuff still works. EMP is a concern if your designing certain things. But in practice, it's just not something to be concerned with.

Posted: 5/11/2012 11:10:44 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Not sure how things would react inside the alternator/battery circuit but I'm guessing you'll probably be ok in an older vehicle like described.

Quoted:

Quoted:

an emp will knock out all pn junctions in electronic components

a standard flashlight will be fine

A p–n junction is formed at the boundary between a p-type and n-type semiconductor created in a single crystal of semiconductor by doping, for example by ion implantation, diffusion of dopants, or by epitaxy (growing a layer of crystal doped with one type of dopant on top of a layer of crystal doped with another type of dopant). If two separate pieces of material were used, this would introduce a grain boundary between the semiconductors that severely inhibits its utility by scattering the electrons and holes

I consider myself a pretty smart guy.... but I have no stinking clue WTH you said.

Given this, will a non-computerized car be fine? In other words, I can't see how a lead-acid battery and an alternator/starter could be knocked out if a simple flashlight will be fine. Is it just a circuit board that will be fried?

5th grade response, please. I'm a civil engineer that just barely changes light bulbs.

Modern Cars have been exposed to EMP. Worst case, shut it off and restart it. No permanent damage. The only thing really vulnerable is large networks, like telephone lines or the power grid. There is considerable debate as to how effective EMP would be in practice against that infrastructure. Testing tends to show random failures, but stuff still works for the most part. A weaponized EMP would be bad news, and very, very expensive.... But it's not gonna kick us back to the stone age.

Posted: 5/11/2012 11:34:31 PM EDT

[#27]

There have been solar flares large enough to melt telegraph wires:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tomchivers/100008500/nasas-2013-solar-flare-warning-how-much-do-we-need-to-worry/

In 1859 a huge solar storm burned out telegraph wires across Europe and the United States. Dr Stuart Clark has written a book, The Sun Kings, about when that happened. He says that the "Carrington flare", as it was known, "smothered two-thirds of the Earth’s skies in a blood-red aurora a night later, and crippled all of global navigation and global communication, such as it was at that time. Compasses span uselessly and the telegraph network went down as phantom electricity surged through the wire."

Solar flares have been recently responsible for power grid outages in Canada and Europe:

http://www.ips.gov.au/Educational/1/3/12

If a Carrington event happened today the US grid would end up a smoking mess of blown transformers and melted wires. And we'd likely face meltdowns at multiple nuclear reactors.

Posted: 5/11/2012 11:37:07 PM EDT

[#28]

Just what we need, another EMP thread sure to be filled with disinformation and science fiction.

Quoted:
Couple of questions for those in the know:

1) Comes from some sort of nuclear detonation, right?

Lots of things can generate pulses of electromagnetic energy. An electrical arc for example, lightning being an extreme example. Or on a very small scale, inside a photo flash or other strobe light.

Though, when people fret over SHTF from "EMP" they usually mean powerful EMP resulting from a nuclear detonation.

There are two variations of EMP from nuclear detonations to discuss. First is the direct EMP radio/microwave burst that comes along with the rest of the electromagnetic pulse that you can see as the blinding visible flash as well as the searing thermal pulse of infra red radiation. If you're at close enough range to the detonation for EMP induced electrical problems, you have a far bigger problem just a couple seconds behind it in the blast wave. EMP energy dissipates very rapidly with distance away from the burst.

The second variation is the fabled high altitude high megaton nuclear detonation, where the products of the burst interact with the earth's own atmosphere and magnetic fields to create a pulse that covers a massive area. This is a much lower intensity pulse and at lower frequencies, so is really only a threat to things connected to very long conductors like power lines.

2) Most administrations (not necessarily our current shitstain-in-chief) have considered such a use of EMP alone against us on a level with a nuclear attack, right?

Attacking with a megaton size nuclear weapon, I'm pretty certain, would be considered a nuclear attack.

3) Does it affect things like flashlights with batteries?

Not in any way that you need to worry about, see answer to question 1.

By all means don't do a search for "EMP" to find the current biweekly repetitive, not to mention repetitive, discussions of EMP.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_18/572228_Would_a_strong_EMP_short_out_battery_powered_optics_.html
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_17/656344_EMP_protection_Faraday_cage.html

Lofting a 10MT nuclear weapon up to several hundred miles altitude above the USA would require a medium to heavy lift space launch capability, not to mention that only two nations have ever successfully made a weapon that large. It's not something some terrorists are going to pull off from a trawler off the coast.

Posted: 5/11/2012 11:40:38 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

There have been solar flares large enough to melt telegraph wires:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tomchivers/100008500/nasas-2013-solar-flare-warning-how-much-do-we-need-to-worry/

In 1859 a huge solar storm burned out telegraph wires across Europe and the United States. Dr Stuart Clark has written a book, The Sun Kings, about when that happened. He says that the "Carrington flare", as it was known, "smothered two-thirds of the Earth’s skies in a blood-red aurora a night later, and crippled all of global navigation and global communication, such as it was at that time. Compasses span uselessly and the telegraph network went down as phantom electricity surged through the wire."

Solar flares have been recently responsible for power grid outages in Canada and Europe:

http://www.ips.gov.au/Educational/1/3/12

If a Carrington event happened today the US grid would end up a smoking mess of blown transformers and melted wires. And we'd likely face meltdowns at multiple nuclear reactors.

Doubtful, to say the least. The current grid is FAR better protected than the telegraph lines of the day, which were pretty much a perfectly designed system to collect that energy and do something dramatic with it. We have enough warning of major solar events to protect systems from serious damage. There would be damage, sure, but meltdowns and multiple nuclear reactors? Bullshit.

Posted: 5/11/2012 11:42:41 PM EDT

[#30]

The EMP pulser with a special Antenna is capable of shutting down a computer at a distance of 15 meters.

http://www.amazing1.com/emp.htm

Posted: 5/11/2012 11:53:01 PM EDT

[#31]

An EMP is basically like flipping on a HUGE FUCKING MAGNET for an instant. It induces a current in pretty much everything that can conduct one.

Integrated circuits can be very susceptible to damage due to this current. Most mundane things like a simple flashlight likely won't be harmed.

Posted: 5/11/2012 11:55:59 PM EDT

[#32]

I don't understand that EMP hype. Its highly doubt that terrorists will waste their precious, one and only nuke, for EMP,more likely it will be ground burst. Otherwise in a global nuclear exchange,the EMP will be the last thing to worried me.

Posted: 5/11/2012 11:59:41 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

I don't understand that EMP hype. Its highly doubt that terrorists will waste their precious, one and only nuke, for EMP,more likely it will be ground burst. Otherwise in a global nuclear exchange,the EMP will be the last thing to worried me.

That's the bottom line. If you were an AQ leader, and had one nuke, would you risk sending it up on a missle (that could be destroyed) in the long shot hope that it would generate an EMP, and that the EMP would be disruptive? It's far from a guarantee... Maybe a 10% chance of success for major infrastructure damage... All you might get is a pretty light show and some scat tared power outages...

Or would you blow it up in times square where you could guarantee millions dead?

Posted: 5/12/2012 12:06:54 AM EDT

[#34]

Or, what if the bad guys just break into CalTech and steal a pinch!

What's a pinch?

Posted: 5/12/2012 12:07:22 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't understand that EMP hype. Its highly doubt that terrorists will waste their precious, one and only nuke, for EMP,more likely it will be ground burst. Otherwise in a global nuclear exchange,the EMP will be the last thing to worried me.

That's the bottom line. If you were an AQ leader, and had one nuke, would you risk sending it up on a missle (that could be destroyed) in the long shot hope that it would generate an EMP, and that the EMP would be disruptive? It's far from a guarantee... Maybe a 10% chance of success for major infrastructure damage... All you might get is a pretty light show and some scat tared power outages...

Or would you blow it up in times square where you could guarantee millions dead?

Actually I wasn't really wondering about Al Qaeda, mostly the douchebag Iranians on their quest for worldwide Apocalypse. They don't, in the foreseeable future, have the ability to get into a nuclear exchange with us. However, I'm sure EMP is something those cocksuckers have looked at as a way to bring the Great Satan to it's knees with their comparatively limited resources.

Now that I see it is a bit overblown all is well.

May call the radio show next week and impart this information.

Posted: 5/12/2012 12:14:14 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I don't understand that EMP hype. Its highly doubt that terrorists will waste their precious, one and only nuke, for EMP,more likely it will be ground burst. Otherwise in a global nuclear exchange,the EMP will be the last thing to worried me.

That's the bottom line. If you were an AQ leader, and had one nuke, would you risk sending it up on a missle (that could be destroyed) in the long shot hope that it would generate an EMP, and that the EMP would be disruptive? It's far from a guarantee... Maybe a 10% chance of success for major infrastructure damage... All you might get is a pretty light show and some scat tared power outages...

Or would you blow it up in times square where you could guarantee millions dead?

Actually I wasn't really wondering about Al Qaeda, mostly the douchebag Iranians on their quest for worldwide Apocalypse. They don't, in the foreseeable future, have the ability to get into a nuclear exchange with us. However, I'm sure EMP is something those cocksuckers have looked at as a way to bring the Great Satan to it's knees with their comparatively limited resources.

Now that I see it is a bit overblown all is well.

May call the radio show next week and impart this information.

Blowing up NYC or Washington DC would cause far more damage to the nation as a whole than an EMP ever would....

Thanks for coming here with an open mind.

Posted: 5/12/2012 1:38:15 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Couple of questions for those in the know:

1) Comes from some sort of nuclear detonation, right?Yes, but there are also other ways to do a low order EMP effect with explosives. to get the electromagnetic pulse that everyone frets over you need a large weapon high in altitude, appx sixty to seventy miles. This is where things get problematic as it's very hard to get a big enough weapon to that altitude. In the simplest terms: After that the gamma radiation starts stripping electrons off the atoms in the atmosphere and our magnetic field gives them a spin. Any length of antenna will pick up induced voltage, the longer it is, not necessarily larger, the more it'll pick up.

2) Most administrations (not necessarily our current shitstain-in-chief) have considered such a use of EMP alone against us on a level with a nuclear attack, right? Yes and no. It's pretty widely discredited for use on a large scale, i.e. end of the world stuff that everyone goes "ZOMG EMP!!!" about. There's only one nuclear explosion that cause that kind of thing, and it sits eight light minutes away.

3) Does it affect things like flashlights with batteries? Nope. It affects things that have long conductors like powerlines and transformers. Flashlights etc will be pretty much unaffected. There are piles of other factors too, such as: Is the item housed inside a structure, is it inside metal, is the case of the item grounded, is it ungrounded, etc.

Posted: 5/12/2012 1:46:05 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
an emp will knock out all pn junctions in electronic components
a standard flashlight will be fine

A p–n junction is formed at the boundary between a p-type and n-type semiconductor created in a single crystal of semiconductor by doping, for example by ion implantation, diffusion of dopants, or by epitaxy (growing a layer of crystal doped with one type of dopant on top of a layer of crystal doped with another type of dopant). If two separate pieces of material were used, this would introduce a grain boundary between the semiconductors that severely inhibits its utility by scattering the electrons and holes

I consider myself a pretty smart guy.... but I have no stinking clue WTH you said.

What he's saying is that there are two kinds of transistors: PNP and NPN, in addition to diodes which only have two, allowing current flow in only one direction before it burns out. Transistors are important, and very vulnerable to inducetd voltages as the voltage will affect bias, i.e. whatever voltage is necssary to tell the transistor to allow current flow across the PN barrier. It's like a gatekeeper who needs a bribe to allow current to flow. When you give it enough, it opens a door. In an induced voltage situation, you're getting voltage down one leg, *AND* down the other at the same time as the gatekeeper is letting current leave down the same leg other current is already leaving, causing things to get hot. More current=more heat.

Quoted:

Given this, will a non-computerized car be fine? In other words, I can't see how a lead-acid battery and an alternator/starter could be knocked out if a simple flashlight will be fine. Is it just a circuit board that will be fried?

5th grade response, please. I'm a civil engineer that just barely changes light bulbs.

Yes, your non computerized car will be fine. Your computerized one will probably be fine too.

Posted: 5/12/2012 2:09:19 AM EDT

[#39]

Okay kiddies, Time for Turbo's electronics corner!

Today's lesson: Creating your very own EMP!!!!! (I know, you've all wanted to create your very own, now's your chance!)

Hokay, you're going to need to go to your local radioshack and get your hands on a large capacitor. One that's likely to blow your hand off if you're not careful. I'll say in the 1 full Farad level or better. We here at Arfcom aim to have fun, so go large or go to hell!

Get yourself a couple feet of twenty gauge wire. Take that wire and solder/attach one end of the wire to one pin on the capacitor. Take the rest of the wire and start wrapping it around a can of some kind, keeping in mind that you're going to remove it at some point and keep the loops of wire in loops. For extra credit, take plastic tie straps to make sure your coils stay nice and tight. Remove the can and retain the wire in loops.

Now charge up your capacitor ensuring that you do not come across the pins on that capacitor nor the end of the wire and the non wired end of the capacitor. If you do, it's going to hurt like the dickens.

Take your sacrificial piece of electronics and lovingly place it in the middle of the coils. This thing will turn a cellphone from useful to busted, will burn out RFID's, and wreck pocket radios. Get everything else you may not want to screw up and get it away from the capacitor. Now take that other end and touch it to the unwired leg of the capacitor. The loud snap and electrical discharge tells you that you've done it right.

Marvel that it's not working. You've created EMP!!!!! Happy destruction!

Posted: 5/12/2012 3:21:35 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Okay kiddies, Time for Turbo's electronics corner!

Today's lesson: Creating your very own EMP!!!!! (I know, you've all wanted to create your very own, now's your chance!)

Hokay, you're going to need to go to your local radioshack and get your hands on a large capacitor. One that's likely to blow your hand off if you're not careful. I'll say in the 1 full Farad level or better. We here at Arfcom aim to have fun, so go large or go to hell!

Get yourself a couple feet of twenty gauge wire. Take that wire and solder/attach one end of the wire to one pin on the capacitor. Take the rest of the wire and start wrapping it around a can of some kind, keeping in mind that you're going to remove it at some point and keep the loops of wire in loops. For extra credit, take plastic tie straps to make sure your coils stay nice and tight. Remove the can and retain the wire in loops.

Now charge up your capacitor ensuring that you do not come across the pins on that capacitor nor the end of the wire and the non wired end of the capacitor. If you do, it's going to hurt like the dickens.

Take your sacrificial piece of electronics and lovingly place it in the middle of the coils. This thing will turn a cellphone from useful to busted, will burn out RFID's, and wreck pocket radios. Get everything else you may not want to screw up and get it away from the capacitor. Now take that other end and touch it to the unwired leg of the capacitor. The loud snap and electrical discharge tells you that you've done it right.

Marvel that it's not working. You've created EMP!!!!! Happy destruction!

Put that away and get your check book out and lets make a real one: http://www.amazing1.com/emp.htm

Posted: 5/12/2012 3:45:23 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Will my pacemaker continue to function?

It depends, your body acts as a shield somewhat, but it depends on where you are when the pulse hits.
50/50 chance.

Posted: 5/12/2012 4:02:05 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Will my pacemaker continue to function?

It depends, your body acts as a shield somewhat, but it depends on where you are when the pulse hits.
50/50 chance.

Incorrect, pacemaker will be fine.

Induced voltage is directly proportional to antenna length.

Posted: 5/12/2012 4:16:45 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
According to Call of Duty, an EMP is sooooooooo powerful it will knock out the radioactive tritium in a Trijicon Acog.

Now THAT would piss me off!

it appears we are safe in South Florida.

Posted: 5/12/2012 4:18:27 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
Will my pacemaker continue to function?

Hmmm never thought of that.

Posted: 5/12/2012 4:26:02 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Will my pacemaker continue to function?

Unless shielded with a Faraday box, No.

You can't go through life worrying about shit like this. If it does happen, you adapt to a 1800's lifestyle until electricity can restored to your area. Your city water will be gone too, so unless you have a hand pump well, you are in for some issues.

Posted: 5/12/2012 4:41:46 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
an emp will knock out all pn junctions in electronic components
a standard flashlight will be fine

A p–n junction is formed at the boundary between a p-type and n-type semiconductor created in a single crystal of semiconductor by doping, for example by ion implantation, diffusion of dopants, or by epitaxy (growing a layer of crystal doped with one type of dopant on top of a layer of crystal doped with another type of dopant). If two separate pieces of material were used, this would introduce a grain boundary between the semiconductors that severely inhibits its utility by scattering the electrons and holes

I consider myself a pretty smart guy.... but I have no stinking clue WTH you said.

What he's saying is that there are two kinds of transistors: PNP and NPN, in addition to diodes which only have two, allowing current flow in only one direction before it burns out. Transistors are important, and very vulnerable to inducetd voltages as the voltage will affect bias, i.e. whatever voltage is necssary to tell the transistor to allow current flow across the PN barrier. It's like a gatekeeper who needs a bribe to allow current to flow. When you give it enough, it opens a door. In an induced voltage situation, you're getting voltage down one leg, *AND* down the other at the same time as the gatekeeper is letting current leave down the same leg other current is already leaving, causing things to get hot. More current=more heat.

Quoted:

Given this, will a non-computerized car be fine? In other words, I can't see how a lead-acid battery and an alternator/starter could be knocked out if a simple flashlight will be fine. Is it just a circuit board that will be fried?

5th grade response, please. I'm a civil engineer that just barely changes light bulbs.

Yes, your non computerized car will be fine. Your computerized one will probably be fine too.

Many modern cars (all Toyotas) have Faraday boxes around the ECU (car computer).

In other words if you drive a Toyota you will be fine.

Posted: 5/12/2012 4:58:37 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Will my pacemaker continue to function?

Unless shielded with a Faraday box, No.

Not true, as Turboguy1 pointed out above.

When an electrical device is exposed to MP, the strength of the resulting voltage spike depends on the length of any conductors connected to the device. Long conductors (i.e., AC power lines, phone lines, big antennas, etc.) receive a significant amount of the EM pulse; short conductors do not. Basically, each conductor behaves like an antenna - The bigger the "antenna", the stronger the EM pulse received, and thus the stronger the voltage spike generated (and thus the greater the chances of the device being damaged).

In devices that aren't connected to any long conductors, virtually no voltage spike is generated due to EMP, and thus the device is unlikely to be damaged. Most small electronic devices (i.e., cell phones, portable radios, PDAs, laptop computers, digital wristwatches, flashlights, electronic combination locks on safes, red dot sights, etc.) would fall into this category - The few inches (or fractions of an inch) of conductors present in these devices is simply too short to intercept any significant amount of the EM pulse, and thus no spike is generated within them that is sufficient to cause damage.

Posted: 5/12/2012 7:45:13 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
Many modern cars (all Toyotas) have Faraday boxes around the ECU (car computer).

In other words if you drive a Toyota you will be fine.

Well, you're right, but not because of a Faraday cage around the ECU.

Posted: 5/12/2012 7:55:39 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
In devices that aren't connected to any long conductors, virtually no voltage spike is generated due to EMP, and thus the device is unlikely to be damaged. Most small electronic devices (i.e., cell phones, portable radios, PDAs, laptop computers, digital wristwatches, flashlights, electronic combination locks on safes, red dot sights, etc.) would fall into this category - The few inches (or fractions of an inch) of conductors present in these devices is simply too short to intercept any significant amount of the EM pulse, and thus no spike is generated within them that is sufficient to cause damage.

Exactly right.

However cellular phones have a quite long antenna. They may very well be affected by a *LARGE* event. (I.e. Carrington level) Then again, the cell tower'd have been zapped into uselessness by then so it's not like the thing is going to work... Radio tower too.

Everything else you're dead on the money.

Posted: 5/12/2012 12:23:08 PM EDT

[#50]

Since no one bothers to read the repetitive yet repetitive previous EMP threads, I'll repost for the 100th time some information for comparison, for all the folks bloviating about NPN vs PNP transistors and their car blowing up, etc.

If you go nosing around on LANL's website you can find all the reports on EMP. I did and posted all the info years ago, so I'll save you the trouble.

A hypothetical 10MT high altitude (space) detonation widespread EMP event which everyone gets their panties in a wad about, produces an EMP field intensity at ground level the same as being 3/8 of a mile away from an average lightning strike. So if your pacemaker, flashlight, aimpoint/eotech, gunsafe, car, radio, pnp/npn transistor, cd/dvd, computer, etc etc etc et al has been near a thunderstorm, it's already been EMP tested.

The problem comes about from the fact that field is everywhere, so accumulates on miles-long power lines. The power transmission system itself is the most vulnerable, secondarily things connected to the power lines. Transformers and the cumulative effect of all the lightning suppression devices that they use on modern power distribution lines may (probably) blunt the overall impact to end users.

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