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Posted: 5/11/2012 5:09:18 AM EDT
This is F-16 USAF Serial Number 85-1570, The last FY85 C model built
AMARG (Boneyard) Identification Number AAFG0638
You can tell who was the last operator of this plane before it went into the Bonyard.


JACKSONVILLE, Fla., May 10, 2012 –

The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] and the U.S. Air Force completed the first manned flight of the QF-16 Full Scale Aerial Target (FSAT) on May 4 at Cecil Field in Jacksonville.
The QF-16 took off at 3:05 p.m. Eastern time and climbed to an altitude of 41,000 feet during its 66-minute flight.





The Air Force awarded a multi-year contract to Boeing in March 2010 that represented Phase I of the initial engineering, manufacturing and development of the QF-16, with options to buy up to 126 FSATs.

"With this successful first flight of the QF-16, the Air Force, Boeing and our supplier-partners have laid the groundwork for the program to enter low-rate production in 2013 and make its first production delivery in 2014," said Torbjorn Sjogren, Boeing vice president, Global Maintenance and Upgrades.

The functional check flight of the F-16, under control of a Boeing test pilot, validated the basic aircraft performance with the QF-16 drone modification package installed.
The additional hardware Boeing installs allows the QF-16 to fly in an unmanned mode while under the control of a ground-based control system such as the Gulf Range Drone Control System (GRDCS) at Tyndall Air Force Base, Fla., or the Drone Formation Control System (DFCS) at White Sands Missile Range (WSMR), N.M.

During the current test phase in Jacksonville, a GRDCS mobile trailer with portable transmission towers provides communications between the flight controller and other personnel on the ground and the QF-16 pilot.
"This was a tremendous milestone for the program and for Boeing because it signals our continued success as an off-Boeing platform support and sustainment provider," said Bob Insinna, Boeing QF-16 program manager.

The QF-16s will be a higher-performing aircraft than the QF-4 they replace and representative of fourth-generation targets. They will be flown manned or unmanned within a controlled range and equipped to evaluate how U.S. fighters and weapons will operate against potential adversaries.

Boeing will deliver six QF-16 test aircraft to Tyndall in October for additional testing over the Gulf Range.
Following the successful conclusion of these tests, Boeing will support government flight testing from Holloman Air Force Base, N.M., over the WSMR complex.

A unit of The Boeing Company, Boeing Defense, Space & Security is one of the world's largest defense, space and security businesses specializing in innovative and capabilities-driven customer solutions, and the world's largest and most versatile manufacturer of military aircraft. Headquartered in St. Louis, Boeing Defense, Space & Security is a $32 billion business with 61,000 employees worldwide. Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/boeingdefense.


Contact:
Wendy Parker
Global Services & Support
Office: +1 210-932-6640
Mobile: +1 713-201-9534
[email protected]
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:11:16 AM EDT
[#1]
I think I have seen one flying around here.



We don't normally have F-16s here so I did a double take.


 
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:25:26 AM EDT
[#2]
Our aerial targets are more capable than many countries actual air forces.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:29:32 AM EDT
[#3]
Did a little googling.  looks like that contract was awarded as early as 2010.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:30:19 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Our aerial targets are more capable than many countries actual air forces.


ROFL all too true
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:33:43 AM EDT
[#5]
When one of these takes enough damage that it cannot safely come home, but is still operational, I sure hope someone has the presence of mind to have a high quality video camera.



Nothing to loose + no soft parts to black out = interesting maneuvers.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 3:24:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Bump
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 3:27:05 PM EDT
[#7]
My uncle flew F-16's with the Boys From Syracuse in the first Gulf War. He flew over my neighborhood on training lights and would wag the wings for us as he passed overhead. To see these birds reduced to drones.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 3:29:44 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Our aerial targets are more capable than many countries actual air forces.


Link Posted: 5/11/2012 3:44:09 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
My uncle flew F-16's with the Boys From Syracuse in the first Gulf War. He flew over my neighborhood on training lights and would wag the wings for us as he passed overhead. To see these birds reduced to drones.


I remember seeing the "NY" painted on them when they taxing to and fro on whatever airfield it was they were at on CNN or another network during the buildup or maybe it was the air campaign before the ground war started (or both).

Lots of ANG wings showed up for the fight, if my memory serves me correctly.

I realize airframes wear out, develop stress cracks in the wing spars, etc.  Can't hang on to them forever.  

Think of it this way:  For every aircraft scrapped as a QF target drone, another has to be manufactured to replace it in the operating forces.  

In theory, anyway.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 3:48:02 PM EDT
[#10]
we should do the same with some old Tomcats, only paint some Iranian flags on them.
 
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 3:49:01 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
My uncle flew F-16's with the Boys From Syracuse in the first Gulf War. He flew over my neighborhood on training lights and would wag the wings for us as he passed overhead. To see these birds reduced to drones.


I remember seeing the "NY" painted on them when they taxing to and fro on whatever airfield it was they were at on CNN or another network during the buildup or maybe it was the air campaign before the ground war started (or both).

Lots of ANG wings showed up for the fight, if my memory serves me correctly.

I realize airframes wear out, develop stress cracks in the wing spars, etc.  Can't hang on to them forever.  

Think of it this way:  For every aircraft scrapped as a QF target drone, another has to be manufactured to replace it in the operating forces.  

In theory, anyway.


They are flying drones now... A proud history came to an end.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 3:56:16 PM EDT
[#12]
Has USAF (or anybody) ever used target drones to draw off the fire of an air defense network?  I was just imagining Iranians cheering as a flight of QF-16's are blown out of the sky above Tehran, with F-22's and B-2's sneaking in behind them completely unopposed.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:04:07 PM EDT
[#13]



Quoted:


we should do the same with some old Tomcats, only paint some Iranian flags on them.  


I think most F-14s were destroyed to keep Iran from getting spare parts.



 
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:05:21 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My uncle flew F-16's with the Boys From Syracuse in the first Gulf War. He flew over my neighborhood on training lights and would wag the wings for us as he passed overhead. To see these birds reduced to drones.


I remember seeing the "NY" painted on them when they taxing to and fro on whatever airfield it was they were at on CNN or another network during the buildup or maybe it was the air campaign before the ground war started (or both).

Lots of ANG wings showed up for the fight, if my memory serves me correctly.

I realize airframes wear out, develop stress cracks in the wing spars, etc.  Can't hang on to them forever.  

Think of it this way:  For every aircraft scrapped as a QF target drone, another has to be manufactured to replace it in the operating forces.  

In theory, anyway.


They are flying drones now... A proud history came to an end.


Weird, isn't it?  I'm in my '40s, and remember being very young when they came out with the red, white, and blue prototypes in the mid-'70s.  Such a beautiful bird.  The cockpit seat was angled back in such a way as to mitigate some of the effects of G-forces, and the "control stick" was mounted on the side of the cockpit instead of a stick between the legs of the pilot.  The "handle" itself didn't move from what I understand, but the "Fly By Wire" system reacted to pressure from the pilots hand in controlling the aircraft.

The F16 was cutting edge in every way for it's time.  While it's still a viable combat aircraft, it's showing its age and needs to be replaced.  Unlike tanks, they can't just be "rebuilt" cost effectively and returned to service multiple times like an armored vehicle with a few new key assemblies and a new coat of CARC paint.

Either way, they're a beautiful, graceful fighter.  At least they're not being dumped in the ocean to form artificial "reefs" like our fleet of older M60 MBTs.

Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:05:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Probably the best use of an F-16 EVER!

And manned target drones? Two birds with one stone!
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:08:41 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Has USAF (or anybody) ever used target drones to draw off the fire of an air defense network?  I was just imagining Iranians cheering as a flight of QF-16's are blown out of the sky above Tehran, with F-22's and B-2's sneaking in behind them completely unopposed.


This, put Israeli markings on them and let the Iranians cheer right up until a JDAM comes throught the roof of their bunker
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:08:44 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Probably the best use of an F-16 EVER!

And manned target drones? Two birds with one stone!


That's one way to cut manning costs.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:11:17 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
 For every aircraft scrapped as a QF target drone, another has to be manufactured to replace it in the operating forces.  


 

 By  the time it's all said and done it'll be something if we can afford to replace F-16s with F-35s at 8:1..

Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:12:27 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:

Quoted:
we should do the same with some old Tomcats, only paint some Iranian flags on them.  

I think most F-14s were destroyed to keep Iran from getting spare parts.
 


That's what I read.  Scrapped hard to prevent the Iranians from getting any usable parts to their decrepid fleet of F-14As.

Isn't that something when you think about it?  A bureaucracy so cumbersome, so unmanageable, that you can't risk puting them in the "bone yard" intact for later use in the event of a national emergency because you can't control who can buy the parts to send overseas if and when they get parted out?

Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:13:44 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
My uncle flew F-16's with the Boys From Syracuse in the first Gulf War. He flew over my neighborhood on training lights and would wag the wings for us as he passed overhead. To see these birds reduced to drones.


look at it this way; they've served well, and they're still serving, and they will go out that way.
better this than the scrapyard.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:14:16 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
 For every aircraft scrapped as a QF target drone, another has to be manufactured to replace it in the operating forces.  


 

 By  the time it's all said and done it'll be something if we can afford to replace F-16s with F-35s at 8:1..



I heard the very same arguments about the F-16.

History just repeats itself.



Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:15:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
we should do the same with some old Tomcats, only paint some Iranian flags on them.  

I think most F-14s were destroyed to keep Iran from getting spare parts.
 


That's what I read.  Scrapped hard to prevent the Iranians from getting any usable parts to their decrepid fleet of F-14As.

Isn't that something when you think about it?  A bureaucracy so cumbersome, so unmanageable, that you can't risk puting them in the "bone yard" intact for later use in the event of a national emergency because you can't control who can buy the parts to send overseas if and when they get parted out?



the DoD and Customs bust F-14 parts smuggling schemes every now and then.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:16:57 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
My uncle flew F-16's with the Boys From Syracuse in the first Gulf War. He flew over my neighborhood on training lights and would wag the wings for us as he passed overhead. To see these birds reduced to drones.


Shame !
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:18:20 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
we should do the same with some old Tomcats, only paint some Iranian flags on them.  

I think most F-14s were destroyed to keep Iran from getting spare parts.
 


That's what I read.  Scrapped hard to prevent the Iranians from getting any usable parts to their decrepid fleet of F-14As.

Isn't that something when you think about it?  A bureaucracy so cumbersome, so unmanageable, that you can't risk puting them in the "bone yard" intact for later use in the event of a national emergency because you can't control who can buy the parts to send overseas if and when they get parted out?



the DoD and Customs bust F-14 parts smuggling schemes every now and then.


I haven't heard of it for quite some time-since before the F14 fleet was retired as a matter of fact.  

I completely believe you, though.

I bet the penalties are fairly insignificant.

Impose the death penalty, and maybe that shit would stop.

Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:18:31 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Has USAF (or anybody) ever used target drones to draw off the fire of an air defense network?  I was just imagining Iranians cheering as a flight of QF-16's are blown out of the sky above Tehran, with F-22's and B-2's sneaking in behind them completely unopposed.


Your newsletter, I'll subscribe.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:19:21 PM EDT
[#26]
Does this have anything to do with the AWACS I've seen flying around here for the past few days?
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:20:38 PM EDT
[#27]



Quoted:





Quoted:

we should do the same with some old Tomcats, only paint some Iranian flags on them.  


I think most F-14s were destroyed to keep Iran from getting spare parts.

 


Can we ask Iran for help with that problem?



 
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:20:58 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My uncle flew F-16's with the Boys From Syracuse in the first Gulf War. He flew over my neighborhood on training lights and would wag the wings for us as he passed overhead. To see these birds reduced to drones.



 The "handle" itself didn't move from what I understand, but the "Fly By Wire" system reacted to pressure from the pilots hand in controlling the aircraft.


 It moves slightly, probably to help the pilot adjust his "feel". Compared to an older "between the legs" stick, though, it's just about completely stationary.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:23:43 PM EDT
[#29]



Quoted:


Does this have anything to do with the AWACS I've seen flying around here for the past few days?


I think there are some war games off the coast of FL right now.



Lots of F18s flying over, and I saw the delta wing one that plays the bad guy a day or 2 ago fly over.



 
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:25:17 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Does this have anything to do with the AWACS I've seen flying around here for the past few days?

I think there are some war games off the coast of FL right now.

Lots of F18s flying over, and I saw the delta wing one that plays the bad guy a day or 2 ago fly over.
 


F-21. Israeli-made Kfir.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:26:14 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Has USAF (or anybody) ever used target drones to draw off the fire of an air defense network?  I was just imagining Iranians cheering as a flight of QF-16's are blown out of the sky above Tehran, with F-22's and B-2's sneaking in behind them completely unopposed.



I know of a flight lead who flew ahead of his block of jets and used his F-16 to draw Iraqi fire over the target area during Desert Storm.
He dropped his bombs and pulled the stick back and went full AB, popping decoy flares to draw attention.
It worked.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:43:26 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Our aerial targets are more capable than many countries actual air forces.






Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:02:01 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My uncle flew F-16's with the Boys From Syracuse in the first Gulf War. He flew over my neighborhood on training lights and would wag the wings for us as he passed overhead. To see these birds reduced to drones.



 The "handle" itself didn't move from what I understand, but the "Fly By Wire" system reacted to pressure from the pilots hand in controlling the aircraft.


It moves slightly, probably to help the pilot adjust his "feel". Compared to an older "between the legs" stick, though, it's just about completely stationary.


That makes sense.  I remember reading about how new it all was in Readers Digest as a kid.  

Your post brings back memories.  Didn't they try both options, and went with the "movable" flight control handle (I don't know what the proper nomenclature would be) as a result of pilot preference?

In fact, If I'm not mistaken, I think the prototype aircraft (YF-16) used a wheel, wheels, or wheel design from a WWII bomber.  The article was talking about how GD saved money doing so.

I suppose back in the '70s when you had two dozen or more defense contractors cranking out various prototypes for consideration, such things were possible.

We've really sunk into the depths of procurement Hell.  

Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:28:13 PM EDT
[#34]







Quoted:




Has USAF (or anybody) ever used target drones to draw off the fire of an air defense network?  I was just imagining Iranians cheering as a flight of QF-16's are blown out of the sky above Tehran, with F-22's and B-2's sneaking in behind them completely unopposed.




http://www.vectorsite.net/twcruz_6.html


http://www.vectorsite.net/twuav_02.html#m5
Target drones like the QF-16 would not be cost effective, there are much cheaper alternatives that are purpose-built and can mimic a number of different signatures.



And to answer your question, yes. For example:

"A 40-person team of specialists, obtained from disbanded ground-launched
cruise missile units, was assembled in a few days and designated the "4468th
Tactical Reconnaissance Group".  The teams were given quick training,
equipped with 44 Navy BQM-174Cs, and sent to Saudi Arabia in two six-launcher
teams in about two weeks, arriving near the Iraqi border on 15 October 1990.
When the air war began on the night of 17 January 1991, Iraq was hit by waves
of Lockheed F-117 stealth fighters and Tomahawk cruise missiles.  38 BQM-74Cs
were assigned to be launched as a diversion for the second wave of attacks,
with the launches generally in groups of three, and 37 were launched
successfully in precisely timed waves.  One group of three was intercepted by
Iraqi aircraft, while all the others made it to target."





 
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:52:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Does this mean they have shot up all of the F-4 drones?
 
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:03:38 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Has USAF (or anybody) ever used target drones to draw off the fire of an air defense network?  I was just imagining Iranians cheering as a flight of QF-16's are blown out of the sky above Tehran, with F-22's and B-2's sneaking in behind them completely unopposed.

http://www.vectorsite.net/twcruz_6.html
http://www.vectorsite.net/twuav_02.html#m5

Target drones like the QF-16 would not be cost effective, there are much cheaper alternatives that are purpose-built and can mimic a number of different signatures.

And to answer your question, yes. For example:
"A 40-person team of specialists, obtained from disbanded ground-launchedcruise missile units, was assembled in a few days and designated the "4468thTactical Reconnaissance Group".  The teams were given quick training,equipped with 44 Navy BQM-174Cs, and sent to Saudi Arabia in two six-launcherteams in about two weeks, arriving near the Iraqi border on 15 October 1990.When the air war began on the night of 17 January 1991, Iraq was hit by wavesof Lockheed F-117 stealth fighters and Tomahawk cruise missiles.  38 BQM-74Cswere assigned to be launched as a diversion for the second wave of attacks,with the launches generally in groups of three, and 37 were launchedsuccessfully in precisely timed waves.  One group of three was intercepted byIraqi aircraft, while all the others made it to target."  


Are those really cheaper?  It seems counter intuitive that a control system added to an aircraft paid for in 1985 costs more than a control system plus a brand new (though tiny) aircraft.  But I admit I have no idea.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:05:20 PM EDT
[#37]
Man they should sell those things to US citizens. I can't believe we use them as targets
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:05:40 PM EDT
[#38]



Quoted:

Are those really cheaper?  It seems counter intuitive that a control system added to an aircraft paid for in 1985 costs more than a control system plus a brand new (though tiny) aircraft.  But I admit I have no idea.


Are you aware of the concept of "opportunity cost"? Blowing up an aircraft paid off in 1985 still has a cost due to its value.



 
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:18:04 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Has USAF (or anybody) ever used target drones to draw off the fire of an air defense network?  I was just imagining Iranians cheering as a flight of QF-16's are blown out of the sky above Tehran, with F-22's and B-2's sneaking in behind them completely unopposed.



McDonnel Aircraft prodiced the GAM 72 decoy in the late '50s and '60s.  It was carried in the bomb bay of the B-52. No warhead, just radar repeaters and chaff, it had a crude autopilot which flew the thing on a pre-programed course for about an hour mimicking the speed and altitude of the B-52.  Turbojet (J-85) powered.  I think they made several hundred of them and it was in service from about 1960 to 1978.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 7:10:31 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My uncle flew F-16's with the Boys From Syracuse in the first Gulf War. He flew over my neighborhood on training lights and would wag the wings for us as he passed overhead. To see these birds reduced to drones.



 The "handle" itself didn't move from what I understand, but the "Fly By Wire" system reacted to pressure from the pilots hand in controlling the aircraft.


It moves slightly, probably to help the pilot adjust his "feel". Compared to an older "between the legs" stick, though, it's just about completely stationary.


That makes sense.  I remember reading about how new it all was in Readers Digest as a kid.  

Your post brings back memories.  Didn't they try both options, and went with the "movable" flight control handle (I don't know what the proper nomenclature would be) as a result of pilot preference?

In fact, If I'm not mistaken, I think the prototype aircraft (YF-16) used a wheel, wheels, or wheel design from a WWII bomber.  The article was talking about how GD saved money doing so.

I suppose back in the '70s when you had two dozen or more defense contractors cranking out various prototypes for consideration, such things were possible.

We've really sunk into the depths of procurement Hell.  


I don't know about the prototype controls. I do know there was some trouble with the original fly-by-wire system that required redesign; I imagine that the technology was new enough that it needed some real work after the jet entered service.
I think the small range of movement would be helpful to the pilot, as there are a number of control knobs for him to manipulate on the stick. It would give him a more solid platform to help muscle memory locating the proper control, especially while wearing nomex gloves.

Link Posted: 5/11/2012 7:15:36 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Our aerial targets are more capable than many countries actual air forces.


I was thinking the same thing.

Where are the combloc aircraft?  Aren't they worth the cost of renovation to serve as targets?

I suspect there are some on the market.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 7:41:19 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Man they should sell those things to US citizens. I can't believe we use them as targets


Agree.  Instead, we have such a budget surplus year after year that we can afford to shoot perfectly good aircraft out of the sky.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 7:51:30 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Our aerial targets are more capable than many countries actual air forces.


I was thinking the same thing.

Where are the combloc aircraft?  Aren't they worth the cost of renovation to serve as targets?

I suspect there are some on the market.


there's the headache of grafting our stuff into their stuff.
more important, we'd have to inspect the planes carefully, as there's no way we could trust the eastern bloc records.
We could buy a plane and put money into it and have it turn out to be an overstressed piece of junk.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 7:53:16 PM EDT
[#44]
How hard would it be to make it an MQF-16?
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 7:53:33 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Are those really cheaper?  It seems counter intuitive that a control system added to an aircraft paid for in 1985 costs more than a control system plus a brand new (though tiny) aircraft.  But I admit I have no idea.

Are you aware of the concept of "opportunity cost"? Blowing up an aircraft paid off in 1985 still has a cost due to its value.
 


These jets would never fly in active service with the US again.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 8:15:32 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Man they should sell those things to US citizens. I can't believe we use them as targets


Agree.  Instead, we have such a budget surplus year after year that we can afford to shoot perfectly good aircraft out of the sky.


It's called TRAINING.  

Train as you fight, fight as you train.

Link Posted: 5/11/2012 8:19:05 PM EDT
[#47]
Why are all F-16's still built with a delta wing body design style?
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 8:22:10 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Why are all F-16's still built with a delta wing body design style?


Because
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 8:26:53 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Man they should sell those things to US citizens. I can't believe we use them as targets


Agree.  Instead, we have such a budget surplus year after year that we can afford to shoot perfectly good aircraft out of the sky.


It's called TRAINING.  

Train as you fight, fight as you train.


Were fighting F-16s ?
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 8:27:20 PM EDT
[#50]
Meh, I guess I'm OK with it, as long as they preserve a number of each model for display purposes, and stop blowing up F-4's.
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