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Posted: 4/16/2012 1:49:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By avslash:
Somebody cue the story from a year or two ago where the Canuck beath the mama grizzly to death with a stick....


I didn't see that story. But if your point was that beating a sow grizzly to death with a stick is a viable self-defense plan than I encourage you to go try...

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Posted: 4/16/2012 1:50:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght:

Originally Posted By avslash:
Somebody cue the story from a year or two ago where the Canuck beath the mama grizzly to death with a stick....

There is a story of a camp wife beating a juvenile Grizz with a frying pan between Cheyenne and Laramie when the UP was rolling through.


These stories are feel good like the basement dwelling nerd getting the supermodel.


Yup... no different than your entire retirement plan being to win the lotto...
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Posted: 4/16/2012 1:56:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/16/2012 1:59:53 PM EST by tc2k11]
One of the huge-caliber revolvers? I don't know. ETA: Since the guide has a 12ga (loaded with hard cast slugs, right?), I imagine a .44 mag and some extra bear spray is good enough.

Not that I know what I'm talking about, but I'd probably carry bear spray or a guide gun in .45-70 or some such. Maybe a .44 mag with hard cast bullets loaded hot, too, but I would prefer to use situational awareness to give me time to unsling the rifle. ETA: RIF

However weak handguns might be, it seems that .500 S&W is up to the dangerous game challenge:



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Posted: 4/16/2012 1:57:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By retgarr:
20 yards? You be fucked.


Semi auto rifle in 308 or bigger. Its tough to see pics the bear took of guys who used a handgun.
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Posted: 4/16/2012 1:59:38 PM EST
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Posted: 4/16/2012 2:00:11 PM EST
12 ga slug
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Posted: 4/16/2012 2:00:47 PM EST
Large rounds that will hold together with mucho penetration.
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Posted: 4/16/2012 2:02:59 PM EST
taurus judge
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Posted: 4/16/2012 2:10:53 PM EST
454 is what I carry.

CSF

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Posted: 4/16/2012 2:22:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By Hunt4life:
Large rounds that will hold together with mucho penetration.


In AK we always had a 12G loaded with slugs on hand. My personal side arm was a .44mag loaded with heavy, solid bullets. The general consensus being you wanted to go deep to 'break down" the bear - Get through all that muscle to break bones. Not to mention getting through that thick skull.
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Posted: 4/16/2012 3:09:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/16/2012 3:12:36 PM EST by fettesbrotde]
No 45-70 or 12ga or no go.

Fuck a handgun.
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Posted: 4/16/2012 3:24:46 PM EST
Never bring a handgun to a shotgun fight.
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Posted: 4/16/2012 3:26:38 PM EST
Watch the movie "The Edge" to get a hint of the tenacity
and determination of a 800-1200 pound Grizzly.

Then, buy the best handgun and ammo combination.

Don't leave before buying life insurance for your wife to survive on, just in case.

Sorry, dude, but 10 talibans are safer to be fighting against
than a grizzly with a handgun- any hand gun, in his own environment.
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Posted: 4/16/2012 3:33:39 PM EST
The biggest round you can reliably mag dump into a target roughly the size of a tea saucer...

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Posted: 4/16/2012 3:37:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/16/2012 3:40:24 PM EST by NorthPolar]
Originally Posted By ACEB36TC:
These comments are precisely why I posed my question. I don`t INTEND to shoot a bear. I just want a fighting chance. It is possible, but highly improbable, that the wife and I will be apart by as much as 100 yards and if this happens the guide will be WITH her. Out of curiosity,,,,how close does a bear have to be before you`re legal to shoot in self defense? I`m better than a "pretty good shot" especially when I practice properly.


What I would do is get a hunting license and harvest ticket to make things easy. If you dont want to go that route (expensive) I'd personally say 50 yards or less. Either way, read the hunting regs (available on the AK F&G website) to make your own decision on range.

There are a whole bunch of things to do if you shoot a bear in self defense. Generally affidavits from F&G etc.

Just to clarify, I meant the .44 ruger alaskan. It can handle the heaviest loads but is still manageable to get around. I would definitely practice on drawing from a chest rig with anything you get.
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Posted: 4/16/2012 3:44:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By ACEB36TC:
Thanks for all the advice (and sarcasm) guys. I am what I consider an experienced outdoorsman but this bear thing is completely new to me. My guide WILL have a pump 12 with slugs. I will ( wife also) have bear spray. I just don`t want to "need it and not have it" if the moment comes. After hearing thoughts today I`m leaning toward an S&W .50 with the 10.5 inch barrel. I do NOT want a scope on the beast. Any suggestions for a comfortable holster?


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Posted: 4/16/2012 3:57:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/16/2012 4:11:02 PM EST by ColonelPanic]
Originally Posted By lonewolf223:
Sorry, dude, but 10 talibans are safer to be fighting against
than a grizzly with a handgun- any hand gun, in his own environment.


Who the hell is selling handguns to bears?! God dammit, I'm all for the Second Amendment, but we have to draw a line somewhere people.
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Posted: 4/16/2012 4:07:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By Madcap72:

Originally Posted By Plumbata:
Sorry, you are not going to stop a charging Grizzly at 20 yards.

Any weapon that MIGHT save your ass is such a situation is too expensive and too difficult to master in the time frame you have. (Start at .416 and work your way up)

Now, I have fished Alaska a lot. I Carryied a .44 mag with 300gr hardcast or copper bonded bullets, a LARGE can of bear spray and an awareness of where you are. (Stay away from thick brush, any bear with cubs, etc)

The guide usually carried a .44, pepper spray and a 12 ga with slugs.

http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv72/gearchecker/just%20stuff/abear2.jpg




You mean exactly like this guy?
That guy who shot that was some sort of guide that lived in Alaska an been around bears. A bb heart beats like 20 times a minute. 99.5% of people would be be bear scat in a few days. Most browns will attack you from the back or travel parell then attack. Head on charges are for the movies.

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Posted: 4/16/2012 4:10:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By aimforthemedic:
Originally Posted By Madcap72:

Originally Posted By Plumbata:
Sorry, you are not going to stop a charging Grizzly at 20 yards.

Any weapon that MIGHT save your ass is such a situation is too expensive and too difficult to master in the time frame you have. (Start at .416 and work your way up)

Now, I have fished Alaska a lot. I Carryied a .44 mag with 300gr hardcast or copper bonded bullets, a LARGE can of bear spray and an awareness of where you are. (Stay away from thick brush, any bear with cubs, etc)

The guide usually carried a .44, pepper spray and a 12 ga with slugs.

http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv72/gearchecker/just%20stuff/abear2.jpg


Backstory?

You mean exactly like this guy?



I think that one was down on the Keani Peninsula
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Posted: 4/16/2012 4:10:34 PM EST
Whatever you get, be sure to file off the front sight.


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Posted: 4/16/2012 4:11:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/16/2012 4:12:59 PM EST by fatalerror113]

Originally Posted By Red_Label:
Oh... and another repeat that me and a bunch of others have said... whether you choose to pack a gun or not... DO carry bear spray. It really is THE BEST way to handle a charging bear. No worries about the Fish & Wildlife guys spanking you for spray a bear that's threatening you. In fact, most people in the know encourage that because it send a message to the bear that says "stay away from humans" and does it in such a way that the officials don't have to go tracking a wounded bear.



As a disclaimer, I'm not an expert, I just know what I've read about the topic, and seen with bear guard used against an aggressive rottweiler (dog literally stopped mid charge and did a back flip trying to get away.)

Bears have an amazing sense of smell (better than that of dogs.)

As such, it is really difficult for them to do anything when they get hit with pepper spray. Its basically the worst pain ever for them (something that a GSW MAY NOT be.)

As for handguns, yes they can work. Yes, they are better in some situations than pepper spray (if its windy, if you need to take a shot from a reasonable distance to defend someone else, etc.) Just keep in mind that many people have been killed or seriously fucked up by fatally wounded bears. Just because you get a hit or two on a bear doesn't mean you've won the fight.

Obviously long arms are much better than handguns.
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Posted: 4/16/2012 4:14:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
A pistol is a poor choice, but if that is all you carry, then so be it.

.460 S&W.

Nice thing is you can practice with .45 LC, move up to 454 Casull, and finally top it off with 460 rounds.

The .460 wounds on one end and kills on the other.

Five full power rounds are about all I can stand and my entire arm aches after shooting them.

I have the 5" version.

You can find them very very lightly used and cheap.

Mine came with a holster, brass, dies, and a box of factory 460 ammo with five rounds missing.

http://www.thegunsource.com/DisplayPic.aspx?PIC=56728





I'd love to get a 460V but they are discontinued and are expensive even used...


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Posted: 4/16/2012 4:14:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By CSFIREARMS:
454 is what I carry.

CSF

http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww181/csfirearms/P1040141.jpg


Some good hard cast bullets would be more effective on bb.
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Posted: 4/16/2012 4:34:59 PM EST
Not every bear is out to eat you.
There are not bears behind every tree.
Bear spray is your best bet
Take whatever is the largest handgun you currently own and are proficient with
Let your guide do the shooting
If you kill a bear in "self defense", your trip will turn into a legal hassle

Been fishing / hunting Alaska almost every year for the past 20. You will probably see bears on your trip. They are curious and protective critters. Just because they are close to you does not mean they are attacking you. Your guide is there for a reason and you are paying a bunch of money to have a good time so let him worry about the bears. Usually when they get close to you, you just move further away from them. Your guide will have seen this dozens of times and will probably yell at them and shake his hands up in the air. Might even fire a warning shot. If you or the guide do kill a bear, you can expect helicopters/ float planes/ boats/ ATV's etc. to show up with Alaskan Troopers and treat it as a crime scene. In the odd chance they do not show up, you will be required to skin out the bear and bring back the hide and skull. I've never been around anyone that had to shoot a bear in SD but have heard it is a royal PIA. Bear spray, flares, talking loudly, keeping an eye on your surroundings, and trusting your guide, will surely allow you to have a fun and exciting vacation. I'd bring the best camera you can carry easily as the place is just amazing. Have fun!
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Posted: 4/16/2012 4:37:55 PM EST
Bear Spray is the ONLY answer.

Anyone telling your anything else is ignorant.

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Posted: 4/16/2012 4:39:48 PM EST
Originally Posted By teamr2:
Not every bear is out to eat you.
There are not bears behind every tree.
Bear spray is your best bet
Take whatever is the largest handgun you currently own and are proficient with
Let your guide do the shooting
If you kill a bear in "self defense", your trip will turn into a legal hassle

Been fishing / hunting Alaska almost every year for the past 20. You will probably see bears on your trip. They are curious and protective critters. Just because they are close to you does not mean they are attacking you. Your guide is there for a reason and you are paying a bunch of money to have a good time so let him worry about the bears. Usually when they get close to you, you just move further away from them. Your guide will have seen this dozens of times and will probably yell at them and shake his hands up in the air. Might even fire a warning shot. If you or the guide do kill a bear, you can expect helicopters/ float planes/ boats/ ATV's etc. to show up with Alaskan Troopers and treat it as a crime scene. In the odd chance they do not show up, you will be required to skin out the bear and bring back the hide and skull. I've never been around anyone that had to shoot a bear in SD but have heard it is a royal PIA. Bear spray, flares, talking loudly, keeping an eye on your surroundings, and trusting your guide, will surely allow you to have a fun and exciting vacation. I'd bring the best camera you can carry easily as the place is just amazing. Have fun!


The handgun I have taken is a Smith 629. It is the only one I can fire with accuracy and at a rate where I might get off more than 1 round.

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Posted: 4/16/2012 4:52:26 PM EST
Fuck bear spray.
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Posted: 4/16/2012 4:56:03 PM EST
9mm will do. Just stick it in your mouth and eat it before he gets to you.
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Posted: 4/16/2012 5:11:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By HMR85:
.22 to your friends leg. Then run like hell.


Fishing with Otis?

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Posted: 4/16/2012 5:14:02 PM EST
I lived in AK for 9 years, have had this discussion several times. I always carried a 45 ACP, 9 for the bear and one for me before he or she eats me. My buddy always carried 454 Casull. Closest I ever came to having to defend myself from a brown bear was at Clear Creek up the Talketna River. Sow and 2 cubs decided they wanted the fishing hole we were in more than we did. The 2 cubs ran between me and my buddy ( 20 yards apart ) and mama hung out on the bank behind us. We left very carefully, without having to fire a shot.
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Posted: 4/16/2012 5:14:53 PM EST
Bear spray, you just have to spray yourself down with it before you go out. Those bears won't come close.

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Posted: 4/16/2012 5:19:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By mike-munich:
Pepperspray FTW!

Wait. What?

http://www.funnyreign.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Bear-Poop1.jpg


Lol
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Posted: 4/16/2012 5:19:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By Hunt4life:
Fuck bear spray.


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Posted: 4/16/2012 5:31:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght:

Originally Posted By Hunt4life:
Fuck bear spray.



I don't know about you, but I have spent a fair amount of time in the AK bush. Bristol Bay beach parties, set net sites, sleeping in a tent, walking the beach and hiking in the hills waiting for a red opening and the herring to ripen out in Togiak, fishing rivers and lakes between openings and seasons, walking/hitchhiking from Naknek to King Salmon...

If you want to trust your life to pepper spray, to each his own... I'll depend on a shotgun and a big bore revolver.


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Posted: 4/16/2012 5:33:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By Hunt4life:
Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght:

Originally Posted By Hunt4life:
Fuck bear spray.



I don't know about you, but I have spent a fair amount of time in the AK bush. Bristol Bay beach parties, set net sites, sleeping in a tent, walking the beach and hiking in the hills waiting for a red opening and the herring to ripen out in Togiak, fishing rivers and lakes between openings and seasons, walking/hitchhiking from Naknek to King Salmon...

If you want to trust your life to pepper spray, to each his own... I'll depend on a shotgun and a big bore revolver.


Yeah, fuck what science says. I'll trust my life to a less effective stopper like a handgun.



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Posted: 4/16/2012 5:38:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By 4ds4me:
I lived in AK for 9 years, have had this discussion several times. I always carried a 45 ACP, 9 for the bear and one for me before he or she eats me. My buddy always carried 454 Casull. Closest I ever came to having to defend myself from a brown bear was at Clear Creek up the Talketna River. Sow and 2 cubs decided they wanted the fishing hole we were in more than we did. The 2 cubs ran between me and my buddy ( 20 yards apart ) and mama hung out on the bank behind us. We left very carefully, without having to fire a shot.


About a year ago a hiker killed a Brown in the Denali Park in AK with a 45 ACP, it ran off and latter died. If the bear would of kept on trucking he would of been fucked. Bear, muscle and adrenaline = dangerous creature.
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Posted: 4/16/2012 5:54:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By DanaHillen:
There is no such thing.


This!!

ETA: a full on charging grizzly 20 yards out will be on you before you un-holster.
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Posted: 4/16/2012 5:54:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By jspek:
Originally Posted By kaneroy:
Bird shot should work. You dont want to kill it, just turn it.

Your gona want a major caliber rifle. 500 nitro or or something. I would look at what the dangerous game hunters in africa use.


a MOTIVATED bear prob wont turn. Bears have a HUGE amount of adrenaline and charge even when they are ,by all intents purpose,dead. I used to bear hunt (mountain grizz) in Alaska. I started out thinking a 7mag with perfect shot placement would work. First trip, I was almost dead wrong. I got lucky, i never went with less than a .375 after that.

@ 20yds, I would just pray. A charging bear will scare you so bad you cant move. You will literally freeze if you have never been in that situation. I know that much from experience. I watched him charge through the scope and when he reached 10yds, I almost had a heart attack.

OP, play it safe. Dont put yourself in a situation where you are unsure or feel unsafe. Stay away from high brush. if your fishing, dont fight a bear over your fish. wear a bell, yes they do work. carry bear spray.if you must carry a handgun a lot of guides use .44


I see you have hunted bear too, truer wordds haven't been spoken.
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Posted: 4/16/2012 5:55:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By fatalerror113:

Originally Posted By Hunt4life:
Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght:

Originally Posted By Hunt4life:
Fuck bear spray.



I don't know about you, but I have spent a fair amount of time in the AK bush. Bristol Bay beach parties, set net sites, sleeping in a tent, walking the beach and hiking in the hills waiting for a red opening and the herring to ripen out in Togiak, fishing rivers and lakes between openings and seasons, walking/hitchhiking from Naknek to King Salmon...

If you want to trust your life to pepper spray, to each his own... I'll depend on a shotgun and a big bore revolver.


Yeah, fuck what science says. I'll trust my life to a less effective stopper like a handgun.





OK, I'll listen to the well read gentleman from North Carolina, being in the heart of big wild grizz country, he had to have learned well.

Hell, pepper spray is so effective I'm considering giving up my sidearm too. New 21 foot rule: Go to pepper spray. Someone notify Tueller
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Posted: 4/16/2012 6:14:58 PM EST
I think it was Phil Shoemaker (Bear guide) that armed his daughter with a 357 full of hot 170 gr FMJs, with the reasoning being, you can't get enough ME to stop it in a handgun, so you had better concentrate on an accurate, penetrating CNS hit, and more chances are better with a lower recoilng round.
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Posted: 4/17/2012 5:22:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By Hunt4life:
Originally Posted By fatalerror113:

Originally Posted By Hunt4life:
Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght:

Originally Posted By Hunt4life:
Fuck bear spray.



I don't know about you, but I have spent a fair amount of time in the AK bush. Bristol Bay beach parties, set net sites, sleeping in a tent, walking the beach and hiking in the hills waiting for a red opening and the herring to ripen out in Togiak, fishing rivers and lakes between openings and seasons, walking/hitchhiking from Naknek to King Salmon...

If you want to trust your life to pepper spray, to each his own... I'll depend on a shotgun and a big bore revolver.


Yeah, fuck what science says. I'll trust my life to a less effective stopper like a handgun.





OK, I'll listen to the well read gentleman from North Carolina, being in the heart of big wild grizz country, he had to have learned well.

Hell, pepper spray is so effective I'm considering giving up my sidearm too. New 21 foot rule: Go to pepper spray. Someone notify Tueller


Regardless of your personal experience in AK, your IGNORANCE is on display for all to see. MANY people have fended off bears with spray. The "wacky animal guy" Jack Hannah just did it while hiking Glacier Nat'l Park with his wife last summer (or was it the summer before?). It happens often. It was developed by people who live in bear country and it was done in order not only to be effective for people who don't pack firearms, but also for those who do. I carry both in griz country and the pepper spray is the one much more likely to be used. You go wounding a bear with a firearm and you may turn what was only a bluff charge into a life or death encounter. You really are pissing up a rope with your dismissal of bear spray.

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Posted: 4/17/2012 5:25:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hunt4life:
Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght:

Originally Posted By Hunt4life:
Fuck bear spray.



I don't know about you, but I have spent a fair amount of time in the AK bush. Bristol Bay beach parties, set net sites, sleeping in a tent, walking the beach and hiking in the hills waiting for a red opening and the herring to ripen out in Togiak, fishing rivers and lakes between openings and seasons, walking/hitchhiking from Naknek to King Salmon...

If you want to trust your life to pepper spray, to each his own... I'll depend on a shotgun and a big bore revolver.



Yeah, I kinda live with Grizzly Bears.

A shotgun is ok, but a revolver of any sort is just extra weight.

You would be better off with pepper spray.

virtus junxit mors non separabit
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Posted: 4/17/2012 5:31:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2012 5:33:09 AM EST by fatalerror113]

Originally Posted By Hunt4life:
Originally Posted By fatalerror113:

Originally Posted By Hunt4life:
Originally Posted By Skg_Mre_Lght:

Originally Posted By Hunt4life:
Fuck bear spray.



I don't know about you, but I have spent a fair amount of time in the AK bush. Bristol Bay beach parties, set net sites, sleeping in a tent, walking the beach and hiking in the hills waiting for a red opening and the herring to ripen out in Togiak, fishing rivers and lakes between openings and seasons, walking/hitchhiking from Naknek to King Salmon...

If you want to trust your life to pepper spray, to each his own... I'll depend on a shotgun and a big bore revolver.


Yeah, fuck what science says. I'll trust my life to a less effective stopper like a handgun.





OK, I'll listen to the well read gentleman from North Carolina, being in the heart of big wild grizz country, he had to have learned well.

Hell, pepper spray is so effective I'm considering giving up my sidearm too. New 21 foot rule: Go to pepper spray. Someone notify Tueller
1) People anywhere in the US have access to the same studies that you do. Plenty of people in areas with bears are more uniformed about them than those in places without bears.

2) People are different than bears.
a) Humans are not as nearly affected by pepper spray as bear (which is why human OC is STRONGER than that used for bears.)
b) Humans often have weapons, such as firearms. Bears don't.
c) Humans are much more easily killed by handgun rounds than bears.

Sorry if the facts inconvenience you.


ETA::As I've said, pepper spray isn't the best option all the time. If it were me, I'd have a gun and pepper spray.

Why limit yourself?

"Well, I was lost but now I live here."
ecgRN
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Posted: 4/17/2012 5:38:59 AM EST


We go "Shotgun Bowling" with those....good times.

My choice for bears as well.
Woosah...mother fucker.
Makarov
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Posted: 4/17/2012 5:39:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2012 5:41:13 AM EST by Makarov]
"Best Pistol" for a charging Grizzly is

this


plus a set of these


most practical pistol, not so much
StarJumper
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Posted: 4/17/2012 5:43:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By ckichinko:
Just talk him down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk8pRJ7jV94


WOW That guy has balls of steel!!!

I think the AVG person would have at least shot a few rounds in to the air, the AVG ARfcommer would have mag dumped on that bear when he hit the 1st step..
FreeFloater
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Posted: 4/17/2012 5:46:45 AM EST
How about pulling a Jaws move? Put poison in the hollow point cavity and seal it in with wax...

It would have to be some fast acting poison though.
slow2by2z
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Posted: 4/17/2012 5:49:24 AM EST
Any reason you can't carry a 12 gauge like the guide is? I'd prefer that over any handgun. Also, it would be in my hands and not slung over my shoulder.
For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, "If I live, I will kill you. If I die, you are forgiven." Such is the rule of honor.
Layer60
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Posted: 4/17/2012 5:59:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2012 5:59:54 AM EST by Layer60]
Charging bear @ 20 yards vs handgun = dead.

If the gun wasn't already drawn, aimed in the general direction of said bear, of heavy caliber, and you didn't freeze, you might have a chance. Otherwise, your best hope is probably to shit yourself so you taste bad.
teamr2
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Posted: 4/17/2012 6:08:44 AM EST
This thread is filled with good and bad advice.... I would not worry about the bears as you are exponentially more likely to be killed in a float plane crash or from hypothermia and exposure.
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