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Posted: 3/14/2012 7:41:00 PM EDT
[#1]
Srebrenica Massacre - Bosnian Muslim Victim Blindfolded 
Pol Pot
Russian Child soldiers of WW2
Holocaust
Xmas - Vietnam -SEALS |
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Posted: 3/14/2012 8:03:20 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: I think the collapse of the soviet union was underway in the 80's. Gorbachev's first priority to save it was to fix the economy. Reagan kept that from happening.Quoted: Quoted: Gorbachev was powerless to fight the United States at that time. Reagan taught him well on that. George H.W. Bush aligned the world to fight the Gulf War.Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Absolutely not.Quoted: Quoted: Were they both doing Vodka shots just prior to that? I remember when Yeltsin made a visit to Sweden and was going to hold a speech in Parliament. He was shitfaced and couldn't find his way to the podium so the Speaker had to guide him and while he spoke his guards held him upright. In time, Americans will start to realize just how much we fucked up by turning our backs on Gorbachev. Not sure what we could have done, but we never should have celebrated his demise. The demise of Gorbachev was a good thing. The election of Clinton was the problem. George H. W. Bush would have managed the situation better to bring the Russians around as well as possible. Full on engagement and leadership was needed. Instead we got the blow job presidency. The problems started before Clinton was president, and there was no political will to manage the situation in the era of the "Peace Dividend." Gorbachev was the only man who could have managed it, and we cheered his demise on. The man who surrendered eastern Europe and ended the COld War. The only person in history ever to cede the Kremlin peacefully, and we left him high and dry. Yeltsin wanted a power grab, and saw the dissolution of the USSR was his chance. We cheered him on, blind to his motivations, because he used the right pro-western buzz words. I'd hate to agree with Putin on this, but that event was a geopolitical catastrophe, the repercussions of which still reverberate. A managed divorce, akin to what Czechoslovakia did, and with some adjusted borders worked out by key players, would have been far more tolerable. Gorbachev didn't want the Soviet Union to collapse. He wanted to make it stronger. His motivation for reform was to prevent a Soviet collapse. Indeed. That doesn't mean he wouldn't have let the Baltics go (and they did go, while the USSR still stood), and there wouldn't have been opportunity to assess the Caucasus and Ukraine, etc. soberly (so to speak). Arguably, Ukraine was already lost as well. A strong, comfortably secure Soviet Union re-imagined as a partner on the world stage, with friendly and amicable relations with its neighbors, would be far, far superior to what we face today, and what happened in Russia in the 1990s and what we deal with today - much of which is due to the 1990s. Yeltsin's motivation for engineering the collapse was purely self interest. Now we have Putin - a man who many seem to forget was Yeltsin's chosen successor. The coup you speak of only underscore my point. Gorbachev survived, but was weakened and Yeltsin took advantage of this. We then eagerly let Yeltsin sweep the country away from him. People still speak of that as a good thing, and even Wikipedia marks December 1991 as the end of the Cold War, not November 1989. It is hard for me to accept that 1990 could still be considered a time of Cold War, when Gorbachev was fully supporting US foreign policy, up to and including the Gulf War. Just my dos centavos. I was always worried about Gorbachev outsmarting Reagan. I was in high school when I had those thoughts. The only news in the U.S. at the time came from the New York Times which was broadcast nightly by Brokaw, Rather, and Jennings. Reagan wasn't outsmarted and we didn't let Gorbachev keep the soviet union alive. I believe George H.W. Bush would have engaged the Russians in a more positive way than the stupid redneck clinton. Bush was a naval man, a CIA man, and knew diplomacy. Billy Bob was just a second rate used car salesman that came along and got all the popular kids in the media to support him. H.W. Bush just wasn't slick and cool and he didn't handle the domestic front as well as he needed to. A little engagement without scaring the Russians may have worked. We will never know. Personally, I don't think it's too late now. But we have another clinton and obama and neither one is up to the job. So, do you believe the dissolution of the Soviet Union as engineered by Yeltsin was a positive thing in retrospect, and that Gorbachev and the USSR was still a threat to the west in the 1990s? I don't think Yeltsin engineered anything. I think the soviet union was falling apart and Gorbachev tried to save it. The old Guard communists were too stupid to save it and too stupid to help Gorbachev save it, so they tried to stop him. They were also too stupid to know they weren't in charge of anything with an economy killed by them and pushed downhill by Reagan policies to defeat them. Gorbachev was arrested and isolated while the old guard tried to take over the country. Yeltsin stood up to the old Guard and helped stop them which proved to be a popular move after the failure. Gorbachev is a socialist. He knew the old ways couldn't stand. He wanted socialism to win and he wanted to beat us. He just knew that he couldn't fight us the way the old communists did. He wanted to prove socialism under his leadership could defeat the United States. He needed to make the country an economic power to do so. I consider him in the same catagory as today's leader's in red China. I think we are better off that he failed. I think we can improve things with the Russians. We will have to wait until PutinMedvedev create their own demise. I think we are closer to that happening than ever, but they may hold on for another 5 years. The longer obama is around, the longer they will be. And Gorbachev is still there. |
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Posted: 3/14/2012 8:26:08 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Here's another "European" one that many may not recognize. Hint: it's from 1956 http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=38126 http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=38127 Hungarian uprising? |
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Posted: 3/14/2012 9:25:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
I disagree. I grew up in Europe, and before I moved to the U.S. I wouldn't have had the slightest clue what pictures of Kent State, or Martin Luther King, or the Vietnam War Memorial, or the helicopters evacuating Saigon, etc are all about. Nobody outside the U.S. read Time or Life magazine. The Time/Life was a figure of speech, any mass media: so no pics from the US ever made it over there? You were unaware these things were going on? Have a pic of what was going on over there? |
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Posted: 3/14/2012 9:31:59 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's a great photo, sad that he hung himself years later.
Quoted:
That's the one I was going to post! I guess I beat you to the punch! I'm a younger guy and only seen this picture on the web, but it really stuck with me. Almost afraid to admit this but I have no idea what that photo is from? |
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Posted: 3/14/2012 9:32:56 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Wtf? CPR? |
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Posted: 3/14/2012 10:03:32 PM EDT
[#7]
Skybolt Crisis 
Long story short, three examples of foreign relations that the US hasn't handled very well, but some better than others. |
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Posted: 3/14/2012 10:24:59 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 3/15/2012 2:41:34 AM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 3/15/2012 3:25:03 AM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 3/15/2012 3:29:00 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Notice how most pics are in the US, or involve the US somehow (iex Vietnam). Was it different in other countries? I think it's almost entirely the result of this thread being posted in the U.S. and having almost exclusively U.S. posters in it. If this were a board in Europe, I imagine most of the pictures would be WW2 and WW1 and Cold War stuff - like some of the Berlin photos posted in this thread. Yep, but for example, the Kent State pic. I'll bet that went around the world, dispite that it made headlines in countries where that may have been an every day occurrence there. In the age of Life and Time magizines, most world reconized iconic pics are American. I disagree. I grew up in Europe, and before I moved to the U.S. I wouldn't have had the slightest clue what pictures of Kent State, or Martin Luther King, or the Vietnam War Memorial, or the helicopters evacuating Saigon, etc are all about. Nobody outside the U.S. read Time or Life magazine. I do.  We're young, he's old  |
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Posted: 3/15/2012 3:37:58 AM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 3/15/2012 3:44:49 AM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 3/15/2012 3:50:00 AM EDT
[#14]
Things lost in the ocean
Squalus 
Thetis 
INS Dakar 
Thresher Last two, Palomares H Bomb incident 
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Posted: 3/15/2012 4:00:52 AM EDT
[#15]
EDDIE RICKENBACKER FAMOUS AMERICAN WW 1 FLYING ACE,1919
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Posted: 3/15/2012 4:13:00 AM EDT
[#16]
Polio and the Iron Lung
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Posted: 3/15/2012 4:37:19 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I disagree. I grew up in Europe, and before I moved to the U.S. I wouldn't have had the slightest clue what pictures of Kent State, or Martin Luther King, or the Vietnam War Memorial, or the helicopters evacuating Saigon, etc are all about. Nobody outside the U.S. read Time or Life magazine. The Time/Life was a figure of speech, any mass media: so no pics from the US ever made it over there? You were unaware these things were going on? Have a pic of what was going on over there? What I am pointing out is that SOME of the images in this thread are really only "iconic" to Americans (which they should be, since this is a thread posted by people in America), and the rest of the world would not be particularly aware of them - and stuff like the Kent State shooting is an example. Huge significance inside the U.S., but not really on the rest of the world's radar. Examples of similar images from a European perspective are some of the things I've posted in this thread: the Hungarian Uprising on 1956, a huge event in global history, but most Americans would NOT recognize the photos, or the "Whiskey on the Rocks" incident in Sweden that a giant deal in the Cold War and almost led to shot being fired in anger over a nuclear-armed submarine. Most Europeans our age would recognize the photos from the Tenerife collision of two 747s that killed about 500 people, and certainly would recognize photos of Franco and things like the Paris riots in 1968, Archduke Ferdinand, the Kaiser and stuff like that. Those are all images of significance to global history, but would not necessarily be recognized by the average American because they seem like almost more "internal" European stuff, just like things like Kent State and the Watts Riots and the MLK assassination are "internal" U.S. events that the rest of the world wasn't really particularly aware of or interested it. I'm not making an argument about right or wrong or anything, just making an observation that our perceptions of what is iconic and important is inherently subjective and is going to be focuses on our own back yard and in-group. |
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Posted: 3/15/2012 4:50:15 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I disagree. I grew up in Europe, and before I moved to the U.S. I wouldn't have had the slightest clue what pictures of Kent State, or Martin Luther King, or the Vietnam War Memorial, or the helicopters evacuating Saigon, etc are all about. Nobody outside the U.S. read Time or Life magazine. The Time/Life was a figure of speech, any mass media: so no pics from the US ever made it over there? You were unaware these things were going on? Have a pic of what was going on over there? What I am pointing out is that SOME of the images in this thread are really only "iconic" to Americans (which they should be, since this is a thread posted by people in America), and the rest of the world would not be particularly aware of them - and stuff like the Kent State shooting is an example. Huge significance inside the U.S., but not really on the rest of the world's radar. Examples of similar images from a European perspective are some of the things I've posted in this thread: the Hungarian Uprising on 1956, a huge event in global history, but most Americans would NOT recognize the photos, or the "Whiskey on the Rocks" incident in Sweden that a giant deal in the Cold War and almost led to shot being fired in anger over a nuclear-armed submarine. Most Europeans our age would recognize the photos from the Tenerife collision of two 747s that killed about 500 people, and certainly would recognize photos of Franco and things like the Paris riots in 1968, Archduke Ferdinand, the Kaiser and stuff like that. Those are all images of significance to global history, but would not necessarily be recognized by the average American because they seem like almost more "internal" European stuff, just like things like Kent State and the Watts Riots and the MLK assassination are "internal" U.S. events that the rest of the world wasn't really particularly aware of or interested it. I'm not making an argument about right or wrong or anything, just making an observation that our perceptions of what is iconic and important is inherently subjective and is going to be focuses on our own back yard and in-group. But, but, but... AMURICA! Everything else is fur fagets!!!!11 |
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Posted: 3/15/2012 4:52:52 AM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 3/15/2012 5:46:31 AM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 3/15/2012 6:44:19 AM EDT
[#21]
O.J. and the glove
Hemingway 
Jayne Mansfield and Sopia Loren 
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Posted: 3/15/2012 7:06:09 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I disagree. I grew up in Europe, and before I moved to the U.S. I wouldn't have had the slightest clue what pictures of Kent State, or Martin Luther King, or the Vietnam War Memorial, or the helicopters evacuating Saigon, etc are all about. Nobody outside the U.S. read Time or Life magazine. The Time/Life was a figure of speech, any mass media: so no pics from the US ever made it over there? You were unaware these things were going on? Have a pic of what was going on over there? What I am pointing out is that SOME of the images in this thread are really only "iconic" to Americans (which they should be, since this is a thread posted by people in America), and the rest of the world would not be particularly aware of them - and stuff like the Kent State shooting is an example. Huge significance inside the U.S., but not really on the rest of the world's radar. Examples of similar images from a European perspective are some of the things I've posted in this thread: the Hungarian Uprising on 1956, a huge event in global history, but most Americans would NOT recognize the photos, or the "Whiskey on the Rocks" incident in Sweden that a giant deal in the Cold War and almost led to shot being fired in anger over a nuclear-armed submarine. Most Europeans our age would recognize the photos from the Tenerife collision of two 747s that killed about 500 people, and certainly would recognize photos of Franco and things like the Paris riots in 1968, Archduke Ferdinand, the Kaiser and stuff like that. Those are all images of significance to global history, but would not necessarily be recognized by the average American because they seem like almost more "internal" European stuff, just like things like Kent State and the Watts Riots and the MLK assassination are "internal" U.S. events that the rest of the world wasn't really particularly aware of or interested it. I'm not making an argument about right or wrong or anything, just making an observation that our perceptions of what is iconic and important is inherently subjective and is going to be focuses on our own back yard and in-group. Interestingly enough, I've been aware of every incident you posted, but I had not generally seen the photos. |
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Posted: 3/15/2012 7:21:40 AM EDT
[#23]
Spindletop in the 1930s:
Walt Disney: Vietnam: Guernica: 
Chappaquiddick spoof: 
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Posted: 3/15/2012 7:34:25 AM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 3/15/2012 7:34:57 AM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 3/15/2012 7:35:30 AM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 3/15/2012 7:39:25 AM EDT
[#27]
Hitler . . . enough said . . .
 
 
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Posted: 3/15/2012 7:49:53 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
... I'm not making an argument about right or wrong or anything, just making an observation that our perceptions of what is iconic and important is inherently subjective and is going to be focuses on our own back yard and in-group. Interestingly enough, I've been aware of every incident you posted, but I had not generally seen the photos. I was by no means trying to imply that everyone in the U.S. would be unaware of some (or all) of those examples, just like there are SOME people in Europe who are aware of things like Kent State and the Watt riots, and John Wayne Gacy and things like that. 
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Posted: 3/15/2012 9:06:10 AM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 3/15/2012 9:09:30 AM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 3/15/2012 9:11:33 AM EDT
[#32]
 I always thought that was one of the coolest photos ever.
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Posted: 3/15/2012 9:12:02 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Jayne Mansfield and Sopia Loren http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OldyJdp0AFw/TxHD6_fWtOI/AAAAAAAAHK8/qdx1ru_dRE4/s1600/sophia-loren-and-jane-mansfield.jpg 
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Posted: 3/15/2012 10:09:24 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
I always thought that was one of the coolest photos ever.
They would have a fit in today's world |
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Posted: 3/15/2012 11:00:19 AM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 3/15/2012 7:03:28 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not very iconic...but lots of detail. http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z331/Greenley2011/onpatrol.jpg Those are reenactors. Im not so sure... the photo was part of an actual vintage set when I found it. 
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Posted: 3/15/2012 7:42:04 PM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 3/15/2012 7:45:03 PM EDT
[#38]
tag
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Posted: 3/15/2012 7:51:16 PM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 3/15/2012 7:52:49 PM EDT
[#40]
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Posted: 3/15/2012 8:21:58 PM EDT
[#41]
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Posted: 3/15/2012 8:27:17 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
I always thought that was one of the coolest photos ever.How was work today Honey,......... Nothing special baby, same old stuff day after day.
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Posted: 3/15/2012 9:03:06 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: ... I'm not making an argument about right or wrong or anything, just making an observation that our perceptions of what is iconic and important is inherently subjective and is going to be focuses on our own back yard and in-group. Interestingly enough, I've been aware of every incident you posted, but I had not generally seen the photos. I was by no means trying to imply that everyone in the U.S. would be unaware of some (or all) of those examples, just like there are SOME people in Europe who are aware of things like Kent State and the Watt riots, and John Wayne Gacy and things like that. Sure, no offense taken whatsoever... I've just found it a bit odd that the photos, for whatever reason, didn't seem to accompany the stories on the trip across the Atlantic... |
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Posted: 3/15/2012 9:07:50 PM EDT
[#44]
U S soldier at C P Charlie during the Panzer Confrontation October 27, 1961.
Colonel Winder the on scene commander of U S 6th Inf and 40th Armor troops during the panzerconfrontation/ 
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Posted: 3/15/2012 9:27:26 PM EDT
[#45]
 
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Posted: 3/15/2012 10:38:15 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:..........
Guernica: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/74/PicassoGuernica.jpg .................. Ahhh, Guernica! It is another one of those catches for unless one is either a student of art, a historian, or an intelligence officer, they are not likely to know it except as a picture by Picasso. For the benefit of our studio audience at home...................... This is a picture of a town during the Spanish Civil War. It was bombed by the Germans and the Italians and it was the bombing of civilians. It was not a military target. The world became aware of the event, of the civil war, primarily through the painting which was on a world tour. (not a bad way to get a message out considering other venues may be censored). Moving on, 
__________________________________________________________________________________ ("Are you a student of history, Sir?"––Spock, (w,stte), ST:TOS, "Requiem for Methuselah") |
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Posted: 3/15/2012 10:49:28 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
But, but, but... AMURICA! Everything else is fur fagets!!!!11 Jesus guy. Get a grip. Here I thought you were a stand-up person, not a suck-up. |
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Posted: 3/15/2012 10:50:22 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
U S soldier at C P Charlie during the Panzer Confrontation October 27, 1961. http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/threefeathers/Berlin/BerlinOctober1961.jpg Colonel Winder the on scene commander of U S 6th Inf and 40th Armor troops during the panzerconfrontation/ http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/threefeathers/Berlin/ColonelWinderatCPCharliein1961.jpg 
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Posted: 3/16/2012 3:18:48 AM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 3/16/2012 3:41:32 AM EDT
[#50]
One of my favorite pictures ever
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