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6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 4/3/2001 7:28:06 AM EDT
Boy I am in awe to be in the presense of so many Keyboard heros. We have guys that with zero knowedgle of the mission or capablites of the AC in question, zero knowledge of the AC's crew or proceedures to prevent data or equipment being captured, yet who somehow just KNOW that sensitive information and hardware will fall into "enemy" hands. Here in this very forum we have guys with the 'nads to have crashed a high performace aircraft into the ocean rather than fly it to a safe landing saving the lives of your crew. Those f-n wimps!!! We have guys with zero combat experience (and likely no military experience) chomping at the bit to go to war against probably the largest standing army on the planet, at a time when our own military is at low ebb after 8 years of neglect and outright abuse. I must say I am humbled in you heros presence.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 7:36:08 AM EDT
all you have to due is eat several candy bars & drink a big gulp while watching some Rocky & Rambo movies and you can be a hero too[}:D]
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 7:41:43 AM EDT
I`m ready, but alas I am too old and lame. Yes, I agree with you but I think this is a sounding board for people`s fantasies and desires. The folks here are patriotic and are voicing what they feel. I only hope the rest of America will back our boys like the folks here.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 7:45:35 AM EDT
Hipower is sub-MOA. I'm pissed at China too, but get a grip - we are NOT in a position to fight them right now. And far be it from me to second-guess the airmen aboard that plane. I'm pretty sure I was sitin' at home, safe and warm, while they were just hoping to make it back to terra firma at something other than a 90 degree angle.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 7:47:59 AM EDT
I"M SO READY FOR WAR! CAN'T WAIT!!! oh, uh now? Well, I got a house, a wife and some dogs. Uh, could you come back next week, maybe? Maybe I'll just buy some war bonds? What? No war bonds yet? WELL I'VE GOT MY HARD EARNED MONEY READY TO BUY SOME WAR BONDS. So you just let me know when you need the money by! Thanks. I have to go now and submit soem phony recall data so my unit can't find me!
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 7:57:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 7:57:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2001 7:58:02 AM EDT by Hipower]
I didn't intend to inpinge anyones Patriotism, but that airplane is in no way worth an American life. Do you think they'll get more info from that AC or from the missing info from Los Alamos? Do you think that AC contains more sensitive info than was bought and paid for by campain contributions from the Chinese for the past administration? People need to think, before they vote to risk other peoples lives while they sit safe at home. IMHO, Taiwan is a pretty weak reason to go to war with China. A dented airplane sure is hell isn't worth it.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 8:03:28 AM EDT
It would have been pretty tough to save the lives of 24 crew members in open ocean and there would have been the risk of gettin the equipment intact had they ditched the crew did good they bought the time necessary to destroy the equipment and landed in "enemy" territory risking far more than in the open ocean where they might have been rescued...so they offered themselves up to buy the time needed to destroy the equipment...so far the chinese have not moved the aircraft under cover so we can view it via sattelite had they done that - that would have been viewd as an escalation I imagine the chinese are going through the remants of the aircraft but dont think they got too much and it was toast after our guys and gals got through with it...they are heros hope everyone sees that
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 8:04:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 8:08:22 AM EDT
I'm sure there are MANY OTHER ways in which the US can inflict DAMAGE on China w/out going to WAR.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 8:08:32 AM EDT
Man, I hope not. War with a bilion wee little chinamen with AK's would suck ass. We would have to get pre-emptive, and nuke thier pop. centers, and like all of ther industry b4 we could even THINK of a ground war with the China.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 8:13:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By McUZI: Man, I hope not. War with a bilion wee little chinamen with AK's would suck ass. We would have to get pre-emptive, and nuke thier pop. centers, and like all of ther industry b4 we could even THINK of a ground war with the China.
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no nukes, one must use chemical / Bio weapons. no need to ruin the realestate
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 8:15:11 AM EDT
Good point...
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 8:39:23 AM EDT
hehe, you guys sound like you think the chinese will invade the US. Won't happen.........how do you think they will get here.........by boat? By plane? Fat chance. I say send a cruise missle in and take out the plane. Fuk them slant eyed commies.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 8:56:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RAVYN: hehe, you guys sound like you think the chinese will invade the US. Won't happen.........how do you think they will get here.........by boat? By plane? Fat chance. I say send a cruise missle in and take out the plane. Fuk them slant eyed commies.
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how will they get here? how will they get here? there's over a billion of them,their going to form a human bridge across the pacific. locking feet to shoulders so the red army can march over them right into cali.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 10:02:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2001 10:05:14 AM EDT by HANGFIRE]
Originally Posted By Hipower: I didn't intend to inpinge anyones Patriotism, but that airplane is in no way worth an American life.
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"NEVER GIVE UP THE SHIP";"I HAVE JUST BEGUN TO FIGHT" The Plane is loaded with our most advanced technology and under no circumstances should the Pilot and/or Co-Pilot have surrendered the plane and its crew to the enemy. Unless this is a covert operation the Pilot and Co-Pilot have disgraced themselves and their country and compromised the National Security of the United States of America. If and or when they are released they should be court martialed. Your posts on this matter expose your lack of knowledge of what "DUTY HONOR COUNTRY" means and diminishs the lives sacrificed in service to this country. Why don't you go to the nearest NATIONAL CEMETARY and explain to those there that a plane is not worth lives of the air crew.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 10:05:12 AM EDT
i'd rather be a jukebox hero....
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 10:09:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HANGFIRE:
Originally Posted By Hipower: I didn't intend to inpinge anyones Patriotism, but that airplane is in no way worth an American life. "NEVER GIVE UP THE SHIP";"I HAVE JUST BEGUN TO FIGHT" The Plane is loaded with our most advanced technology and under no circumstances should the Pilot and/or Co-Pilot have surrendered the plane and its crew to the enemy. Unless this is a covert operation the Pilot and Co-Pilot have disgraced themselves and their country and compromised the National Security of the United States of America. If and or when they are released they should be court martialed. Your posts on this matter expose your lack of knowledge of what "DUTY HONOR COUNTRY" means and diminishs the lives sacrificed in service to this country. Why don't you go to the nearest NATIONAL CEMETARY and explain to those there that a plane is not worth lives of the air crew. Do you think they'll get more info from that AC or from the missing info from Los Alamos? Do you think that AC contains more sensitive info than was bought and paid for by campain contributions from the Chinese for the past administration? People need to think, before they vote to risk other peoples lives while they sit safe at home. IMHO, Taiwan is a pretty weak reason to go to war with China. A dented airplane sure is hell isn't worth it.
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Unless I missed something they did no such thing. When exactly did the US and China enter a state of war? Your comments show a complete ignorace of world affairs. You remind me of the CIA guy from MASH. "I'm going to get to the bottom of this and I am authorized to kill myself to do it." WE ARE NOT AT WAR WITH CHINA. PS I'll thank you not to lecture me on sacrifice or service to this county. I have served and my father sacrificed.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 10:21:18 AM EDT
we are not at war in a guns & bombs way. but we are still at war none the less. what was it that the japanese said about business as a form of war? It's the cold war but this time russia's not involved
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 11:23:17 AM EDT
crap,crap, and crap---excuse me a moment but would you guys use the internet for something beside porn.... Congressional earmarks for China will involve grants by the U. S. Department of State to non-governmental organizations (NGOs), which may include the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) and the International Republican Institute (IRI), among others. In August 1999, the United States provided $500,000 of USAID emergency funds to aid in relief efforts following major flooding along the Yangtze River. Funding was provided in response to an appeal by the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies. The World Bank and Asian Development Bank (ADB) have been large and growing sources of loans for China. In 1985, the World Bank and ADB agreed to lend China $1.1 billion. Ten years later, the annual total for their loan commitments to China had quadrupled, to $4.3 billion in both 1995 and 1996. The chinese government is only an enemy by way of our government propping them up. If we stopped payments and shipments of wheat, within a week the government would fall. Remember the USSR....we propped them up for forty years. Don't believe the hype..look it up.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 11:37:54 AM EDT
Hound how can you let them fall. without them as our new cold war enemy, how can the government justify spending billions on research & development of weapons & technology. you see in this modern day & age, big business & political personal need these global conflicts. it keeps them in power / wealthy and the rest general public poor, dumb & lost.for all thier chest beating about peoples right, freedoms ect it's just one big smoke screen.the only thing that's anything is the rich getting richer.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 11:38:57 AM EDT
There is no limit to man's greed.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 11:50:58 AM EDT
Excellent NYshooter my point exactly----Look it's the Big bad wolf and we will protect you.. Just give us half of everything you earn and you will not need the guns because will protect you and you do not need to think because we will tell you what to worry about......
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 12:58:39 PM EDT
Not life and death, but nobody complains about the Armchair Athletes at SuperBowl time, or during the World Series. Or the Armchair Engineers that bitch about the Stoner Gas System.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 2:02:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2001 2:03:43 PM EDT by M4]
Originally Posted By satcong: I'm sure there are MANY OTHER ways in which the US can inflict DAMAGE on China w/out going to WAR.
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Yeah, like not giving them total access to our nuclear secrets, by not kissing their asses every time trade discussions pop up, by severing all trade agreements, by selling the Taiwanese ANYTHING they need, by removing our diplomats and expelling theirs, by letting them know, in NO uncertain terms that if we don't have our men and plane returned IMMEDIATELY we will construct a foreign policy that puts China back in to the stone age by any means necessary. [img]www.bestanimations.com/Military/Explosions/Explode-02.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 2:12:13 PM EDT
people are so willing to nuke the world, i love it. i'll like you all to meet my sisters ANARCHY & CHAOS. say hello ladies[}:D]
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 2:16:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HANGFIRE:
Originally Posted By Hipower: I didn't intend to inpinge anyones Patriotism, but that airplane is in no way worth an American life.
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"NEVER GIVE UP THE SHIP";"I HAVE JUST BEGUN TO FIGHT" The Plane is loaded with our most advanced technology and under no circumstances should the Pilot and/or Co-Pilot have surrendered the plane and its crew to the enemy. Unless this is a covert operation the Pilot and Co-Pilot have disgraced themselves and their country and compromised the National Security of the United States of America. If and or when they are released they should be court martialed. Your posts on this matter expose your lack of knowledge of what "DUTY HONOR COUNTRY" means and diminishs the lives sacrificed in service to this country. Why don't you go to the nearest NATIONAL CEMETARY and explain to those there that a plane is not worth lives of the air crew.
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This is outstanding! I mean really, you must be a captain of industry, a real mover and a shaker within your community, a member of the f*cking brain trust! Are you serious? While we are on the subject, I have to assume that over the years every spy that has given it up for a foreign country has done far more damage than the lose of this plane. If we want to get more serious about security - start by whacking the information punks. Seriously though, that was beautiful hangfire, just f*ckin' beautiful!
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 2:24:42 PM EDT
"people are so willing to nuke the world, i love it. i'll like you all to meet my sisters ANARCHY & CHAOS. say hello ladies" Yep. Anyone else remember the movie, A Boy And His Dog? Always wondered what living underground would be like.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 2:27:54 PM EDT
I don't want to nuke China, but I sure would love to revoke their Most Favored Nation status. America's biggest fault is their willingness to overlook everything for the promise of a billion+ consumers. Then again that may be the way to defeat them, turn them all into freaking capitalists. Keep them concentrated on getting more cash.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 3:06:38 PM EDT
I'm already fighting back. I'm boycotting both Chinese restaurants in our town.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 3:16:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Don R: I'm already fighting back. I'm boycotting both Chinese restaurants in our town.
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be prepared to adopt alot of cats. meow meow
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 3:19:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RAVYN: hehe, Fuk them slant eyed commies.
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I know more than a few good Americans that don't have round eyes and they sure as hell are not commies.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 3:41:49 PM EDT
I hope Jet Li and the Woo Dan clan aint leading their army
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 3:47:38 PM EDT
Re: "We are not at war with China" Let us say that the We is the WE in WE THE PEOPLE. WE THE PEOPLE have a world of enemies arrayed against us. Some even call themselves Americans and are elected members of Congress; or owners of large American Corporations. You see there handiwork every day. Restriction of this ammendment or that ammendment. They are out to destroy WE THE PEOPLE. China is a country that wants WE THE PEOPLE dead, wiped off the face of the earth. They are buying American Presidents and outher elected officals. Stealing weapons systems. These are the actions of an enemy. Wake up Neville Hipower!
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 7:02:59 PM EDT
Anyone got a shovel? We don't know how much "self-destruction" was accomplished during the 20 minute flight to the island so let's hold off on the open-gate argument. But, even if some of our equipment fell into their hands, you (yes you HANGFIRE) are going to summarily take the pilot to task on that call? It's just that simple? Wow, you must sleep like a baby at night. Maybe he figured that since our former commander-in-chief gave the Chinese sophisticated targeting hardware for their missiles (aimed at us), a few TS listening devices was no big deal; or at least not worth sacrificing over twenty of his best friends. Maybe they destroyed most of the stuff- we don't know yet. I bet those guys are glad someone like you was not controlling the yoke that night. I know I am. Why not wait for all the facts to come out before you break out the "Book of Armaments" and lob the Holy Hangranade at the AC.
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 7:07:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NYshooter: people are so willing to nuke the world, i love it. i'll like you all to meet my sisters ANARCHY & CHAOS. say hello ladies[}:D]
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I knew it Anarchy and Chaos do live in New York. That explains Senator Clinton[:D]
Link Posted: 4/3/2001 9:44:58 PM EDT
By the way guys, this isn't the first time a P-3 has been in enemy hands. A buddy of mine was on the plane when it happened. That plane has a lot of neat high-tech stuff on it...I got a tour a few years back. The radar on it is pretty impressive. It can see a beer can floating on the water at an impressive distance...and it also has over-the-horizon capability. Nothing the Chinese don't already probably know, but I'm sure they are interested in any refinements...hence the possible explanation for the missing radome. Since these guys operate in this environment regularly, I'm sure they had already considered their options long ago. Personally, I would have attempted to fly the plane with 3 engines(depending on structural damage) to a friendlier place. But, as a pilot and an instructor, I have learned that second-guessing a crew that successfully put a damaged airplane on the ground, is idiocy. My .02.
Link Posted: 4/4/2001 1:31:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Anarki: I have learned that second-guessing a crew that successfully put a damaged airplane on the ground, is idiocy. My .02.
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Well said.
Link Posted: 4/4/2001 4:42:42 AM EDT
Hangfire [b]I know more than a few good Americans that don't have round eyes and they sure as hell are not commies[/b] me too........I take it your trying to make a point about something you think you read into my comments...........
Link Posted: 4/4/2001 6:24:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HANGFIRE: Wake up Neville Hipower!
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Neville Hipower! That's funny! However, I have never advocated giving the Chinese ANYTHING as an appeasement as Chamberlain did Czechoslovakia to Hitler.
Link Posted: 4/4/2001 9:23:34 AM EDT
CBS reported this a.m that practically all sensitive equipment was destroyed by the AC. HANGFIRE, still want to impugn the patriotism of the pilot and co-pilot for not ditching? I know it's awfully cozy behind that computer screen and you seem to have cornered the market on patriotic conduct by our military, however, you might want to think next time before you jump all over one of our own. On a serious note, I think it would be a mistake for us to apologize for their interceptor careening into our P-3 while flying over international waters on an OVERT suveillance mission.
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