What has more stopping power.....45acp or .40s&w? Best "hiking" gun? *poll* - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What has more stopping power.....45acp or .40s&w? Best "hiking" gun? *poll* (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 3/12/2012 4:07:12 AM EDT

[#1]

How about a nice, old skool, .44 magnum revolver? Or even a nice, old skool, 454 Casull revolver or a nice stout .45 Long Colt out of a Ruger Blackhawk?

And by the way, I really like that suggestion for a .375!

Posted: 3/12/2012 4:09:09 AM EDT

[#2]

I chose the 40 over 45, loaded with Doubletap's WFNGC hard cast lead:
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_26&products_id=210

Posted: 3/12/2012 4:10:39 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
What kind of 4 legged critters are you worried about?

Aggressive black bears, possible hogs, maybe the odd mountain lion.

then none of the above, unless you go with a 45 super/ 460 rowland

Posted: 3/12/2012 4:34:36 AM EDT

[#4]

Black bears in Missouri?

Posted: 3/12/2012 4:38:11 AM EDT

[#5]

4500 posts and 7 years on the site and you start a caliber fight thread?

Posted: 3/12/2012 4:49:32 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Here are the numbers. Depending on what the mag capacity is . multiply ft.lbs. energy by # of rounds = total ft.lbs. of energy .

Multiplying the muzzle energy of each cartridge by the number of shots in a single magazine is a novel idea.
Is it based on the idea that energy delivered is cumulative?

Posted: 3/12/2012 5:03:02 AM EDT

[#7]

.45 its good enough to stop a charging grizzly
ANCHORAGE, Alaska – A backpacker shot and killed a grizzly bear with
his handgun in Alaska's Denali National Park, officials said.

A man and woman reported that they were hiking Friday evening when the
bear emerged from trailside brush and charged the woman, park
spokeswoman Kris Fister said in a statement.

The man fired nine rounds from his .45 caliber, semiautomatic pistol at
the animal, which then stopped and walked into the brush.

The two reported the shooting to rangers, who restricted access to the
Igloo Canyon area for fear that the bear was wounded and dangerous.

On Saturday, rangers found the dead bear about 100 feet from the shooting site.

Park officials are determining the justification for the shooting. It's legal to carry firearms in that area of the park but illegal to discharge them.

Rangers said it was the first known instance of a grizzly bear being
shot by a visitor in the wilderness portion of Denali, formerly called
Mount McKinley National Park.

Posted: 3/12/2012 5:29:08 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Black bears in Missouri?

I'm going to be hiking in southern Arkansas.

Posted: 3/12/2012 9:21:31 AM EDT

[#9]

Just having some fun with the numbers . more=more
Seriously, whatever you are comfortable with & shoot well is the caliber for you.
Shot placement is the key.

Posted: 3/12/2012 10:02:35 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
1. You're dumb if you think you're 45 or 40 is gonna protect you from a bear while hiking.

2. You're dumb if you think any firearm short of a .500 or bazooka is gonna protect you from a bear while hiking.

3. Want some real advice? Drop the macho horseshit and get some bear spray. UDAP preferably. It'll work on anything that comes near you and be 10000000% more effective. Just be sure to carry it on you like you would a gun.

you know thousends of people hunt bear every year with handguns right?
a 230gr ranger T from a 1911a1 WILL take down a black bear.

Posted: 3/12/2012 10:08:01 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
For bear , get the bear spray. It works on everything.
But for the handgun.
Here are the numbers. Depending on what the mag capacity is . multiply ft.lbs. energy by # of rounds = total ft.lbs. of energy .
.40 180gr. jhp 950 fps. 361 ft.lbs. x 16 rnds = 5776 total ft.lbs.
.45 230 gr. jhp 839 fps. 360 ft.lbs. x 11 rnds = 3960 ft.lbs. x 9 rnds (1911) =3240 ft.lbs.
So between .40 & .45 i say .40 . More shots = more knock down .
Now for all you 9mm bashers . 9mm cor-bon 115gr.+p jhp 1350 fps. 454 ft.lbs. x 18 rnds. =8172 total ft.lbs .
Practice ammo very inexpensive .IMO 9mm winner winner chicken dinner !

I once put 5 rounds of 9 mm into a racoon at about 10 yards and it didnt kill it

that said...IF you run into an attacking bear you most likely wont be able to empty a mag. and if you HAD enough time to empty the mag
then you have enough time to take a well aimed shot at its nose. in which case a .22lr would also prolly do the trick.

Posted: 3/12/2012 11:22:02 AM EDT

[#12]

I don't know what kind of "bears" you are talking about but since you are in Missouri I'm going to guess black bears. Really, any handgun will work on blacks. They aren't exactly tough to kill. Lions are also incredibly thin-skinned, if you will. Hogs would be the worst of your worries with a handgun. They can be pretty freaking tough critters. The caliber choice is not nearly as important as ammo choice. You really need to shoot a hard cast lead bullet for penetration, especially on hogs. Personal defense loads will leave you in a bad situation on anything but lions.

If you are spending any time where there are real bears a handgun is an incredibly piss-poor idea. UDAP is much better. I know it isn't as Tier One as a handgun but a handgun for defense against grizzlies is just plain stupid.

Posted: 3/12/2012 11:37:08 AM EDT

[#13]

Between only those two options, I would choose the XD in .40 mainly for capacity. However, I would choose the one which I shot better overall.

A 180gr truncated load would provide maximum penetration (20+ inches in ballistics gel). Along with an equal weight quality defense load from the oracle list would provide the best of both worlds.

Just an FYI, interesting to see what Kyle Defoor endorses.

(Link left cold)
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=97663

Posted: 3/12/2012 11:47:15 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

.45 ACP, hands down. More bullet mass and more powder capacity. .40 doesn't have enough powder space to give it the "oomph" it needs, which is why everyone is going with light bullets to up the velocity.

FWIW, the FBI is still using 180gr, and the particular load they're using has a velocity of over 1000fps.

Posted: 3/12/2012 12:22:31 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
larger cross section + lower velocity = less penetration.

.45 is a terrible round.

You don't understand sectional density, do you?

To answer the OP:
Both rounds are poor stoppers of men, much less bears.

There is no such thing as "knock down power" especially in handguns.

There is not much differnce between the rounds when it comes to stopping power. Shoot the one you shoot better.

+1 on bear spray as well as being educated about the animal.

Posted: 3/12/2012 12:28:07 PM EDT

[#16]

.40 S&W, because you can fit more rounds in an identically-sized or smaller weapon.

I voted "shot placement," though.

__________________________________________________________________
Cross-platform gun database/electronic bound book (v1.3.2) (and the original thread).
«nolite confidere in principibus, in filiis hominum quibus non est salus»

Posted: 3/13/2012 6:47:49 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
larger cross section + lower velocity = less penetration.

.45 is a terrible round.

You don't understand sectional density, do you?

To answer the OP:
Both rounds are poor stoppers of men, much less bears.

There is no such thing as "knock down power" especially in handguns.

There is not much differnce between the rounds when it comes to stopping power. Shoot the one you shoot better.

+1 on bear spray as well as being educated about the animal.

I guess it just depends on what you define as "poor". Sure, a rifle is always a better "stopper of men", but to say that a .40 and .45 are booth "poor stoppers of men" seems a little harsh. Don't tell that to the people who carry .380 and 9mm on a daily basis.....

Posted: 3/13/2012 7:27:34 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
1. You're dumb if you think you're 45 or 40 is gonna protect you from a bear while hiking.

2. You're dumb if you think any firearm short of a .500 or bazooka is gonna protect you from a bear while hiking.

3. Want some real advice? Drop the macho horseshit and get some bear spray. UDAP preferably. It'll work on anything that comes near you and be 10000000% more effective. Just be sure to carry it on you like you would a gun.

you know thousends of people hunt bear every year with handguns right?
a 230gr ranger T from a 1911a1 WILL take down a black bear.

Hunting something is a liitttle different from stopping a charge RFN.

Also, random: to paraphrase those who live in "Big bear country": "There's nothing glock makes that's really suitable for big bear defense, sorry."

Posted: 3/13/2012 10:26:30 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Not one bit if difference between the two. Carry which you shoot best.

I reload, and have for decades. I also have a chronograph. I used to have a fullsize, all-steel CZ-75 in .40 S&W. I really wanted to find a good use for the .40, because I can find brass for free. However, I ran into pressure signs before I could even get a 180 grain bullet to 1000 fps. I put a heavy recoil spring in it, but no dice. I wanted to get a 200 grain bullet to 1000 fps, but that is totally out of the question. With a 165 grain bullet you can top 1000 fps, but you can almost do that with a 9mm.

I can get a 260 grain bullet to 1000 fps from a 5-inch 1911 with a 22 lb recoil spring in it, with no adverse pressure signs. There are even factory loads that do that.

For protection from dangerous animals with an autoloading pistol, I will take .45 ACP hands down. .40 S&W is closer to 9mm than to .45, in terms of available power.

Posted: 3/13/2012 10:40:46 PM EDT

[#20]

A few years ago a guy killed a brown bear with a .45.

However, which ever round you can fire the most rapidly and hit your target is what you carry.

Or take a hippy that is slower than you. He'll try to hug the bear anyways.

Posted: 3/13/2012 10:51:59 PM EDT

[#21]

.40

I'd be more worried about the 2 legged predators out there, and the .40 gives you a higher mag capacity. And as a few others have said bear spray for the possible bear that you may/may not cross. .44 mag or .500 revolver would be best for a woods gun, but with the 2 ooptions you have given us I say ,40

Posted: 3/13/2012 11:06:42 PM EDT

[#22]

Glock 20 if it was listed, but in this case I would go with the XD40 for the weight and capacity.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - What has more stopping power.....45acp or .40s&w? Best "hiking" gun? *poll* (Page 2 of 2)

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