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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:00:11 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
How about the 20mm? If I am not mistaken that is the next larger commonly used round Anyone seen a human hit by one of those? If a 50 cal can blow limbs off from a miss, why does the .mil put small explosives in 30mm and 25mm rounds? Hell, a miss with one of those should have a bigger kill radius than the explosive  .
Been shot at by W85s and Type 77 machineguns.....they sounded scary and put deep holes in shit but didn't rip any of my limbs off as far as I know. |
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:01:07 PM EDT
[#2]
As far as the next step up the Taliban also uses 14.5mm anti tank rifles from WW2 and anti aircraft MGs...still no limbs lost.
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:03:37 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: As far as the next step up the Taliban also uses 14.5mm anti tank rifles from WW2 and anti aircraft MGs...still no limbs lost. I've never seen an American hit with a large caliber bullet. They've got a shitload of AKs and it was hard enough knowing someone who's been hit by an AK round, let alone getting hit by a round from a Duska that the enemy has even fewer inventories of. |
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:03:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Quoted:
How about the 20mm? If I am not mistaken that is the next larger commonly used round Anyone seen a human hit by one of those? I've seen people that were hit by the Apache's 30mm. Well. I wouldn't really call them 'people' anymore. I've watched some of those videos of the gun runs and wondered if the BG's were usually killed by fragments or if the shell's fuse would actually detonate in soft tissue? Also saw some assorted body parts separate from the trunk! |
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:05:03 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
My army recruiter was a former sniper. He said that a .50cal pushes so much air that a near miss can still cause damage. "It will tear an arm off if it just misses" Not sure if its true, but I did see pictures of him in Iraq with a barret, and it was confirmed he was a sniper. Hummmm....suuuuure, I bet your recruiter was a sniper The shit people come up with. |
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:05:09 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
My army recruiter was a former sniper. He said that a .50cal pushes so much air that a near miss can still cause damage. "It will tear an arm off if it just misses" Not sure if its true, but I did see pictures of him in Iraq with a barret, and it was confirmed he was a sniper. No, 50 is how much bigger than .45? It's just a large grain round hitting something. When the round hits it just blows through you. If it hits a joint like a shoulder, knee o what ever, yeah it will sever it, but it won't vaporize you as some might think. Granted its traveling very fast and has a shit load of energy when it impacts but you ain't gonna turn to a pink mist I it hits you. |
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:05:12 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Quoted: How about the 20mm? If I am not mistaken that is the next larger commonly used round Anyone seen a human hit by one of those? I've seen people that were hit by the Apache's 30mm. Well. I wouldn't really call them 'people' anymore. There's pics out there of the results of 23mm (iirc) from the recent fun in Libya. Safe to say that death was instantaneous. |
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:05:27 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
You can only use a .50 against equipment not personnel because of the geneva convention, so just aim at their belt buckle. 
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:05:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Quoted:
How about the 20mm? If I am not mistaken that is the next larger commonly used round Anyone seen a human hit by one of those? Much different, 20mm is Large enough to pack explosives in it. (I know some .50 have incendiaries) 20,000 ft/lb of energy that will explode in you. Not pass you and keep on trucking. Flying limbs, red mist galore. Even 30mm can fail to be that impressive. |
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:06:20 PM EDT
[#10]
http://www.apacheclips.com/media/25833/GRAPHIC_INSURGENTS_HEAD_BLOWN_AWAY_FALLUJA/
warning guy is big time dead he has a headache our snipers doing what they do best with a 50 http://www.apacheclips.com/search/50%20CAL/&p=6 |
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:07:08 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My army recruiter was a former sniper. He said that a .50cal pushes so much air that a near miss can still cause damage. "It will tear an arm off if it just misses" Not sure if its true, but I did see pictures of him in Iraq with a barret, and it was confirmed he was a sniper. Hummmm....suuuuure, I bet your recruiter was a sniper The shit people come up with. That's a prevalent myth in the military. I think ARFCOM is a better source of information on weapon systems and their capabilites than some areas of the military.  |
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:07:14 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Quoted: There's an Afghanistan video where all you see is a cloud of dust and a human arm and shoulder flying through the air tumbling end over end. GRAPHIC (of honey badgers getting blown away) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5600920080174465066 I knew what it was going to be before I even clicked  http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Marmot-edit1.jpg/800px-Marmot-edit1.jpg I got PUNKED! for the 87th time!! |
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:07:31 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
How about the 20mm? If I am not mistaken that is the next larger commonly used round Anyone seen a human hit by one of those? Not US / NATO 20mm, but I've seen some pictures of the results from USAAC bomber crews being hit by 20mm MG151/20s from Bf-109s and Fw-190s. Not pretty. HE shells detonating inside human bodies create very gruesome results. |
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:08:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
You can only use a .50 against equipment not personnel because of the geneva convention, so just aim at their belt buckle.
Ummm........ |
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:11:34 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
How about the 20mm? If I am not mistaken that is the next larger commonly used round Anyone seen a human hit by one of those? Not US / NATO 20mm, but I've seen some pictures of the results from USAAC bomber crews being hit by 20mm MG151/20s from Bf-109s and Fw-190s. Not pretty. HE shells detonating inside human bodies create very gruesome results. There were pics of an SUV that was on a gunnery range for some reason, and an F-16 pilot lit into it thinking it was his target, and hit it with 6 or 7 of his training rounds. It did a good amount of damage. Not a human, of course, but it was neat to see at least. 
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:12:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Ok, so I have been wondering this for a while. When I was in basic (many moons ago) .50's were prohibited against soft targets. They were for equipment only (it was explained to me that helmets and canteens were also equipment, but that was a little shady). I was led to believe that .50's were for hard target intradiction only. Now I see all these snipers talking on TV about human targets with one. Did something change, or was I misled?
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:14:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Was there not a hollow head, just scalp and face on the ground supposedly from a 50, floating around years ago? |
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:14:28 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Ok, so I have been wondering this for a while. When I was in basic (many moons ago) .50's were prohibited against soft targets. They were for equipment only (it was explained to me that helmets and canteens were also equipment, but that was a little shady). I was led to believe that .50's were for hard target intradiction only. Now I see all these snipers talking on TV about human targets with one. Did something change, or was I misled? You were mislead. It's never been against any written regulation, that was just a well supported and passed on myth. |
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:17:49 PM EDT
[#19]
there were pictures around of the French Foreign Legion in Algeria that was running a checkpoint with M2 .50s (I wish I could find them)
Some Africans attacked the checkpoint and the FFL returned fire with the 50s, there were like 10 bodies and all of their bodies looked horribly mangled by the bullet impacts almost kinda like chewed bumblegum. If the .50 BMG bullet yaws; it will created a really gruesome scene. Othertimes it can go right through and look no worse than any other bullet wound. |
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:20:31 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ok, so I have been wondering this for a while. When I was in basic (many moons ago) .50's were prohibited against soft targets. They were for equipment only (it was explained to me that helmets and canteens were also equipment, but that was a little shady). I was led to believe that .50's were for hard target intradiction only. Now I see all these snipers talking on TV about human targets with one. Did something change, or was I misled? You were mislead. It's never been against any written regulation, that was just a well supported and passed on myth. *GASP* A Drill Instructor lied to me? Surely not. Next you will tell me recuiters lie too. |
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:21:10 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
As far as the next step up the Taliban also uses 14.5mm anti tank rifles from WW2 and anti aircraft MGs...still no limbs lost. I've never seen an American hit with a large caliber bullet. They've got a shitload of AKs and it was hard enough knowing someone who's been hit by an AK round, let alone getting hit by a round from a Duska that the enemy has even fewer inventories of. None of our guys got hit, but they shot them..and AGS-17 at us. The guys we replaced had a soldier get hit by one in their first week. He died, that's all I know. |
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:21:15 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How about the 20mm? If I am not mistaken that is the next larger commonly used round Anyone seen a human hit by one of those? Not US / NATO 20mm, but I've seen some pictures of the results from USAAC bomber crews being hit by 20mm MG151/20s from Bf-109s and Fw-190s. Not pretty. HE shells detonating inside human bodies create very gruesome results. There were pics of an SUV that was on a gunnery range for some reason, and an F-16 pilot lit into it thinking it was his target, and hit it with 6 or 7 of his training rounds. It did a good amount of damage. Not a human, of course, but it was neat to see at least. http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Spin_Drift/cars/SUVF16.jpg The 20x102mm they use in the M61 Vulcan has a much smaller projectile and HE load than the MG151/20 of WWII vintage did. I'm trying to find exact projectile and explosive filler weights again, haven't had those references out since I worked on IL-2 Sturmovik. I also want to say that the likely ammo loading for that incident with the truck was solid-projectile training rounds, rather than HE or "real" rounds. So multiply that picture by... oh, about five. Remember, the MG151/15 and MG151/20 were designed and loaded to bring down four-engine bombers like the B-17 and Russian TB-3 or Pe-8. |
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:22:38 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
there were pictures around of the French Foreign Legion in Algeria that was running a checkpoint with M2 .50s (I wish I could find them) Some Africans attacked the checkpoint and the FFL returned fire with the 50s, there were like 10 bodies and all of their bodies looked horribly mangled by the bullet impacts almost kinda like chewed bumblegum. If the .50 BMG bullet yaws; it will created a really gruesome scene. Othertimes it can go right through and look no worse than any other bullet wound. Yep, that's my belief as well. We can draw the conclusion that there are no real guarantees when it comes to engaging humans with projectiles under cannon sized. Even the smaller cannons there exists some manner of unreliability. Some projectiles will have a higher incidence of causing catastrophic injuries, but there aren't any death rays yet. Yet. 
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:24:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ok, so I have been wondering this for a while. When I was in basic (many moons ago) .50's were prohibited against soft targets. They were for equipment only (it was explained to me that helmets and canteens were also equipment, but that was a little shady). I was led to believe that .50's were for hard target intradiction only. Now I see all these snipers talking on TV about human targets with one. Did something change, or was I misled? You were mislead. It's never been against any written regulation, that was just a well supported and passed on myth. *GASP* A Drill Instructor lied to me? Surely not. Next you will tell me recuiters lie too. I don't think you can call it a lie. He was probably told it as well and believed it. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How about the 20mm? If I am not mistaken that is the next larger commonly used round Anyone seen a human hit by one of those? Not US / NATO 20mm, but I've seen some pictures of the results from USAAC bomber crews being hit by 20mm MG151/20s from Bf-109s and Fw-190s. Not pretty. HE shells detonating inside human bodies create very gruesome results. There were pics of an SUV that was on a gunnery range for some reason, and an F-16 pilot lit into it thinking it was his target, and hit it with 6 or 7 of his training rounds. It did a good amount of damage. Not a human, of course, but it was neat to see at least. http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Spin_Drift/cars/SUVF16.jpg The 20x102mm they use in the M61 Vulcan has a much smaller projectile and HE load than the MG151/20 of WWII vintage did. I'm trying to find exact projectile and explosive filler weights again, haven't had those references out since I worked on IL-2 Sturmovik. I also want to say that the likely ammo loading for that incident with the truck was solid-projectile training rounds, rather than HE or "real" rounds. So multiply that picture by... oh, about five. Remember, the MG151/15 and MG151/20 were designed and loaded to bring down four-engine bombers like the B-17 and Russian TB-3 or Pe-8. That's my thoughts as well. |
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:24:57 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
One of my friends joined the TN NG and told me about his first kill in Iraq. He was on a Ma Deuce and shot at an insurgent a hundred yards away or so. He said the first burst missed on one side. The second burst missed on the other side. But the third burst went right up the middle of guy. He saw arms and legs flying off in different directions. The guy was a chronic bullshitter though, but he did serve and he was there where the fighting was happening. He said to me "after killing people, I don't know how I'm ever going to be excited about deer hunting again.." Funny thing is he never did go deer hunting when he was growing up.
My dad also used to tell me that a .50 cal machine gun would cut a man in two right up the middle. Now, I trusted him. who the hell cals a m-2 a ma deuce? not when i was a soldier. We sure the hell did. |
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:25:36 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 2/23/2012 9:46:02 PM EDT
[#27]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0Fc9lvRMy0 |
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Posted: 2/24/2012 9:00:49 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think ARFCOM is a better source of information on weapon systems and their capabilites than some areas of the military.
Of course! Unless you're passing along a 2nd or 3rd hand actual military account of flying limbs! |
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Posted: 2/24/2012 9:07:45 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Saw a guy that was hit 4 times (friendly fire) with a 50 in Dec. '89. None of them were solid hits, but he walked out on his own power in Mar. I used to work with a guy back in MS who was hit by two heavy machine gun rounds in Desert Storm who fully recovered. Not sure if it was 12.7 or 14.5, but one his arm, the other his abdomen. |
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Posted: 2/24/2012 9:09:37 AM EDT
[#30]
Still have to make a hit.
If you hit, I would expect some nice wound cavity action, but I doubt that a COM hit is going to throw limbs off a guy. If you hit the shoulder or something, you might get limb separation of that one limb, but that's more because of tissue being cut and bone being shattered and acting as shrapnel. no caliber is a magic killer. You still have to make a hit, and you still need to cause either CNS function to stop, or blood loss to occur for a kill. |
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Posted: 2/24/2012 9:47:45 AM EDT
[#31]
One thing to remember is the .50 FMj is fairly pointed
Shot a frozen duck at 200 and it put a hole in it but didn't blow it apart, really surprised us. Every thought I missed it
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Posted: 2/24/2012 9:58:17 AM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 2/24/2012 10:11:52 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
A USMC Colonel I know who was in charge of a unit crossing the Diyala River had one of his marines using a .50 cal take out a sniper in a tower. He stated that the lower half of sniper's torso fell to the ground. wat 
The story to be learned from this thread is that people embellish things. |
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Posted: 2/24/2012 10:18:53 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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I have always heard that said, or "It will turn you inside out". Has anyone actually seen the effect of the 50 on a human target? Figured the bullet probably doesn't tumble much or come apart like the 5.56. Just puts a 50 cal hole right thru. I imagine the spall from a hit on a barricade could cause some serious injuries. It's not a myth. I seen an Iraqi with a basketball sized hole in his chest by a 50. Guess I served with in Iraq told me about seeing a guy cut in half at the midsection by a 50 Other members on ARF who've been in combat have said similiar things. EB Sledge said he saw an enemy soldier cut in half with a multiple hits from a BAR (30-06). In John L Plaster's book "Ultimate sniper" he recounts stories about guys being cut in half with a 50. Also it "No True Glory" by Bing West, he talks about a sniper taking a shot on a guy on a water tower. His upper body fell off the tower and his legs stayed on the catwalk. A single .50 BMG isn't going to cut a guy in half unless he gets shot multiple times across the midsection. I can't believe you would think such a thing would be credible. To me it's fucking hilarious that people in this thread think it's even possible.
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Posted: 2/24/2012 10:20:28 AM EDT
[#35]
50 cal is a impressive round.
but racking a 12 gauge pump shotgun has been known to make opponent's heads explode. |
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Posted: 2/24/2012 10:25:27 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Some sniper show on the history channel had a marine sniper that took out a group of taliturds behind a wall with a Raufoss round... he said all you saw was a red mist. I think that was SSgt Steve Reichert. A good fellow, and not one prone to exaggerate either. |
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Posted: 2/24/2012 10:32:16 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I have always heard that said, or "It will turn you inside out". Has anyone actually seen the effect of the 50 on a human target? Figured the bullet probably doesn't tumble much or come apart like the 5.56. Just puts a 50 cal hole right thru. I imagine the spall from a hit on a barricade could cause some serious injuries. It's not a myth. I seen an Iraqi with a basketball sized hole in his chest by a 50. Guess I served with in Iraq told me about seeing a guy cut in half at the midsection by a 50 Other members on ARF who've been in combat have said similiar things. EB Sledge said he saw an enemy soldier cut in half with a multiple hits from a BAR (30-06). In John L Plaster's book "Ultimate sniper" he recounts stories about guys being cut in half with a 50. Also it "No True Glory" by Bing West, he talks about a sniper taking a shot on a guy on a water tower. His upper body fell off the tower and his legs stayed on the catwalk. A single .50 BMG isn't going to cut a guy in half unless he gets shot multiple times across the midsection. I can't believe you would think such a thing would be credible. To me it's fucking hilarious that people in this thread think it's even possible.Uh, you mean people with real battlefield experience? |
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Posted: 2/24/2012 10:33:51 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
My army recruiter was a former sniper. He said that a .50cal pushes so much air that a near miss can still cause damage. "It will tear an arm off if it just misses" Not sure if its true, but I did see pictures of him in Iraq with a barret, and it was confirmed he was a sniper. I find this extremely hard to believe. 4073 |
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Posted: 2/24/2012 10:34:50 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
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There's an Afghanistan video where all you see is a cloud of dust and a human arm and shoulder flying through the air tumbling end over end. GRAPHIC http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5600920080174465066 those aren't people being shot Didn't know. Don't believe everything you 'hear' or see on the internet. 4073 |
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Posted: 2/24/2012 10:35:22 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How about the 20mm? If I am not mistaken that is the next larger commonly used round Anyone seen a human hit by one of those? Not US / NATO 20mm, but I've seen some pictures of the results from USAAC bomber crews being hit by 20mm MG151/20s from Bf-109s and Fw-190s. Not pretty. HE shells detonating inside human bodies create very gruesome results. There were pics of an SUV that was on a gunnery range for some reason, and an F-16 pilot lit into it thinking it was his target, and hit it with 6 or 7 of his training rounds. It did a good amount of damage. Not a human, of course, but it was neat to see at least. http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Spin_Drift/cars/SUVF16.jpg Holy fuck! Someone burned for that one. |
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Posted: 2/24/2012 10:36:36 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
My army recruiter was a former sniper. He said that a .50cal pushes so much air that a near miss can still cause damage. "It will tear an arm off if it just misses" Not sure if its true, but I did see pictures of him in Iraq with a barret, and it was confirmed he was a sniper. Someone has probably already addressed this, but this is total BS. There was an episode of Mythbusters where they fired a .50 cal rifle round right past (really close to) a bunch of wine glasses and such and they didn't even fall over, much less take any damage. |
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Posted: 2/24/2012 10:45:06 AM EDT
[#42]
So it seems that yawing and/or striking bone makes the difference between a clean pass through and creating a small explosion.
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Posted: 2/24/2012 10:50:01 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: So it seems that yawing and/or striking bone makes the difference between a clean pass through and creating a small explosion. That's what I've been saying. When that bullet turns, it creates a very nasty mess. But lots of people have had them just pass right through them. Other members here have seen what a .50 BMG can do when it yaws. I think it was Enigma who said he was a witness to a car being used by insurgents that got engaged by a M2. The guy in the backseat was almost split in half. |
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Posted: 2/24/2012 10:51:20 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
So it seems that yawing and/or striking bone makes the difference between a clean pass through and creating a small explosion. That's what I've been saying. When that bullet turns, it creates a very nasty mess. But lots of people have had them just pass right through them. Other members here have seen what a .50 BMG can do when it yaws. I think it was Enigma who said he was a witness to a car being used by insurgents that got engaged by a M2. The guy in the backseat was almost split in half. I know. I've been listening. 
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Posted: 2/24/2012 11:06:43 AM EDT
[#45]
Very graphic. Body parts flying, dead taliban, nsfw, not safe for home if your kids are around.
50 cal sniper rifles at work. |
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Posted: 2/24/2012 11:09:13 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Very graphic. Body parts flying, dead taliban, nsfw, not safe for home if your kids are around. 50 cal sniper rifles at work. oh for fucks sake, again?
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Posted: 2/24/2012 11:11:05 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
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Quoted:
Ok, so I have been wondering this for a while. When I was in basic (many moons ago) .50's were prohibited against soft targets. They were for equipment only (it was explained to me that helmets and canteens were also equipment, but that was a little shady). I was led to believe that .50's were for hard target intradiction only. Now I see all these snipers talking on TV about human targets with one. Did something change, or was I misled? You were mislead. It's never been against any written regulation, that was just a well supported and passed on myth. *GASP* A Drill Instructor lied to me? Surely not. Next you will tell me recuiters lie too. They didn't lie, they were just idiots. I'm always amazed by the people that assume that DI/DS billet holders are suddenly all knowledgeable. |
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Posted: 2/24/2012 11:14:44 AM EDT
[#48]
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Very graphic. Body parts flying, dead taliban, nsfw, not safe for home if your kids are around. 50 cal sniper rifles at work. oh for fucks sake, again? Doh. I just got it. I searched liveleak and thought it was a different one. |
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Posted: 2/24/2012 11:14:45 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: Quoted: Very graphic. Body parts flying, dead taliban, nsfw, not safe for home if your kids are around. 50 cal sniper rifles at work. oh for fucks sake, again? |
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Posted: 2/24/2012 11:18:30 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Very graphic. Body parts flying, dead taliban, nsfw, not safe for home if your kids are around. 50 cal sniper rifles at work.  |
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