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PatriotAr15
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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:27:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/15/2012 12:28:06 PM EST by PatriotAr15]
I have a friend who aserts, that the REAL reason it was banned... was because Dow chemical's or Dupont's (some huge chemical company), patent on Freon was about to expire. So they developed a NEW type of Freon, had it patented, and then lobbied and got a bunch of prostitutes politicians in washington to ban the soon-to-be-public-domain freon. In other words, the only reason Freon was illegalized was to protect corporate profits and interests.... thereby circumventing our Free Market system for the benefits of a few select.

How accurate is that view?
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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:31:15 PM EST
Dow and Dupont have been fucking us up for a long time.

Research hemp...
Encumbered by a swarmp of derp, we pressed on...
tc2k11
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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:32:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By bowbender7:
Dow and Dupont have been fucking us up for a long time.

Research hemp...

Ron Paul thread?



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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:32:42 PM EST
I've heard that too (duPont owned the R-12 patent, not Dow) but I've never looked up patent dates or done any other research on it.
kevinb120
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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:36:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/15/2012 12:42:40 PM EST by kevinb120]
Corporations and Congress get together, lots of free trips on Gulfstreams, you know the rest.

Why were Edison bulbs banned?
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iiibdsiil
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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:39:00 PM EST
I noticed that when my new AC system was installed, the new 410a jug had a big Dupont label on it.
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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:39:35 PM EST
It was Dupont.



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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:40:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/15/2012 12:42:58 PM EST by Sugarfree]

Originally Posted By PatriotAr15:
I have a friend who aserts, that the REAL reason it was banned... was because Dow chemical's or Dupont's (some huge chemical company), patent on Freon was about to expire. So they developed a NEW type of Freon, had it patented, and then lobbied and got a bunch of prostitutes politicians in washington to ban the soon-to-be-public-domain freon. In other words, the only reason Freon was illegalized was to protect corporate profits and interests.... thereby circumventing our Free Market system for the benefits of a few select.

How accurate is that view?


More like they took advantage of the whole CFC craze and went green. They stopped selling the old product (R-12) which drove prices up and started to market an alternative product that was more environmentally safe.

You can't even buy soap with soap in it anymore. My wife buys this Method shit that's just water. Windex changed formula. Laundry detergent is different now. Antifreeze. Gas got watered down with ethanol. Game over, man.
hourglassing
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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:41:46 PM EST
Jesus Fucking Christ.

Freon was invented in 1928. Patents last for 15 or 17 years. Freon was restricted in the 1990s.

Some people are just too stupid to be allowed to vote or drive.
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bowbender7
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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:44:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By tc2k11:
Originally Posted By bowbender7:
Dow and Dupont have been fucking us up for a long time.

Research hemp...

Ron Paul thread?


Nah, just saying.




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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:48:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/15/2012 12:50:27 PM EST by 2tom2]
Read up on the clean air act.

ETA it had to do with removing chlorine because of ozone depletion.


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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:50:48 PM EST
Ozone layer and all that jazz.
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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:51:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By hourglassing:
Jesus Fucking Christ.

Freon was invented in 1928. Patents last for 15 or 17 years. Freon was restricted in the 1990s.

Some people are just too stupid to be allowed to vote or drive.


When did they patent R134a or whatever it was?

<––has never spent more than a second or two thinking about this; has no clue as to the validity of the Op's premise.
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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:53:48 PM EST
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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:54:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By hourglassing:
Jesus Fucking Christ.

Freon was invented in 1928. Patents last for 15 or 17 years. Freon was restricted in the 1990s.

Some people are just too stupid to be allowed to vote or drive.


Close.

For applications filed on or after June 8, 1995, utility and plant patents are granted for a term which begins with the date of the grant and usually ends 20 years from the date you first applied for the patent subject to the payment of appropriate maintenance fees. Design patents last 14 years from the date you are granted the patent. No maintenance fees are required for design patents.

Note: Patents in force on June 8, 1995 and patents issued thereafter on applications filed prior to June 8, 1995 automatically have a term that is the greater of the twenty year term discussed above or seventeen years from the patent grant.


http://www.uspto.gov/inventors/patents.jsp
jmt1271
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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:55:29 PM EST
Just more of the global warming scam.
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kevinb120
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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:55:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/15/2012 12:59:03 PM EST by kevinb120]

Originally Posted By 2tom2:
Read up on the clean air act.

ETA it had to do with removing chlorine because of ozone depletion.



Yea, it and other HFC's were going to put us into the next Ice Age at the time.

Now Carbon Dioxide is the devil, the only reason cars put it out is because the EPA mandated they do.

Good thing they banned Mercury fillings and then mandated we all use CFC bulbs that contain it.
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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:56:39 PM EST
Your friend went full retard.
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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:57:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/15/2012 12:57:32 PM EST by kevinb120]

Originally Posted By jmt1271:
Just more of the global warming scam.

Actually it was the global cooling/new Ice Age predictions at the time.


Seriously.
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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:57:13 PM EST
Freon was banned along with other chloroflourocarbons.
The chlorine atoms in CFCs were thought to cause the hole in the ozone layer.
Don't really hear much about the ozone layer hole anymore.
It's all about global warming now.

Whether or not DuPont conspired with world governments for a ban?
Wouldn't surprise me honestly.
hourglassing
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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:57:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Originally Posted By hourglassing:
Jesus Fucking Christ.

Freon was invented in 1928. Patents last for 15 or 17 years. Freon was restricted in the 1990s.

Some people are just too stupid to be allowed to vote or drive.


When did they patent R134a or whatever it was?

<––has never spent more than a second or two thinking about this; has no clue as to the validity of the Op's premise.


I don't know when R134a was patented. OP's "friend's" premise was based on Freon.
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hourglassing
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Posted: 1/15/2012 12:58:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By pdxshooter:
Originally Posted By hourglassing:
Jesus Fucking Christ.

Freon was invented in 1928. Patents last for 15 or 17 years. Freon was restricted in the 1990s.

Some people are just too stupid to be allowed to vote or drive.


Close.

For applications filed on or after June 8, 1995, utility and plant patents are granted for a term which begins with the date of the grant and usually ends 20 years from the date you first applied for the patent subject to the payment of appropriate maintenance fees. Design patents last 14 years from the date you are granted the patent. No maintenance fees are required for design patents.

Note: Patents in force on June 8, 1995 and patents issued thereafter on applications filed prior to June 8, 1995 automatically have a term that is the greater of the twenty year term discussed above or seventeen years from the patent grant.


http://www.uspto.gov/inventors/patents.jsp


I stand corrected. thank you.
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:00:29 PM EST
Aliens.


They don't like it.
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:00:36 PM EST
The real reason was politics, the theory behind the ban was and is completely bogus.

For quite some time Dupont fought the ban, they spent a lot of money fighting it, eventually they figured out the govt was bound and determined to do it, also their patents had run out and everyone and their dog was making it, so they did their research and found a new refrigerant/propellant, patented that new product and then started supporting the ban.

Anyone who tells you that Dupont was behind the ban is either misinformed or lying. The fought it tooth and nail, ultimately they did get behind it, but that was YEARS later.

The freon ban was brought to you by some of the same people who are trying to sell us on global warming, the entire premise of the freon ban was built on a lie, as is the global warming hoax. The global warming hoax was started by this guy pushing the so called "hockey stick", and researchers have been able to prove the hockey stick was built on falsified information, the guy cherry picked the data to give the result he wanted, when all the data is included, the hockey stick disappears.
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:02:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/15/2012 1:04:33 PM EST by Dan_shoe]
Fyi. Freon is a brand name. Refrigerant is what you're talking about

(Clip and magazine type argument)
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:03:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/15/2012 1:03:40 PM EST by kevinb120]
Well, if you REALLY want to get into the good stuff at the EPA, William Ruckelshaus decided to ban DDT, because he and only he FELT like it.

It has directly resulted in the deaths of more then 110,000,000 in Africa from Malaria. That's a pretty powerful ink pen.
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:05:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By Wingman26:
The real reason was politics, the theory behind the ban was and is completely bogus.

For quite some time Dupont fought the ban, they spent a lot of money fighting it, eventually they figured out the govt was bound and determined to do it, also their patents had run out and everyone and their dog was making it, so they did their research and found a new refrigerant/propellant, patented that new product and then started supporting the ban.

Anyone who tells you that Dupont was behind the ban is either misinformed or lying. The fought it tooth and nail, ultimately they did get behind it, but that was YEARS later.

The freon ban was brought to you by some of the same people who are trying to sell us on global warming, the entire premise of the freon ban was built on a lie, as is the global warming hoax. The global warming hoax was started by this guy pushing the so called "hockey stick", and researchers have been able to prove the hockey stick was built on falsified information, the guy cherry picked the data to give the result he wanted, when all the data is included, the hockey stick disappears.


Cass Sustein?

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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:07:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By PatriotAr15:
I have a friend who aserts, that the REAL reason it was banned... was because Dow chemical's or Dupont's (some huge chemical company), patent on Freon was about to expire. So they developed a NEW type of Freon, had it patented, and then lobbied and got a bunch of prostitutes politicians in washington to ban the soon-to-be-public-domain freon. In other words, the only reason Freon was illegalized was to protect corporate profits and interests.... thereby circumventing our Free Market system for the benefits of a few select.

How accurate is that view?


'Bout as accurate as GM having a 200 mpg carberateur that runs on tap water...

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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:10:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Aliens.


They don't like it.


Originally Posted By BuckHammer:
You do know that there's a "Politics and Activism" board on ARFcom, don't you?
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:10:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dan_shoe:
Fyi. Freon is a brand name. Refrigerant is what you're talking about

(Clip and magazine type argument)


Came in to say this.

R-22 is from recovered supplies only. No virgin product. residential and commercial. Too many units use it to ban it.

R-410 is the new stuff. Residential and commercial.

R-134A is still sold. Mostly appliances so less of it out there.


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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:11:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By kevinb120:
Well, if you REALLY want to get into the good stuff at the EPA, William Ruckelshaus decided to ban DDT, because he and only he FELT like it.

It has directly resulted in the deaths of more then 110,000,000 in Africa from Malaria. That's a pretty powerful ink pen.


Check out Death By Liberalism for more info on this, banning CFC's in Asthma meds, the end results of mileage standards, etc.
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PatriotAr15
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:11:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Originally Posted By hourglassing:
Jesus Fucking Christ.

Freon was invented in 1928. Patents last for 15 or 17 years. Freon was restricted in the 1990s.

Some people are just too stupid to be allowed to vote or drive.


When did they patent R134a or whatever it was?

<––has never spent more than a second or two thinking about this; has no clue as to the validity of the Op's premise.

Neither have I, hence why I posted it and asked you all.
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:12:22 PM EST
Link to thread? Perhaps he posted something.....naughty.
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:13:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By bowbender7:
Dow and Dupont have been fucking us up for a long time.

Research hemp...

FPNI.


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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:14:35 PM EST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-410A


R-410A was invented and patented by Allied Signal (now Honeywell) in 1991.
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:16:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/15/2012 1:20:12 PM EST by Matt_Krush]
Pretty much sounds about right....
They developed the TY-VEC house wrap which was sold initially as a wind/air barrier ....then after much push got the building codes to accept an air/vapor barrier legislation code requirement...that their product (Ty-Vec) would meet and be used for....and for a while they were the only game in town thus dominating the market with an exclusive proprietary product (since that time other manufacturers arose)....
But yeah...I can see that from them...they are shady enough to push such a thing. I live near the corporate offices in MI and know people there.

R-134a was being introduced (memory here) in the latter 1980's. Legislation calling for restrictions & bans were in the early 1990's. Latter half of the 90's freon was an expensive refrigerant to get...available but EXPENSIVE and you had to be licensed (HVAC or mechanic) to be able to purchase limited quantities. (propane became the red-neck refrigerant for a while in cars etc)
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:17:02 PM EST
It's all about the money. They said it was thas the chlorine destroying the ozone, how many swimming pools did you see shut down?

Look at it like vhs tapes and casset players, everybody had to buy new equipment when the technology changed, didn't have a choice.

Been doing hvac for 29 years now. think all that stuff is a big joke.

Like mentioned above, freon is a dupont brand name, like all soda is called coke
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:19:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By kevinb120:

Originally Posted By jmt1271:
Just more of the global warming scam.

Actually it was the global cooling/new Ice Age predictions at the time.


Seriously.


Actually, it is about neither. CFCs result in depletion of the ozone layer (something that still happens, even if the MSM doesn't cover it––heck, in early '11 there was a hole in the Arctic ozone as well as the typical yearly Antarctic hole,) and are not linked to climate change. It should be noted that many of the things used to replace CFCs (like R-134,) actually *are* classified as greenhouse gases.
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:33:58 PM EST
We haven't heard shit about the "hole in the ozone layer" in years. That was the old "flavor of the month".

And no one really knows if it was a new phenomenon or not or that freon was the cause.

And when and where did the "hole in the ozone" happen? At the south pole during our summers... that is, winter down there.

We know that ozone is formed from the action of sunlight on O2 in the upper atmosphere. Winter, little to no sunlight... reduced ozone production.

So, if freon is the cause, why was the hole not over Los Angeles? There are more cars, car a/c unit, and escaping freon there than any place else in the world.

Seriously, it is a natural phenomenon, happens every year and was never a real problem. And it was quickly replaced by "manmade global warming" as the new boogy man.
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:39:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/15/2012 1:41:30 PM EST by scotchymcdrinkerbean]
Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
We haven't heard shit about the "hole in the ozone layer" in years. That was the old "flavor of the month".

And no one really knows if it was a new phenomenon or not or that freon was the cause.

And when and where did the "hole in the ozone" happen? At the south pole during our summers... that is, winter down there.

We know that ozone is formed from the action of sunlight on O2 in the upper atmosphere. Winter, little to no sunlight... reduced ozone production.

So, if freon is the cause, why was the hole not over Los Angeles? There are more cars, car a/c unit, and escaping freon there than any place else in the world.

Seriously, it is a natural phenomenon, happens every year and was never a real problem. And it was quickly replaced by "manmade global warming" as the new boogy man.


Actually, there are still seasonal holes in the ozone layer over Antarctica and Tibet, and last year, there was one in the Arctic as well. Just because the mainstream media does not cover a thing, does not make it not happen.

As for why there is no problem with ozone depletion in LA, I must inform you that the atmosphere doesn't work that way.

http://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:43:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By kevinb120:

Originally Posted By jmt1271:
Just more of the global warming scam.

Actually it was the global cooling/new Ice Age predictions at the time.


Seriously.


I remember the assemblies we had in elementry school(late 80's very early 90s) of the next Ice age that would hit us in, 10,000 years and that we needed to recycle, reuse, and renew more in order to prevent it.

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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:43:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By kevinb120:
Well, if you REALLY want to get into the good stuff at the EPA, William Ruckelshaus decided to ban DDT, because he and only he FELT like it.

It has directly resulted in the deaths of more then 110,000,000 in Africa from Malaria. That's a pretty powerful ink pen.


How does the EPA regulate what is used in Africa?
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:44:18 PM EST
Cue the " it was aliens" guy.
No single raindrop believes it is responsible for the flood.

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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:45:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/15/2012 1:47:09 PM EST by kevinb120]

Originally Posted By scotchymcdrinkerbean:
Originally Posted By kevinb120:

Originally Posted By jmt1271:
Just more of the global warming scam.

Actually it was the global cooling/new Ice Age predictions at the time.


Seriously.


Actually, it is about neither. CFCs result in depletion of the ozone layer (something that still happens, even if the MSM doesn't cover it––heck, in early '11 there was a hole in the Arctic ozone as well as the typical yearly Antarctic hole,) and are not linked to climate change. It should be noted that many of the things used to replace CFCs (like R-134,) actually *are* classified as greenhouse gases.

That's a fantasy. There is always a 'hole in the ozone layer' over each of the poles for the peak months of winter/summer every year. Sun creates ozone, no sun doesn't create ozone.

It's as moronic as 'carbon dioxide'. Ever see trees that were aren't huge and lush adjacent to a highway?
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:47:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By Sixpack595:
Originally Posted By kevinb120:
Well, if you REALLY want to get into the good stuff at the EPA, William Ruckelshaus decided to ban DDT, because he and only he FELT like it.

It has directly resulted in the deaths of more then 110,000,000 in Africa from Malaria. That's a pretty powerful ink pen.


How does the EPA regulate what is used in Africa?


They don't, and DDT is still in use for mosquito control in many countries. There were reductions in its use in many African countries and India after Carson published her garbage, and people almost certainly died as a result, but as stated, it is in current use.
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:47:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By scotchymcdrinkerbean:
Originally Posted By kevinb120:

Originally Posted By jmt1271:
Just more of the global warming scam.

Actually it was the global cooling/new Ice Age predictions at the time.


Seriously.


Actually, it is about neither. CFCs result in depletion of the ozone layer (something that still happens, even if the MSM doesn't cover it––heck, in early '11 there was a hole in the Arctic ozone as well as the typical yearly Antarctic hole,) and are not linked to climate change. It should be noted that many of the things used to replace CFCs (like R-134,) actually *are* classified as greenhouse gases.

And now they want to replace R-12, R-22, R-134a with R-290 or R-600a i.e propane and butane.
kevinb120
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:48:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sixpack595:
Originally Posted By kevinb120:
Well, if you REALLY want to get into the good stuff at the EPA, William Ruckelshaus decided to ban DDT, because he and only he FELT like it.

It has directly resulted in the deaths of more then 110,000,000 in Africa from Malaria. That's a pretty powerful ink pen.


How does the EPA regulate what is used in Africa?
Where do you think ultra cheap DDT was made. WE could definitely 'afford' more expensive government regulated new pesticides.

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NoloContendere
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:51:11 PM EST
freon was banned for posting nips in gd. Duh
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scotchymcdrinkerbean
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:51:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By kevinb120:

Originally Posted By scotchymcdrinkerbean:
Originally Posted By kevinb120:

Originally Posted By jmt1271:
Just more of the global warming scam.

Actually it was the global cooling/new Ice Age predictions at the time.


Seriously.


Actually, it is about neither. CFCs result in depletion of the ozone layer (something that still happens, even if the MSM doesn't cover it––heck, in early '11 there was a hole in the Arctic ozone as well as the typical yearly Antarctic hole,) and are not linked to climate change. It should be noted that many of the things used to replace CFCs (like R-134,) actually *are* classified as greenhouse gases.

That's a fantasy. There is always a 'hole in the ozone layer' over each of the poles for the peak months of winter/summer every year. Sun creates ozone, no sun doesn't create ozone.

It's as moronic as 'carbon dioxide'. Ever see trees that were aren't huge and lush adjacent to a highway?


This is not true. The first ever serious depletion over the North Pole was last year.

Look, I think that worries over AGW are overblown, and I believe that even if they are not, then the economic costs of trying to combat it represent a situation that will cause much more harm than good, just as I think that earlier concern over direct effects of ozone depletion were likely grossly over-stated. With that being said, sticking my fingers in my ears and saying "nuh-uh!" and making things up out of whole cloth does not strike me as an effective way to get my message across to those who *are* committed to AGW and trying to halt it.
It is not that the inmates are running the asylum––––it is more that the inmates have hired a pack of retarded Irish Setters to run the place, and have retreated to their cells to listen to the talking pecans.

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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:53:58 PM EST
R-12 is still manufactured in mexico, India, and china ( probably many others too). It is big business to smuggle it into the US. $$$
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Posted: 1/15/2012 1:57:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By scotchymcdrinkerbean:
Originally Posted By Sixpack595:
Originally Posted By kevinb120:
Well, if you REALLY want to get into the good stuff at the EPA, William Ruckelshaus decided to ban DDT, because he and only he FELT like it.

It has directly resulted in the deaths of more then 110,000,000 in Africa from Malaria. That's a pretty powerful ink pen.


How does the EPA regulate what is used in Africa?


They don't, and DDT is still in use for mosquito control in many countries. There were reductions in its use in many African countries and India after Carson published her garbage, and people almost certainly died as a result, but as stated, it is in current use.

http://junkscience.com/ddt/
ARFCOM WEEKLY SCHEDULE:
M: which brand is best?
T: F-marked FSB?
W: F/A vs Semi BCG?
TH: 1/7 vs 1/9?
F: M4 ramps?
S: Mil/Commercial buffer?
SU: upper-lower fit?
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