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JarheadChiro
U.S. Marine 86-91
InstructorMilitary
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Posted: 1/6/2012 2:55:06 PM EST
I gave my X-gf a facial once then couldn't recognize her...

is that what we're talking about?



Experience is a horrible teacher, because it usually gives the test before the lesson.
Veteran of Operations: Praying Mantis, Sharp Edge, Just Cause, Desert Shield/Storm.
CWO
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Posted: 1/6/2012 4:00:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By mcantu:
this is what wearing a couple of small IR LEDs will look like to a camera...

http://hackedgadgets.com/wp-content/2/_IR_LED_Blocks_Security_Camera.jpg


Hint: What time of day do you suppose that was taken?
"The only failure of Liberty is that it does not automatically bestow honor, good character, self-discipline and personal responsibility upon its owner."
BatchelorGroda
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Posted: 1/6/2012 4:17:28 PM EST
I never get sick of posting this guys videos...





txinvestigator
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Posted: 1/6/2012 8:49:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By Skillshot:


It has been illegal for almost a hundred years in tx to wear a mask in public. I don't doubt the do-gooders would make "face altering makeup" a crime, too.


Good grief, no it's not
oxmav3rickxo
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Posted: 1/6/2012 8:55:14 PM EST
tumbleweed
fuego antipático
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Posted: 1/6/2012 10:06:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
Originally Posted By Strykewolf:
Originally Posted By Mosin_Nagant:
Isn't IR light dangerous to your vision?


Ultraviolet is. IR, isn't, to my recollection.


IR can be. So can normal visible light. Just depends on the power.

I'm no expert either, but I believe IR is more dangerous tho, because your pupils don't react to it.

Power does have a lot to do with eye safety.

UV will be absorbed by the lens (which is damaging as well) and won't reach the retina. The eye has a spectral response to IR wavelengths down to 2000nm, though greatly diminished. It has good near IR response from 1400nm to 700nm and the lens will focus the light onto the retina. It is for this particular reason that IR lasers can be dangerous.

Light emitted from LED's is random phase (not coherent like lasers) and generally do not pose an eye risk. Prolonged exposure to any intense light isn't a good thing so it's important to know if your looking at bright IR. With LED's the eye would undergo thermal stress (burn) over much longer periods of time. Lasers on the other hand can have an instantaneous affect on the retina.

LED's would have limited use as a tool against camera systems. They'd be effective in a narrow range of conditions, where range, ambient light level, angle to ccd, and light intensity all come into play. That plastic nose and glasses would make a far better defense.

The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him. Stanislaw Jerszy Lec
Alacran
NOT MY PRESIDENT!!!
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Posted: 1/6/2012 10:21:20 PM EST


He who rises up to kill us, we will pre-empt it and kill him first. - Ariel Sharon, 2002

My ar15.com quote in WorldNetDaily - http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?pageId=45823
DamageInc308
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Posted: 1/6/2012 10:30:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By Skillshot:


It has been illegal for almost a hundred years in tx to wear a mask in public. I don't doubt the do-gooders would make "face altering makeup" a crime, too.


Even if it gets really cold outside?

FrankSymptoms
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Posted: 1/6/2012 10:41:21 PM EST
Hire THIS WOMAN to precede you into the protected area. She will burn out the system.

WARNING! She's some naaasty stuff!
My poetic license has been suspended.

Never piss off a bunk of bored drunk guys with a battleship--Aimless

Their systems aren't too different from ours

Strong back, weak mind... and I'm not so sure about the back...
ColonelPanic
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Posted: 1/7/2012 12:12:10 AM EST
Are we talking about defeating facial recognition as tricking a system in to a false positive, a false negative or to DoS it? The IR emitter under the ballcap of course will DoS it, but then again, you are making yourself a much more obvious target by sticking out to even the most novice operator (if it's an automated system, a big glowing dot in place of a face is MUCH easier to flag than a face). If you come back with "but then they won't know who I am", well, come on, use your head. You just made yourself a target and are visible in the "optical" spectrum, they take your picture and use other techniques.

If you are trying to trick a system in to a false positive, then a simple picture has been shown to work for some of the lower end systems (ie those you will find in laptops). Biometrics aren't the panacea to identification/authentication, they are just a lot more convenient and APPEAR to be more effective on the surface for the most part. The makeup attacks I've read about defeat ONE facial detection algorithm.... congrats.

Case in point, security access to some nuclear power plants about 10+ years ago was controlled by a palm scan and an ID badge (just a photo badge, no fancy electronics or watermarks). This was believed to be good enough until someone realized that a cardboard cut out of the person's hand would fool the system. The incredibly forward-looking security folks struck back with an addon that would detect the depth of the hand so a simple piece of cardboard wouldn't work. Hackers responded with a pop sickle stick turned on edge.

Modern bio metrics, in combination with the two other pieces of the authentication triangle (something you know (password), something you have (ID badge, fob, etc), something you are (bio metrics)) can be a very difficult security mechanism to defeat. As with anything, the devil is in the details and how dedicated and well-funded your adversaries are.
RocketmanOU
Inventor, CEO...more importantly, RIFLEMAN
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Posted: 1/7/2012 1:38:05 AM EST
I have an idea - don't live in an area where you're under video surveillance all the time. I simply couldn't put up with that crap. Dear UK - good job, feel safer now, or did you find that forking over your privacy got you nothing?

Dear fedgov: we're not supposed to be following their lead on this one.
"If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."
CWO
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Posted: 1/7/2012 8:31:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By ColonelPanic:
Are we talking about defeating facial recognition as tricking a system in to a false positive, a false negative or to DoS it? The IR emitter under the ballcap of course will DoS it, but then again, you are making yourself a much more obvious target by sticking out to even the most novice operator (if it's an automated system, a big glowing dot in place of a face is MUCH easier to flag than a face). If you come back with "but then they won't know who I am", well, come on, use your head. You just made yourself a target and are visible in the "optical" spectrum, they take your picture and use other techniques.

If you are trying to trick a system in to a false positive, then a simple picture has been shown to work for some of the lower end systems (ie those you will find in laptops). Biometrics aren't the panacea to identification/authentication, they are just a lot more convenient and APPEAR to be more effective on the surface for the most part. The makeup attacks I've read about defeat ONE facial detection algorithm.... congrats.

Case in point, security access to some nuclear power plants about 10+ years ago was controlled by a palm scan and an ID badge (just a photo badge, no fancy electronics or watermarks). This was believed to be good enough until someone realized that a cardboard cut out of the person's hand would fool the system. The incredibly forward-looking security folks struck back with an addon that would detect the depth of the hand so a simple piece of cardboard wouldn't work. Hackers responded with a pop sickle stick turned on edge.

Modern bio metrics, in combination with the two other pieces of the authentication triangle (something you know (password), something you have (ID badge, fob, etc), something you are (bio metrics)) can be a very difficult security mechanism to defeat. As with anything, the devil is in the details and how dedicated and well-funded your adversaries are.

About 95% of everything you wrote is incorrect. Period.

Thanks for the laughs on the nuke power plant "palm scanner". Its NOT a palm scanner.

And please learn to spell "biometrics" if you are going to try to write like an authority on the subject.

But please - go ahead and clip and IR strobe to your baseball hat and walk around thinking that you are defeating the cameras you encounter.
"The only failure of Liberty is that it does not automatically bestow honor, good character, self-discipline and personal responsibility upon its owner."
Vault_Boy
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Posted: 1/7/2012 8:53:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
Originally Posted By mcantu:
this is what wearing a couple of small IR LEDs will look like to a camera...

http://hackedgadgets.com/wp-content/2/_IR_LED_Blocks_Security_Camera.jpg



That is an IR camera. It won't work for any camera with IR or UV filters which is pretty much all of them. Most cameras don't have night vision capability.



Wrong. Its the reverse. Almost all cameras see IR. Press the volume button onyour remote and look at it with your videocamera/phone/whatever.
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