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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 8:42:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By Silver_Surfer:
It really doesn't matter after an exchange like that. TEOTWAWKI


Says who?

Ever read John Hackett's novel, "The Third World War, August 1985"?

In it, he describes a conventional war that escalates to a very limited nuclear exchange - and then stops there. Essentially, both sides step back from the abyss. None of the missile bases are hit.
"The skin of civilization is only 7 meals thick..."
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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 8:44:53 AM EST
Thread needs more Ice-Cold Beer Machine.


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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 8:50:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By Skibane:
Originally Posted By Silver_Surfer:
It really doesn't matter after an exchange like that. TEOTWAWKI


Says who?

Ever read John Hackett's novel, "The Third World War, August 1985"?

In it, he describes a conventional war that escalates to a very limited nuclear exchange - and then stops there. Essentially, both sides step back from the abyss. None of the missile bases are hit.


Just because it's described in a novel doesn't mean that's a likely outcome.

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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 8:52:07 AM EST
So, the bottom line, as of now, is that most folks don't know and those that do aren't saying. Maybe it's classified, I dunno. Most stuff involving nukes is classified so why not this as well.....

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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 8:54:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By Skibane:
Originally Posted By Silver_Surfer:
It really doesn't matter after an exchange like that. TEOTWAWKI


Says who?

Ever read John Hackett's novel, "The Third World War, August 1985"?

In it, he describes a conventional war that escalates to a very limited nuclear exchange - and then stops there. Essentially, both sides step back from the abyss. None of the missile bases are hit.


The residents of Birmingham in the UK were a bit disappointed at how things evolved.

I require alcohol, red meat, hot naked women, and large quantities of small arms and ammo. My other hobbies are soft, furry bunny rabbits, pretty butterflies, and balloons in pastel colors.
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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 8:59:17 AM EST
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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 9:00:20 AM EST
Okay, to everyone who say's we are going to do a "RELOAD", just HOW MANY "SPARES" do you think we have???

ICBM's are EXPENSIVE!!!!

How many B-1's/B-2's do we just have "Sitting around" in reserve???

The only "SPARE" ICBM's are the ones undergoing Maintenance. Maybe 10% of the "Fleet" at any one time. AND, I'd say, they are NOT ready to fly at a moment's notice.

And, as several folks have pointed out, the silo is going to be COOKED from the previous launch. The only reusable silo that I know of is at Vandenberg.

Also, WHERE are these "RELOADS" Coming from? Ellsworth? Grand Forks? Malmstrom? FE Warren?? You don't think there's going to have been about 5 impact points close to HQ on each of those bases? You think they work on missles in hardened shelters???

One and done baby....They shoot their load, and then E&E to their bug out point.

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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 9:05:20 AM EST
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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 9:05:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By helogene:
Okay, to everyone who say's we are going to do a "RELOAD", just HOW MANY "SPARES" do you think we have???

ICBM's are EXPENSIVE!!!!

How many B-1's/B-2's do we just have "Sitting around" in reserve???

The only "SPARE" ICBM's are the ones undergoing Maintenance. Maybe 10% of the "Fleet" at any one time. AND, I'd say, they are NOT ready to fly at a moment's notice.

And, as several folks have pointed out, the silo is going to be COOKED from the previous launch. The only reusable silo that I know of is at Vandenberg.

Also, WHERE are these "RELOADS" Coming from? Ellsworth? Grand Forks? Malmstrom? FE Warren?? You don't think there's going to have been about 5 impact points close to HQ on each of those bases? You think they work on missles in hardened shelters???

One and done baby....They shoot their load, and then E&E to their bug out point.



This makes the most sense.
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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 9:06:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By Notorious:
Originally Posted By 556A2:
Tagged for Limaxray




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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 9:06:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By Sandman556:
Originally Posted By Skibane:
Originally Posted By Silver_Surfer:
It really doesn't matter after an exchange like that. TEOTWAWKI


Says who?

Ever read John Hackett's novel, "The Third World War, August 1985"?

In it, he describes a conventional war that escalates to a very limited nuclear exchange - and then stops there. Essentially, both sides step back from the abyss. None of the missile bases are hit.


Just because it's described in a novel doesn't mean that's a likely outcome.


Read the book. There is NOTHING unlikely about what is described.
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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 9:06:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/28/2011 9:09:52 AM EST by springermania]
Originally Posted By redleg13a:
So, the bottom line, as of now, is that most folks don't know and those that do aren't saying. Maybe it's classified, I dunno. Most stuff involving nukes is classified so why not this as well.....


ICBM crews will do the following operations, in rank order:

1. Maintain life support for both the crew and the weapon system
2. EWO (can't talk about here)
3. Continue to comply with Weapon System Safety Rules, or WSSRs
4. Maintain security, as applicable
5. Troubleshoot and fix weapon system faults
6. Other things that do not fall into the previous, higher priority items

We would continue to do those things as long as we we're alive. Despite a lack if ICBMs in the ground given the scenario, there's still plenty to do, less you get blowed up.

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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 9:06:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By redleg13a:
So, the bottom line, as of now, is that most folks don't know and those that do aren't saying. Maybe it's classified, I dunno. Most stuff involving nukes is classified so why not this as well.....


AFAIK Lima-Xray is the ONLY person on this site that would know - everyone else is just guessing.



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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 9:09:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By Angelshare1:
They probably have some sort of task for them. The military has always had a policy of making sure our troops never have any down time.

The fuck you say. Because of the down time I am the greatest spades player in history. Same with the x-box and play station. And I can furiously spunk, and with the accuracy of a sniper rifle.

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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 9:22:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By Angelshare1:
They probably have some sort of task for them. The military has always had a policy of making sure our troops never have any down time.


Buff the floor.

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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 9:27:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheRX7Project:

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Their location is probably a designated target. But if they don't get their socks rocked off within half an hour of launching their own bird, they'll probably live.


The launch crews command not one, but several launch silos, if I'm not mistaken. (I could be.) Their job is done only when all the birds are launched. When that happens, then I guess that they're
probably free to leave the complex, drive to the nearest town that hasn't been nuked to powder, and get rip-roaring drunk, knowing that they did their part in fighting
a nuclear war costing millions of lives in just a few short minutes.


I don't know what the career advancement is for a missile crew that ran out of missiles and survived the aftermath. But it might involve psychotherapy for an extended period of time.


Nuke crews bear the heaviest burden of responsibility of ANY military members. All it takes is two people to turn two keys after authenticating their orders and launch codes, and at
that point, those two turned keys launch many megatons of canned sunshine that will most certainly put an end to the lives of a great many fellow human beings.

It takes a special kind of person to be dedicated to that job when he knows what the consequences will be should he ever actually complete that task.


CJ


I'd fucking do it. I think we need to do it, to prove a point... instead of dicking around with these ground wars, when more could be accomplished much easier.

If we had wiped out A-Stan before the end of September, 2001... maybe Pakistan would've gotten their shit together. "Our government will be actively seeking and immediately executing any Taliban within our borders... please don't nuke us too!"

I swear, I would, too.

I subscribe to the Sherman war doctrine:


War must be something to fear. If you do not make it too terrible to contemplate, you are not doing it right.

When you fight a war, you come to conquer or you stay home. Nothing in between.


When we fought wars all-out with all means at our disposal, making it as bloody and brutal as we knew how to make it, it always ended in the unconditional
surrender of one side, at a very clearly defined moment. And at that time, the war was OVER.


But starting in Vietnam, and, on a very small scale, Korea, we started to fight a "kindler, gentler" sort of war, replacing mass strikes with increasingly more
precise attacks that removed specific targest with ever-reducing collateral damage and always less impact on the local population and infrastructure.

As this trend has continued, wars have stopped ending neatly, at a given time, and WITHOUT unconditional surrender. Often, one side declares victory,
not stopping to notice that the other side hasn't quit fighting.


Witness Afghanistan: It's been TEN YEARS since our first shots fired in Afghanistan against the Taliban and Al Qaida. And it's STILL not over yet.

Compare that to WWII, which started in 1939 (1941 for the US) and was over in 1945.


The difference: We and our allies were quite prepared to slaughter every living thing in Germany and Japan if that was what we needed to do in order
to force their unconditional surrender.


If war is not hell, you are doing it wrong.


We're doing it wrong.


CJ

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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 9:57:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By USMCTanker:
Originally Posted By Skibane:
Originally Posted By Silver_Surfer:
It really doesn't matter after an exchange like that. TEOTWAWKI


Says who?

Ever read John Hackett's novel, "The Third World War, August 1985"?

In it, he describes a conventional war that escalates to a very limited nuclear exchange - and then stops there. Essentially, both sides step back from the abyss. None of the missile bases are hit.


The residents of Birmingham in the UK were a bit disappointed at how things evolved.



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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:01:32 AM EST
Realistically....if I had just killed a million or so human beings.....I'd probly eat my sidearm.

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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:02:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/28/2011 10:17:57 AM EST by limaxray]
Assume 3 million degrees Centigrade.



Seriously, springermania has already said what I would. He was my deputy for a few alerts and he's an AWESOME missileer.

(I still owe him some Motrin for the backache he earned carrying a beat-up old dog trying to learn some new tricks through some tough alerts.)

No reloads. No ICBM the US has fielded has had LESS THAN a two-day installation time, in good conditions. Minuteman takes one day to load the booster, one day to load the guidance & reentry systems. Older ones were closer to four or five (Titan and Atlas). And no on-hand spares, unless it's for a planned maintenance action. They're not like cartridges––they take a lot of care and feeding even when they're not loaded.

And the launch cycle well and truly trashes the facility. The ones at Vandenberg have a nasty substance called "pucky" they use to seal the inside of the launch tube so the flames and exhaust don't cook the rest of the equipment. The operational sites don't use pucky. You can refurbish them, but it's not going to be an overnight job.

And even if all the missiles are gone, we're still a valuable command and control/communications center.

Of course, the REAL post-launch checklist looks like this:

1. Keyturn.

2. Ensure your missiles left the ground.

3. Go just outside the capsule into the tunnel junction, drag all the MREs for the topside folks to use during shelter ops into the capsule.

4. Secure & lock the 5-ton blast door (it only opens from the inside).

5. Kill your deputy. Fresh meat for a couple of days and more MREs for you in the long run.

And if the cook is female, she's coming down with all the Cokes and chips she can carry right before Step 4.

ETA: And somebody needs to photoshop some of these:



into a stripper clip.
"Three, two, one, keyturn."

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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:08:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/28/2011 10:19:26 AM EST by DonKey153]
meh, it's been covered

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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:09:50 AM EST
This isn't a democracy, it's a cheerocracy !
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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:10:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By JBnTX:
They wait for the base to bring them a re-load and once it's in place they will wait for orders to fire it.
They'll continue to do that as long as the missles hold out and they're able to continue to strike the enemy.

When you're in combat and your weapon is empty, you re-load.
Same thing with the missile crews.


No.

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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:12:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Their location is probably a designated target. But if they don't get their socks rocked off within half an hour of launching their own bird, they'll probably live.


The launch crews command not one, but several launch silos, if I'm not mistaken. (I could be.) Their job is done only when all the birds are launched. When that happens, then I guess that they're
probably free to leave the complex, drive to the nearest town that hasn't been nuked to powder, and get rip-roaring drunk, knowing that they did their part in fighting
a nuclear war costing millions of lives in just a few short minutes.


I don't know what the career advancement is for a missile crew that ran out of missiles and survived the aftermath. But it might involve psychotherapy for an extended period of time.


Nuke crews bear the heaviest burden of responsibility of ANY military members. All it takes is two people to turn two keys after authenticating their orders and launch codes, and at
that point, those two turned keys launch many megatons of canned sunshine that will most certainly put an end to the lives of a great many fellow human beings.

It takes a special kind of person to be dedicated to that job when he knows what the consequences will be should he ever actually complete that task.


CJ



I could do it.

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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:14:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By Headless_T_Gunner:
There is a Titan II museum in Arizona. It was once an active silo. The guys giving the tours and explaining how it all worked are former airmen who worked in the silo. Someone asked this question when I took the tour. The guy said they were probably going to be taken out by the incomming missiles and if not then there were no orders post launch. He said they were basically on their own after launch.


Titan & Atlas were single-missile systems. One launch crew per bird.

Minuteman has one launch crew per ten, with the ability to control up to 50.
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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:14:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By Red_Label:
... some serious WoW with the guys over at the enemy silos?

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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:15:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By ex_dsmr:
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
Get coffee, I'd imagine.


More like a cigarette

If it came to that I'd probably start smoking again.
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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:15:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By MrKandiyohi:
Originally Posted By 92trk:
Watch the movie Damnation Alley, it will explain eveything.


Hey, someone else has seen that abomination of a movie.


Firehouse favorite.

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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:15:38 AM EST
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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:16:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By PlaneJane:
Originally Posted By dport:
Originally Posted By JBnTX:
They wait for the base to bring them a re-load and once it's in place they will wait for orders to fire it.
They'll continue to do that as long as the missles hold out and they're able to continue to strike the enemy.

When you're in combat and your weapon is empty, you re-load.
Same thing with the missile crews.


You have to be joking.

I think they have really, really big stripper clips.

Jane



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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:18:59 AM EST
Take a nap and call her the next day

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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:19:23 AM EST
Waiting for JBnTxs rebuttal to the rebuttals.
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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:20:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/28/2011 10:20:54 AM EST by limaxray]
Originally Posted By Schlange:

Originally Posted By ex_dsmr:
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
Get coffee, I'd imagine.


More like a cigarette

If it came to that I'd probably start smoking again.


So the missiles have unlocks––an enable code that arms them before launching. (Think single-action pistol––the enable code cocks the hammer, the keyturn pulls the trigger.)

I've suggested before that the capsule should have a safe (that only the enable code opens) containing a 30-year old bottle of Scotch and two cigars.

The General was not amused.
"Three, two, one, keyturn."

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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:23:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Originally Posted By JBnTX:
Originally Posted By dport:
Originally Posted By JBnTX:
They wait for the base to bring them a re-load and once it's in place they will wait for orders to fire it.
They'll continue to do that as long as the missles hold out and they're able to continue to strike the enemy.

When you're in combat and your weapon is empty, you re-load.
Same thing with the missile crews.


You have to be joking.


I spent 21 years in the USAF and I know what I'm talking about.
I've even participated in practice exercises.

As long as they are able to keep firing at the enemy, they do so.
They stay in business until the missile supply is exhausted or an enemy missile takes them out.

It can take less than a day to reload a silo, depending on the distance from the storage facility.

Missiles are delivered out in convoys to each missile site along with the maintenance/weapons teams
to load, arm and fuel the silo.

Crews are then given new launch orders that may require an immediate launch or they might be placed
on alert status for a later launch.

They don't just give up and quit after the first launch, they have a war to fight.

And don't think that just because we have a nuclear exchange that it will mean the end of the world.
Chances are it will be limited exchanges at selected targets on both sides.




Please, just stop.


Na, let him go on, this is entertianing.
I would be all over that like a preacher on a offering plate.
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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:27:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Reload?

Ding!
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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:27:44 AM EST
dont forget a lighter or matches
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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:32:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By Frank_The_Tank:
Waiting for JBnTxs rebuttal to the rebuttals.


He's reloading.
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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:33:05 AM EST
fill out paperwork. Rounds issued, rounds expended, account for each empty silo, you know - important stuff.
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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:35:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By dorobuta:
fill out paperwork. Rounds issued, rounds expended, account for each empty silo, you know - important stuff.


Policing up the empty cases is the hardest part.

"Three, two, one, keyturn."

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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:35:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/28/2011 10:42:01 AM EST by NAM]
Originally Posted By limaxray:
I've suggested before that the capsule should have a safe (that only the enable code opens) containing a 30-year old bottle of Scotch and two cigars.

The General was not amused.


lol....what a shame. There're a few stars I've met that would fully support that suggestion.
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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:36:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By limaxray:
Originally Posted By dorobuta:
fill out paperwork. Rounds issued, rounds expended, account for each empty silo, you know - important stuff.


Policing up the empty cases is the hardest part.

Two words: Giant Magnet.




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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:38:52 AM EST
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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:39:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By redoubt:
Originally Posted By JBnTX:
Originally Posted By dport:
Originally Posted By JBnTX:
They wait for the base to bring them a re-load and once it's in place they will wait for orders to fire it.
They'll continue to do that as long as the missles hold out and they're able to continue to strike the enemy.

When you're in combat and your weapon is empty, you re-load.
Same thing with the missile crews.


You have to be joking.


I spent 21 years in the USAF and I know what I'm talking about.
I've even participated in practice exercises.

As long as they are able to keep firing at the enemy, they do so.
They stay in business until the missile supply is exhausted or an enemy missile takes them out.

It can take less than a day to reload a silo, depending on the distance from the storage facility.

Missiles are delivered out in convoys to each missile site along with the maintenance/weapons teams
to load, arm and fuel the silo.

Crews are then given new launch orders that may require an immediate launch or they might be placed
on alert status for a later launch.

They don't just give up and quit after the first launch, they have a war to fight.

And don't think that just because we have a nuclear exchange that it will mean the end of the world.
Chances are it will be limited exchanges at selected targets on both sides.






You might be able to reload a Peacekeeper silo, since they did a cold launch, but those aren't in service anymore.

Minuteman III ignites it's engines in the silo and burns out everything in there. And before launch it uses explosives and rockets to open the silo door. That 120 ton door goes scooting quite a ways.

So, how do you reload a burned out silo with no door?

CGI video of a Minuteman III launch



Like popping the top off a P-Mag!


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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:40:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By Schlange:

Originally Posted By Red_Label:
... some serious WoW with the guys over at the enemy silos?

PVP?


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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:41:48 AM EST
A few questions:

What's with all the talk about getting the fuck out of there after launch? Are the bunkers not capable of surviving a strike? Also, is it easy to detect where the launch came from...aside from the giant smoke trail? Would they be leaving for fear of counter strike, or because they know they're on the list of targets?

Also, how long does it take for an ICBM to deliver a warhead to target?

Lastly, are all of our existing ICBM's single re-entry vehicles/single warheads? Or do we have multiple warhead delivery capability with one ICBM? I think I remember reading that MIRVs were no longer used. Why?
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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:43:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By NAM:
Originally Posted By limaxray:
I've suggested before that the capsule should have a safe (that only the enable code opens) containing a 30-year old bottle of Scotch and two cigars.

The General was not amused.


lol....what a shame. There's a few stars I've met that would fully support that suggestion.


His stated concern was that crewmembers would spend all alert, every alert, trying to figure out the safe combo. "Crewmembers are bad enough at destroying crap without any real incentive; I'm not going to give them one."

He was a good guy, I did say it at an inappropriate time, I'm pretty sure he was really laughing on the inside.

I hope.
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"If there must be trouble let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine

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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:43:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/28/2011 10:52:21 AM EST by Silver_Surfer]
Originally Posted By Skibane:
Originally Posted By Sandman556:
Originally Posted By Skibane:
Originally Posted By Silver_Surfer:
It really doesn't matter after an exchange like that. TEOTWAWKI


Says who?

Ever read John Hackett's novel, "The Third World War, August 1985"?

In it, he describes a conventional war that escalates to a very limited nuclear exchange - and then stops there. Essentially, both sides step back from the abyss. None of the missile bases are hit.


Just because it's described in a novel doesn't mean that's a likely outcome.


Read the book. There is NOTHING unlikely about what is described.



Seen the movie. That was just one scenario. The best outcome for that war? With all the hate and Psychos we have now a days we would be so lucky.


I'm thing more like "Miracle Mile"

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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:43:44 AM EST
Time to party!


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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:44:53 AM EST
Answer on page 21 - no real plans afterwards,,, nothing to plan for....

http://www.thebulletin.org/files/064003005.pdf

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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:45:04 AM EST
hmmm, might be why the AF always seemed to have the hotter chicks. The Marines only had them in public affairs, the fat nasties were in motor T or supply.
Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:

'Cause skinny chicks are like laying on a pile of coat hangers....
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Link Posted: 12/28/2011 10:47:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/28/2011 10:53:31 AM EST by RevolverRO]
I think Dillon makes a tool head for the Minuteman missile, but you have to bolt the reloading press to a BIG fucking workbench.


Seriously, though, I imagine the silo crew has to stand in formation in front of the senior NCO and turn out their pockets to make sure no one has any missiles or warheads in their possession.

"No missiles, no warheads, Sergeant !"

The amnesty box must be pretty damn big.

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