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Dieselman
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Posted: 11/25/2011 9:52:10 PM EST
Why was the Colt 1873 Single Action Army so much more popular than the Remington 1875 pistol? Was the Remington inferior in some way?
Lumpy03
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Posted: 11/25/2011 9:57:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/25/2011 9:57:54 PM EST by Lumpy03]
the Rem is ugly ?

the Colt is a thing of beauty.....
Dieselman
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Posted: 11/25/2011 10:02:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/25/2011 10:03:55 PM EST by Dieselman]
Originally Posted By Lumpy03:
the Rem is ugly ?

the Colt is a thing of beauty.....


Really? I like the look of the Remington!

Remington


Colt
Lumpy03
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Posted: 11/25/2011 10:17:01 PM EST
I think both have nice lines, but I never did understand the belly fin on the Remington.

Loved the Colts, though, since the old Dragoon and Pocket Model 1848/9, is it?

Milo5
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Posted: 11/26/2011 4:01:13 AM EST
Original Remingtons were offered in .44 Remington, .44/40, and rarely, in .45 Colt
The bore diameter remained basically the same for all three calibers so the .44/40s din't shoot well. .44 Remington was an oddball loading which worked well in the gun but none of the commonly available .44 centerfire cartridges would and the .45 Colts were never sold in enough quantities before the .gun was discontinued.

The commercial .45 Colt load was the powerhouse round of the day and Colt correctly bored and rifled the guns that were chambered in Winchester cartridges so it shot to an accuracy standard that was considered target grade in that era.
Many original handguns from that era shot no where near as good.
Strongbow
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Posted: 11/26/2011 4:05:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By Lumpy03:
the Rem is ugly ?

the Colt is a thing of beauty.....


Strongbow
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Posted: 11/26/2011 4:07:16 AM EST
S&W Model 3 Schofield ftw!


ultramagbrion
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Posted: 11/26/2011 4:10:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/26/2011 4:44:50 AM EST by ultramagbrion]
Originally Posted By Dieselman:
Originally Posted By Lumpy03:
the Rem is ugly ?

the Colt is a thing of beauty.....


Really? I like the look of the Remington!

Remington
http://www.icollector.com/images/1618/17522/17522_1628_1_lg.jpg

Colt
http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/2212200913/8733444/acfec39.jpg


Yeah , mark me down for the Remington camp too , I always thought it was a bit prettier as well . ( Not to shit on the SAA , which is a very pretty piece)


Originally Posted By Strongbow:
S&W Model 3 Schofield ftw!




Another gorgeous piece of history



Personally , I'm partial to converted Walkers and Dragoons



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TheBigAR2003
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Posted: 11/26/2011 4:11:21 AM EST
Remington seemed to always be just a few years behind the curve
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Posted: 11/26/2011 4:18:20 AM EST
Colt is much better looking.
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JMD
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Posted: 11/26/2011 4:28:49 AM EST
Colt had better advertising and I belileve there was some issues with Remingtons ( a few lemons that gave them a bad reputation). I read about it many years ago and cannot remember exactly why.

Also in sheer numbers Colt exceeded Remingtons production.
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Posted: 11/26/2011 4:49:59 AM EST
I've always liked the look of the frame web on the Remingtons, too. And according to "Little Bill" in Unforgiven, the Colt Walkers blew up in people's hands. Is any of that true?
Hmm, let me think here...
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Posted: 11/26/2011 5:34:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/26/2011 5:37:16 AM EST by ultramagbrion]
Originally Posted By RTUtah:
I've always liked the look of the frame web on the Remingtons, too. And according to "Little Bill" in Unforgiven, the Colt Walkers blew up in people's hands. Is any of that true?


The original Walkers had some bugs , fer sure .
Chain fires , from one cylinder to the next were a little too common for people's 'peace of mind' . The cylinders were blowing on a few . The ram rod almost purposely fell off the tab that held it against the barrel when a shooter loaded the 60 grs of powder ( watch the youtube vids , it's quite common on the replicas as well )

The Dragoons addressed many of the issues . How well , I dont really know . . . . I'm but a speck in the BP revolver knowledge vault But there's a fuck-ton of articles out there to read up on .

I really want to do the Kurst cartridge conversion on mine and try the 45 blackpowder magnum loads made using 460 S&W cases .

meh . . . . another project in my long list of 'To Dooos' once I have my own mill .


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GuardGuy
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Posted: 11/26/2011 6:52:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By TheBigAR2003:
Remington seemed to always be just a few years behind the curve


Not always the case. Some might argue that because of the top strap the Remington 1858 was superior to the Colt 1860 and it came out two years ahead.
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Posted: 11/26/2011 6:54:18 AM EST
The Remington was in Raiders of the lost Ark, in the beginning, Indy whips it out of the guys hand and it lands in the water at the edge.
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Posted: 11/26/2011 7:02:24 AM EST
Remington had good features, ammo and Colt marketing sealed the deal.

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Posted: 11/26/2011 7:05:59 AM EST
I have an original of each. Thought I would prefer the Rem before I had either, but just something magical about the 19th century Colts.

I've fired about every gun I own, but could not bring myself to fire either.

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ultramagbrion
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Posted: 11/26/2011 7:08:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By ChopperBob:
I have an original of each. Thought I would prefer the Rem before I had either, but just something magical about the 19th century Colts.

I've fired about every gun I own, but could not bring myself to fire either.

Bob


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Posted: 11/26/2011 7:21:19 AM EST
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Posted: 11/26/2011 7:39:44 AM EST
The Colt is an elegant looking pistol and stands at the acme of revolver design.

The collectibility of Colt SAA's should leave no guessing as to its desirability!

The Remington gives up nothing and, I think, has better balance and stability because of that wedge beneath the barrel. As explained, Colt accuracy was pushed to its limit and simply exceeded Remington's.

Quality wise, Colt may have surpassed the Remington as there are so many more Colt SAA's from nearly all era's... Colt's success in military and commercial sales may have contributed to its longevity and market quantity.

From earlier designs, specifically the black powder period, the Remington's top strap was considered a point of strength over the Colt's open top.

I do look forward to getting a nice Colt SAA... more so than a Remington.
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Posted: 11/26/2011 7:40:35 AM EST
I dont think Remington could keep up with Colt Manufacturing.
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Posted: 11/26/2011 7:58:25 AM EST


Hey!
What are you doing with my 5 1/2"?

Nick
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marcushire
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Posted: 11/26/2011 8:09:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By ultramagbrion:
Originally Posted By Dieselman:
Originally Posted By Lumpy03:
the Rem is ugly ?

the Colt is a thing of beauty.....


Really? I like the look of the Remington!

Remington
http://www.icollector.com/images/1618/17522/17522_1628_1_lg.jpg

Colt
http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/2212200913/8733444/acfec39.jpg


Yeah , mark me down for the Remington camp too , I always thought it was a bit prettier as well . ( Not to shit on the SAA , which is a very pretty piece)


Originally Posted By Strongbow:
S&W Model 3 Schofield ftw!




Another gorgeous piece of history



Personally , I'm partial to converted Walkers and Dragoons

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/ultramagbrion/walker-1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/ultramagbrion/Walker45BPM-1.jpg


Anybody make those for sale? A quick Google didn't turn up much and I want to hit this thread before it disappears.

Always wanted one but was smart enough to know I would shoot a black powder pistol about twice and then put it up.




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Posted: 11/26/2011 8:16:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By Commando_Guy:


Hey!
What are you doing with my 5 1/2"?

Nick

I don't think I have any pistol w/ 5 1/2" barrel, actually.... this one is 4.75" I have a '70's 7.5" barrel in .45 that my wife & I enjoy shooting at steel outdoors.


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Posted: 11/26/2011 8:17:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By Lumpy03:
I think both have nice lines, but I never did understand the belly fin on the Remington.

Loved the Colts, though, since the old Dragoon and Pocket Model 1848/9, is it?



The BELLY FIN remained after the 1858 new army revolver.. It was than to make the lever stronger.
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Posted: 11/26/2011 8:30:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/26/2011 8:30:59 AM EST by Tim_the_enchanter]
I don't care for the lines of the Remington compared to the Model P. I'd take the S&W over both. However, I will take a cap & ball Remington over a cap & ball Colt any day.
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Posted: 11/26/2011 9:04:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By Milo5:
Original Remingtons were offered in .44 Remington, .44/40, and rarely, in .45 Colt
The bore diameter remained basically the same for all three calibers so the .44/40s din't shoot well. .44 Remington was an oddball loading which worked well in the gun but none of the commonly available .44 centerfire cartridges would and the .45 Colts were never sold in enough quantities before the .gun was discontinued.

The commercial .45 Colt load was the powerhouse round of the day and Colt correctly bored and rifled the guns that were chambered in Winchester cartridges so it shot to an accuracy standard that was considered target grade in that era.
Many original handguns from that era shot no where near as good.


Best response so far and "almost" right. Originally made only in .44 Rem - a true .44 cal with healed, outside lubricated bullets (like .22 LR). These picked up grit when carried in open cartridge belt loops popular at the time and rapidly ruined the accuracy of the guns. Rem then switched to .44-40. They did use correct .427 barrels but the cylinders were .44 Rem cylinders just re-chambered. So the cylinder throat was way over size and accuracy - even new - was non-existant. I've never seen or heard of original 1875 Remingtons in .45 Colt so they must have been rare indeed.

The '73 Colt was fairly accurate and worked like a champ in .45 Colt. The bottleneck cartridges like .44-40 and .38-40 had a reputation (deserved or not - I do not know) for backing out against the recoil shield when fired and tying up the cylinder at the worst possible time. So a lot of serious gunmen stuck to .45 Colt in spite of foregoing the convenience of sharing ammo with his '73 Winchester.

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Posted: 11/26/2011 9:17:53 AM EST
How about modern reproductions? Does anybody have a modern Remington 1875 chambered in .45 Colt and a modern reproduction 1873 Colt in .45 Colt that could give aside by side comparison?
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Posted: 11/26/2011 9:20:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/26/2011 9:24:00 AM EST by sharky30]
I like the look of the Remington more too
which is why I bought one from EMF (I think it's just a rebranded Uberti)

edit: just saw the OP's last question
I don't have a colt or reproduction of the colt to compare to, but I like my Remington reproduction. I also got a .45acp cylinder for it but I have never shot acp from it
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Posted: 11/26/2011 9:22:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By Dieselman:

Really? I like the look of the Remington!


So do I, don't feel bad.
*post contains personal opinion only and should not be considered information released in an official capacity*
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Posted: 11/26/2011 10:41:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By ultramagbrion:
Originally Posted By Dieselman:
Originally Posted By Lumpy03:
the Rem is ugly ?

the Colt is a thing of beauty.....


Really? I like the look of the Remington!

Remington
http://www.icollector.com/images/1618/17522/17522_1628_1_lg.jpg

Colt
http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/2212200913/8733444/acfec39.jpg


Yeah , mark me down for the Remington camp too , I always thought it was a bit prettier as well . ( Not to shit on the SAA , which is a very pretty piece)


Originally Posted By Strongbow:
S&W Model 3 Schofield ftw!




Another gorgeous piece of history



Personally , I'm partial to converted Walkers and Dragoons

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/ultramagbrion/walker-1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y214/ultramagbrion/Walker45BPM-1.jpg


That is a beautiful conversion. Now,What if I were to buy a cap and ball pistol,what would I need to do to legally convert it?
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Posted: 11/26/2011 11:57:23 AM EST
I don't see it either. I've had one of those Uberti Cabelas.45 copies plain jane ones (1873) If I ever went that period again I'd go here,

http://www.ubertireplicas.com/revolver-top.php#prod

The smiths loading and unloading is so superior in every way

Maybe the Russian too...

http://www.ubertireplicas.com/revolver-toprussian.php#prod
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Posted: 11/26/2011 12:03:30 PM EST
I'm sure the large military contracts that Colt had also helped.
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Posted: 11/26/2011 12:34:09 PM EST
Closer look-yep, you're right.
Mine looks exactly like mine down to the grips, but mine is a 5 1/2.
1897 build date.

Nick
Originally Posted By ChopperBob:

Originally Posted By Commando_Guy:


Hey!
What are you doing with my 5 1/2"?

Nick

I don't think I have any pistol w/ 5 1/2" barrel, actually.... this one is 4.75" I have a '70's 7.5" barrel in .45 that my wife & I enjoy shooting at steel outdoors.




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Posted: 11/26/2011 12:45:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By CaymanSman:
Remington had good features, ammo and Colt marketing sealed the deal.


+1
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Posted: 11/26/2011 12:49:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By Strongbow:
S&W Model 3 Schofield ftw!




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Posted: 11/26/2011 12:50:24 PM EST
The Army had adopted the Colt SAA.
Military weapon fans then were just like the military weapon fans of today?

The Colt handles better for me. Have to admit I've only fired modern Italian clones of the Remington.
Shits the beat out of me.
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Posted: 11/26/2011 1:21:59 PM EST
Put me into the Remington camp, I have always enjoyed the lines of the Remington. Some day I'll have me a 1875 Remington to go along with my Remington rolling blocks.
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Posted: 11/27/2011 2:32:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/27/2011 3:05:19 AM EST by ultramagbrion]
Originally Posted By marcushire:

Anybody make those for sale? A quick Google didn't turn up much and I want to hit this thread before it disappears.

Always wanted one but was smart enough to know I would shoot a black powder pistol about twice and then put it up.




Originally Posted By raygixxer89:
That is a beautiful conversion. Now,What if I were to buy a cap and ball pistol,what would I need to do to legally convert it?



In 1871, Colt employee Charles Richards was awarded a patent for converting Colt percussion models to breech loading cartridge revolvers. The Richards cartridge conversion was an instant success. On July 2, 1872, William Mason, another Colt employee, was awarded a patent for an improvement to the Richards model. As percussion parts ran short, the 1860 Richards-Mason barrel was changed from the profile of the earlier percussion model, to the sleek profile found on the 1871-72 Open Top.
Conversion models remained popular with cowboys (many originals will be found with imprints of fence staples on the butt) even after the introduction of the 1873 Colt®. This was due to the low cost of conversion models.


I havent done it myself , yet . . . but I'll probably go with a Kirst Konverter for my Walker , and am looking at complete , converted revolvers from Cimarron

The parts are HERE for the Dragoons and Walkers , and HERE for the 1858 Remingtons .







The gunsmithing required can also be done by Kirst , and looks like it's done by Raven Roost , a sub-division of Kirst . . . . Info HERE

The IMFDB site for the movie "The Outlaw Josey Wales " HERE , lists many of the pistols used in the film , with excellent pictures and stills . They talk of the Richards-Mason Cartridge conversion A very good article is HERE on the RM conversions





I think the ultimate , would be a pair of these 1858 Uberti conversion Remington replicas sent through Turnbull to be color case hardened
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Kharn
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Posted: 11/27/2011 2:50:56 AM EST
I've always been a little wary of a revolver without a top strap.

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