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metalsaber
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:07:32 AM
[Last Edit: 10/13/2011 11:16:38 AM by metalsaber]
I think all of us have done this or seen someone flash their lights to warn drivers that there are cops up ahead.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/12/taking-liberties-bright-lights-big-trouble/
Initially he was cited for "improper flashing of high-beams". Ticket was later dismissed, but he's now filing a suit in FL.


"He has a definite different interpretation of the U.S. Constitution than I do,” said Thomas Ruskin. "And than most members of law enforcement.”

Ruskin is a former New York Police Department detective and current police advocate. He says flashing high beams is dangerous and clearly illegal.

"It's illegal because you're warning someone,” he explained. "It's the same thing as saying, 'run, here comes the cops,' You're obstructing a cop from doing his lawful duty.”

He said citizens do not have the right to interfere with a police action that is under way.

"He is aiding law-breakers,” said Ruskin. "He is warning people who are speeding to slow down. His intent is to impede the police.”




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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:09:40 AM
its saved my ass a few times
speedracer422
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:10:02 AM
In some states I do believe it is some kind of non-summary driving offense.




Speed


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rfm05
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:10:06 AM
Nope.
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VBC
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:11:37 AM
No. If the goal of speed traps is to slow people down, it slowed people down.

packinheavy
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:12:13 AM
Originally Posted By VBC:
No. If the goal of speed traps is to slow people down, it slowed people down.



Exactly!
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E5TOMHAV
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:14:19 AM
Originally Posted By packinheavy:
Originally Posted By VBC:
No. If the goal of speed traps is to slow people down, it slowed people down.



Exactly!


The only problem is that we all know that is not the goal...
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:14:39 AM
If the guy wins, it will be a huge money maker for him. He gets a cut of all revenue from of all the people that have been wrongly ticketed.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:14:53 AM
Wow read the part about the cop from NY
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metalsaber
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:15:34 AM

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Wow read the part about the cop from NY

yeah I should have included that part, but didn't want to seem biased. It was pretty much an eye opener.
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EasTexan
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:17:06 AM
Its not illegal here in Texas from what my Texas Law professor and long time police officer says...

The reasoning being that if the Officer has not seen the speeding vehicle then technically, no crime as occurred.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:17:46 AM
I do it religiously, I don't care if a cop sees me doing it either.


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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:19:28 AM
Originally Posted By metalsaber:
I think all of us have done this or seen someone flash their lights to warn drivers that there are cops up ahead.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/12/taking-liberties-bright-lights-big-trouble/
Initially he was cited for "improper flashing of high-beams". Ticket was later dismissed, but he's now filing a suit in FL.


"He has a definite different interpretation of the U.S. Constitution than I do,” said Thomas Ruskin. "And than most members of law enforcement.”

Ruskin is a former New York Police Department detective and current police advocate. He says flashing high beams is dangerous and clearly illegal.

"It's illegal because you're warning someone,” he explained. "It's the same thing as saying, 'run, here comes the cops,' You're obstructing a cop from doing his lawful duty.”

He said citizens do not have the right to interfere with a police action that is under way.

"He is aiding law-breakers,” said Ruskin. "He is warning people who are speeding to slow down. His intent is to impede the police.”






I beat one of those tickets here a few months ago..
TheRX7Project
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:20:47 AM
Is it illegal by letter of the law (depending on state) yes.

Is it morally wrong? I'd say NOT warning someone is worse.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:21:14 AM
Gotta keep that money flowing.

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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:23:04 AM
Not illegal here neither.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:23:58 AM
Screw the police and thief many stupid laws they enforce .
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:25:23 AM

Originally Posted By E5TOMHAV:
Originally Posted By packinheavy:
Originally Posted By VBC:
No. If the goal of speed traps is to slow people down, it slowed people down.



Exactly!


The only problem is that we all know that is not the goal...

Correct, "speed traps" (I put it in quotes because 99% of the time I hear this term its not actually a "speed trap", just an officer trying to enforce the law) are not intended to slow people down in the vicinity of the "speed trap", the goal is to punish people who consistently break the law. After receiving a fine then perhaps they will slow down. Regardless if someone regularly speeds or not, the psychological effect of "I don't want to get a huge ticket" does indeed help keep people driving near the speed limit.


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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:26:08 AM
Flashing your lights at another driver isn't telling that other driver to run from the police. Quite the opposite: it tells other drivers to slow down, to comply with the posted speed limit.
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fatalerror113
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:26:29 AM

Originally Posted By Muerte:
Screw the police and thief many stupid laws they enforce .
Big Brother

So speed limits (set to help ensure that the traffic flows safely due to the design of the roadway) are "stupid"?


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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:27:32 AM
Speeding is illegal as well. Does that stop people from speeding? It doesn't stop me.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:27:38 AM
Either way, I do it often and I appreciate when others give me a heads up as well.

So what about giving out activity/placement over the CB? Never heard a peep out of anyone over that and its the same thing.
Or how about when the morning radio traffic reports "police activity" in a certain area? I hear about it every day.

The guy will win and a bunch of pompus LEO's will get to eat crow.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:28:16 AM
Hopefully this will wake others up to fight other types of stupid tickets.
metalsaber
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:29:15 AM
[Last Edit: 10/13/2011 11:29:32 AM by metalsaber]
Keep in mind, the person flashing their lights has NO idea if the oncoming traffic is breaking the law or not. They could already be complying with the speed limit. So to say that the person is aiding people break the law is ridiculous.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:29:56 AM
I flash all the damn time and appreciate it if someone flashes me.

Revenue generation by the cops really pisses me off.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:30:15 AM
I think the "wrongness" of it from a legal standpoint would depend upon the flasher knowing that other drivers are speeding (knowledge of a crime in progress, so to speak).

If everybody is driving the speed limit, the flasher has not changed the game at all.

In the end, though, if everybody slows down and overall safety is increased, the only downside is law enforcement missing out of some revenue enhancement.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:30:50 AM
Eat a dick, Ruskin
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:33:23 AM
I use my foglights, wired separately from the headlights.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:33:43 AM

Originally Posted By metalsaber:
I think all of us have done this or seen someone flash their lights to warn drivers that there are cops up ahead.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/12/taking-liberties-bright-lights-big-trouble/
Initially he was cited for "improper flashing of high-beams". Ticket was later dismissed, but he's now filing a suit in FL.


"He has a definite different interpretation of the U.S. Constitution than I do,” said Thomas Ruskin. "And than most members of law enforcement.”

Ruskin is a former New York Police Department detective and current police advocate. He says flashing high beams is dangerous and clearly illegal.

"It's illegal because you're warning someone,” he explained. "It's the same thing as saying, 'run, here comes the cops,' You're obstructing a cop from doing his lawful duty.”

He said citizens do not have the right to interfere with a police action that is under way.

"He is aiding law-breakers,” said Ruskin. "He is warning people who are speeding to slow down. His intent is to impede the police.”





So Ruskin doesn't want people to slow down? Proof that speeding tickets are not for safety, merely a revenue generator.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:35:09 AM
wow this is the GD.....got confused with all of the excellent points above.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:35:31 AM
I did it a month or so ago, and another cop coming from the opposite direction saw me flash
and pulled me over.

He said it was illegal in Tennessee to do ANYTHING that distracts another motorist
including flashing, yelling, or waving.

He gave me a verbal warning and let me go.

I don't know if he was full of shit or not.

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metalsaber
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:36:23 AM

Originally Posted By BikerTrashXx4:

Originally Posted By metalsaber:
I think all of us have done this or seen someone flash their lights to warn drivers that there are cops up ahead.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/12/taking-liberties-bright-lights-big-trouble/
Initially he was cited for "improper flashing of high-beams". Ticket was later dismissed, but he's now filing a suit in FL.


"He has a definite different interpretation of the U.S. Constitution than I do,” said Thomas Ruskin. "And than most members of law enforcement.”

Ruskin is a former New York Police Department detective and current police advocate. He says flashing high beams is dangerous and clearly illegal.

"It's illegal because you're warning someone,” he explained. "It's the same thing as saying, 'run, here comes the cops,' You're obstructing a cop from doing his lawful duty.”

He said citizens do not have the right to interfere with a police action that is under way.

"He is aiding law-breakers,” said Ruskin. "He is warning people who are speeding to slow down. His intent is to impede the police.”





So Ruskin doesn't want people to slow down? Proof that speeding tickets are not for safety, merely a revenue generator.

+1

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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:36:25 AM
You forgot the "I Don't Care" option.

I think it depends on the state.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:36:54 AM
Your poll question and title are twisted.

Should it be illegal to warn police are ahead if u flash ur highbeams? No.

Is it illegal to flash your high beams at night regardless of why? Technically yes. If within 500 highbeams cannot be used. Is it enforced? Yes, but not for flashing.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:37:23 AM
Originally Posted By fatalerror113:

Originally Posted By Muerte:
Screw the police and thief many stupid laws they enforce .
Big Brother

So speed limits (set to help ensure that the traffic flows safely due to the design of the roadway) are "stupid"?




Since most of the speed limits are set artificially low....yes.
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metalsaber
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:37:31 AM

Originally Posted By Mazeman:
You forgot the "I Don't Care" option.

I think it depends on the state.

well should go off the thread title which is do you believe it should be illegal? Hoping most people can make up their minds and not vote present.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:38:10 AM
so then all of the websites and apps that show speedtraps are illegal?
metalsaber
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:38:17 AM

Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Your poll question and title are twisted.

Should it be illegal to warn police are ahead if u flash ur highbeams? No.

Is it illegal to flash your high beams at night regardless of why? Technically yes. If within 500 highbeams cannot be used. Is it enforced? Yes, but not for flashing.

I know but can't edit it now. Should be based on what the thread title asks.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:38:35 AM
Originally Posted By VBC:
No. If the goal of speed traps is to slow people down, it slowed people down.



If that's the goal instead of revenue, what's the big deal?
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:39:10 AM
Flashing headlights causes a denial in revenue for the police department.

By flashing your headlights, you are preventing the police officers from getting their paychecks, and perhaps endangering their ability to make it home safely that day.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:40:31 AM
Originally Posted By HermanSnerd:
I did it a month or so ago, and another cop coming from the opposite direction saw me flash
and pulled me over.

He said it was illegal in Tennessee to do ANYTHING that distracts another motorist
including flashing, yelling, or waving.

He gave me a verbal warning and let me go.

I don't know if he was full of shit or not.



Searched the Tennessee Code Annotated and found:

55-8-187. Obscene or patently offensive bumper stickers, window signs, etc., prohibited.

To avoid distracting other drivers and thereby reduce the likelihood of accidents arising from lack of attention or concentration, the display of obscene and patently offensive movies, bumper stickers, window signs or other markings on or in a motor vehicle that are visible to other drivers is prohibited and display of such materials shall subject the owner of the vehicle on which they are displayed, upon conviction, to a fine of fifty dollars ($50.00). "Obscene" or "patently offensive" has the meaning specified in § 39-17-901.

He's FOS.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:40:51 AM

Originally Posted By DangerJ:
Flashing headlights causes a denial in revenue for the police department.

By flashing your headlights, you are preventing the police officers from getting their paychecks, and perhaps endangering their ability to make it home safely that day.

If you prevented the cop from stopping a violent offender that might have killed the cop during a routine stop, aren't you saving his life?
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DangerJ
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:41:35 AM
Originally Posted By metalsaber:

Originally Posted By DangerJ:
Flashing headlights causes a denial in revenue for the police department.

By flashing your headlights, you are preventing the police officers from getting their paychecks, and perhaps endangering their ability to make it home safely that day.

If you prevented the cop from stopping a violent offender that might have killed the cop during a routine stop, aren't you saving his life?


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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:41:47 AM
[Last Edit: 10/13/2011 11:46:40 AM by Admiral_Crunch]
I don't just use them to warn of speed traps. I use them to warn of upcoming debris in the road, traffic accidents, parked emergency vehicles, etc. Anything that a driver needs to slow down for.
I use my headlights, but not my high beams. Using high-beams with close, oncoming traffic is illegal.

I believe the SCOTUS has ruled that warning other drivers of speed traps is protected free speech, as it should be.
Scratch that. Can't find anything about it. Still seems to be a state-by-state thing.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:42:26 AM
In my opinion as a former LE you can not site someone for trying to get others to comply with the law. This was my view on it as an LEO but others I worked with did not all agree.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:44:54 AM
Only if you know morse code
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:45:11 AM
Originally Posted By E5TOMHAV:
Originally Posted By packinheavy:
Originally Posted By VBC:
No. If the goal of speed traps is to slow people down, it slowed people down.



Exactly!


The only problem is that we all know that is not the goal...


Aye.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:46:48 AM
Originally Posted By fatalerror113:

Originally Posted By Muerte:
Screw the police and thief many stupid laws they enforce .
Big Brother

So speed limits (set to help ensure that the traffic flows safely due to the design of the roadway) are "stupid"?




If that were true and every roadway had its maximum safe speed posted and didn't fluctuate in certain spots, towns, etc. then you might have a point.
You know better. It is not about safety.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:51:13 AM
It seems like it would be difficult or impossible to prove intent. You could say that you inadvertently bumped the high beam switch. It's not illegal to actuate your high beams, is it?

They couldn't prove that you even had knowledge that there was a cop car at all.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:51:45 AM
Originally Posted By DangerJ:
Flashing headlights causes a denial in revenue for the police department.

By flashing your headlights, you are preventing the police officers from getting their paychecks, and perhaps endangering their ability to make it home safely that day.


I didnt realize the amount of tickets cops right is related to their paycheck.

I guess that is why unions are so against quotas.
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Posted: 10/13/2011 11:55:37 AM
Pretty sure it is illegal here - that does not mean it should be illegal.
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