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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 3/30/2001 12:08:17 PM EDT
I *may* have an extra 500 bucks coming my way. I may be getting a little premature, but I think I am going to buy a gun! WOOHOO. And I need y'all to tell me what you think I should get. I want: -.357 ruger 6" -FAL or L1A1 -AK or variant -some other handgun I do not own a .308, and that may be the caliber I go with. What is better, FAL fans, a FAL or L1A1? Or just give me an idea of another gun I havn't thought of.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 12:22:10 PM EDT
Buy what is most likely to be banned next.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 12:28:58 PM EDT
At $500, you may want to be careful what you choose in an FAL. Some are great, others are CRAP. other options - I think a nice Sig in .40 would be good. I like my .40 S&W Oly upper. Kool!!!!! Or you can get it in 9mm. or 10 mm or .45. How about a Ruger Redhawk????
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 12:31:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: I think a nice Sig in .40 would be good.
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Yeah. What he said.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 12:32:32 PM EDT
hmmmm... id say buy an imbel and one of those imbel parts sets at fnfal.com, if that dont suit ya id look at the SSR-85 AK's that global trades outta texas is putting out, those are supposed to be excellent.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 12:50:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 2:12:53 PM EDT
stubbs...i`m looking to get a fal also. all things considered, i would save up for a dsa, like garandman says...be careful. i`ve been looking at them for a couple years already, and have found some real questionable deals. you know what you could find for 500, is a decent garand, maybe from the cmp...otherwise, i`d look for one of those reconditioned high-cap glocks (nine) for a "blaster"....[heavy]
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 2:36:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2001 2:37:17 PM EDT by stubbs]
So what FALs & L1A1s are crap at [url]www.aimsurplus.com[/url], for example?
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 2:53:47 PM EDT
couldn`t get very many up for some reason. there are a number of these surplus places that piece together rifles from parts. reality is, you could get a good one. but you could also end up with junk. local store had century arms fal for 700, but they wouldn`t back it, rather wanted to sell mfg type warranty (questionable) my own problem, i will not spend 5 or 7 hundred for a questionable rifle. there are too many ripoffs out there. i would spend 1000 or more for a armalite, dsa, springfield, etc. etc. etc. but NEVER 700 for a century arms. my brother is ffl. he gives me many fliers of these types of companies. again, you CAN get a decent rifle. question is, are you willing to risk that much $ to find out???...[shotgun]
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 2:54:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By garandman: I think a nice Sig in .40 would be good.
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If you decide to buy a Sig handgun, buy a .40. That way you can buy a new barrel in .357 Sig and have two guns for almost the price of one. Aggie1
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 2:57:31 PM EDT
You know what i would do? get a argentine mauser for about 90 bucks, 2000 rounds of 8mm and have at it....put the rest in the bank, or have a huge summer party!!!!! B&G.....[frag]
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 3:04:36 PM EDT
I've seen the CETME's for $488, and I've heard good things about them so far, that's just hear say though as I don't own one. Something to consider anyway.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 3:45:04 PM EDT
A guy can only do so much by himself. Buy 6 $50 Turkish Mausers and 2800 rounds of 8mm ammo for when the sheeple wake up.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 7:19:25 PM EDT
No votes for the .357? So its looking like if I want to buy an FAL, I need to inspect it personally first. Great.
Link Posted: 3/30/2001 7:48:10 PM EDT
Stubbs, FALs are easy. All Hesse FALs suck. All FALs assembled at Century Arms on Federal Arms receivers suck. Imbel is a FN factory contract receiver, the only problem is most were built with crap kits for Century Arms and they suck. IAI built some Imbel kits on Imbel receivers and they are OK, a little worn looking in my opinion. The FALs offered by Entreprise Arms were the best for the money until recently. They are Austrian kits on Entreprise receivers. Very Nice. DSA recently offered a rifle that is a Austrian kit on a DSA receiver. This is now the best FAL for the money. Very, very nice. DSA also has the ALL DSA FAL, extremely nice and the best postban FAL available. Now for the bad news. You don't want any of the FALs in the $500.00 range, all nightmares, you will be pissed. The IAI FAL is ok but doesn't make sense when you can get the Entreprise or DSA Ausrtian kit gun for a few bucks more. The DSA or the Entreprise should be the only ones to consider. I think both are in the $800.00 range. Credit card the difference and you won't regret it. Postban FALs will not be around forever. Also mags and accessories are everywhere, cheap. New 20rd. FAL mags are about $15.00. This is a very nice, extremely accurate battle rifle. You could do much, much worse.
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 3:08:06 AM EDT
steyraug... passed on a canadian mil surplus a couple years ago. didn`t really know much about fal`s then (l1a1?) i`d say probably about 15-20 yrs old...any idea on mfg.?......[sniper]
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 3:18:41 AM EDT
Of course the other option is get an Armalite/Eagle Arms lower. There now you'v got the goodies/ and get the rest later, or !! Get teh Eagle Arms AR-10A4. list $999.95, you should be able to get one a little cheaper than that. so for a few extra $$$$, you get a new waranteed, unit. Remember good things come to those who wait. Easy for me to say I dont have any $$$ saved and am going to a gunshow tomorrow, just in case someone there has something I need.
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 9:03:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 10:29:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By black&green: steyraug... passed on a canadian mil surplus a couple years ago. didn`t really know much about fal`s then (l1a1?) i`d say probably about 15-20 yrs old...any idea on mfg.?......[sniper]
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So many "colonies" produce this arm, usually the inch pattern L1A1 or variant, that I cannot keep them straight. I was confining this subject to pastban 922r guns given the budget in question.
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 10:41:08 AM EDT
Forget all of the above and go for the group purchase its darn good deal... What do you need the weapon for What will you practice with more What ever you get ..practice practice practice...seek out others who use this particualr weapon for their knowledge ..learn everything you can about it...learn to take it apart and put it back together again... If you like wheelguns the GP100 is a great choice have seen some great deals on security sixs in exc condition for @200 bucks If I were on a limited budget and could only purchase one weapon it would be a short barreled rifle..one that had plenty of spare parts one that had been proven one that had lots of knowledgeable folks smithing and manufacturing one that had a big following cheap ammo and a great variety of configurations hmm sounds like AR-15
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 11:16:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2001 9:42:15 AM EDT by BusMaster007]
OK, here's my vote. I picked up a GP-100 in the polished stainless steel (GKGP-161); translates to the polished stainless steel, heavy lug 6"bbl. I put on a Hogue fingergroove rubber grip and put some "gold" accents on the model designation and Ruger logo. This is a fine handgun. I don't regret this purchase at all. The cost was within your specified budget. In fact, that day, I found a shoulder holster, side holster, two speed loaders and a few boxes of ammo, all for about $500.00. I took it to the range, and even the rangemaster liked the way it felt and shot, complimenting the factory trigger...made me feel pretty good. You may save some money by going with the standard blue finish or the regular stainless finsh. That's my little plan for YOUR money!
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 2:14:37 PM EDT
steyraug, so am i correct in assuming that it was probably better that i did not invest?...it is`nt really much better than the "mongrel" varieties (as far as what it MIGHT be) and wait to buy a known quality rifle....my next "major" purchase will most likely be a dsa....[sniper]
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 2:17:34 PM EDT
p.s. the inch pattern l1a1, a good one to have, no?.....
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 2:24:32 PM EDT
Get the new ArmaLite AR180B for $590. Takes AR15 mags, has polymer lower. Very nice for the bucks.
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 2:28:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By black&green: p.s. the inch pattern l1a1, a good one to have, no?.....
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L1A1 is a fine weapon, parts are not as plentiful and cost more. As a result the only L1A1s that interest me are prebans.
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 2:30:52 PM EDT
Sorry L G, i truly love the m15a2 but i get a bigger ****on with the 30 cal stuff....[heavy]
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 2:49:39 PM EDT
Black&green, I have just never cared for .308 probably cause I never liked the M14. Probably because it replaced M1 Garand, one of my all time favorites. All illogical, emotional reasons, I know. I have some Garands and a 30-06 bolt gun with heavy barrel, so I can reach out and touch someone if needed. Otherwise, .223/5.56 will take care of any other needs. For his $500 +/-, I figured a brand new ArmaLite would be a good buy, especially if it anywhere near as nice as the original 180's. Actually, I believe it will be even nicer than the originals, since it is an updated version, built by ArmaLite, and is where the 180 would be had it continued through the years, IMHO.
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 2:54:13 PM EDT
Buddy...i may get into a 180 myself some day....let me tell you which rifle gives me the BIGGEST ****on.........my m1 garand...i`m not bul**itting......B&G[heavy]
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 3:00:13 PM EDT
I'll throw in a little clarification on what SteyrAUG Said: 1. Century ASSEMBLES guns (regardless of the re-seller, most, if not all $500ish Stg-58 guns are Century guns). They take a receiver (IMBEL= Good, Hesse=bad) take a parts kit (Steyr made Stg-58) and put enough US parts to be legal. The problem is usually not in the parts kit (Steyr makes good stuff)--it is usually a little worn, but mechanically correct, and the problem is not usually in the receiver (assuming you get an IMBEL). The problem occurs when they make the US parts fit the gun. 2. So, you may get lucky with the Century guns (which are basically ALL the Stg-58 guns, unless they were specifically assembled, and usually marked so, by one of the FAL specialists--more on them below) if you get one that works and all the parts are in good shape. Unfortunately, by mail order, it is hard to see what your dealer will get when you order it and have it sent to him. 3. The IAI M-444 FAL guns use the same Stg-58 parts kits, an IMBEL receiver, but they don't put enough US parts into the gun to use any mags (you have to use US parts in the mag to be legal). Their cost is $750. 4. The DSA "parts" guns are built to their high standards, and dealer cost is $795, list is $995. I have seen and compared them to their SA-58 rifles (I have a Carbine and Standard) and there is very little difference, if any in the quality of the rifle. DSA receivers are as good as, or better than the IMBEL receivers. 5. A real gunsmith (AZEX arms, ARS, GG, etc.) can build the FAL for you for about $1000 +/-, depending on how much work and what finish you want. They use DSA or IMBEL receivers and parts kits. 6. You can, if you look hard enough find DSA factory (SA-58) guns as low as $1000 used. If you can find the Carbine, it handles GREAT!! 7. If you are on a REAL tight budget, and won't be able to save much more, get the Century Stg-58 gun on an IMBEL receiver (if you get the Hesse, return it). Worst case, it is worth the $225 a receiver goes for and the $250+ for a parts kit (good ones are getting harder to find for a reasonable price). Derek Huffman (AZEX Arms) was/is? offering a service for $225 where he fixed any problems (re-fitted/replaced US parts) and Parked the rifle. The reports on the FAL board were that the sow's ear became a silk purse. The L1A1's are probably built to the same standards of the Stg-58's that Century assembles--I have not seen one first hand, so I cannot be sure. Aside from the finish and any wear on the gun (parts kit) the usual problems with Century guns come from the assembly and fitting of the US parts--I would expect it to be the same for the Stg and the L1A1's. AFARR PS--I would skip the CETME guns, they are supposedly better built, but the mags are expensive for them.
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 3:02:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/31/2001 3:03:13 PM EDT by LARRYG]
B&G, I understand completely. Love my Garands. One has NM barrel and op rod and B Square mount and BSA scope on a WWII Springfield reciever. The barrel and op rod were already done when I got, so don't yell sacrilege at me. I figured that since it was already done, I would add the scope. I have two other original Springfields, produced during WWII. I got the bolt in 30-06 since I have a bunch of 30-06 for my Garands and this way I don't have to keep up with another caliber. [:\]
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 3:06:27 PM EDT
you know what`s another rush? the 2a enfield...i could sit and pump out cheapo surplus all day (and do) if you had a bad m14 (sorry) don`t frown on other 308`s. one of my classmates, at the range recently (had my m15) who is a usmc nam vet, got a m1a last year. he really hesitated on shooting the armalite (he said he gave up a m16 in nam to keep his m14) he did, and guess what, another armalite convert. he even said that now, maybe he should have checked out a little more. personally, i was ready to go m1a, but opted for ar10. for one thing...right place right time...not sorry for any of it...point is, you have to enjoy what you have. i have " sacrificed" on what some would feel are really great rifles, because they did noy work for me...not afraid to take a hit if it ain`t workin`...(kind of like a divorce)....B&G....[heavy]
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 3:14:12 PM EDT
L G...one of my brothers is a post commander of a vfw...thier garands (parade rifles) sit in a rack in thier board room. once in a while, i go up there with him and guess what happens whenever i get near those rifles?... i only have 1 garand, and i am skeptical about investing any money on it...HOWEVER...if i could get him to help me(somehow?) get a top quality example, like the ones they have, hmmmm.....[sniper]
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 3:14:29 PM EDT
B&G, I didn't get a bad M14, just did not like them as they replaced my favorite, the Garand. You know how that is, follow a legend and people don't like you. Like I said, emotional and illogical. I did not like the M16 much because of it's reputation for jamming, but I found when I was in (69-73) that if you cleaned them, they were fine and many years later it and it's AR15 variants have become very refined, accurate, and reliable. Have you checked out the new 180 in the catalog, the one that you open with acrobat from ArmaLite's web page?
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 3:19:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AFARR: I'll throw in a little clarification on what SteyrAUG Said: 1. Century ASSEMBLES guns (regardless of the re-seller, most, if not all $500ish Stg-58 guns are Century guns). They take a receiver (IMBEL= Good, Hesse=bad) take a parts kit (Steyr made Stg-58) and put enough US parts to be legal. The problem is usually not in the parts kit (Steyr makes good stuff)--it is usually a little worn, but mechanically correct, and the problem is not usually in the receiver (assuming you get an IMBEL). The problem occurs when they make the US parts fit the gun.
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Correction #1 Century uses mostly parts from retired guns, that have seen a full service life.
3. The IAI M-444 FAL guns use the same Stg-58 parts kits, an IMBEL receiver, but they don't put enough US parts into the gun to use any mags (you have to use US parts in the mag to be legal). Their cost is $750.
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Correction #2 They are NOT Steyr kits, but Imbel kits on Imbel receivers.
7. If you are on a REAL tight budget, and won't be able to save much more, get the Century Stg-58 gun on an IMBEL receiver (if you get the Hesse, return it).
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Correction #3 If the above is all you can afford buy a different gun entirely. These suck, you will regret it.
The L1A1's are probably built to the same standards of the Stg-58's that Century assembles--
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Correction #4 Only if built by Century or Hesse. Crap companies make crap guns of all variants and good companies make good guns of all variants.
PS--I would skip the CETME guns, they are supposedly better built, but the mags are expensive for them.
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I too would skip these. The mags are more expensive than FAL mags but not more than 91 mags. The problem with these guns is they were assembled for Century Arms and use Special Weapons "cast" receivers. My apologies to AFAAR, no I don't have it out for you.
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 3:23:30 PM EDT
yes i have been following the 180 history somewhat.(what was that model # in 308?..prototype ) anyway, my "problem" with the fal started with the time i passed on the canadian surplus one. since then i`ve been lookin` and readin` and it`s got me goin.....i guess you could piece together any of the surplus rifles, but how good would they be? what frosts me is when i remember what you and i could have bought them for when we were young ( if only i had some smarts then) remember when 03 springfields were $49 and every shop between here and syracuse had three or four of them???...[grenade]
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 3:24:44 PM EDT
If you haven't already, you should save a little more cash and buy the AR-15.com rifle. If that is not an option, you can get a really nice used SIG for less than $500.00. a snail... crawling along the edge... of a strait razor... Kurtz
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 3:27:38 PM EDT
B&G, the .308 version was the AR16.
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 3:37:48 PM EDT
Buy an AK. The ammo is CHEAP, the mags are CHEAP, and Gun Smoke has a high quality Russian made(with the required American-made parts for legality) version for $595. You can't beat it. See their ad on their forum in Industry Forums here on AR15.com.
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 4:30:49 PM EDT
Steyr is pretty much correct again (if I am wrong, I would rather be corrected than be left ignorant!!): "Correction #1 Century uses mostly parts from retired guns, that have seen a full service life." Lately, the amount of wear is definitely greater. When Century first started to build the Stg-58 gun, there were plenty of Excellent quality parts kits around. Now, they are few and far between. "Correction #2 They are NOT Steyr kits, but Imbel kits on Imbel receivers." Sorry, my Brain Fart. I knew that they were IMBEL guns (possibly South African contract guns--the majority of them were IMBEL built also). "Correction #3 If the above is all you can afford buy a different gun entirely. These suck, you will regret it." I will (somewhat) contest this one--I have a couple of DSA's, and an SAR-48. The Centuries I have seen are nowhere near as nice as any of those, BUT, I would be very hard pressed to find any .308 gun for anywhere close to the $$ the Century guns go for (especially considering what a gun and 10 mags run, compared to other guns that take high cap mags). The gun may suck (and some of them do!!), but it can normally be fixed up to be much nicer by a competent gunsmith. This is probably more a tribute to the excellent design of the gun than anything Century did. "Correction #4 Only if built by Century or Hesse. Crap companies make crap guns of all variants and good companies make good guns of all variants." Agreed--at it's best Century is spotty on quality. That is why I cannot say specifically about the L1A1 (if they are Century built). One thing I will say for Century--without them, there are thousands of people who would not have been able to afford an FAL. My first autoloading rifle was a Century Sporter L1A1 (since sold to get the SAR-48). It worked, and worked well. Not accurate, and pretty damn ugly with the thumbhole it had to have, but I got it for $300 at the time. It got me interested in autoloaders (see some of my pics in other of Steyr's posts for some of the guns I have now). PS--Steyr, I have been occasionally checking out your pointed (and well deserved, I might add) barbs to Mr. Toad--they are always interesting reading. I was fortunate. I had the "pre" order form for the SW-5 (about 2 years + before he ACTUALLY went into production, if I recall correctly). I decided against risking my $700 on an unfunded (or, rather funded with customer deposits) company. I am glad I did--I wound up scraping up $600 more and getting an HK SR-9 that showed up at my dealer's. Traded that one in on the HK 91 (since traded on the FNC). I like the HK guns (the quality of SW guns doesn't compare). I only traded off the 91 because I bought an HK 94 (for eventual conversion). AFARR
Link Posted: 3/31/2001 4:51:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AFARR: PS--Steyr, I have been occasionally checking out your pointed (and well deserved, I might add) barbs to Mr. Toad--they are always interesting reading. I was fortunate. I had the "pre" order form for the SW-5 (about 2 years + before he ACTUALLY went into production, if I recall correctly). I decided against risking my $700 on an unfunded (or, rather funded with customer deposits) company. I am glad I did--I wound up scraping up $600 more and getting an HK SR-9 that showed up at my dealer's. Traded that one in on the HK 91 (since traded on the FNC). I like the HK guns (the quality of SW guns doesn't compare). I only traded off the 91 because I bought an HK 94 (for eventual conversion). AFARR
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Now those are some good guns, with the exception of the SW. But for $700.00 I could see a SW as a platform for a FA conversion. If you got lucky enough for the German parts to fit that is.
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