Thanks everyone. Keep on them!

CNN should be ashamed of themselves. When all this finally comes to a head, I hope those in the MSM who have worked to cover this up get exposed as the asshats they are.

Thank you!

Nice edit job, CNN. I can't say that I'm surprised by it, though.

Why is it unlisted?

It's our discovery - and I don't feel like becoming an enemy of the State for exposing CNN's little edit job.



People are welcome to copy and put up elsewhere publicly.



The outrageous thing is, that Anderson Cooper calls this portion of his show "Keeping them Honest".



Too honest CNN?  Did this not fit your agenda?





 

Just did....thanks !!

'03

Just a thought put into the form of a question. Given what we know now about "Fast & Furies" was it state sponsored terrorism?

ETA: hard to define "state" since congress didn't approve of this, if the WH did I suppose it could be.







 

Given that the president has done nothing to aid in the investigation and looks to be impeding it, and congress or the senate as a hole are not pushing to investigate, would it be wrong to call it at minimum, state condoned terrorism? My thought is, if you can't get them to do what is right because it is the right thing to do, then try to shame them into doing it because of how bad the act was.

If you're not with us, you're against us.

http://townhall.com/columnists/katiepavlich/2011/09/30/bombshell_doj_considering_elimination_of_atf/page/full/preview

Multiple sources, including sources from ATF, DOJ  and Congressional offices have said there is a white paper circulating within the Department of Justice, outlining the essential elimination of ATF. According to sources, the paper outlines the firing of at least 450 ATF agents in an effort to conduct damage control as Operation Fast and Furious gets uglier and as election day 2012 gets closer. 

If you can't cover it up and make it go away inside DOJ and ATF, eliminate ATF and lay all the blame there.





Not that I am sorry to see them go, but this can not rest until some motherfuckers are in jail... specifically Holder at the very least.




 
 

What we need to get rid of are the leadership, FTB and the ATF Legal department.

Everything else is cruft.  The top source of the ATF's corrupt culture, the FTB and the legal weasels that have crafted so many fucked-up interpretations have got to go.  They don't change when presidents change.

That doesn't satisfy the issue of who is responsible for this.



Perhaps their vain minds don't understand their solution doesn't answer the questions, the questions that will be asked at every murder scene in Mexico and border States - who is responsible for this ongoing killing? - and who is responsible for the end-around attack on the 2nd Amendment?



Who?



Until this is exposed, I don't care what they do to sweep the ATF under the rug.



In fact, go ahead and take away careers from hundreds of good agents - let's see what they have to say and offer in the way of info once their last reason to STFU is gone.





 

If the DOJ and White House move to eliminate the ATF wouldn't that just raise more red flags and give congressional investigators more reasons to get to the bottom of this?

I see an opportunity to recruit whistle blowers.

Anyhow... Laws need to change, and higher-ups need to be prosecuted. "Eliminating" the ATF will just make the "enemy" less tangible, and will just mix the old shit with a fresh load of shit.

I don't see this as a "If you're not with us, you're against us" game, but as a good against evil cause. Murder and treason are no game!

I think there was a link here somewhere of her talking about this?

Yep, on page 156.

Originally Posted By Sirveaux:
You guys want another bombshell?

Katie Pavlich last night on Cam & Company said there is serious discussion by DOJ of abolishing the ATF - and paper circulating - as a means of damage control - throwing the entire ATF under the bus.

Transcript of the relevant portion and links to the audio here.

(I searched the posts since the show aired and saw nothing, so I'll assume this isn't a dupe.)


Maybe, maybe not, but the budget is taking a hit and there is some kind of transfer of explosives investigation to the FBI?
From CleanUpATF:

KatiePavlich Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 1

Posted 22 September 2011 - 11:32 AM
There is word from multiple congressional and ATF sources that a white paper is floating around DOJ, outlining the essential dismantling of ATF, at least the firing of 450 agents, in light of Operation Fast and Furious. Any word here about this?
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
avatar
Regular


Group: Members
Posts: 64


Posted 22 September 2011 - 07:15 PM
There has been talk of such a report for some time now, and it probably exists in some form. It's not like the topic hasn't been discussed, so it would not be surprising that somebody wrote something up. It is my impression that the pending loss of some 400 or more ATF positions is related to transfer of some of ATF's Explosives functions to the FBI, something that has long been in the works. It is not my impression that this is related to Fast and Furious.

But with respect, I believe you should also consider more tangible things like Appropriations language, and the fact that neither the House nor the Senate Committees on Appropriation have raised any issues about abolishing ATF. The Explosives component has been a matter of controversy with the FBI, but that situation was finally recently resolved.

Consider Senate Report No. 112-78, which accompanies the recent Senate-passed Justice appropriations bill. It contains no language about abolishing or reorganizing ATF or even studying that. It does mention Fast & Furious, but a read on the language indicates the Committee is a lot more interested in things like ATF developing NIBIN. You can see the entire report at
http://www.gpo.gov/f...-112srpt78.pdf; the Appropriations language for ATF is on pages 59 and 60, and I've copied it here in its entirety.

*Snip*
59

BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES
SALARIES AND EXPENSES
Appropriations, 2011 ........................................................................... $1,112,542,000
Budget estimate, 2012 ........................................................................... 1,147,295,000
Committee recommendation ........................................................................ 1,090,292,000

The Committee�s recommendation provides $1,090,292,000 for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives [ATF].
The recommendation is $22,250,000 below the fiscal year 2011 enacted level and $57,003,000 below the budget request.

The ATF�s mission is to reduce violent crime, prevent terrorism, and protect the public. ATF reduces the criminal use of firearms
and illegal firearms trafficking, and assists other Federal, State, and local law enforcement agencies in reducing crime and violence.
ATF investigates bombing and arson incidents and provides for public safety by reducing the criminal misuse of and trafficking in
explosives, combating acts of arson and arson-for-profit schemes, and removing safety hazards caused by improper and unsafe storage
of explosive materials.

United States-Mexico Firearms Trafficking.�The Committee continues to support ATF�s varied efforts to combat weapon trafficking
on the border. While the Committee is concerned by allegations that ATF may have mismanaged a U.S.-Mexico border operation
known as Fast and Furious, the Committee believes that the Justice Department�s Office of Inspector General, to which the investigation
of this matter has been referred by the Attorney General, will fulfill its oversight duties by conducting a thorough investigation.

The Committee also notes that Fast and Furious is but a small part of ATF�s extensive operations along the Southwest border
and should not detract from the Bureau�s efforts to protect Americans from illegal firearms trafficking, gun violence, and parallel
drug and human trafficking across the U.S.-Mexico border and into the Nation�s interior.

Beginning in fiscal year 2012 and thereafter, the ATF shall provide the Committee with annual data on the number of firearms
recovered by the Government of Mexico and traced through ATF that were manufactured in or imported into the United States prior
to being recovered in Mexico. Additionally, beginning in fiscal year 2012 and thereafter, the ATF shall provide the Committee with annual
data on the total number of firearms recovered by the Government of Mexico and traced through ATF.


60
Violent Crime Impact Teams.�The Committee continues to support the ATF�s Violent Crime Impact Team [VCIT] initiative to pursue
violent criminals and reduce the occurrence of homicides and firearms-related violent crime through the use of geographic targeting,
proactive investigation, and prosecution of those responsible. The VCIT uses a multi-agency approach and works closely
with State and local law enforcement to identify, target, disrupt, arrest, and prosecute violent criminals.

Conversion of Records.�The Committee recognizes the need for TF to complete the conversion of tens of thousands of existing
Federal firearms dealer out-of-business records from film to digital images at the ATF National Tracing Center [NTC]. Once the outof-
business records are fully converted, search time for these records will be reduced significantly. The Committee urges the ATF
to continue the conversion and integration of these records.

National Integrated Ballistic Information Network.�The Committee continues to support the National Integrated Ballistic Information
Network [NIBIN], including significant investment made by State and local law enforcement partners to build the current
NIBIN database. The Committee believes ATF should move expeditiously to ensure that ballistic-imaging technology is routinely refreshed,
upgraded, and deployed to State and local law enforcement. The Committee urges ATF to prioritize the upgrading and replacement of aging ballistic imaging equipment in its fiscal year 2012 operating plan and in future budget requests. ATF should ensure upgrades and replacements maximize and protect the resources invested by State and local law enforcement.

National Center for Explosives Training and Research [NCETR].�Preventing the criminal use of explosives is one of the core missions of the ATF, and NCETR serves as the Bureau�s Center of Excellence for explosives research, training and intelligence. The Committee recognizes the state-of-the-art facilities housed at NCETR, having invested considerable resources between fiscal years 2004 and 2011 to that effort, and believes that the administration should provide sufficient resources for the Center to fulfill its mission, as initially envisioned. Furthermore, the Committee believes
that several options to further interagency collaboration and training exist and merit exploration. Therefore, the Committee requests
that the Department of Justice produce, not later than 120 days after enactment of this bill, an NCETR Five-Year Plan that will describe the following: the mission of the facility with respect to research, training, and intelligence; the personnel and budgetary authority required to execute that mission; national, State, and local initiatives to maximize training throughput at NCETR; and opportunities for interagency collaboration on research and intelligence efforts using the NCETR facility.

What happens when, after building a ballistics database, they realize every murder has 86,738 matches? (often pointing to ATF sponsored/walked guns)
I personally think this ballistics fingerprinting stuff has a bunch of non-science behind it.
Will they require every gun to be test fired with every manufacturer of ammo?  Imagine the insane amount of money to put that together - and the results will be far below what they expect.
Get back to finding the accomplices to the ongoing murders.






 

http://jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=102298801&JobTitle=OVERSIGHT+ATTORNEY&q=attorney&where=&x=0&y=0&brd=3876&vw=b&FedEmp=N&FedPub=Y&AVSDM=2011-09-08+09%3a30%3a00

Is that your next gig, Nolo?

Oversight Atty for the House Committee on Natural Resources?

 

But then you wouldn't be able to provide us with your witty commentary

Oh how naked will be the sometimes nude.



Imagine the dirt Nolo will be able to turn over.

Can they eliminate the ATF without Congressional approval?  That involves transfering $$ as appropriated by Congress; that's a HUGE foul in the DOD, I'm assuming in DOJ as well.

 
 

Aha!



I knew it!

It goes all the way to the White House. I've been saying this for a while as well.

Over on the DDT the ATF facebook group, there's a whole folder of "the players" with faces and names of the villains and the heroes of this disgusting abuse of power.

http://www.facebook.com/groups/234204206631969/

What's the Over/Under on a Special Prosecutor by New Years?

CBS has picked it up.  That leaves CNN and MSNBC.

I guess I didn't use enough bold, font size, caps, and OMGWTFBB!Q111!!!11!!


http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1145029_ATF_Gunwalker__ATF_Agent_initial_purchaser__bypasses_4473_p157____ATFReport_on_twitter_.html&page=155#i30166055

Link to audio here:
http://thepatriotperspective.wordpress.com/2011/09/23/gunwalker-update-rumors-atf-to-be-abolished/

White House sends Hill Fast & Furious docs, but withholds some
The White House sent another installment of documents to Congress on Friday detailing White House staffers' knowledge about the controversial "Operation Fast & Furious" gunrunning probe run by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives.

However, the chief counsel to President Barack Obama, Kathryn Ruemmler, indicated that the White House was withholding an unspecified number of internal e-mails exchanged among three National Security Staff aides.

"These internal NSS emails are not included in the enclosed documents because the [Executive Office of the President] has significant confidentiality interests in its internal communications," Ruemmler wrote in a letter to House Oversight & Government Reform Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) and Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa).


http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/0911/White_House_sends_Hill_Fast__Furious_docs_but_withholds_some.html\

And now the long rumored OP  "wide receiver" is confirmed....

CBS:New Fast and Furious docs released by White House
Lots of document links in the story.
WH_F&F_000001-000102_To_Hill.pdf

 

A Tucson based OP we touched on back in March or so.   Possibly predates F&F and even the Obama Admin.

http://onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com/2011/06/operation-wide-receiver.html

Caution: This one has a picture of a bloody body, we have seen it before but I wanted to warn the squeemish...

http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/03/robert-farago/cbs-atf-enabled-thousands-of-guns-smuggled-into-mexico/

The white house just released a bunch of documents connecting them directly to this ordeal.










 

There is just no freakin' way Zero and Holder did not know about this....



"According to the article, Jim and Sarah Brady visited Capital Hill on March 30, the 30th anniversary of the assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan; to push for a ban on "large magazines."

From page 55 of 102 :


Maybe they should of stopped the guns from going to Mexico IF they wanted to prosecute the straw buyers.

This is the key. It shows WHY they would do something so "felony stupid".

It needs to be integrated into the coverage so the average guy can put 2 and 2 together.

I wonder why it hasn't happened yet?

I've been following this thread since it started. I never thought it would get to this point. All I can say is wow.

What comes out in the future will be very interesting...

So Mr. O'Reilly says, the info won't leave NSS, then the white house has some " items it won't release". From page 51



Mr. O'Reilly should have briefed the President. (I bet he did!)

Mr. O'Reilly was more than just a "staffer" on the National security Staff. His title is Director, North American Affairs.

^ What is "Wicked One"?

BTW, it's notable that some of the photos in the recent information release confirm that the .50 cal's that were sold weren't all Barretts - that's a ma deuce, my friends.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20114184-10391695.html

Members of the Congressional Oversight Committee are probably asking the same thing,