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Remyrw
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Posted: 8/7/2012 6:31:08 AM
I find their continued attempts to argue that it was a Pre-Obama program hysterical. Once you're running the show, any operations that continue are yours, you own it, you are responsible for it. Whether the previous administration is ALSO responsible is another issue entirely and does not get you off the hook. All you do by pointing the finger at them is say, "I know it was a horrible thing and I know what happened well enough to know WHEN it started." Combined with not turning over any and all documentation related to it you are pretty clearly showing your own guilt as well.

It's like the little kids who do something wrong and then try to excuse it by saying their older sibling did it first. While that may or may not be true, it has nothing to do with your own guilt. In fact, your admission that you knew it was wrong and proceeded to not only cover it up but then continue with it makes you twice as guilty as the first group.
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Posted: 8/7/2012 5:20:33 PM
From an Oversight Link on Facebook
Fast and Furious whistleblower resolves retaliation claim with government

An ATF agent turned whistleblower on the Fast and Furious scandal has resolved a retaliation claim with the government through a mediation program, according to the U.S. Office of Special Counsel.

Peter Forcelli, one of the employees at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives who blew the whistle on Operation “Fast and Furious” testified before the Congress’ Committee on Oversight and Government Reform last June. Forcelli was assigned to the Phoenix field office, the center of the scandal that allowed guns to be sold in the hopes of making a bigger case.
More at link.
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alphajaguars
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Posted: 8/7/2012 9:33:14 PM
Don't think it's connected, but this is my hometown.


Three charged with weapons trafficking in wake of Sprague Street raid

By: JOHN HINTON | Winston-Salem Journal
Published: August 07, 2012
» Comments | Post a Comment
Three Winston-Salem residents have been indicted on federal weapon charges in connection with a raid by federal authorities July 24 at a house on East Sprague Street.

Angel Medel Lorenzo, Ramiro Alejandro Garcia Roman and Incensia Medel Banos were charged with smuggling and attempting to smuggle firearms, ammunition and accessories from Winston-Salem to Mexico, violating federal law, according to indictments filed in U.S. District Court in Greensboro.

During the raid, agents found 17 firearms, various kinds of ammunition and accessories for the firearms, a federal document says. The firearms were wrapped in plastic and black electrical tape to conceal them from X-ray scanners at the U.S. and Mexican border.

Link for more info
The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them.
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UtahShotgunner
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Posted: 8/7/2012 10:41:49 PM
Originally Posted By alphajaguars:
Don't think it's connected, but this is my hometown.


Three charged with weapons trafficking in wake of Sprague Street raid

By: JOHN HINTON | Winston-Salem Journal
Published: August 07, 2012
» Comments | Post a Comment
Three Winston-Salem residents have been indicted on federal weapon charges in connection with a raid by federal authorities July 24 at a house on East Sprague Street.

Angel Medel Lorenzo, Ramiro Alejandro Garcia Roman and Incensia Medel Banos were charged with smuggling and attempting to smuggle firearms, ammunition and accessories from Winston-Salem to Mexico, violating federal law, according to indictments filed in U.S. District Court in Greensboro.

During the raid, agents found 17 firearms, various kinds of ammunition and accessories for the firearms, a federal document says. The firearms were wrapped in plastic and black electrical tape to conceal them from X-ray scanners at the U.S. and Mexican border.

Link for more info


Oh shit, the secret is out now!
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hugh1
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Posted: 8/7/2012 11:24:04 PM
Originally Posted By UtahShotgunner:
Originally Posted By alphajaguars:
Don't think it's connected, but this is my hometown.


Three charged with weapons trafficking in wake of Sprague Street raid

By: JOHN HINTON | Winston-Salem Journal
Published: August 07, 2012
» Comments | Post a Comment
Three Winston-Salem residents have been indicted on federal weapon charges in connection with a raid by federal authorities July 24 at a house on East Sprague Street.

Angel Medel Lorenzo, Ramiro Alejandro Garcia Roman and Incensia Medel Banos were charged with smuggling and attempting to smuggle firearms, ammunition and accessories from Winston-Salem to Mexico, violating federal law, according to indictments filed in U.S. District Court in Greensboro.

During the raid, agents found 17 firearms, various kinds of ammunition and accessories for the firearms, a federal document says. The firearms were wrapped in plastic and black electrical tape to conceal them from X-ray scanners at the U.S. and Mexican border.

Link for more info


Oh shit, the secret is out now!
You beat me to it.

LadyDeath
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:03:32 AM
Originally Posted By hugh1:
Originally Posted By UtahShotgunner:
Originally Posted By alphajaguars:
Don't think it's connected, but this is my hometown.


Three charged with weapons trafficking in wake of Sprague Street raid

By: JOHN HINTON | Winston-Salem Journal
Published: August 07, 2012
» Comments | Post a Comment
Three Winston-Salem residents have been indicted on federal weapon charges in connection with a raid by federal authorities July 24 at a house on East Sprague Street.

Angel Medel Lorenzo, Ramiro Alejandro Garcia Roman and Incensia Medel Banos were charged with smuggling and attempting to smuggle firearms, ammunition and accessories from Winston-Salem to Mexico, violating federal law, according to indictments filed in U.S. District Court in Greensboro.

During the raid, agents found 17 firearms, various kinds of ammunition and accessories for the firearms, a federal document says. The firearms were wrapped in plastic and black electrical tape to conceal them from X-ray scanners at the U.S. and Mexican border.

Link for more info


Oh shit, the secret is out now!
You beat me to it.



I'm stocking up on electrical tape!!!

LD
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15jonshoot
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Posted: 8/8/2012 4:25:09 AM
[Last Edit: 8/8/2012 4:30:14 AM by 15jonshoot]
Originally Posted By alphajaguars:
Don't think it's connected, but this is my hometown.

Link for more info


Remember, ATF went on an image boosting campaign to counter F&F. They wanted stories they could tout so as to deflect news of F&F.

ETA, had a hard time with the link. Kept getting 404 page not found. Put in the www2jounalnow.com and found the article.
Noticed this towards the end of the article:

Winston-Salem police helped the FBI carry out a search warrant at the house. Agents with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security also were at the scene.

Randall Galyon, an assistant U.S. attorney, declined to comment on the charges.

Police Chief Scott Cunningham said that the federal investigation was effective.
alphajaguars
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Posted: 8/8/2012 6:37:26 AM
Originally Posted By 15jonshoot:
Originally Posted By alphajaguars:
Don't think it's connected, but this is my hometown.

Link for more info


Remember, ATF went on an image boosting campaign to counter F&F. They wanted stories they could tout so as to deflect news of F&F.

ETA, had a hard time with the link. Kept getting 404 page not found. Put in the www2jounalnow.com and found the article.
Noticed this towards the end of the article:

Winston-Salem police helped the FBI carry out a search warrant at the house. Agents with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security also were at the scene.

Randall Galyon, an assistant U.S. attorney, declined to comment on the charges.

Police Chief Scott Cunningham said that the federal investigation was effective.


Police Chief Scott Cunningham is a moron. I listened to him speak at a City Council meeting dealing with some new CCW laws passed by the state, and let's just say he doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.
The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them.
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15jonshoot
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Posted: 8/8/2012 7:39:29 AM
Originally Posted By alphajaguars:

Police Chief Scott Cunningham is a moron. I listened to him speak at a City Council meeting dealing with some new CCW laws passed by the state, and let's just say he doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.



Yeah, the quote reeked of back scratching politics when I read it.
I'd not be surprised to see the guy has bigger political ambitions.
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Posted: 8/8/2012 7:57:57 AM
When is the OIG report coming out? The election is less than three months away if they don't get this out soon they won't have time to let this scandal reach it's climax before the election. Is anyone else getting a bad feeling about the way this is going too? They released a damning first report with all kinds of evidence to back it up and the MSM just glossed over it and ran spin to protect this administration. What more is it going to take to get them to cover this the way it should be?
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Posted: 8/8/2012 8:25:12 AM
[Last Edit: 8/8/2012 8:25:30 AM by sbhaven]
Haven't seen any more news on the excluded documents list that was supposed to be generated and turned over to the committee after Holder/Obama invoked executive privilege on the documents Issa and the committee were asking for. Has such a list been turned over? What happens if Holder/Obama don't turn over the list (stalling tactic), does the claim of Executive Privilege become null and void at that point?
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Posted: 8/8/2012 8:48:11 AM
Lanny Breuer is going to be giving a presentation on ethics at the Park Cities Hilton in Dallas on October 5th. Think he'll be telling us what he learned from Fast & Furious?
miker84
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Posted: 8/8/2012 9:44:26 AM
Originally Posted By scottedward58:
When is the OIG report coming out? The election is less than three months away if they don't get this out soon they won't have time to let this scandal reach it's climax before the election. Is anyone else getting a bad feeling about the way this is going too? They released a damning first report with all kinds of evidence to back it up and the MSM just glossed over it and ran spin to protect this administration. What more is it going to take to get them to cover this the way it should be?


Rumor has it that the IG report will be out Friday or Monday.
iScream
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Posted: 8/8/2012 10:10:45 AM
Originally Posted By scottedward58:
When is the OIG report coming out? The election is less than three months away if they don't get this out soon they won't have time to let this scandal reach it's climax before the election. Is anyone else getting a bad feeling about the way this is going too? They released a damning first report with all kinds of evidence to back it up and the MSM just glossed over it and ran spin to protect this administration. What more is it going to take to get them to cover this the way it should be?


I fear it's not gonna be noticed by average joe on the street unless Holder is actually arrested and an easy to understand case is laid out. Or, something serious sticks to BHO, causing Democrats to denounce him.

This thing is so complicated that those of us following it daily can't keep up with all the pieces. If it's just a PR battle fought in the media, eyes are gonna keep glazing over and the MSM is still going to dismiss it as partisan stuff, regardless of how serious the evidence is.

Something sensational needs to happen.
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Posted: 8/8/2012 12:45:11 PM
Report: ATF gun part of plan to kill Juarez police chief Julián Leyzaola

A weapon tied to "Operation Fast and Furious" was seized in Tijuana in connection with a drug cartel's conspiracy to kill the police chief of Tijuana, Baja California, who later became the Juárez police chief, according to a U.S. government report.

The firearm was found Feb. 25, 2010, during an arrest of a criminal cell associated with Teodoro "El Teo" García Simental and Raydel "El Muletas" López Uriarte, allies of the Sinaloa cartel.

http://www.elpasotimes.com/news/ci_21243298/report-atf-gun-part-plan-kill-police-chief?refresh=no

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Posted: 8/8/2012 1:31:04 PM
[Last Edit: 8/8/2012 1:40:44 PM by Everrest]
The DOJ IG going to protect whistle-blowers.
FoxNews: Justice announces new whistleblower post in wake of 'Furious'

The Justice Department's inspector general has created a new position to help protect department whistleblowers and educate staff about them –– a move that comes in the wake of Operation Fast and Furious.

The "Whistleblower Ombudsman" is believed to be one of the first such positions in the federal government, and its announcement comes one day after a whistleblower in the "Furious" scandal reached an agreement with the U.S. government over claims of retaliation against him.

Inspector General Michael Horowitz, who was sworn in three months ago, said he has already "seen first-hand how whistleblowers have advanced (his office's) efforts to address wasteful and improper spending, improve the Department's operations, and protect the public's safety."

The Whistleblower Ombudsman will focus on training department employees about how colleagues who come forward improve "the effectiveness and efficiency" of the department, and educating department employees about legal protections for whistleblowers and the possible repercussions of retaliation against them, a press release said. The ombudsman will also be responsible for monitoring investigations of alleged retaliation.

A senior official in the inspector general's official has been tapped for the position.

A spokesman for the inspector general's office said the new ombudsman position is "not a direct result of Fast and Furious," noting that legislation aimed at protecting whistleblowers included mention of such a position. The spokesman said "a number" of recent cases led Horowitz to determine the position should be created now.

But the timing comes amid several Fast and Furious developments. On Tuesday, the U.S. Special Counsel's office, which mediates cases of whistleblower retaliation, announced that Peter Forcelli with the Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives bureau had "successfully resolved his case" of alleged retaliation.
More at link.
ETA: Orginal article for WSJ WSJ:
WSJ copy of the DOJ statement PDF

Robert Storch, a federal prosecutor formerly in the U.S. Attorney’s office in Albany, N.Y., has joined Mr. Horowitz’s office as counselor and will serve in the ombudsperson post.
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Everrest
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Posted: 8/8/2012 2:53:58 PM
David Codrea's in depth analysis of the DOJ's Ombudsman announcement:
WarOnGunsBlogspot: Here to Serve you!
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miker84
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Posted: 8/8/2012 2:58:11 PM
[Last Edit: 8/8/2012 3:04:11 PM by miker84]
<<<<Slow Clap>>>>

Now DOJ can shut them up before Congress hears about it.


ETA....This sounds like an Action Item from a finding in the IG report, so Justice must be done with their review of it.
Everrest
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Posted: 8/8/2012 3:23:52 PM
Originally Posted By miker84:
<<<<Slow Clap>>>>

Now DOJ can shut them up before Congress hears about it.


ETA....This sounds like an Action Item from a finding in the IG report, so Justice must be done with their review of it.


This is a new post within the DOJ OIG office. Which means the OIG is covering for their own mistakes in how they conducted the investigation. It's almost like the OIG got caught releasing info from the whistleblowers to the DOJ. . Sounds like http://www.osc.gov/ took somebody to the wood shed.
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Posted: 8/8/2012 4:13:20 PM
Trying to beat the election delays?
WaPost: Darrell Issa wants inspectors general to loop in Congress on big investigations
Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) sent a sternly-worded letter on Monday to the government’s 73 inspectors general asking that they inform congress of serious violations under investigation.

In the letter, Issa, who is chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, expressed his displeasure that the inspector general of the General Services Administration failed to inform Congress of an investigation into a 2010 employee conference in Las Vegas that cost more than $823,000. While the inspector general had informed GSA’s senior leadership in May 2011, and the White House was informed the same month, Congress did not receive word of the investigation until The Washington Post broke the story on April 2, the day the GSA inspector general, Brian Miller, issued his report.

“Section 5(d) of the Inspector General Act requires the inspectors general to report particularly flagrant problems to Congress through the agency head within seven days via what has become known as a ‘seven-day letter,’” Issa wrote.

Scribd Issa to IGs PDF
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Posted: 8/8/2012 4:25:47 PM
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Posted: 8/8/2012 11:04:01 PM
[Last Edit: 8/9/2012 7:18:29 AM by 15jonshoot]
Went to check Clean Up ATF forums, might be down for maintenance? I have no idea what the message means other than I can't see the forums.


ETA: CU ATF did some work on their site, it has a new look now.
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Posted: 8/9/2012 6:38:27 AM
Originally Posted By Remyrw:
I find their continued attempts to argue that it was a Pre-Obama program hysterical. Once you're running the show, any operations that continue are yours, you own it, you are responsible for it. Whether the previous administration is ALSO responsible is another issue entirely and does not get you off the hook. All you do by pointing the finger at them is say, "I know it was a horrible thing and I know what happened well enough to know WHEN it started." Combined with not turning over any and all documentation related to it you are pretty clearly showing your own guilt as well.

It's like the little kids who do something wrong and then try to excuse it by saying their older sibling did it first. While that may or may not be true, it has nothing to do with your own guilt. In fact, your admission that you knew it was wrong and proceeded to not only cover it up but then continue with it makes you twice as guilty as the first group.


bush war on terror for 8 years plus Obama war on terror 2 years = Obama killed bin laden.

failed and ended bush era trafficing program for 2 years, plus even worse Obama era program for 2 years = bush did it.

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Posted: 8/9/2012 8:33:36 AM
High-Ranking Mexican Drug Cartel Member Makes Explosive Allegation: ‘Fast and Furious’ Is Not What You Think It Is

A high-ranking Mexican drug cartel operative currently in U.S. custody is making startling allegations that the failed federal gun-walking operation known as “Fast and Furious” isn’t what you think it is.

It wasn’t about tracking guns, it was about supplying them — all part of an elaborate agreement between the U.S. government and Mexico’s powerful Sinaloa Cartel to take down rival cartels.

The explosive allegations are being made by Jesus Vicente Zambada-Niebla, known as the Sinaloa Cartel’s “logistics coordinator.” He was extradited to the Chicago last year to face federal drug charges.

Zambada-Niebla claims that under a “divide and conquer” strategy, the U.S. helped finance and arm the Sinaloa Cartel through Operation Fast and Furious in exchange for information that allowed the DEA, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and other federal agencies to take down rival drug cartels. The Sinaloa Cartel was allegedly permitted to traffic massive amounts of drugs across the U.S. border from 2004 to 2009 as long as the intel kept coming.

This pending court case against Zambada-Niebla is being closely monitored by some members of Congress, who expect potential legal ramifications if any of his claims are substantiated. The trial was delayed but is now scheduled to begin on Oct. 9.

Zambada-Niebla is reportedly a close associate of Sinaloa Cartel kingpin Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman and the son of Ismael “Mayo” Zambada-Garcia, both of which remain fugitives, likely because of the deal made with the DEA, federal court documents allege.
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Posted: 8/9/2012 9:20:36 AM
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Posted: 8/9/2012 10:25:18 AM
Originally Posted By burbanite:


Whoops!


That guy has been singing that song for a while. If it ends up being true, that would be quite a story.

The documents that Issa has shown still point to the gunwalking angle though.
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Posted: 8/9/2012 10:47:21 AM
Originally Posted By miker84:
Originally Posted By burbanite:


Whoops!


That guy has been singing that song for a while. If it ends up being true, that would be quite a story.

The documents that Issa has shown still point to the gunwalking angle though.


Gunwalking provides plausible deniability and a cover for more anti gun laws.
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Posted: 8/9/2012 3:59:02 PM


ATF head Jones avoiding volunteered evidence about earlier gun operation


Acting Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Director B. Todd Jones has failed to acknowledge overtures by the confidential informant at the heart of Operation Wide Receiver to give him detailed information about the failed gun smuggling investigation, Gun Rights Examiner learned over the weekend.

Firearms dealer Mike Detty, who sold about 450 guns to straw purchasers under the assurances of his ATF handlers that they would be under surveillance, attempted to give Jones operational information both in person and by letter earlier this year, only to be ignored...


http://www.examiner.com/article/atf-head-jones-avoiding-volunteered-evidence-about-earlier-gun-operation
scottedward58
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Posted: 8/9/2012 5:13:23 PM
Originally Posted By miker84:
Originally Posted By burbanite:


Whoops!


That guy has been singing that song for a while. If it ends up being true, that would be quite a story.

The documents that Issa has shown still point to the gunwalking angle though.


You know you're a socialist when you even try to pick the winners and losers in a black market.
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Posted: 8/9/2012 5:28:54 PM
[Last Edit: 8/9/2012 5:33:57 PM by Kevyn]
Zambada-Niebla claims that under a “divide and conquer” strategy, the U.S. helped finance and arm the Sinaloa Cartel through Operation Fast and Furious in exchange for information that allowed the DEA, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and other federal agencies to take down rival drug cartels. The Sinaloa Cartel was allegedly permitted to traffic massive amounts of drugs across the U.S. border from 2004 to 2009 — during both Fast and Furious and Bush-era gunrunning operations — as long as the intel kept coming.

This pending court case against Zambada-Niebla is being closely monitored by some members of Congress, who expect potential legal ramifications if any of his claims are substantiated. The trial was delayed but is now scheduled to begin on Oct. 9.

Zambada-Niebla is reportedly a close associate of Sinaloa Cartel kingpin Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman and the son of Ismael “Mayo” Zambada-Garcia, both of which remain fugitives, likely because of the deal made with the DEA, federal court documents allege.

Based on the alleged agreement ”the Sinaloa Cartel under the leadership of defendant’s father, Ismael Zambada-Niebla and ‘Chapo’ Guzman, were given carte blanche to continue to smuggle tons of illicit drugs into Chicago and the rest of the United States and were also protected by the United States government from arrest and prosecution in return for providing information against rival cartels which helped Mexican and United States authorities capture or kill thousands of rival cartel members,” states a motion for discovery filed in U.S. District Court by Zambada-Niebla’s attorney in July 2011.


Who's obfuscating what for whom?

Unfortunately, I'm inclined to believe the worst.

Gun control was a "Bonus" ...it's about drugs & money. Enormous amounts of money.

Winners & losers ...we all lose, they win.

...Chicago. What a fucking cess pool. No wonder Barry claimed EP to save Holder's ass & most of the DOJ.

Filthy, dirty, evil bastards.

No mercy.
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Posted: 8/9/2012 6:19:26 PM
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That's commendable enough.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't at Brian Terry's funeral. You know the guy that was under his command that was killed!


"...But there's also this: there are over 5,000 men in this city, who know that being a policeman is an endless, glamourless, thankless job that's gotta be done. I know it, too, and I'm damn glad to be one of them." Joe Friday
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Posted: 8/10/2012 9:20:28 AM
This is what they are talking about on the Glenn Beck show, I think it is Joe Pags... filling in.

Originally Posted By South_Side_Shooter:
High-Ranking Mexican Drug Cartel Member Makes Explosive Allegation: ‘Fast and Furious’ Is Not What You Think It Is

A high-ranking Mexican drug cartel operative currently in U.S. custody is making startling allegations that the failed federal gun-walking operation known as “Fast and Furious” isn’t what you think it is.

It wasn’t about tracking guns, it was about supplying them — all part of an elaborate agreement between the U.S. government and Mexico’s powerful Sinaloa Cartel to take down rival cartels.

The explosive allegations are being made by Jesus Vicente Zambada-Niebla, known as the Sinaloa Cartel’s “logistics coordinator.” He was extradited to the Chicago last year to face federal drug charges.

Zambada-Niebla claims that under a “divide and conquer” strategy, the U.S. helped finance and arm the Sinaloa Cartel through Operation Fast and Furious in exchange for information that allowed the DEA, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and other federal agencies to take down rival drug cartels. The Sinaloa Cartel was allegedly permitted to traffic massive amounts of drugs across the U.S. border from 2004 to 2009 as long as the intel kept coming.

This pending court case against Zambada-Niebla is being closely monitored by some members of Congress, who expect potential legal ramifications if any of his claims are substantiated. The trial was delayed but is now scheduled to begin on Oct. 9.

Zambada-Niebla is reportedly a close associate of Sinaloa Cartel kingpin Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman and the son of Ismael “Mayo” Zambada-Garcia, both of which remain fugitives, likely because of the deal made with the DEA, federal court documents allege.


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Posted: 8/10/2012 9:50:26 AM
Originally Posted By iScream:
Originally Posted By scottedward58:
When is the OIG report coming out? The election is less than three months away if they don't get this out soon they won't have time to let this scandal reach it's climax before the election. Is anyone else getting a bad feeling about the way this is going too? They released a damning first report with all kinds of evidence to back it up and the MSM just glossed over it and ran spin to protect this administration. What more is it going to take to get them to cover this the way it should be?


I fear it's not gonna be noticed by average joe on the street unless Holder is actually arrested and an easy to understand case is laid out. Or, something serious sticks to BHO, causing Democrats to denounce him.

This thing is so complicated that those of us following it daily can't keep up with all the pieces. If it's just a PR battle fought in the media, eyes are gonna keep glazing over and the MSM is still going to dismiss it as partisan stuff, regardless of how serious the evidence is.

Something sensational needs to happen.


+ eleventy billion.
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Posted: 8/10/2012 10:19:56 AM
[Last Edit: 8/10/2012 10:54:17 AM by LungShot]

Originally Posted By South_Side_Shooter:
High-Ranking Mexican Drug Cartel Member Makes Explosive Allegation: ‘Fast and Furious’ Is Not What You Think It Is

A high-ranking Mexican drug cartel operative currently in U.S. custody is making startling allegations that the failed federal gun-walking operation known as "Fast and Furious” isn’t what you think it is.

It wasn’t about tracking guns, it was about supplying them — all part of an elaborate agreement between the U.S. government and Mexico’s powerful Sinaloa Cartel to take down rival cartels.

The explosive allegations are being made by Jesus Vicente Zambada-Niebla, known as the Sinaloa Cartel’s "logistics coordinator.” He was extradited to the Chicago last year to face federal drug charges.

Zambada-Niebla claims that under a "divide and conquer” strategy, the U.S. helped finance and arm the Sinaloa Cartel through Operation Fast and Furious in exchange for information that allowed the DEA, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and other federal agencies to take down rival drug cartels. The Sinaloa Cartel was allegedly permitted to traffic massive amounts of drugs across the U.S. border from 2004 to 2009 as long as the intel kept coming.

This pending court case against Zambada-Niebla is being closely monitored by some members of Congress, who expect potential legal ramifications if any of his claims are substantiated. The trial was delayed but is now scheduled to begin on Oct. 9.

Zambada-Niebla is reportedly a close associate of Sinaloa Cartel kingpin Joaquin "El Chapo” Guzman and the son of Ismael "Mayo” Zambada-Garcia, both of which remain fugitives, likely because of the deal made with the DEA, federal court documents allege.

Yawn, this is old news.. Not really "late-breaking".



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Posted: 8/10/2012 11:22:48 AM
Originally Posted By LungShot:

Originally Posted By South_Side_Shooter:
High-Ranking Mexican Drug Cartel Member Makes Explosive Allegation: ‘Fast and Furious’ Is Not What You Think It Is

A high-ranking Mexican drug cartel operative currently in U.S. custody is making startling allegations that the failed federal gun-walking operation known as "Fast and Furious” isn’t what you think it is.

It wasn’t about tracking guns, it was about supplying them — all part of an elaborate agreement between the U.S. government and Mexico’s powerful Sinaloa Cartel to take down rival cartels.

The explosive allegations are being made by Jesus Vicente Zambada-Niebla, known as the Sinaloa Cartel’s "logistics coordinator.” He was extradited to the Chicago last year to face federal drug charges.

Zambada-Niebla claims that under a "divide and conquer” strategy, the U.S. helped finance and arm the Sinaloa Cartel through Operation Fast and Furious in exchange for information that allowed the DEA, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and other federal agencies to take down rival drug cartels. The Sinaloa Cartel was allegedly permitted to traffic massive amounts of drugs across the U.S. border from 2004 to 2009 as long as the intel kept coming.

This pending court case against Zambada-Niebla is being closely monitored by some members of Congress, who expect potential legal ramifications if any of his claims are substantiated. The trial was delayed but is now scheduled to begin on Oct. 9.

Zambada-Niebla is reportedly a close associate of Sinaloa Cartel kingpin Joaquin "El Chapo” Guzman and the son of Ismael "Mayo” Zambada-Garcia, both of which remain fugitives, likely because of the deal made with the DEA, federal court documents allege.

Yawn, this is old news.. Not really "late-breaking".





I found this gem in the narcoshpere article
The sources requested anonymity out of fear that they would be retaliated against by the government for revealing the information.

The operation also appeared to be badly flawed, the sources said, because it was being carried out unilaterally, (Rambo-style), by ICE and without the knowledge of the Mexican government.

“This is a case of ICE running amok,” one DEA source told Narco News. “If this [operation] was being run by the book, they would not be doing it unilaterally” – without the participation of DEA – “and without the knowledge of the Mexican government.”
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Posted: 8/10/2012 11:37:48 AM
Some cleanupATF.org humor....


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Posted: 8/10/2012 11:57:18 AM
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Posted: 8/10/2012 12:21:41 PM
I'm in! Got popcorn and Tv dinner.
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Posted: 8/10/2012 1:43:02 PM
[Last Edit: 8/10/2012 1:48:50 PM by ch1966]
distributor_of_pain posted this in the topic specific thread.

Someone embed please.

This is where this investigation will go if it is pursued by honest people.
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Posted: 8/10/2012 3:13:50 PM
Originally Posted By ch1966:
distributor_of_pain posted this in the topic specific thread.

Someone embed please.

This is where this investigation will go if it is pursued by honest people.




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Posted: 8/10/2012 3:25:14 PM
This email sent to Katie Pavlich after running the linked story below

Date: Fri, Aug 10, 2012 11:11 am

From: hellsangel1@aol.com

To: "Katie Pavlich" <katie.pavlich@townhall.com>

Subject: Fwd: You're next sweetie

You should keep your thoughts to yourself if you know what's good for you.



The story is about Jay Dobyn's case. Again, not directly related to FF but still a good example of what is going on at ATF.

Payback: Holder’s DOJ Refuses to Close Whistleblower’s Retaliation Case

Today marks the four year anniversary of when ATF Special Agent Jay Dobyns’ house was burned to the ground. The blaze was set to his home while his wife and children were sleeping inside at 3 a.m. As a refresher, Dobyns is a 25-year ATF veteran and worked undercover in the Hells Angels gang for two years in what was known as “Operation Black Biscuit.” When he got out after putting dozens of the Angels in prison, members of the gang in coordination with hard criminals in prisons around the country, issued death threats against him and his family. These criminals and their associates are suspected to be responsible for the arson of Dobyns’ home. Four years later, ATF still hasn’t held a single person accountable within the agency for failing to address threats against his family and hasn’t solved the arson of his home.
distributor_of_pain
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Posted: 8/10/2012 3:43:04 PM
Originally Posted By miker84:
This email sent to Katie Pavlich after running the linked story below

Date: Fri, Aug 10, 2012 11:11 am

From: hellsangel1@aol.com

To: "Katie Pavlich" <katie.pavlich@townhall.com>

Subject: Fwd: You're next sweetie

You should keep your thoughts to yourself if you know what's good for you.



The story is about Jay Dobyn's case. Again, not directly related to FF but still a good example of what is going on at ATF.

Payback: Holder’s DOJ Refuses to Close Whistleblower’s Retaliation Case

Today marks the four year anniversary of when ATF Special Agent Jay Dobyns’ house was burned to the ground. The blaze was set to his home while his wife and children were sleeping inside at 3 a.m. As a refresher, Dobyns is a 25-year ATF veteran and worked undercover in the Hells Angels gang for two years in what was known as “Operation Black Biscuit.” When he got out after putting dozens of the Angels in prison, members of the gang in coordination with hard criminals in prisons around the country, issued death threats against him and his family. These criminals and their associates are suspected to be responsible for the arson of Dobyns’ home. Four years later, ATF still hasn’t held a single person accountable within the agency for failing to address threats against his family and hasn’t solved the arson of his home.


??????

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Posted: 8/10/2012 3:48:52 PM
Originally Posted By miker84:
This email sent to Katie Pavlich after running the linked story below

Date: Fri, Aug 10, 2012 11:11 am

From: hellsangel1@aol.com

To: "Katie Pavlich" >

Subject: Fwd: You're next sweetie

You should keep your thoughts to yourself if you know what's good for you.



The story is about Jay Dobyn's case. Again, not directly related to FF but still a good example of what is going on at ATF.

Payback: Holder’s DOJ Refuses to Close Whistleblower’s Retaliation Case

Today marks the four year anniversary of when ATF Special Agent Jay Dobyns’ house was burned to the ground. The blaze was set to his home while his wife and children were sleeping inside at 3 a.m. As a refresher, Dobyns is a 25-year ATF veteran and worked undercover in the Hells Angels gang for two years in what was known as “Operation Black Biscuit.” When he got out after putting dozens of the Angels in prison, members of the gang in coordination with hard criminals in prisons around the country, issued death threats against him and his family. These criminals and their associates are suspected to be responsible for the arson of Dobyns’ home. Four years later, ATF still hasn’t held a single person accountable within the agency for failing to address threats against his family and hasn’t solved the arson of his home.


hmm....

wouldn't surprise me if it didn't actually come from the linked email address.
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Posted: 8/10/2012 5:57:00 PM
We've known about the Sinaloa preference allegations for how many months now? If true, they still don't make padding the numbers an excluded goal of F&F. You get to knock out 2 birds with one stone.

Another thing about providing civilian weapons from FFL's versus FMS: Wouldn't it just be easier to transfer military weapons to Sinaloa-controlled Mexican military and LE, with no limitations on volume or types of weapons?

Would transfer of weapons to Sinaloa require multiple Federal Regions, and why even involve the ATF when it would be much easier to just use other agencies that specialize in these things?

Seems like a "Bush's fault too" BS story in many ways if you look at it and understand how things work with logistics. Not saying F&F excludes Sinaloa as a target for preferential treatment, as that makes sense given the problems with money laundering and cash shortages that all the banks depend on, but why leave it up to a bunch of amateurs who everyone knows will screw things up...ATF?

If you want the job loused up, everyone knows you let ATF have it...even the Clinton's know that.
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Posted: 8/10/2012 6:46:09 PM
Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
We've known about the Sinaloa preference allegations for how many months now? If true, they still don't make padding the numbers an excluded goal of F&F. You get to knock out 2 birds with one stone.

Another thing about providing civilian weapons from FFL's versus FMS: Wouldn't it just be easier to transfer military weapons to Sinaloa-controlled Mexican military and LE, with no limitations on volume or types of weapons?

Would transfer of weapons to Sinaloa require multiple Federal Regions, and why even involve the ATF when it would be much easier to just use other agencies that specialize in these things?

Seems like a "Bush's fault too" BS story in many ways if you look at it and understand how things work with logistics. Not saying F&F excludes Sinaloa as a target for preferential treatment, as that makes sense given the problems with money laundering and cash shortages that all the banks depend on, but why leave it up to a bunch of amateurs who everyone knows will screw things up...ATF?

If you want the job loused up, everyone knows you let ATF have it...even the Clinton's know that.


Out of left field -

Odds that Bill and Hillary set 0bama up as revenge for taking the nomination away from her?
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Posted: 8/10/2012 6:52:58 PM
[Last Edit: 8/10/2012 6:53:25 PM by LRRPF52]
Throughout this case, I've wondered about the firings of the US Attorneys under Bush, and if any were involved with Gunrunner. If I were Pres., and learned something like this was going on w/o my approval, there would be heads rolling. I would probably physically crush a few people's nuts with my own hands, to be honest. What are they going to say? "The President crushed my NUTS!"
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Posted: 8/10/2012 7:37:05 PM
Originally Posted By miker84:

The story is about Jay Dobyn's case. Again, not directly related to FF but still a good example of what is going on at ATF.

Payback: Holder’s DOJ Refuses to Close Whistleblower’s Retaliation Case

Today marks the four year anniversary of when ATF Special Agent Jay Dobyns’ house was burned to the ground. The blaze was set to his home while his wife and children were sleeping inside at 3 a.m. As a refresher, Dobyns is a 25-year ATF veteran and worked undercover in the Hells Angels gang for two years in what was known as “Operation Black Biscuit.” When he got out after putting dozens of the Angels in prison, members of the gang in coordination with hard criminals in prisons around the country, issued death threats against him and his family. These criminals and their associates are suspected to be responsible for the arson of Dobyns’ home. Four years later, ATF still hasn’t held a single person accountable within the agency for failing to address threats against his family and hasn’t solved the arson of his home.


http://cleanupatf.org/forums/index.php?/topic/153-atf-operation-gunrunnerfast-furiousphoenix-division/

Jay Dobyns in CUATF about the attempt to pin arson charges on him:

BeenThereDoneThat is 100% spot on accurate.

In my case, DOJ forced me to have 4 two-hour sessions with a shrink who then wrote a report for them intended to destroy me. Instead, their shrink was destroyed during his deposition because DOJ had only given him half of the facts to write their end of the report.

Then DOJ forced the deposition of my wife. For three hours, ATF and DOJ attorneys tortured her. The questions went so broad that a large portion of the deposition was how often we have sex, for how long, what styles, etc. That is how they chose to "defend" ATF.

The government attorneys clearly enjoyed every minute of the ridicule they put her through. When the depo was over, my wife collapsed and was sobbing. Across the table, the DOJ attorneys laughed and smiled and shook hands, satisfied that they had deeply humiliated her.

That is our Department of "Justice" at its finest.


When the email came to Katie Jay had this little post:

Now they want to threaten Katie Pavlich? I don't think so motherfuckers. If anything should happen to this young lady or if she should be made to feel even one more bit uncomfortable than you have already done your organization will cease to exist. There are still plenty of good cops out there who will see to that. Leave the threats and intimidation to ATF and DOJ.
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Posted: 8/10/2012 7:43:00 PM
He thinks the "hell's angels" sent the email?
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Posted: 8/10/2012 8:09:47 PM
Originally Posted By distributor_of_pain:
He thinks the "hell's angels" sent the email?


Could be a hacked email. Who knows.
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