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Berettadeprived
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Posted: 12/11/2010 7:59:47 AM
Obviously they kill if they damage or destroy the brain or CNS or cause severe blood loss.

But if a guy is gut shot, how long should it take him to die? Will he die at all and if so, what typically kills him, is it organ damage, blood loss, infection or a combination of these?

For example, I've always been told that during the 1800's, the cowboy days as I know them, if a bloke was gut shot, it was not only one of the most painfull places to get shot, but a slow death was almost certain, is that because of the lack of advanced medical care available or because no matter what a gut shot is leathal?.

Take this senario, if a bloke is shot in the gut, its a through and through, no vital organ has been hit, all it is is a hole in the body, if nothing vital has been hit, and no medical attention is given, could the bloke die and if so from what?
Obviously, if something important is hit, I guess depending on how important that thing is will determine how fast he dies but is is possible for soemone to die instantly from a handgun round, to the stomach or if nothing vital is hit would they have time to get to a hospital?

Also, what are the most common causes of death resaulting from a gun shot wound, blood loss, vital organ damage or infection?
bigjunk1
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Posted: 12/11/2010 8:16:05 AM
[Last Edit: 12/11/2010 8:18:02 AM by bigjunk1]
Blood loss would be the most common death other than the instant head or heart shot.
Internal bleeding is caused from a gun shot to most any torso area.The lungs and or stomach will fill with blood causing a slower death from obvious reasons.
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Posted: 12/11/2010 8:18:12 AM
bloodsport2885
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Posted: 12/11/2010 8:24:58 AM
[Last Edit: 12/11/2010 8:27:34 AM by bloodsport2885]
Gut shots often get infected VERY quickly due to introducing feces (and associated bacteria) into areas of the body they aren't normally found. You also have the liver, kidneys, aorta, and other organs that often have a very dense vascular supply, meaning any trauma to these could result in you bleeding out pretty quickly.

The assured slow death in the past was a result of poor medical care. Without antibiotics, the patient was sure to die and, in the case of battlefield hospitals, there were other wounded that might be saved through amputation. If you were unlucky enough not to bleed out within a few minutes, the death by infection was very gruesome and unpleasant. The pain often associated with abdominal wounds is likely similar to the pain of a hernia. Once the peritoneal (abdominal) sack is compromised, I imagine it becomes painful when your guts try to hold themselves together. Your abdominal muscles are also highly involved in your balance and movement so the wound would continually be aggravated by muscles contracting and tugging on the edges.

As for how fast a person dies and from what, that's impossible to say except on a case by case basis. Even today, untreated "through and through" gunshot wounds are likely to fester without sterile debridement and any wounds to internal organs are likely to bleed enough to kill. Your organs don't have the same vascular characteristics as skin (since your organs weren't designed to take damage like your skin) they often bleed profusely and require surgical repair to stop internal bleeding.
Originally Posted By ecgRN:
Floridahunter had to get some one to shoot him. Twonami and I manned up and did it ourselves....

0699TeufelHnd
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Posted: 12/11/2010 8:28:25 AM
[Last Edit: 12/11/2010 8:28:41 AM by 0699TeufelHnd]
For all intensive porpoises, Magic.
steve2071
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Posted: 12/11/2010 8:32:56 AM
A gunshot is tremendously traumatic on the human body, especially from higher power projectiles like a rifle. When a bullet is fired, there is not only the hot piece of metal being launched, but behind it follows a massive pressure wave. When the bullet strikes tissue, it penetrates and loses energy. Driving in behind it is that pressure wave, kind of like an invisible wedge that forces its way in behind the bullet. This causes massive disruption and tears and destroys surrounding tissue. When you hear about cavitation, this is usually caused by that pressure which is suddenly trapped inside the body and expands. Small space, lots of pressure, all kinds of things are going to rupture. Usually massive blood loss or acute organ failure is the result.
mhoffman
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Posted: 12/11/2010 8:35:05 AM
Short answer: It puts holes in things that aren't supposed to have holes.

Very, very short answer: Fuckin' miracles.

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Posted: 12/11/2010 8:38:13 AM
Exsanguination, primarily. Bleed out and the mechanism runs down.
*post contains personal opinion only and should not be considered information released in an official capacity*
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Posted: 12/11/2010 8:42:20 AM
With today's medicine, neither President Garfield or President McKinley would have died in office. Apparently, the doctors infected them more as they kept unhygienically opened them back up to remove the bullets that were no longer a threat.
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Posted: 12/11/2010 8:44:21 AM
I'm leakin'.
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superchi
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Posted: 12/11/2010 8:44:42 AM
Originally Posted By 0699TeufelHnd:
For all intensive porpoises, Magic.


I lol'd
I KEEP IT REAL
Kuraki
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Posted: 12/11/2010 8:46:17 AM
A number of things. Large, slow moving bullets tended to push bits of clothing in with the wound, introducing bacteria to the sterile body cavity. Lack of antibiotics, lack of standard precautions or an understanding of how infection works or is caused. Damage to the intestinal tract introducing fecal matter to the body cavity.
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Posted: 12/11/2010 8:46:18 AM
Fatal gun shots ultimately result in lack of oxygen to the brain.
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AeroE
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Posted: 12/11/2010 8:50:32 AM

Originally Posted By Berettadeprived:
Obviously they kill if they damage or destroy the brain or CNS or cause severe blood loss.

But if a guy is gut shot, how long should it take him to die? Will he die at all and if so, what typically kills him, is it organ damage, blood loss, infection or a combination of these?

For example, I've always been told that during the 1800's, the cowboy days as I know them, if a bloke was gut shot, it was not only one of the most painfull places to get shot, but a slow death was almost certain, is that because of the lack of advanced medical care available or because no matter what a gut shot is leathal?.

Take this senario, if a bloke is shot in the gut, its a through and through, no vital organ has been hit, all it is is a hole in the body, if nothing vital has been hit, and no medical attention is given, could the bloke die and if so from what?
Obviously, if something important is hit, I guess depending on how important that thing is will determine how fast he dies but is is possible for soemone to die instantly from a handgun round, to the stomach or if nothing vital is hit would they have time to get to a hospital?

Also, what are the most common causes of death resaulting from a gun shot wound, blood loss, vital organ damage or infection?

You've pretty well nailed it, death could come from a broad spectrum of causes over greatly different spans of time.

Small caliber pocket pistols were indeed feared due to likely death from infection in the 1800's. That was the deterrent as much as the pistol.


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TDCJBoss
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Posted: 12/11/2010 8:52:31 AM
Pretty much what others have said. When it comes down to it
though, trauma is trauma is trauma. If you take a round through
some of the major blood vessels, you'll bleed out in under 5 minutes
(Say the Femorl artery). A shot through the head will, in all probability
stop brain function instantly.

It's all just a matter of where the bullet hits, and, how big the wound channel
is. Fully jacketed rounds tend to make a smaller wound channel than hollow
point or soft point rounds, with the latter giving more expeansion, thusly
opening the wound channel more and causeing more damage.
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Posted: 12/11/2010 8:53:41 AM

Originally Posted By 0699TeufelHnd:
For all intensive porpoises, Magic.


Wrong.





Magnets.
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Posted: 12/11/2010 9:29:04 AM
Has a lot to do with turning heart and lungs into goo. Otherwise, you're doing it wrong.

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Pegasus6
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Posted: 12/11/2010 9:34:13 AM

Originally Posted By sherrick13:

Originally Posted By 0699TeufelHnd:
For all intensive porpoises, Magic.


Wrong.





Magnets.

Is there a difference?
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Posted: 12/11/2010 9:40:50 AM
On the subject of infection.

The Mrs. had a hysterectomy a couple of years ago. She ended up with a staph infection somewhere around her gut. The Dr. made the comment that the type of infection was what used to kill gunshot soldiers back in the day. Said it was a horrible way to go. The Mrs. agreed as she dealt with it for a couple of days before going in. Said it was much sharper and worse than child birth. She had screaming pains, high fever, it was pretty nasty.
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Posted: 12/11/2010 9:41:24 AM
Originally Posted By Berettadeprived:
Obviously they kill if they damage or destroy the brain or CNS or cause severe blood loss.

But if a guy is gut shot, how long should it take him to die? Will he die at all and if so, what typically kills him, is it organ damage, blood loss, infection or a combination of these?

For example, I've always been told that during the 1800's, the cowboy days as I know them, if a bloke was gut shot, it was not only one of the most painfull places to get shot, but a slow death was almost certain, is that because of the lack of advanced medical care available or because no matter what a gut shot is leathal?.

Take this senario, if a bloke is shot in the gut, its a through and through, no vital organ has been hit, all it is is a hole in the body, if nothing vital has been hit, and no medical attention is given, could the bloke die and if so from what?
Obviously, if something important is hit, I guess depending on how important that thing is will determine how fast he dies but is is possible for soemone to die instantly from a handgun round, to the stomach or if nothing vital is hit would they have time to get to a hospital?

Also, what are the most common causes of death resaulting from a gun shot wound, blood loss, vital organ damage or infection?


In short...

Fuckin' bullets, how do they work?
offshorebear
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Posted: 12/11/2010 9:46:49 AM
Loss of blood pressure causes blood to not go to the brain. You pass out pretty quickly after that.
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us-kiwi
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Posted: 12/11/2010 9:59:37 AM

Originally Posted By Berettadeprived:
Obviously they kill if they damage or destroy the brain or CNS or cause severe blood loss.

But if a guy is gut shot, how long should it take him to die? Will he die at all and if so, what typically kills him, is it organ damage, blood loss, infection or a combination of these?

For example, I've always been told that during the 1800's, the cowboy days as I know them, if a bloke was gut shot, it was not only one of the most painfull places to get shot, but a slow death was almost certain, is that because of the lack of advanced medical care available or because no matter what a gut shot is leathal?.

Take this senario, if a bloke is shot in the gut, its a through and through, no vital organ has been hit, all it is is a hole in the body, if nothing vital has been hit, and no medical attention is given, could the bloke die and if so from what?
Obviously, if something important is hit, I guess depending on how important that thing is will determine how fast he dies but is is possible for soemone to die instantly from a handgun round, to the stomach or if nothing vital is hit would they have time to get to a hospital?

Also, what are the most common causes of death resaulting from a gun shot wound, blood loss, vital organ damage or infection?

Just go to the South Island when they are doing one of the 'deer shoots' from helo's.
Lots of carcasses to check out, with all different kinds of wounds.
Do a search on U tube, I saw a video 2-3 years ago, IIRC

Or just go whack some wild pork. Same deal.
Somebody, - I think one of the bigger gun mags, did a 'bullet test' a while ago on pigs.

IIRC they shot a lot of pigs in a lot of different ways, then studied the wounds.

Study was cut short, because people could not stomach the slaughter.

YMMV


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Posted: 12/11/2010 10:07:43 AM
Hemmorhagic shock, spinal shock, TBI, or sepsis

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Posted: 12/11/2010 10:17:58 AM
We have a saying in surgery . . . "All bleeding eventually stops . . . "

Bleeding aside, gut shot - peritonitis . . . It got Houdini after a ruptured appendix.

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Posted: 12/11/2010 11:31:16 AM


That is a good read.
Berettadeprived
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Posted: 12/11/2010 6:36:51 PM
Thanks for the replies, there are certainly some dynamics at work which are obvious as I was reading them, but for some reason I never thought of before, in short, it is not as simple as just a hole, there is a lot more going on inside then I ever thought.
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Posted: 12/11/2010 6:53:49 PM
[Last Edit: 12/11/2010 6:54:22 PM by brickeyee]
But if a guy is gut shot, how long should it take him to die? Will he die at all and if so, what typically kills him, is it organ damage, blood loss, infection or a combination of these?


Gut shots are contaminated and infected about from the instant they happen.

The alimentary canal is NOT a sterile place, unlike the rest of the viscera.

A fever should show up in as little as 12 hours, with abdominal rigidity in a matter of minutes.


Your body does not like to digest itself.

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Posted: 12/11/2010 6:57:52 PM
I've heard it surmised that bullet holes in one's body allow one's ghost to leak out...
(That's almost always fatal.)


It sounds like something Clint Smith would say!
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Posted: 12/11/2010 6:59:19 PM
I think it's usually infected pockets of bile.
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Posted: 12/11/2010 7:05:15 PM
A shot to the belly won't always kill. Consider Alexis St. Martin.

On the other hand, he may have used up the luck for all of us there, between surviving and getting in the history books.
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Posted: 12/11/2010 7:33:26 PM
Acute lead poisoning. One shot, and it's all over.
garand555
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Posted: 12/11/2010 7:39:36 PM
Originally Posted By steve2071:
A gunshot is tremendously traumatic on the human body, especially from higher power projectiles like a rifle. When a bullet is fired, there is not only the hot piece of metal being launched, but behind it follows a massive pressure wave. When the bullet strikes tissue, it penetrates and loses energy. Driving in behind it is that pressure wave, kind of like an invisible wedge that forces its way in behind the bullet. This causes massive disruption and tears and destroys surrounding tissue. When you hear about cavitation, this is usually caused by that pressure which is suddenly trapped inside the body and expands. Small space, lots of pressure, all kinds of things are going to rupture. Usually massive blood loss or acute organ failure is the result.


Even if that pressure wave originates in the chest cavity, it can also cause brain hemorrhaging. You're typically not going that for hand gun cartridges smaller than, oh, about 357 mag, but that kind of secondary effect can be pretty nasty too.
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Posted: 12/11/2010 7:47:52 PM
Tension pneumothorax, or piercing the chest cavity (which causes, among other things, one or both of the longs to collapse) is a quick and painful way to die if not treated quickly. Not real hard to fix, but a quick fix is necessary.
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Posted: 12/11/2010 10:06:10 PM

Originally Posted By Pegasus6:

Originally Posted By sherrick13:

Originally Posted By 0699TeufelHnd:
For all intensive porpoises, Magic.


Wrong.





Magnets.

Is there a difference?


Now that you mention it, no.
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Posted: 12/11/2010 10:20:35 PM
Originally Posted By sherrick13:

Originally Posted By 0699TeufelHnd:
For all intensive porpoises, Magic.


Wrong.





Magnets.


Fuckin' A.

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Posted: 12/11/2010 10:37:21 PM
Essentially a fatal drop of blood pressure, or a direct hit to the central nervous system.

So they bleed out, or you shoot em in the head and destroy the brain.
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Posted: 12/11/2010 10:48:41 PM

Originally Posted By Eazy_E:
I think it's usually infected pockets of bile.

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my first thought at seeing the title too
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Posted: 12/11/2010 10:50:57 PM
Basically, take your garden hose, hook it up to the watersource and put a prinkler on the other end. Turn the water on, It's important for you to live to keep the sprinkler going, it's the stuff in your body that works and keeps you going.

Whack the hose in the middle with an axe, and see what happens to the sprinkler. The axe is the bullet.

If you can fix the hose quick enough with some tape, you live. Note however, that if the hose still leaks, the sprinkler doesn't work as well.
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Posted: 12/11/2010 11:07:33 PM
The shockwaves of racking the slide on the pump shotgun obliterate the vitals.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.