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aquaman67
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Posted: 12/10/2010 6:13:27 PM
NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) - A Tennessee appeals court has ruled that a person can be held responsible for a car thief's crash if the keys had been left in the vehicle.

The rest here.

http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=13650878
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tyman
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Posted: 12/10/2010 6:13:52 PM
RIP Jessie Davila - You are the ultimate hero.

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Posted: 12/10/2010 6:14:51 PM
Are they trying to say it was "conversion" and not theft?
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Posted: 12/10/2010 6:15:17 PM
seems pretty reasonable actually

keys prevent unauthorized use

you fail to take the basic step of keeping somebody from driving off in your car by leaving the keys

your fault
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Posted: 12/10/2010 6:16:35 PM
Damn, a couple of more stories like this and I'm moving to some south American jungle and hunting monkeys for a living.
But friendship is precious, not only in the shade, but in the sunshine of life, and thanks to a benevolent arrangement the greater part of life is sunshine.
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Posted: 12/10/2010 6:17:04 PM

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
seems pretty reasonable actually

keys prevent unauthorized use

you fail to take the basic step of keeping somebody from driving off in your car by leaving the keys

your fault

Please tell me you're joking.
But friendship is precious, not only in the shade, but in the sunshine of life, and thanks to a benevolent arrangement the greater part of life is sunshine.
DStrokes
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Posted: 12/10/2010 6:17:10 PM
Originally Posted By tyman:




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2000Z3M
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Posted: 12/10/2010 6:19:17 PM
[Last Edit: 12/10/2010 6:22:32 PM by 2000Z3M]
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
seems pretty unreasonable actually

keys help prevent unauthorized use

you fail to take the basic step of keeping somebody from driving off in your car by leaving the keys

your fault

there are laws about unauthorized use of a motor vehicle


fixed

ETA: 39-14-106. Unauthorized use of automobiles and other vehicles Joyriding.


A person commits a Class A misdemeanor who takes another's automobile, airplane, motorcycle, bicycle, boat or other vehicle without the consent of the owner and the person does not have the intent to deprive the owner thereof.


[Acts 1989, ch. 591, § 1.]

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MuRDoC
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Posted: 12/10/2010 6:20:32 PM

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
seems pretty reasonable actually

keys prevent unauthorized use

you fail to take the basic step of keeping somebody from driving off in your car by leaving the keys

your fault
that's pretty stupid. No one has a right to take your car, or rob your house. That's the same as saying the girl was asking to be raped because she was dressed a certain way.Your way of thinking is not American, we don't want to here

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Posted: 12/10/2010 6:21:16 PM
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
seems pretty reasonable actually

keys prevent unauthorized use

you fail to take the basic step of keeping somebody from driving off in your car by leaving the keys

your fault


Wasn't surprised to see you are in new york after reading this
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Posted: 12/10/2010 6:24:08 PM
[Last Edit: 12/10/2010 6:24:57 PM by Gator]
Originally Posted By 2000Z3M:
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
seems pretty unreasonable actually

keys help prevent unauthorized use

you fail to take the basic step of keeping somebody from driving off in your car by leaving the keys

your fault

there are laws about unauthorized use of a motor vehicle


fixed

ETA: 39-14-106. Unauthorized use of automobiles and other vehicles Joyriding.



Yeah, like homes are easy to break in to, if I don't install an alarm system and leave it unoccupied it's my fault that it gets broken in to.
A person commits a Class A misdemeanor who takes another's automobile, airplane, motorcycle, bicycle, boat or other vehicle without the consent of the owner and the person does not have the intent to deprive the owner thereof.




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Posted: 12/10/2010 6:24:10 PM
Tennessee?

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Posted: 12/10/2010 6:26:17 PM
If there is a statute against it, and the statute was designed to protect a class of citizens against a certain kind of harm and that harm occured that the class of citizens the statute was designed to protect, you have a negligence per se case.

BOO YA.
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Posted: 12/10/2010 6:26:36 PM

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
seems pretty reasonable actually

keys prevent unauthorized use

you fail to take the basic step of keeping somebody from driving off in your car by leaving the keys

your fault

Way to pass the responsibility from the criminal to the victim.

Short skirts facilitate rape, in much the same way. Girl's fault.


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MikeS369
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Posted: 12/10/2010 6:31:20 PM
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
seems pretty reasonable actually

keys prevent unauthorized use

you fail to take the basic step of keeping somebody from driving off in your car by leaving the keys

your fault




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Posted: 12/10/2010 6:32:32 PM
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
seems pretty reasonable actually

keys prevent unauthorized use

you fail to take the basic step of keeping somebody from driving off in your car by leaving the keys

your fault


Uh, no, its the thiefs fault.
Shit happens. you should'nt be held culpable for the actions of a criminal with out intent.
Suppose you left a pocketknife somewhere or dropped a kitchen knife at a barbecue, some Scumbag comes along and picks it up and uses it in a stabbing, are you now partially responsible for the stabbing? I don't think so.
Of course lawyers think so.
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Posted: 12/10/2010 6:58:16 PM

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
seems pretty reasonable actually

keys prevent unauthorized use

you fail to take the basic step of keeping somebody from driving off in your car by leaving the keys

your fault

So if someone breaks into my house, but the door was unlocked, I can't use the castle doctrine as a defense?

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Posted: 12/10/2010 6:59:32 PM

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
seems pretty reasonable actually

keys prevent unauthorized use

you fail to take the basic step of keeping somebody from driving off in your car by leaving the keys

your fault

so it's like a hot chick dressing slutty and she deserves to be raped?
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:02:36 PM
I will say that people who leave their car running while they go into the bank or gas station are Darwin award candidates but I don't think they should be charged for their stupidity. Sounds like to me a creative way the local .gov will try and cash in during the jobless recovery.
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:03:22 PM
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
seems pretty reasonable actually

keys prevent unauthorized use

you fail to take the basic step of keeping somebody from driving off in your car by leaving the keys

your fault


Bullshit. Criminal activity is not your fault. There is no legal requirement to secure your belongings. If someone steals something it simply doesn't matter HOW they stole it.
“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves.”
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:03:38 PM
Originally Posted By MuRDoC:

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
seems pretty reasonable actually

keys prevent unauthorized use

you fail to take the basic step of keeping somebody from driving off in your car by leaving the keys

your fault
that's pretty stupid. No one has a right to take your car, or rob your house. That's the same as saying the girl was asking to be raped because she was dressed a certain way.Your way of thinking is not American, we don't want to here



this
Bob1984
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:03:59 PM
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
seems pretty reasonable actually

keys prevent unauthorized use

you fail to take the basic step of keeping somebody from driving off in your car by leaving the keys

your fault


Agreed. It is absolutely stupid to leave keys in a car.
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:06:30 PM
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
seems pretty reasonable actually

keys prevent unauthorized use

you fail to take the basic step of keeping somebody from driving off in your car by leaving the keys

your fault


not sure if serious?
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:06:51 PM
Originally Posted By Stonerriflefan44:
I will say that people who leave their car running while they go into the bank or gas station are Darwin award candidates but I don't think they should be charged for their stupidity. Sounds like to me a creative way the local .gov will try and cash in during the jobless recovery.


Quite common up here in Dec/Jan/Feb where it's 50, 60, 70 below zero and there are no plug-ins to keep the block warm or, the inside of the vehicle. In addition, quite common to gas up with the engine running during the same timeframe.

So far, winter has been pretty mild for us, this year.
In the end it only matters who is left, not who started it.
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:07:32 PM

Originally Posted By Bob1984:
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
seems pretty reasonable actually

keys prevent unauthorized use

you fail to take the basic step of keeping somebody from driving off in your car by leaving the keys

your fault


Agreed. It is absolutely stupid to leave keys in a car.

Just out of curiosity, where do you live? (or where are you from originally)
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bonnevillain
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:08:48 PM
what kind of responsible person leaves their keys in their car?
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:11:31 PM

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
seems pretty reasonable actually

keys prevent unauthorized use

you fail to take the basic step of keeping somebody from driving off in your car by leaving the keys

your fault

Why is it good that cars should fall under attractive nuisance doctrine?

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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:18:23 PM
Coming soon:

A man was charged today with murder, because of the gun that was stolen from his 'substandard' safe six years ago.

GET TO WORK! CHANGE is here, and there are millions waiting with their hands out, for the redistribution of YOUR wealth.

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WindKnot1-1
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:20:35 PM
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
what kind of responsible person leaves their keys in their car?


This. Cars and safes for that matter, have locks for a reason. The owner who leaves the keys is not completely responsible, but it can be argued that failing to secure his property contributed to the injury. This does not reduce the responsibility of the thief though.
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:20:46 PM
I could give you a technical explanation. However, a simple explanation might suffice.

The case was not decided on the merits. This was an appeal on procedure only. The article does not articulate the procedural consideration

Some states allow a plaintiff to have a couple of tries at articulating a cause of action. If the trial court does not give the plaintiff a second chance to articulate a cause of action, it may be an abuse of discretion under state statutes. So, if the trial judge did not give a second bite of the apple, it would be a violation of procedure and warrant a reversal.

Some times articles leave out the details. Remember the lady who spilled coffee on her lap. Well, there was a factual basis for determining liability that was not discussed in the sensational press. All you read about was a number of a judgment. Of course, when the number was substantially reduced on appeal, the tremendous reduction didn't make headlines.
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:22:24 PM
Originally Posted By bytor94:
Coming soon:

A man was charged today with murder, because of the gun that was stolen from his 'substandard' safe six years ago.



At least the gun owner can make the defense that he took steps to secure his weapons and the thief overcame them. Can the car owner?
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:22:38 PM
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
seems pretty reasonable actually

keys prevent unauthorized use

you fail to take the basic step of keeping somebody from driving off in your car by leaving the keys

your fault


You're not serious are you ?
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:23:38 PM
Nobody is responsible for a crime except the criminal.
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:27:01 PM
[Last Edit: 12/10/2010 7:29:07 PM by GiggleSmith]

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
seems pretty reasonable actually

keys prevent unauthorized use

you fail to take the basic step of keeping somebody from driving off in your car by leaving the keys

your fault

+1.

I don't know how many times I've gone into a Convenience Store, somebody else pulls up in a car, and goes in the store without even bothering to turn the engine off. They Deserve to have their car stolen.

Edit to add: And it's Spring.
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:27:05 PM
Originally Posted By Strykewolf:
Originally Posted By Stonerriflefan44:
I will say that people who leave their car running while they go into the bank or gas station are Darwin award candidates but I don't think they should be charged for their stupidity. Sounds like to me a creative way the local .gov will try and cash in during the jobless recovery.


Quite common up here in Dec/Jan/Feb where it's 50, 60, 70 below zero and there are no plug-ins to keep the block warm or, the inside of the vehicle. In addition, quite common to gas up with the engine running during the same timeframe.

So far, winter has been pretty mild for us, this year.




Yeah I can understand that when its -70 outside. But no sympathy for the suburbanite hipster or soccer mom who has zero common sense.
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:27:31 PM
A lot of people leave the keys in the car up here.

A lot of people leave the doors to their house unlocked up here.

The criminal is the ONLY one responsible...................nobody makes them steal anything!!.................
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FLAL1A
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:28:37 PM
[Last Edit: 12/10/2010 7:31:54 PM by FLAL1A]
Originally Posted By SuperMoose:
If there is a statute against it, and the statute was designed to protect a class of citizens against a certain kind of harm and that harm occured that the class of citizens the statute was designed to protect, you have a negligence per se case.

BOO YA.


The requirement that keys not be left in a car is not intended to protect people from collisions that may result if the car is stolen and if the police initiate a chase and if the chase procedes at high speed and if the thief loses control of the car.

Actually, this is an example of the way that the prevalence of insurance distorts legal analysis. There probably aren't 3 people in the country who would find potential liability on the part of the car owner if it were likely that he would personally be hit with the bill and driven into bankruptcy.
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:29:44 PM
Originally Posted By bonnevillain:
what kind of responsible person leaves their keys in their car?


Anybody who feels like it. His car, his keys.
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:30:21 PM
Whole lot of WTF in that ruling.........and Tennessee, I am disapoint
If our government refuses to obey the constitution.....then what is treason??????
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:30:45 PM


Tennessee?
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:31:35 PM

Originally Posted By WindKnot1-1:
Originally Posted By bytor94:
Coming soon:

A man was charged today with murder, because of the gun that was stolen from his 'substandard' safe six years ago.



At least the gun owner can make the defense that he took steps to secure his weapons and the thief overcame them. Can the car owner?

It doesn't matter. NO ONE should be held responsible for the acts of a criminal that has stolen your property.


If I leave my car doors unlocked, but they have to hot wire the car (which takes all of 10 seconds) should I be responsible for them killing a family?


GET TO WORK! CHANGE is here, and there are millions waiting with their hands out, for the redistribution of YOUR wealth.

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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:32:37 PM
[Last Edit: 12/10/2010 7:33:12 PM by cadetcameron]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajBBp8rQwsA&feature=related


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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:36:04 PM
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
seems pretty reasonable actually

keys prevent unauthorized use

you fail to take the basic step of keeping somebody from driving off in your car by leaving the keys

your fault


Dude they can take it sooooo much further than that, I'm gonna threadjack now.

In 1999 we had a huge re-enlistment party for a guy I work with. Too many people got shitfaced, my wife offered to drive 3 of the shitfaced retards back to my house and they could sleep in my living room. 4 hours later, the cops KICK IN my fucking door with guns drawn screaming police yadayadayada. I have 0 idea WTF is going on, I'm completely lost, flashlights, guns, charges of communicating threats, hit and run, DUI, etc. all thrown at me.

Turns out, one of the 3 drunken fuckwits who was in my unit couldn't sleep and decided to go get a piece of ass. My car keys were hanging in the kitchen where my wife left them. He took the keys, drove to Jville whores house to get laid. She wasn't in the mood for drunken rutting so he gets pissed off and tells her he's gonna kill her. She pulls butcher knife and cuts him, he jumps in my car and runs back towards my house.

On the way he runs through a yard, takes out two trees and a stop sign, destroys my fucking car, and leaves it on the side of the road walking back to my place. The cops take her call, find the car, and raid my fucking house when I have no clue WTF is going on. Turns out I am responsible for his idiocy because my keys were "available" to him since I let the fucking twat sleep in my house. I had to get a lawyer to the tune of several grand to make my charges go away because I was just being a good Samaritan by letting him sleep in my house instead of driving home drunk and he stole my fucking car. The car however was locked in impound until after the court date, his lawyer kept postponing his date trying to get him out of it and by the time he was found guilty I owed the fucking city 10k nearly.

I said it before and I'll say it again, it's all about money be it insurance money, ticket money, tax money, fuck you money, however those cocksuckers from the gooberment can fucking screw you out of a dime or make you forfeit your property so they can sell it they will.

I have NEVER done a "good deed" like that again thanks to that cocksucker. Even the idiot motherfucking Gunny I worked for at the time was trying to charge me under the UCMJ for it because he was a worthless cunt trying to make a name for himself in a new unit by showing he was a hard ass. Thank God the SgtMaj we had knew me well enough he made those charges disappear and had me orders to a new unit in about 5 days so I could get away from that mess.
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floridahunter07
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:38:09 PM
[Last Edit: 12/10/2010 7:39:38 PM by floridahunter07]
While leaving your keys in your car is retarded and in my opinion if you're that dumb you deserve to have your shit crashed, but you are NOT responsible. Just like you are not responsible if some dirtbag steals your handgun and uses it to shoot Jose over in the hood.

People in Tennessee still fuck their sisters, what do you expect?

(I have family there, I am allowed to make this remark, plus I don't have a sister )
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:39:21 PM
Derp.

Justice system. Is. Flawed.
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:40:53 PM
I'm kinda on the fence about it. While you can't really be responsible for what someone else does, making it stupid easy for that person to start that chain of events DOES place some amount of responsibility on you.


Lesson being - Always lock your doors, don't leave anything of value in your car and take your fucking keys with you.

"It will never happen to me" is the most stupid reasoning anyone ever came up with for avoiding responsibility.
Who is John Galt?
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:44:36 PM
Originally Posted By MK4Mod0:
A lot of people leave the keys in the car up here.

A lot of people leave the doors to their house unlocked up here.

The criminal is the ONLY one responsible...................nobody makes them steal anything!!.................



Eggfuckingxatly!!!

Passing the buck to the victim is horse shit. There are a lot of "conservatives" here who subscribe to a very fucked up way of thinking about anything other than guns. I guess anything goes as long as it's easy right? I mean it was just so TEMPTING to break that window and steal that flatscreen, it wasn't even barred up. And you know, if there is a camera just left in a seat somewhere with no alarm, who in their right mind would charge a pedo with making the kiddie porn? It's OBVIOUSLY the original owners fault for leaving a camera where it might be stolen and used to film the exploitation of a child. Hell that kid would have never been touched without that easily stolen camera.


Go watch some more TV folks, it won't be long and they'll have you convinced that the only way to save the country is the just have all money given to the gooberment and they will allot you what they think you need out of your paychecks. I mean if you have too much, you might get sloppy and leave your keys in your car. Better yet, let's just ban cars for the children and your government taxi will be here shortly (fees deducted from the money we were going to allow you to have this week of course).........
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Posted: 12/10/2010 7:57:34 PM
This thread makes me sad.
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Posted: 12/10/2010 8:37:43 PM
Originally Posted By floridahunter07:
While leaving your keys in your car is retarded and in my opinion if you're that dumb you deserve to have your shit crashed, but you are NOT responsible. Just like you are not responsible if some dirtbag steals your handgun and uses it to shoot Jose over in the hood.

People in Tennessee still fuck their sisters, what do you expect?

(I have family there, I am allowed to make this remark, plus I don't have a sister )


That's not what your aunt said last night.
TN.........The Patron State of Shooting Stuff
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Old Cars Need Love Too
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Posted: 12/10/2010 8:38:58 PM
Man, this thread is busting at the seams with fail.
Push-Rod Driver and 1911 Shooter. Old Tech is the best. Owed to Gun_Crank
swingset
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Posted: 12/10/2010 8:47:01 PM

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
I'm kinda on the fence about it. While you can't really be responsible for what someone else does, making it stupid easy for that person to start that chain of events DOES place some amount of responsibility on you.


Lesson being - Always lock your doors, don't leave anything of value in your car and take your fucking keys with you.

"It will never happen to me" is the most stupid reasoning anyone ever came up with for avoiding responsibility.

Do you lock up the propane tank on your grill? Few people do.

I can make a bomb that will kill more people than I can with a gun out of it, waltzing right onto your property to take it where you didn't even bother to padlock it to a proper cement slab.

How about baseball equipment? Ever have your kids leave a bat in the yard? I can crush the skulls of 20 hookers with that aluminum killing machine.

Your kid guilty of murder?

Come on. The criminal is 100% responsible for taking something that doesn't belong to him, both for the theft and for the misdeeds after the fact. The person who neglected to lock up everything in their possession is not the bad guy, never will be the bad guy.

I can't believe this is even a debate.
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