Clint Smith- "I'd Take The Forward Assist Off !" - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Clint Smith- "I'd Take The Forward Assist Off !" (Page 1 of 5)

Posted: 5/11/2010 4:45:50 AM EDT

Last night watching Personal Defense TV and Clint Smith is running through a carbine Scenario when he mentions that if it were up to him he would'nt have a FA on his AR. I have never had to use mine, but why would he say something like that? I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Posted: 5/11/2010 4:46:52 AM EDT

[#1]

I have no idea why he would say that.

Posted: 5/11/2010 4:49:35 AM EDT

[#2]

Clint Smith can remove his FA if he wants. I'll leave mine in place.

Posted: 5/11/2010 4:50:37 AM EDT

[#3]

I think you can order Vltor MUR's without them. I like having it there though, as Im a lefty and the more shit between the ejection port and my face the happier I generally am.

Posted: 5/11/2010 4:51:01 AM EDT

[#4]

I believe Clint's opinion is: "If I keep the rifle clean, the only reason a round wouldn't chamber is if I have a bad round. If I have bad round, why would I want to FORCE it into the chamber."
I always hit the FA after letting the bolt go forward.

Posted: 5/11/2010 4:56:11 AM EDT

[#5]

Well, you can do the same thing by putting your thumb on the cutout on the side of the bolt carrier and pushing in. Myself I always tap the forward assist after chambering a round, force of habit that doesnt hurt anything.

Posted: 5/11/2010 4:58:17 AM EDT

[#6]

I've never had to use mine - that I know of. Because I always use it.

Usually after a press check, or loading a new mag (except during actual firing, magazine change, etc.)

Habit from USMC boot, probably.

It still drives me nuts if the ejection port cover is open.

Posted: 5/11/2010 4:58:56 AM EDT

[#7]

I have a lightweight without one. It is very nice.

Posted: 5/11/2010 4:59:25 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
I believe Clint's opinion is: "If I keep the rifle clean, the only reason a round wouldn't chamber is if I have a bad round. If I have bad round, why would I want to FORCE it into the chamber."

+1 Been shooting ARs for 20years. never once needed a FA. but i have seen guns damaged from forced rounds using the FA.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:04:03 AM EDT

[#9]

Better to have and not need in my opinion.

However, we got by in the Air Force for over 30 years without them on our weapons. Quite a few saw serious use in Vietnam.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:06:56 AM EDT

[#10]

meh. he can take his off

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:09:39 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
I've never had to use mine - that I know of. Because I always use it.

Usually after a press check, or loading a new mag (except during actual firing, magazine change, etc.)

Habit from USMC boot, probably.

It still drives me nuts if the ejection port cover is open.

Same.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:16:01 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

I've never had to use mine - that I know of. Because I always use it.

Usually after a press check, or loading a new mag (except during actual firing, magazine change, etc.)

Habit from USMC boot, probably.

It still drives me nuts if the ejection port cover is open.

While coaching, it drove me nuts to watch Marines wasting time by losing focus on what they are supposed to be doing, instead fumbling with closing the ejection port door in the middle, as in between the magazine changes, of their rapid fire strings.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:16:12 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I believe Clint's opinion is: "If I keep the rifle clean, the only reason a round wouldn't chamber is if I have a bad round. If I have bad round, why would I want to FORCE it into the chamber."

+1 Been shooting ARs for 20years. never once needed a FA. but i have seen guns damaged from forced rounds using the FA.

That. Does nothing to help, but can make things worse.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:17:28 AM EDT

[#14]

Well, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:18:51 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
I have a lightweight without one. It is very nice.

What do you like more about it without the FA?

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:19:17 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I believe Clint's opinion is: "If I keep the rifle clean, the only reason a round wouldn't chamber is if I have a bad round. If I have bad round, why would I want to FORCE it into the chamber."

+1 Been shooting ARs for 20years. never once needed a FA. but i have seen guns damaged from forced rounds using the FA.

Interesting, never knew that.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:19:22 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I've never had to use mine - that I know of. Because I always use it.

Usually after a press check, or loading a new mag (except during actual firing, magazine change, etc.)

Habit from USMC boot, probably.

It still drives me nuts if the ejection port cover is open.

While coaching, it drove me nuts to watch Marines wasting time by losing focus on what they are supposed to be doing, instead fumbling with closing the ejection port door in the middle, as in between the magazine changes, of their rapid fire strings.

http://turbid.com/images/goofy/wtf-startrek.jpg

LOL WUT.

My PMI would have fucking ridiculed me mercilessly.

Sgt. Robles would not have been amused.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:23:22 AM EDT

[#18]

I trust my slick-side upper as much as the standard FA equipped ones. If a round won't chamber, eject and inspect.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:30:15 AM EDT

[#19]

The original design did not have a FA. It was added at the insistence of the Army.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:34:21 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Last night watching Personal Defense TV and Clint Smith is running through a carbine Scenario when he mentions that if it were up to him he would'nt have a FA on his AR. I have never had to use mine, but why would he say something like that? I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

I can tell you exactly why he says that.

Clint often says, "If that round doesn't want to go into that chamber, why in the world would I want to force it in there? Just eject it and chamber the next round."

You might not agree, but that's his reasoning.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:36:57 AM EDT

[#21]

Try to quietly chamber a round and see how much luck you have without a foward assist.
If don't see the need to ever chamber a round quietly, imagine you are in a patrol base and you just reassembled your weapon after cleaning.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:39:14 AM EDT

[#22]

there are more benifits to a fa than just jamming the bolt in on a bad round. while they may be debateable for the average guy it adds nothing to the cost

the more i see clint on tv making these comments and things like suggesting birdshot the less inclined i am to take training from him.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:39:16 AM EDT

[#23]

DPMS Sportical doesn't have one. I don't miss it. Never used it on my other ones.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:39:56 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Try to quietly chamber a round and see how much luck you have without a foward assist.
If don't see the need to ever chamber a round quietly, imagine you are in a patrol base and you just reassembled your weapon after cleaning.

at night?

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:40:24 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Last night watching Personal Defense TV and Clint Smith is running through a carbine Scenario when he mentions that if it were up to him he would'nt have a FA on his AR. I have never had to use mine, but why would he say something like that? I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

I've never had to use the FA on my AR at the range, but in the Army when you are in a situation where the weapon is going to get dirty no matter what... I used it several times.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:40:31 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Try to quietly chamber a round and see how much luck you have without a foward assist.
If don't see the need to ever chamber a round quietly, imagine you are in a patrol base and you just reassembled your weapon after cleaning.

It can be done in the same manner as the FAL and G3. You push forward on the side of the carrier through the ejection port.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:43:09 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Try to quietly chamber a round and see how much luck you have without a foward assist.
If don't see the need to ever chamber a round quietly, imagine you are in a patrol base and you just reassembled your weapon after cleaning.

It can be done in the same manner as the FAL and G3. You push forward on the side of the carrier through the ejection port.

yeah but with a foward assist you won't get your hands dirty.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:43:31 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Try to quietly chamber a round and see how much luck you have without a foward assist.
If don't see the need to ever chamber a round quietly, imagine you are in a patrol base and you just reassembled your weapon after cleaning.

at night?

At anytime.. patrol base is quiet time.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:44:32 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Try to quietly chamber a round and see how much luck you have without a foward assist.
If don't see the need to ever chamber a round quietly, imagine you are in a patrol base and you just reassembled your weapon after cleaning.

If you chamber the round normally, it is likely the BG will think it's a shotgun being racked... and he will run away.

The FA is kinda like the human appendix.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:45:28 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Try to quietly chamber a round and see how much luck you have without a foward assist.
If don't see the need to ever chamber a round quietly, imagine you are in a patrol base and you just reassembled your weapon after cleaning.

It can be done in the same manner as the FAL and G3. You push forward on the side of the carrier through the ejection port.

yeah but with a foward assist you won't get your hands dirty.

You just cleaned your weapon. Your hands better be dirty.

This is a trick I wouldn't want to try if the rifle was hot though. It is definitely less convenient as well.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:46:15 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Well, you can do the same thing by putting your thumb on the cutout on the side of the bolt carrier and pushing in.

How hot does that area get?

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:46:54 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Try to quietly chamber a round and see how much luck you have without a foward assist.
If don't see the need to ever chamber a round quietly, imagine you are in a patrol base and you just reassembled your weapon after cleaning.

at night?

At anytime.. patrol base is quiet time.

twas a tongue in cheek reference to the "greatest AR invention evah" thread.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:46:55 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
The original design did not have a FA. It was added at the insistence of the Army.

...and a lot of civilian trainers out there like to make a name for themselves by going against what the Army does or teaches.

EVERY SINGLE pistol, rifle, and machine gun I have ever used OTHER than the M16/AR series has had a means to push the bolt all the way into battery - usually the charging handle does this. Why it is suddenly do damaging when the M16 does is beyond me. The whole sticking your finger into the groove in the bolt carrier through the ejection port has gotta to be the most ridiculous nonsense I have ever heard taught. All the concepts about fine versus gross motor skills are tossed out the window with this one. What's next - going back to using two fingers to pull slides back on pistols?

If I pull the slide back to check to make sure there is not round, or a round has fed, I want a way to securely return it to battery. I am not going to simply eject the round, or stick my finger through the ejection port, when a forward assist works so much more effectively.

Sheesh, I need to make a website with this rant and just post a link to it each time this topic comes up.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:46:55 AM EDT

[#34]

I have my FA rigged to summon my nurse.

Can Clint not buy a reciever without a forward assist?

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:47:14 AM EDT

[#35]

I personally wouldn't own a upper without a FA.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:48:13 AM EDT

[#36]

Clint should buy himself an AR-10.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:55:52 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Last night watching Personal Defense TV and Clint Smith is running through a carbine Scenario when he mentions that if it were up to him he would'nt have a FA on his AR. I have never had to use mine, but why would he say something like that? I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

I can tell you exactly why he says that.

Clint often says, "If that round doesn't want to go into that chamber, why in the world would I want to force it in there? Just eject it and chamber the next round."

You might not agree, but that's his reasoning.

Stoner did not want the FA on the M16 either.

It's not like a bolt action where you have huge camming power. A bolt gun can literally resize a bad round.

Anyway, the idea is, if you use the FA and the round still doesn't fully chamber, you're screwed.

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:56:56 AM EDT

[#38]

You can't perform SPORTS without one, it becomes SPORS...How is a stupid private going to remember that?

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:57:41 AM EDT

[#39]

whatacountry! we can chose if we want one or not.. it's FA for me, please...

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:59:26 AM EDT

[#40]

I hang out at a small gun shop in Connecticut.

Discussion came up on the use of the FA and an older gentleman offered that he was the worlds top expert on FA

Seems he was working at Colt back in the day when some government type decided a FA was necessary and his job was to F up ammo to a point where it could be used to test the designs of different styles of FAs. He claimed that it was a real stinker to mess up ammo to the point where it would be reliable in its ability to not chamber in a m16! Guess what he thought of the need for a FA?

As I said he was a real gentleman an a pleasure to chat with

Posted: 5/11/2010 5:59:28 AM EDT

[#41]

FA is useful when a person pulls the charging handle but forgets to put the buffer and spring back in after disassembling.

Not that I have ever done that. But if I did, it would be the only time I ever 'needed' to use the FA (still do after mag changes, probably unnecessarily).

But I just don't see the downside in having one.

Posted: 5/11/2010 6:02:48 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
I trust my slick-side upper as much as the standard FA equipped ones. If a round won't chamber, eject and inspect.

this +...

Posted: 5/11/2010 6:03:31 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
The original design did not have a FA. It was added at the insistence of the Army.

...this...

A solution to a non-problem.

Posted: 5/11/2010 6:05:57 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
The original design did not have a FA. It was added at the insistence of the Army.

And at the time they even admitted it was for psychological reasons

Posted: 5/11/2010 6:07:33 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
You can't perform SPORTS without one, it becomes SPORS...How is a stupid private going to remember that?

We teach tap, rack, bang now.

Posted: 5/11/2010 6:08:28 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
I believe Clint's opinion is: "If I keep the rifle clean, the only reason a round wouldn't chamber is if I have a bad round. If I have bad round, why would I want to FORCE it into the chamber."
I always hit the FA after letting the bolt go forward.

I am sure that is the case, however, I have had a couple times due to clumsiness the bolt did not seat 100% and rather then recharge the rifle, SMACK on the FA and done. bang bang bang.

Having to use FA does not always = dirty / bad ammo.

Posted: 5/11/2010 6:09:53 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Try to quietly chamber a round and see how much luck you have without a foward assist.
If don't see the need to ever chamber a round quietly, imagine you are in a patrol base and you just reassembled your weapon after cleaning.

oh, yeah this too

Posted: 5/11/2010 6:10:46 AM EDT

[#48]

I shot a M16 in SP1 config about a week ago.

It didn't have a forward assist and......it needed one. One of the few times I dropped the CH and the bolt didn't fully seat.

It was weird that it would happen the first time I was shooting a AR type weapon without one.

ETA what happened was the owner of this rifle had old mag wrapped in electrical tape and it didn't fully seat. We took the tape off reinserted the mag and it functioned flawlessly.

Posted: 5/11/2010 6:13:13 AM EDT

[#49]

I have used it several times. No big deal, easier than re-charging.

Posted: 5/11/2010 6:13:15 AM EDT

[#50]

I use mine all the time to slowly chamber the first round and not have to worry about bullet setback, dimpling the primer or an AD due to the floating firing pin, etc..

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Clint Smith- "I'd Take The Forward Assist Off !" (Page 1 of 5)

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