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Link Posted: 5/3/2010 7:49:25 PM EDT
Pg 2
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 7:50:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
Pg 2


Opportunistic harlot









Link Posted: 5/3/2010 7:51:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2010 7:53:22 PM EDT by HK_Shooter_03]
Works for me:

http://www.youtube.com/studentshooters

Heck, I was doing it before Chris Costa was popular and other people were doing it before I was born!
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 7:52:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By outofstep:
Originally Posted By Compass:

Originally Posted By outofstep:
Originally Posted By natedog375:
So they can sell these .


Ding ding diing


He isn't using one in that photo.


And? Photo from before product release. Product to justify stance.


Pretty fuckin smart of the Magpul bastards to come up with this stance years before their company even existed, so as to oneday be able to sale a new tyoe of foregrip.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 7:53:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GutWrench:
Originally Posted By CanteTinza:

Originally Posted By GutWrench:
Because he gets paid to.

He gets paid to what?




To shoot that way...

What way are you referring too?
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 7:55:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2010 7:57:05 PM EDT by bloodsport2885]
That half-assed chicken wing is a bitch indoors.

Because 3-gun has become the ultimate word in practical shooting.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 7:58:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:
That half-assed chicken wing is a bitch indoors.

Because 3-gun has become the ultimate word in practical shooting.

Works great for shooting paper - that's all I can attest to.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 7:59:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:
That half-assed chicken wing is a bitch indoors.

Because 3-gun has become the ultimate word in practical shooting.


No but almost all modern technique wether rifle or hangun has come from gun games. So you're half way right. Thanks for Playing.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:00:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By E-Mag:
Does anyone know where I can get one of those flash hiders


They cost more than a Glock.


I know I was just kidding I wish they would have made one out of a normal substance
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:01:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2010 8:02:54 PM EDT by Currahee]


meh, it's nothing new. I was taught to shoot that way on a "quick fire" course in the Army in 1989. I point my index my finger along the seem of the fore grip and point it at the targets instead of my thumb, the thumb is wrapped around the HG like Bennie there. I also let both elbows drop to where they are comfortable instead of forcing them into any position. I tried VFGs and other positions etc but when I started watching three gunners I felt vindicated. When I got a shot timer I understood.

It's been fun watching the evolution of the "proper fighting stance" over the last 6 years on ARFCOM... Lets see it was VFG with the hand wrapped around like holding a beer can. (lots of machined aluminum VFGs got sold, the molded plastic WILL NOT DO, isn't your life worth $60?) Then same thing but thumb forward and lights migrating all over the place. Then the hand moved halfway onto the hand guard and "stubby" VFGs appear, the machined aluminum ones were up to $75 now. Now, what's old is new, with a new AR accessory to justify that railed forearm.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:05:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:
That half-assed chicken wing is a bitch indoors.

Because 3-gun has become the ultimate word in practical shooting.


No but almost all modern technique wether rifle or hangun has come from gun games. So you're half way right. Thanks for Playing.
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, but the 3-gun technique wars have little to do with practical use. Somebody decides a stance works for them so they market it as a brand new, DVD quality idea. Nothing more

Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:07:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By WhenceCameYou:
Wasn't this guy in the Coast Guard? He never really did any real combat did he? Have no clue honestly. I don't understand the obsession.


While I don't know what Costa did in any specific way, what kind of action he may have seen, he was with some mighty interesting units in his CG time. Reading up on PSU 302 and Taclet North doesn't give a whole lot of insight, but it does sound rather different than what most think of as "normal" CG duty.

It also seems kind of odd to me how many people single Costa out for his use of that grip, but not Haley. Is it because they latch onto Costa's perceived lack of "BTDT"?

Myself, I'm trying out the grip, although I have some habits that are proving hard to break before I can really get an idea how it'll work for me. I'm keeping an open mind... although I will keep a regular VFG for the really short guns, the AFG just doesn't seem to work with those.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:08:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:
That half-assed chicken wing is a bitch indoors.

Because 3-gun has become the ultimate word in practical shooting.


No but almost all modern technique wether rifle or hangun has come from gun games. So you're half way right. Thanks for Playing.
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, but the 3-gun technique wars have little to do with practical use. Somebody decides a stance works for them so they market it as a brand new, DVD quality idea. Nothing more



Sounds like a genius marketing idea. Only nobody ever said it was a brand new technique, Nor did they say it was the only way to do anything. Have you always just made shit up as you go, or is this something new for you?
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:10:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shade_1313:
Originally Posted By WhenceCameYou:
Wasn't this guy in the Coast Guard? He never really did any real combat did he? Have no clue honestly. I don't understand the obsession.


While I don't know what Costa did in any specific way, what kind of action he may have seen, he was with some mighty interesting units in his CG time. Reading up on PSU 302 and Taclet North doesn't give a whole lot of insight, but it does sound rather different than what most think of as "normal" CG duty.

It also seems kind of odd to me how many people single Costa out for his use of that grip, but not Haley. Is it because they latch onto Costa's perceived lack of "BTDT"?

Myself, I'm trying out the grip, although I have some habits that are proving hard to break before I can really get an idea how it'll work for me. I'm keeping an open mind... although I will keep a regular VFG for the really short guns, the AFG just doesn't seem to work with those.


Then their is the other half of Magpul Dynamics. Travis Haley, he uses the same stance but its always Costa's.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:11:18 PM EDT
You guys crack me up.

I resisted that grip style for a while, but after I switched, all my follow shots are much faster and more accurate.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:12:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2010 8:13:16 PM EDT by bloodsport2885]

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:
That half-assed chicken wing is a bitch indoors.

Because 3-gun has become the ultimate word in practical shooting.


No but almost all modern technique wether rifle or hangun has come from gun games. So you're half way right. Thanks for Playing.
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, but the 3-gun technique wars have little to do with practical use. Somebody decides a stance works for them so they market it as a brand new, DVD quality idea. Nothing more



Sounds like a genius marketing idea. Only nobody ever said it was a brand new technique, Nor did they say it was the only way to do anything. Have you always just made shit up as you go, or is this something new for you?

Look, I don't mean to interrupt your man-love for your specific flavor of tactical 3-gun learning, but I was talking about the situation as a whole, not your beloved. Many people accept one icon as the god of all that is carbine and it truly is pathetic. Have you always been confrontational about your crush? I have fallen afoul of questioning one of these gods.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:12:21 PM EDT
i tried it... I cant sand it.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:13:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Shakes525:
Wow this again?

It's the same reason guys like this use that hold:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNpZAbpgdYQ



And we have a winner. I moved to the same grip after my own experimentation. I have found it halves my split times and after some work it's ok out to 150 yrds. Unless your using it for high power competition (or similar) the AR is a combat arm for fast engagement, transition and the ability to stay on target for multiple rounds.
If you watch long enough to see the weapon camera footage you will not that muzzle rise is almost absent allowing the faster follow up shots and the target transitions are smooth and precise. Get some weapon camera footage of someone using a magwell grip and you will not see the same thing. You will also note that the Noveskey shooters don't seem to be slowed down as the move through some tight quarters.

My own match video, not half as fast or smooth as the Noveskey team.
Practical rifle match

Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:14:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:
That half-assed chicken wing is a bitch indoors.

Because 3-gun has become the ultimate word in practical shooting.


No but almost all modern technique wether rifle or hangun has come from gun games. So you're half way right. Thanks for Playing.
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, but the 3-gun technique wars have little to do with practical use. Somebody decides a stance works for them so they market it as a brand new, DVD quality idea. Nothing more




Everyone talks shit about Chris Costa, but no one talks bad about Kyle Lamb... Yet here he is doing the same thing. But what would he know right?

Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:16:31 PM EDT
It's schtick.

You remember costa
You are talking about costa

The schtick works
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:16:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:
Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:
That half-assed chicken wing is a bitch indoors.

Because 3-gun has become the ultimate word in practical shooting.


No but almost all modern technique wether rifle or hangun has come from gun games. So you're half way right. Thanks for Playing.
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, but the 3-gun technique wars have little to do with practical use. Somebody decides a stance works for them so they market it as a brand new, DVD quality idea. Nothing more




Everyone talks shit about Chris Costa, but no one talks bad about Kyle Lamb... Yet here he is doing the same thing. But what would he know right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaCpOt9xVy4



shhh silly boy, lighting fast COM hits have nothing to do with the real world
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:20:19 PM EDT
I like that stance. It's pretty stable, but nothing exactly earth-shattering compared to any other grip.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:22:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:
That half-assed chicken wing is a bitch indoors.

Because 3-gun has become the ultimate word in practical shooting.


No but almost all modern technique wether rifle or hangun has come from gun games. So you're half way right. Thanks for Playing.
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, but the 3-gun technique wars have little to do with practical use. Somebody decides a stance works for them so they market it as a brand new, DVD quality idea. Nothing more



Sounds like a genius marketing idea. Only nobody ever said it was a brand new technique, Nor did they say it was the only way to do anything. Have you always just made shit up as you go, or is this something new for you?

Look, I don't mean to interrupt your man-love for your specific flavor of tactical 3-gun learning, but I was talking about the situation as a whole, not your beloved. Many people accept one icon as the god of all that is carbine and it truly is pathetic. Have you always been confrontational about your crush? I have fallen afoul of questioning one of these gods.


I dont use this technique, though I was taught it and did use it for awhile years ago. You can say what you want, but when it's full of the stupid, do not get sideways when someone corrects you. This is the technique taught by the AMU in CQB schools in Afghanistan and Iraq, at least that is what they showed on the special they did on Shooting USA about it. There is more than one way of doing the same thing, what works for me, may not work for you. You lambasting something you dont understand only hurts others who have not tried this technique and may not do to the crap some people spew in GD because hating on Magpul is cool with a certain sect on arfcom.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:24:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:
Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:
That half-assed chicken wing is a bitch indoors.

Because 3-gun has become the ultimate word in practical shooting.


No but almost all modern technique wether rifle or hangun has come from gun games. So you're half way right. Thanks for Playing.
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, but the 3-gun technique wars have little to do with practical use. Somebody decides a stance works for them so they market it as a brand new, DVD quality idea. Nothing more




Everyone talks shit about Chris Costa, but no one talks bad about Kyle Lamb... Yet here he is doing the same thing. But what would he know right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaCpOt9xVy4


Obviously he is trying to sell Vtac forearms.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:24:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By natedog375:
So they can sell these .


This.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:27:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:
Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:
That half-assed chicken wing is a bitch indoors.

Because 3-gun has become the ultimate word in practical shooting.


No but almost all modern technique wether rifle or hangun has come from gun games. So you're half way right. Thanks for Playing.
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, but the 3-gun technique wars have little to do with practical use. Somebody decides a stance works for them so they market it as a brand new, DVD quality idea. Nothing more




Everyone talks shit about Chris Costa, but no one talks bad about Kyle Lamb... Yet here he is doing the same thing. But what would he know right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaCpOt9xVy4


Obviously he is trying to sell Vtac forearms.




Not sure if serious...

I think a better way of putting it is "he is showing the consumer why his grip combined with the longer forearm is superior".
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:28:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2010 8:29:44 PM EDT by lange22250]
Originally Posted By DarkCharisma:
I like that stance. It's pretty stable, but nothing exactly earth-shattering compared to any other grip.


At this point nothing is or will likely be earth shattering. Top scores these days are separated by seconds or less. The edge is going to the people who can shave off a hundredth of a second off there split times and transitions. That same speed will trickle out to the real world because fast center of mass hits end fights and save lives.
If you want to cling to tradition you'll be beat by the innovators, it's true in every aspect of competition friendly or otherwise.

Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:29:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:
Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:
That half-assed chicken wing is a bitch indoors.

Because 3-gun has become the ultimate word in practical shooting.


No but almost all modern technique wether rifle or hangun has come from gun games. So you're half way right. Thanks for Playing.
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, but the 3-gun technique wars have little to do with practical use. Somebody decides a stance works for them so they market it as a brand new, DVD quality idea. Nothing more




Everyone talks shit about Chris Costa, but no one talks bad about Kyle Lamb... Yet here he is doing the same thing. But what would he know right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaCpOt9xVy4


Obviously he is trying to sell Vtac forearms.




Not sure if serious...

I think a better way of putting it is "he is showing the consumer why his grip combined with the longer forearm is superior".

Dude your sarcasm meter is seriously broken
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:30:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:
Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:
That half-assed chicken wing is a bitch indoors.

Because 3-gun has become the ultimate word in practical shooting.


No but almost all modern technique wether rifle or hangun has come from gun games. So you're half way right. Thanks for Playing.
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, but the 3-gun technique wars have little to do with practical use. Somebody decides a stance works for them so they market it as a brand new, DVD quality idea. Nothing more




Everyone talks shit about Chris Costa, but no one talks bad about Kyle Lamb... Yet here he is doing the same thing. But what would he know right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaCpOt9xVy4


Obviously he is trying to sell Vtac forearms.




Not sure if serious...

I think a better way of putting it is "he is showing the consumer why his grip combined with the longer forearm is superior".

Dude your sarcasm meter is seriously broken


I guess so...
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:39:41 PM EDT
This works for me.

Like others have said, it puts your support hand in the same position that it would be in if you were shooting a pistol two handed with your shoulders squared to the target. I have found it to be the most efficient way of controlling recoil and moving/stopping the rifle on command.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:39:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TexasRifleman:
The real question is, did Bennie Cooley do it first?

http://www.uspsa.org/press/Bennie_Cooley_Rifle_3Gun_2002.jpg


They mention in the Magpul DVDs how competition shooters influence the military techniques and vice versa, as well as inspire new equipment ect.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:42:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2010 8:42:55 PM EDT by FNC80]

Originally Posted By EasTexan:
i tried it... I cant sand it.

I first tried it in class, and while there was no difference when working in close, there was a noticeable difference in stability and recovery out at the 50. As for the "chicken wing" comments, the support side elbow is no further out than when presenting with a handgun.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:45:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FNC80:

Originally Posted By EasTexan:
i tried it... I cant sand it.

I first tried it in class, and while there was no difference when working in close, there was a noticeable difference in stability and recovery out at the 50. As for the "chicken wing" comments, the support side elbow is no further out than when presenting with a handgun.


I have found it to be more helpful in close since I can move from target to target much faster.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:51:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HK_Shooter_03:
Works for me:

http://www.youtube.com/studentshooters

Heck, I was doing it before Chris Costa was popular and other people were doing it before I was born!


Great video man,Thanks for posting
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:53:23 PM EDT
I was taught this stance around 2001 by a short fat black man, who shot the pants off of every Military and SWAT guy that ever came to shoot with us. It was quite comical to see him blow through stages with great ease and fluid motion, whle the buff tactical guys were struggling. You cant always judge a book by its cover.

Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:55:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:
Originally Posted By FNC80:

Originally Posted By EasTexan:
i tried it... I cant sand it.

I first tried it in class, and while there was no difference when working in close, there was a noticeable difference in stability and recovery out at the 50. As for the "chicken wing" comments, the support side elbow is no further out than when presenting with a handgun.


I have found it to be more helpful in close since I can move from target to target much faster.


Interesting. I had previously run a VFG almost fully to the rear, since the moment of inertia would be shorter, allowing faster transitions from target to target. However, this did nothing for stability, and I'd had a tough time at the 35-50 for shot recovery. I haven't shot enough to discount the forward support arm grip yet, but so far, the results are promising.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 8:58:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By outofstep:
Originally Posted By natedog375:
So they can sell these .


Ding ding diing



so why isn't he using it?
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 9:08:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Magurgle:
Originally Posted By outofstep:
Originally Posted By natedog375:
So they can sell these .


Ding ding diing



so why isn't he using it?

The logic is reversed. He was shooting like this before the AFG.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 9:10:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Noname:

If you have to ask you will never truly become a real operator...





.....................

Link Posted: 5/3/2010 9:17:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EasTexan:
i tried it... I cant sand it.


Try a rougher grit.



I'm going to give that grip a try tomorrow night.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 9:18:57 PM EDT
Meh, I've never had any issue gripping around the magazine well and keeping my elbows tight inside.

To each their own though.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 9:24:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TDCJBoss:
Meh, I've never had any issue gripping around the magazine well and keeping my elbows tight inside.

To each their own though.



less than 20 meters= this. tried the costa grip. made me feel like a douche


Link Posted: 5/3/2010 9:31:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By markfall:
Originally Posted By TDCJBoss:
Meh, I've never had any issue gripping around the magazine well and keeping my elbows tight inside.

To each their own though.



less than 20 meters= this. tried the costa grip. made me feel like a douche




I used to shoot like that too.

It does nothing for managing my rifle's recoil for follow up shots. But like you said, it works for you, and at least you get out and train with your guns.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 9:36:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:
Originally Posted By markfall:
Originally Posted By TDCJBoss:
Meh, I've never had any issue gripping around the magazine well and keeping my elbows tight inside.

To each their own though.



less than 20 meters= this. tried the costa grip. made me feel like a douche




I used to shoot like that too.

It does nothing for managing my rifle's recoil for follow up shots. But like you said, it works for you, and at least you get out and train with your guns.


Holding a rifle at the magwell is like holding a pencil by the eraser and trying to write your name with it.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 9:36:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By pavlovwolf:
That looks like a 5.56, so how much recoil is there really to mitigate, that can't be controlled with a normal, proper hold and technique?


What's a "proper" hold?

Take him to school, dude.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 9:37:00 PM EDT
What about Kyle Defoor. He is a 6 guy and uses the same technique.

http://www.kyledefoor.com/
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 9:37:09 PM EDT
These threads make me laugh...99% of Arfcommer's cant define "split" in the context of shooting multiple rounds and even less have ever heard a "beep".

Much less incoming rounds...
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 9:44:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Holding a rifle at the magwell is like holding a pencil by the eraser and trying to write your name with it.



Haha... For long range shooting its fine. I guess that would be like holding a pencil by the eraser to write a period.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 9:46:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:
Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Holding a rifle at the magwell is like holding a pencil by the eraser and trying to write your name with it.



Haha... For long range shooting its fine. I guess that would be like holding a pencil by the eraser to write a period.


its fine if you are "BLADED" to the target, not squared up to it. Totally different balance point on the rifle then.
Link Posted: 5/3/2010 9:46:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2010 9:47:17 PM EDT by MTNmyMag]
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