Marine blasts Navy dining traditions: Time to end centuries-old officer-enlisted separation on ships - Page 4

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Marine blasts Navy dining traditions: Time to end centuries-old officer-enlisted separation on ships (Page 4 of 9)

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:17:04 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It's now time for an uber-epic pit thread.

Joshki in the blue corner, wearing khaki.

Junker in the red corner, wearing dungarees.

ARE YOU READY TO RUMBLE!?

I don't care enough what junker thinks of me to play that game...

I've done this with him before. He whines a lot –– mostly about how horrible the Navy is. I made Chief in an overmanned rate in 8 years –– I'm not too worried about my credibility on the subject.

No, I'm just asking YOUR version on that subject. Not a cut-and -paste. Trying to do this without all the drama.

I don't see the need to "re-explain" what a multi-tour CMC and Fleet Master Chief has to say about the subject. She's an expert, I'll take her word for it.

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:18:18 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Actually, most other countries I have worked with are even more segregated than the Navy.

This has been my experience in more than a dozen countries across 4 continents.

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:20:37 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:

One reason is that keeping ship mates of similar ranks together is helpful in letting them talk frankly, away from the ears of subordinates or superiors, said Command Master Chief (SW/AW) JoAnn Ortloff, the top enlisted sailor with 3rd Fleet, based in San Diego.

“When I served as CMC on [the destroyer] Milius, in my particular chief mess, that’s where I would gather chiefs to discuss items or issues that the commanding officer wanted the chiefs to manage,” she said. “We had to allow for free dia logue, for brainstorming, that wouldn’t be taken out of context by a junior sailor or junior officer [who] was not aware of all of the items that came into play. With the free dialogue, in a comfort zone, without being misconstrued, we could hash out those issues within that crew and start coming up with a plan.” Sailors in today’s Navy have found this custom so appealing that on larger ships, they divide them selves into the smallest possible groups. It’s common for an aircraft carrier to have separate dining areas for its strike group commander, an admiral; the ship’s captain; ships’ officers; pilots; chiefs; first class petty officers; and sailors.

Ortloff said these kinds of arrangements are very useful: When first classes have their own mess, for example, they learn leadership and cohesiveness that come in handy when they become chiefs. Officers use their ward room for meetings and to master the protocol they’ll need to know as senior leaders. Underlying it all is a proven history of shipboard management, she said.

“ These areas where we meet and where we dine allow us to hold to those traditions ... and for us to have an environment where we can build ourselves better, and build the crew better, before we walk out that door,” Ortloff said.

OK, what about the other forces (i.e. countries) that allow much more intimate (for lack of a better word) contact between the ranks, that have proved not to be detrimental to the overall force structure?

Did you ever learn how to do any research? You have tools available. Use them. Hint. Look up "Royal Navy Customs".

First Class? Really????

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:20:47 PM EDT

[#4]

Didn't we used to have segregated units on the basis of race? Why not go back to that? After all, so many of you people argue not to 'mess with tradition.'

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:21:11 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:

One reason is that keeping ship mates of similar ranks together is helpful in letting them talk frankly, away from the ears of subordinates or superiors, said Command Master Chief (SW/AW) JoAnn Ortloff, the top enlisted sailor with 3rd Fleet, based in San Diego.

“When I served as CMC on [the destroyer] Milius, in my particular chief mess, that’s where I would gather chiefs to discuss items or issues that the commanding officer wanted the chiefs to manage,” she said. “We had to allow for free dia logue, for brainstorming, that wouldn’t be taken out of context by a junior sailor or junior officer [who] was not aware of all of the items that came into play. With the free dialogue, in a comfort zone, without being misconstrued, we could hash out those issues within that crew and start coming up with a plan.” Sailors in today’s Navy have found this custom so appealing that on larger ships, they divide them selves into the smallest possible groups. It’s common for an aircraft carrier to have separate dining areas for its strike group commander, an admiral; the ship’s captain; ships’ officers; pilots; chiefs; first class petty officers; and sailors.

Ortloff said these kinds of arrangements are very useful: When first classes have their own mess, for example, they learn leadership and cohesiveness that come in handy when they become chiefs. Officers use their ward room for meetings and to master the protocol they’ll need to know as senior leaders. Underlying it all is a proven history of shipboard management, she said.

“ These areas where we meet and where we dine allow us to hold to those traditions ... and for us to have an environment where we can build ourselves better, and build the crew better, before we walk out that door,” Ortloff said.

OK, what about the other forces (i.e. countries) that allow much more intimate (for lack of a better word) contact between the ranks, that have proved not to be detrimental to the overall force structure?

Did you ever learn how to do any research? You have tools available. Use them. Hint. Look up "Royal Navy Customs".

First Class? Really????

He said E6 –– not First Class...

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:22:27 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Didn't we used to have segregated units on the basis of race? Why not go back to that? After all, so many of you people argue not to 'mess with tradition.'

That's just straight up trolling.

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:23:45 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Didn't we used to have segregated units on the basis of race? Why not go back to that? After all, so many of you people argue not to 'mess with tradition.'

That's just straight up trolling.

No, it's the exact same. People are being separated on basis of class.

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:25:14 PM EDT

[#8]

Correct. There is a difference (E-6 vs. PO1)

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:25:16 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Didn't we used to have segregated units on the basis of race? Why not go back to that? After all, so many of you people argue not to 'mess with tradition.'

That's just straight up trolling.

No, it's the exact same. People are being separated on basis of class.

No, it isn't.

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:26:20 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:

One reason is that keeping ship mates of similar ranks together is helpful in letting them talk frankly, away from the ears of subordinates or superiors, said Command Master Chief (SW/AW) JoAnn Ortloff, the top enlisted sailor with 3rd Fleet, based in San Diego.

“When I served as CMC on [the destroyer] Milius, in my particular chief mess, that’s where I would gather chiefs to discuss items or issues that the commanding officer wanted the chiefs to manage,” she said. “We had to allow for free dia logue, for brainstorming, that wouldn’t be taken out of context by a junior sailor or junior officer [who] was not aware of all of the items that came into play. With the free dialogue, in a comfort zone, without being misconstrued, we could hash out those issues within that crew and start coming up with a plan.” Sailors in today’s Navy have found this custom so appealing that on larger ships, they divide them selves into the smallest possible groups. It’s common for an aircraft carrier to have separate dining areas for its strike group commander, an admiral; the ship’s captain; ships’ officers; pilots; chiefs; first class petty officers; and sailors.

Ortloff said these kinds of arrangements are very useful: When first classes have their own mess, for example, they learn leadership and cohesiveness that come in handy when they become chiefs. Officers use their ward room for meetings and to master the protocol they’ll need to know as senior leaders. Underlying it all is a proven history of shipboard management, she said.

“ These areas where we meet and where we dine allow us to hold to those traditions ... and for us to have an environment where we can build ourselves better, and build the crew better, before we walk out that door,” Ortloff said.

OK, what about the other forces (i.e. countries) that allow much more intimate (for lack of a better word) contact between the ranks, that have proved not to be detrimental to the overall force structure?

Did you ever learn how to do any research? You have tools available. Use them. Hint. Look up "Royal Navy Customs".

First Class? Really????

He said E6 –– not First Class...

No, just going with personal observation. No need to see what Wiki say about it. Is it possible for you two to answer without being insulting?

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:26:57 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Didn't we used to have segregated units on the basis of race? Why not go back to that? After all, so many of you people argue not to 'mess with tradition.'

That's just straight up trolling.

No, it's the exact same. People are being separated on basis of class.

The rank structure is separated for important and distinct functional purposes which are not arbitrary.
Separation by sex or race would definitely be arbitrary.

Using the term class is also improper.
Class dentoes some sort of hierachical level of worth.
The different segments of the rank structure are all equally worthy.
The mere fact that one can promote and can move between "classes" destroys the class/caste argument.

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:27:59 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:

One reason is that keeping ship mates of similar ranks together is helpful in letting them talk frankly, away from the ears of subordinates or superiors, said Command Master Chief (SW/AW) JoAnn Ortloff, the top enlisted sailor with 3rd Fleet, based in San Diego.

“When I served as CMC on [the destroyer] Milius, in my particular chief mess, that’s where I would gather chiefs to discuss items or issues that the commanding officer wanted the chiefs to manage,” she said. “We had to allow for free dia logue, for brainstorming, that wouldn’t be taken out of context by a junior sailor or junior officer [who] was not aware of all of the items that came into play. With the free dialogue, in a comfort zone, without being misconstrued, we could hash out those issues within that crew and start coming up with a plan.” Sailors in today’s Navy have found this custom so appealing that on larger ships, they divide them selves into the smallest possible groups. It’s common for an aircraft carrier to have separate dining areas for its strike group commander, an admiral; the ship’s captain; ships’ officers; pilots; chiefs; first class petty officers; and sailors.

Ortloff said these kinds of arrangements are very useful: When first classes have their own mess, for example, they learn leadership and cohesiveness that come in handy when they become chiefs. Officers use their ward room for meetings and to master the protocol they’ll need to know as senior leaders. Underlying it all is a proven history of shipboard management, she said.

“ These areas where we meet and where we dine allow us to hold to those traditions ... and for us to have an environment where we can build ourselves better, and build the crew better, before we walk out that door,” Ortloff said.

OK, what about the other forces (i.e. countries) that allow much more intimate (for lack of a better word) contact between the ranks, that have proved not to be detrimental to the overall force structure?

Did you ever learn how to do any research? You have tools available. Use them. Hint. Look up "Royal Navy Customs".

First Class? Really????

He said E6 –– not First Class...

No, just going with personal observation. No need to see what Wiki say about it. Is it possible for you two to answer without being insulting?

You've spent a great deal of time insulting my Navy on this forum. My responses have not been insulting to you –– I only quoted back your own words.

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:29:10 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Didn't we used to have segregated units on the basis of race? Why not go back to that? After all, so many of you people argue not to 'mess with tradition.'

That's just straight up trolling.

No, it's the exact same. People are being separated on basis of class.

No, that is true. All Black or Asian units if I'm not mistaken. the Tuskegee Squadron and the like?

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:30:21 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Correct. There is a difference.

Yeah, God forbid some former ROTC cadet has to eat with the enlisted swine on a ship.

Having separate dining accommodations based on rank? I thought we moved beyond the notion of "separate but equal'...Guess not.

I hope this SGM stirs up enough shit to end such a stupid policy.

Thank God my time spent in the military was not in an environment where such a thing would have ever occurred.

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:31:19 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Didn't we used to have segregated units on the basis of race? Why not go back to that? After all, so many of you people argue not to 'mess with tradition.'

That's just straight up trolling.

No, it's the exact same. People are being separated on basis of class.

No, it isn't.

Lol! You sound like that Monty Python skit!

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:31:28 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Didn't we used to have segregated units on the basis of race? Why not go back to that? After all, so many of you people argue not to 'mess with tradition.'

That's just straight up trolling.

No, it's the exact same. People are being separated on basis of class.

No, that is true. All Black or Asian units if I'm not mistaken. the Tuskegee Squadron and the like?

And thermodynamics strike again!

The entropy in this thread just took a huge leap.

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:31:37 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Didn't we used to have segregated units on the basis of race? Why not go back to that? After all, so many of you people argue not to 'mess with tradition.'

That's just straight up trolling.

No, it's the exact same. People are being separated on basis of class.

The rank structure is separated for important and distinct functional purposes which are not arbitrary.
Separation by sex or race would definitely be arbitrary.

Using the term class is also improper.
Class dentoes some sort of hierachical level of worth.
The different segments of the rank structure are all equally worthy.
The mere fact that one can promote and can move between "classes" destroys the class/caste argument.

Yes, I agree...but in terms of responsibilities and command roles, not in having different dining facilities.

Hell, why not have different bathrooms for officers only? Talk about reinforcing the idea of 'second class' among the enlisted.

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:32:08 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Correct. There is a difference.

Yeah, God forbid some former ROTC cadet has to eat with the enlisted swine on a ship.

Having separate dining accommodations based on rank? I thought we moved beyond the notion of "separate but equal'...Guess not.

I hope this SGM stirs up enough shit to end such a stupid policy.

Thank God my time spent in the military was not in an environment where such a thing would have ever occurred.

This SGM stirred up just about enough shit that he's probably going to be asked to retire –– and rightly so.

What was the last ship you deployed onboard?

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:33:23 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Didn't we used to have segregated units on the basis of race? Why not go back to that? After all, so many of you people argue not to 'mess with tradition.'

That's just straight up trolling.

No, it's the exact same. People are being separated on basis of class.

The rank structure is separated for important and distinct functional purposes which are not arbitrary.
Separation by sex or race would definitely be arbitrary.

Using the term class is also improper.
Class dentoes some sort of hierachical level of worth.
The different segments of the rank structure are all equally worthy.
The mere fact that one can promote and can move between "classes" destroys the class/caste argument.

Yes, I agree...but in terms of responsibilities and command roles, not in having different dining facilities.

Hell, why not have different bathrooms for officers only? Talk about reinforcing the idea of 'second class' among the enlisted.

We do.

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:33:30 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Correct. There is a difference.

Yeah, God forbid some former ROTC cadet has to eat with the enlisted swine on a ship.

Having separate dining accommodations based on rank? I thought we moved beyond the notion of "separate but equal'...Guess not.

I hope this SGM stirs up enough shit to end such a stupid policy.

Thank God my time spent in the military was not in an environment where such a thing would have ever occurred.

This SGM stirred up just about enough shit that he's probably going to be asked to retire –– and rightly so.

He should be forced out for not agreeing with the Navy's separate but equal policy? Sorry, but I think it is safe to say that 'tradition' might not be around much longer.

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:34:46 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Didn't we used to have segregated units on the basis of race? Why not go back to that? After all, so many of you people argue not to 'mess with tradition.'

That's just straight up trolling.

No, it's the exact same. People are being separated on basis of class.

The rank structure is separated for important and distinct functional purposes which are not arbitrary.
Separation by sex or race would definitely be arbitrary.

Using the term class is also improper.
Class dentoes some sort of hierachical level of worth.
The different segments of the rank structure are all equally worthy.
The mere fact that one can promote and can move between "classes" destroys the class/caste argument.

Yes, I agree...but in terms of responsibilities and command roles, not in having different dining facilities.

Hell, why not have different bathrooms for officers only? Talk about reinforcing the idea of 'second class' among the enlisted.

We do.

LOL

And in other news, the Navy has just taken a title away from the Air Force...

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:36:16 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Correct. There is a difference.

Yeah, God forbid some former ROTC cadet has to eat with the enlisted swine on a ship.

Having separate dining accommodations based on rank? I thought we moved beyond the notion of "separate but equal'...Guess not.

I hope this SGM stirs up enough shit to end such a stupid policy.

Thank God my time spent in the military was not in an environment where such a thing would have ever occurred.

This SGM stirred up just about enough shit that he's probably going to be asked to retire –– and rightly so.

He should be forced out for not agreeing with the Navy's separate but equal policy? Sorry, but I think it is safe to say that 'tradition' might not be around much longer.

First, you need to quit race baiting.

Second, the way he went about this was inappropriate, wrong, out of line, and unacceptable for a Senior Enlisted Marine.

And again –– what ships have you deployed onboard?

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:38:27 PM EDT

[#23]

Oh, come on! The 'tradition' carried on today was because of class structure from the formation of the armed services. What the fuck! How does any of that escape you?

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:38:30 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Correct. There is a difference.

Yeah, God forbid some former ROTC cadet has to eat with the enlisted swine on a ship.

Having separate dining accommodations based on rank? I thought we moved beyond the notion of "separate but equal'...Guess not.

I hope this SGM stirs up enough shit to end such a stupid policy.

Thank God my time spent in the military was not in an environment where such a thing would have ever occurred.

Sorry Poink. But smokin the weed was not an authorized "environment".

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:38:58 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Didn't we used to have segregated units on the basis of race? Why not go back to that? After all, so many of you people argue not to 'mess with tradition.'

That's just straight up trolling.

No, it's the exact same. People are being separated on basis of class.

The rank structure is separated for important and distinct functional purposes which are not arbitrary.
Separation by sex or race would definitely be arbitrary.

Using the term class is also improper.
Class dentoes some sort of hierachical level of worth.
The different segments of the rank structure are all equally worthy.
The mere fact that one can promote and can move between "classes" destroys the class/caste argument.

Yes, I agree...but in terms of responsibilities and command roles, not in having different dining facilities.

Hell, why not have different bathrooms for officers only? Talk about reinforcing the idea of 'second class' among the enlisted.

We do.

LOL

And in other news, the Navy has just taken a title away from the Air Force...

Let's not let this devolve into an entirely appropriate failings of the Air Force thread...there's simply too many to adequately address in this forum.

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:39:08 PM EDT

[#26]

Damn slow at sea servers - sorry for the double tap

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:41:10 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Let's not let this devolve into an entirely appropriate failings of the Air Force thread...there's simply too many to adequately address in this forum.

Good point...

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:43:50 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Correct. There is a difference.

Yeah, God forbid some former ROTC cadet has to eat with the enlisted swine on a ship.

Having separate dining accommodations based on rank? I thought we moved beyond the notion of "separate but equal'...Guess not.

I hope this SGM stirs up enough shit to end such a stupid policy.

Thank God my time spent in the military was not in an environment where such a thing would have ever occurred.

This SGM stirred up just about enough shit that he's probably going to be asked to retire –– and rightly so.

He should be forced out for not agreeing with the Navy's separate but equal policy? Sorry, but I think it is safe to say that 'tradition' might not be around much longer.

First, you need to quit race baiting.

Second, the way he went about this was inappropriate, wrong, out of line, and unacceptable for a Senior Enlisted Marine.

And again –– what ships have you deployed onboard?

How is highlighting and drawing an apt description of the Navy's 'separate but equal' policies race baiting? Is it because they are damn near identical in nature to one another?

And I never deployed on a ship. All of my deployments have actually been somewhere on the ground within a shitty place where things are going on.

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:44:33 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Correct. There is a difference.

Yeah, God forbid some former ROTC cadet has to eat with the enlisted swine on a ship.

Having separate dining accommodations based on rank? I thought we moved beyond the notion of "separate but equal'...Guess not.

I hope this SGM stirs up enough shit to end such a stupid policy.

Thank God my time spent in the military was not in an environment where such a thing would have ever occurred.

Sorry Poink. But smokin the weed was not an authorized "environment".

I don't even understand what you were trying to say?

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:44:45 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Damn slow at sea servers - sorry for the double tap

Damn that Al Gore invention!

I did not have that technology available before I retired.

It's good that my daughter has it though! I do like being able to IM her when the ship is underway. Life is good

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:45:21 PM EDT

[#31]

Well, thanks for you guys service. If you're ever in the P'cola area, drinks on me. See you around the forums.

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:46:42 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Well, thanks for you guys service. If you're ever in the P'cola area, drinks on me. See you around the forums.

Only if it's Don P. for the O's in the VIP and PBR for the enlisted under a highway overpass - you know, to keep with 'tradition'

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:47:26 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Correct. There is a difference.

Yeah, God forbid some former ROTC cadet has to eat with the enlisted swine on a ship.

Having separate dining accommodations based on rank? I thought we moved beyond the notion of "separate but equal'...Guess not.

I hope this SGM stirs up enough shit to end such a stupid policy.

Thank God my time spent in the military was not in an environment where such a thing would have ever occurred.

This SGM stirred up just about enough shit that he's probably going to be asked to retire –– and rightly so.

He should be forced out for not agreeing with the Navy's separate but equal policy? Sorry, but I think it is safe to say that 'tradition' might not be around much longer.

First, you need to quit race baiting.

Second, the way he went about this was inappropriate, wrong, out of line, and unacceptable for a Senior Enlisted Marine.

And again –– what ships have you deployed onboard?

How is highlighting and drawing an apt description of the Navy's 'separate but equal' policies race baiting? Is it because they are damn near identical in nature to one another?

And I never deployed on a ship. All of my deployments have actually been somewhere on the ground within a shitty place where things are going on.

It's not an accurate description. Since you've never been on a ship, you're simply not qualified to talk about it.

I've done those deployments on the ground in shitty places where things are going on too. It's not the same.

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:48:57 PM EDT

[#34]

Well gentlemen, it's been entertaining, but I have a 0600 brief so I must retire.
I'll be thinking of you, at least a few of you anyway, over coffee tomorrow in the Wardroom.

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:49:53 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Well gentlemen, it's been entertaining, but I have a 0600 brief so I must retire.
I'll be thinking of you, at least a few of you anyway, over coffee tomorrow in the Wardroom.

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:52:08 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Let's not let this devolve into an entirely appropriate failings of the Air Force thread...there's simply too many to adequately address in this forum.

Good point...

You squids are so jealous... it's kinda cute

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:53:06 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
You know at the Generals Mess at 8th and Eye they are having a discussion of how to deal with a SgtMaj who doesn't know how to keep his mouth shut...

Free from others who may misunderstand that a General is not out of line in calling a SgtMaj a "whiny little fuck."

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:53:36 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Let's not let this devolve into an entirely appropriate failings of the Air Force thread...there's simply too many to adequately address in this forum.

Good point...

You squids are so jealous... it's kinda cute

Mind your manners

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:55:15 PM EDT

[#39]

I can't think of a single time I wanted to eat with officers anyway.

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:55:39 PM EDT

[#40]

I object.

Enlisted personnel should NOT be forced to watch officers eat.

that is all.

Posted: 4/21/2010 10:56:54 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Let's not let this devolve into an entirely appropriate failings of the Air Force thread...there's simply too many to adequately address in this forum.

Good point...

You squids are so jealous... it's kinda cute

Posted: 4/21/2010 11:14:14 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Oh, come on! The 'tradition' carried on today was because of class structure from the formation of the armed services. What the fuck! How does any of that escape you?

As I mentioned before, their boat, their rules. It wouldn't work in my corner of the Army, but different strokes for different folks.

Posted: 4/21/2010 11:53:59 PM EDT

[#43]

My job allows me to eat in the Wardroom when on duty, I prefer however to use the Chiefs Mess…

Posted: 4/21/2010 11:55:27 PM EDT

[#44]

Posted: 4/21/2010 11:55:59 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't see why not. In Iraq everyone ate in the same dining halls. Heck, I once sat across from a one-star general. Why are boats different?

Because it's not Iraq. It's a ship. If you haven't been there, you don't understand the culture –– it's tradition and culture, and nobody who doesn't understand it is going to change it. How, in fact, as a senior enlisted Marine, he had never heard of this, I cannot fathom.

OK, tradition and culture is fine, but is there an actual logical reason for it?

Yes, and it's for the same reason that the Captain traditionally sits and dines separately from the other Officers unless they invite him to their table.

Posted: 4/22/2010 12:06:23 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Correct. There is a difference.

Yeah, God forbid some former ROTC cadet has to eat with the enlisted swine on a ship.

Having separate dining accommodations based on rank? I thought we moved beyond the notion of "separate but equal'...Guess not.

I hope this SGM stirs up enough shit to end such a stupid policy.

Thank God my time spent in the military was not in an environment where such a thing would have ever occurred.

No he won't…

And if you had a clue and had actually put in any sea time, you would know that aboard ship, the Chiefs usually have more clout than most of the junior Officers and the senior Chiefs definately do…

'I hear what you say Sir, but has this been cleared with the Chief'… or … 'I don't think the Chief will like this Sir'…has put many a junior Lt in his place.

Posted: 4/22/2010 12:40:44 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't see why not. In Iraq everyone ate in the same dining halls. Heck, I once sat across from a one-star general. Why are boats different?

They are Ships not boats
And I would love to see the enlisted food improve enough to have the O's eat with them (Ex Enlisted of course)

As a side note
I had a friend on the ship doing Mess duty
he ask me if I liked all the shrimp he peeled
I said What Shrimp?

It had all gone to the O's

That's why Ships are still segregated

The food is basically all the same now, for the last several years. Quality of food has nothing to do with it. The CSC runs all of them –– he's not going to give the O's better food than his enlisted guys get anyway...

On all the big decks, Iwo, Nassau, Wasp, Kersarge, I have been on the ward room had the same food as the mess decks, the chief's' mess though did not.

Posted: 4/22/2010 12:46:22 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
Also, don't the Chiefs chip in money for their mess? I know the officers do, or at least did.

Officers pay for all their meals while afloat.

It is actually sort of a racket on amphibs; the navy normally has normal meals as long as the Marines are embarked and when we conduct exercises ashore, they break out the steak and lobster, etc.

Posted: 4/22/2010 12:55:38 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't see why not. In Iraq everyone ate in the same dining halls. Heck, I once sat across from a one-star general. Why are boats different?

They are Ships not boats
And I would love to see the enlisted food improve enough to have the O's eat with them (Ex Enlisted of course)

As a side note
I had a friend on the ship doing Mess duty
he ask me if I liked all the shrimp he peeled
I said What Shrimp?

It had all gone to the O's

That's why Ships are still segregated

The food is basically all the same now, for the last several years. Quality of food has nothing to do with it. The CSC runs all of them –– he's not going to give the O's better food than his enlisted guys get anyway...

On all the big decks, Iwo, Nassau, Wasp, Kersarge, I have been on the ward room had the same food as the mess decks, the chief's' mess though did not.

They do now –– or so I'm told.

Posted: 4/22/2010 1:07:14 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Didn't we used to have segregated units on the basis of race? Why not go back to that? After all, so many of you people argue not to 'mess with tradition.'

That's just straight up trolling.

No, it's the exact same. People are being separated on basis of class.

yep because some people are born asian just like some people are born Chief Petty officers, great analogy

Seriously put down the crack pipe, and back to a topic you seemingly know more about, go back to researching prison rape.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Marine blasts Navy dining traditions: Time to end centuries-old officer-enlisted separation on ships (Page 4 of 9)

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