They simply don't give a damn. If you can't afford / haven't paid into their ultra-capitalist world-view... where even the POLICE Are hired corporate goons, then you deserve to die. I have heard libertarians even argue in favor of indentured servitude!




 

I've talked to a few,... they concentrate as a whole WAY more on Pot Legalization, than keeping guns legal.





 

I'm a libertarian.  I've never smoked the devil weed.

I do think it isn't the .gov's business if some one grows, or uses it.

Am I doing it wrong?

An indentured servant was a worker, typically a laborer or tradesman, under contract  to an employer for a fixed period of time, typically three to seven years, in exchange for their transportation, food, clothing, lodging and other necessities.(paid)               so work in exchange for a form of payment.


Unlike slaves, an indentured servant was required to work only for a limited term specified in a signed contract.[1][2]  Legal arrangements of this type have been extremely widespread throughout world history in different forms, and have had a number of specific names, and may overlap with the status of apprentice, debt slave, unfree labour, and other terms. Usually the status of indentured servant was entered into voluntarily by the servant.


seems to me that you could work out such a contract as long as the person is given some rights within that contract.. the key is that a person can voluntarily agree to the contract or not.  lets say this... a poor person in Russia wants to come to the US, but can not pay his way, he could bind himself into a contract where he is provided food, clothing, a place to live, and he learns a trade and is self suffeicent when his contract is over.

sounds like an excellent opertunity to spit them up,,,,

Here is the Libertarian party's official platform: PLATFORM

No where in there do I see give up your guns for pot.

Because volunteer fire departments don't exist? That all homes fall under the AO of a subsidized FD?

A libertarian would not want to abolish FDs. Quite the contrary, libertarians don't intend to ban anything.

The difference is that libertarians want capitalism(private FDs) and altruism(volunteer FDs) to solve more of society's problems instead of solutions forced upon individuals by the collective. Libertarians do not oppose municipal FDs though. They would just prefer that alternatives to public service be considered.

With the complete lack of understanding of libertarian values along with the belief that many here hold that government can be the only facilitator in all situations it is no wonder that many here are against libertarianism.

Libertarianism is NOT anarchy. Many here have the two confused.

Let me tally some things I've heard Libertarians argue.





1. Indentured Servitude should be legal.


2. RAPE should be legal (Because it doesn't really exist, you see)


3. Child abuse should be legal

 











 

Private fire companies, available by subscription.  Probably rolled into your homeowner's insurance.  MUCH higher rates for "will-call" users.  Remember you're liable for damages to your neighbor's property from your burning out-of-control house, so simply letting it burn out may not be an attractive option.

One beneficial effect: this would put an end to cutting fire dept. budgets to fund midnight basketball... unless you found individuals who valued basketball over not having their houses burn down.

This would also be beneficial for those of us who live in essentially unburnable, concrete and steel houses.  We will no longer have to subsidize those who live in wood framed houses with wood shingle kindling roofs.

Natural enemies of this plan:

1. Politicians who like to control every aspect of the community they can
2. People who live in kindling houses and enjoy an out-sized benefit from taxpayer funded fire protection
3.  Unions of government employed firefighters who would rather not work in the free market, but rely on government force to take money from taxpayers, regardless of the value (or not) of their programs
4.  People who believe everyone in the world wants, or at least needs to be taken care of by Big Government

how it would really work out:

Just like health insurance, anyone with two brain cells to rub together would buy fire dept. services.  I suspect the cost would be more-or-less what you're paying for the fire department presently through your taxes (weigh the anticipated profits of the fire company versus the natural waste and inefficiency of anything run by the Government–– I believe the Libertarian assumption is that private will be better and cheaper)

The poor wouldn't buy it, simply because they don't have too much money, and really now, that second X-Box 360 is more important anyhow... poor neighborhoods would be ravaged with frequent fires, the little deadbeats would be almost impossible to collect any damages from.  If a fire company did respond, their bill would be ignored.  Since lazy people are often poor as a natural consequence of their being lazy, there is a good chance that your lazy neighbors would view your burning home like a grandiose version of bug-zapper entertainment, and watch as it is consumed.  The hard-working poor will quickly become un-poor, and move to decent neighborhoods where all the decent people buy fire department insurance.

You don't want to be poor in Libertarianville, that's for sure.  Unless you had a really convincing disability and could garner some charity, you'd be in for a tough ride.

I've talked to other libertarians about how I've heard these crazy ass things... and even they admitted "yeah our ranks are filled with nutjobs"

there are nutjobs within any association, its just libertarians want to take away power from government thus we are bad and marginalized.

its why saying libertarians are whacky is just a whitewash..  its like dem's saying republicans are whacky cause some religious people want to murder gays.  your doing the same thing DU does.

off-topic: So, how do you feel about Senator Olympia Snowe (R - ME)?

Seven through eleven. Kick ass!!!!! Where do I sign up. I just dont see a downside.

Tell me more....



 

Hmm I can go on.



12. 9/11 was an inside job

Horse shit. I'm a libertarian and I know lots of em.  Most of us have never even TRIED pot.  Fuck anyone that tries to sweep the entirety of the libertarian philosophy into that old red herring.  Sure we're against the drug war and all other forms of tyranny.  We're also for freedom.  Live and let live, etc.  Your post is dishonest.  You should be ashamed.  

The pothead pussies that will roll over for anything as long as they get their drug fix are called "LIBERALS".  Liberal does not equal Libertarian.  It did back in Jefferson's day, but the folks wearing that label today have wiped their asses with it so much it doesn't mean the same thing any more.

I once heard a Republican say he thinks sex with pigs is the best 'cause why not fuck what you can eat? That's efficiency, son. Pure, undiluted, evil, the lot of them!



ETA: I even heard a gun owner say he hates puppies. Now, what kind of person would hate puppies, I ask you? Them evil gun owners, that's who.

There are loons who call themselves "libertarians" but the same could be said for "conservatives". I don't believe you need me to repeat statements I've heard from self-declared "conservatives as I'm sure you've heard them before.

I would consider many on your list to run afoul of the libertarian values of not harming or violating the rights of others. I'm not a "capital-L" libertarian so take it as you will.

Do you just assume everyone you disagree with is a Libertarian?

I used to be one of these Extremist-Libertarians... until I pulled my head out of my ass and realized I was insane. Now I'm just your run of the mill right-of-center conservative... who doesn't play around with romantic delusions of some epic battle against the Illuminati and some Federal Government that is painted as the EXACT same thing as Nazi Germany.

 

They referred to themselves as such... OPENLY. There are websites and blogs by people who claim the title of "libertarian"... and spew all this crap.

 

then stop trying to put down libertarians just becuase at one point you were a nutcase.

I'm mostly talking about the Anarcho-Capitalist "libertarian" camp... which MANY libertarians tend to lean towards. Even AYN RAND Was a friggin nutjob. She hated the very idea of even private charity

^ this

Hard core libertarians don't think fire departments should be disbanded, they just think they should be a privately run company, like everything else.


This is a dicier proposition than normal, though.  Fires MUST be put out or they will endanger other people's property.  So even if you don't want the fire department to put out your house, tough shit.  They have to do it because not doing it will endanger other lives and property.  The fire department is one of the few services that a government must run (or at least pay for –– they don't necessarily have to run it).

how about this.. which is better.. socialism or Anarcho-Capitalisism? If given the choice of two extremes, i know which i would pick.(though not preffered)  Ayn Rand can believe whatever she wants, she advocates choice, she hated charity beucase it encouraged lazyiness and lack of responsibility.

Even if most libertarians would disagree with those statements I listed,... I bet they believe in them in SOME variation. Once I asked, if we lived in an anarcho-capitalist world... how would we protect children from abuse? The anarcho-capitalist responded "Well the parents certainly wouldn't want their kids to be abused, so they'd put a stop to it" ... Obviously he was begging the question. "What if it's the parents abusing the child?"

 

well done


i really dont understand why people do not understand such concepts, are they incapable or just refuse to use reason?

And thats another thing libertarians do.... engage if false dilemas. It's never "Well you either have total anarcho-capitalism! OR TOTAL TOTALITARIANISM!"
,... I didn't know that EVERY Country in the world is either Somalia or the Soviet Union.

If you REALLY want to see anarcho-capitalism in play.... goto somalia.

I dont, governmnet is and should exist to enforce contracts and protect our life and liberty and property.. thats pretty much It.

so if I own a huge ranch... I lay a bunch of land mines. I guess what your all arguing is that accidentally wandering from public land to private land, should be punishable by DEATH!? Are you INSANE!?



See... here the libertarians have finally outed themselves. First claiming "We aren't all crazy" then come out saying how people should be allowed to lay landmines, own nuclear weapons, and sell weapons to terrorists.

One of the great dangers of political labels is associating yourself with every stupid thing some nutjob who claims the same label you do has ever said.

That applies to all labels, plenty of crazy/stupid people in any group you care to name.

Most folks figure that out pretty early in life.

Let them Opt out.

We do it in a portion of our fire district.  Once you hit a certain mile marker outside of town, you have the option to pay the tax for fire services.  Dispatch keeps the address of the houses that paid the tax.  If that house catches on fire, we respond.  If they did not pay the tax.  Well, they are on their own.  

We will usually respond to prevent forrest fire, or surrounding structures from burning.  But we bail as soon as the the department of forrestry shows up.  



fwiw, the amount these people save on tax, they probably pay ten times the amount in raised home insurance.  It is also a ways out of town.  Probably eight miles.  So by the time the first engine starts spraying water, the house is pretty far gone.


ETA, if there is a life safety issue.  The department will respond to try to save the life.  But some people have figured this out, and once its been confirmed that no life safety issue exists.  We will mitigate the risks to exposures.  
Kind of frustrating for the FF on the nozzle.

I've heard libertarians argue that it should be legal to shoot children who cross onto your property

Libertarians are like Vegans

it woudl take some thought to come up with a reasonable resolution to this. i am sure there is a way to reason a resolution

No one is disputing that... I'm saying that there is a MUCH higher percentage within libertarian ranks, of lunacy.





 

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I'm all for protecting your property, and having rights to do with your property... what you want. But to set up automatic "KILL" systems on your property that indiscriminately kill whoever wanders on it... is MURDER.

Heck, he's got more red herrings at his disposal now it seems:  apparently, we're now in favor of raping children while armed with nuclear weapons while deal them drugs and explain to them that 9/11 was an inside job.  Then when we're done, we tell them that there are no Islamic terrorists, then we kill the kid with a land mine.

I freely admit that I am a conservative with SOME libertarianish views,... I just don't dare want to even associate myself with the word "libertarian" because of the association it gives me to lunatics.

Someone doesn't have good reading comprehesion skills.

I REALLY like the fire department.  I think they are good guys doing good work.  With that said, I'd PREFER that we all paid for their services when they were needed instead of through taxes.

As for the police?  To date, I've never encountered a situation where I'd willingly pay for their services, that is unlikely to change.

You wandered into my thread and are attempting to kill it...

First I was talking mostly of the Anarcho-Capitalist type libertarians... but even some of the more "mainstream" libertarians, are quite loony themselves. I've had a libertarian tell me I should be hanged, because I think it should be illegal to sell drugs to children.

 

Both.

With what I added in red you are describing libertarianism, or capitalism.

Before you were describing anarchocapitalism.

The legitimate role of .gov is to keep people from fucking over other people for a fast buck.

There needs to be a few rules, but not very many, since; it's already against the law to rip people off.

dems say republicans are racist. do you like associating with racists?

Not sure how fire departments are socialism.

I don't think their funding should be buried in the city budget but rather both fire and police be handled as a flat lot levy.

Funding the fire department buys you lower insurance rates.  In that sense you're getting exactly what you pay for and if they actually end up rolling a truck to put out your house fire that's just gravy.  (And honestly they should charge a response fee, which I'd expect my insurance to cover.)

Really? Look into what her contemporaries said about her. She lost A LOT of her friends over the years over her self-absorbed ego... She was a proponent of self-worship. Towards the end of her life, she alienated everyone around her....