Hello,

I am shopping for BP/W set up for rec diving only using single AL80 tank, and possibly a 19 cu ft pony bottle.

Typically, I am using around 20 lbs of weight when using 7mm or 5mm wetsuit in fresh water. It seems most BP/W setups come with only 20-25 lb wings while most of the jacket bcds I've used have had around 40-50 lbs of lift.

Why is there such a difference in lift capacity for single tank rigs?

Any suggestions for how big of a wing to use? I would like an extra margin of safety as well,  20-25lbs of lift seems only adequate.

Thanks!

You don't need to lift the weight your carrying, just the negative balance. Start off getting you weighting straight. should only need 5-10 lbs lift with your weight dialed in. 50lbs of lift in a jacket bcd would make for a huge rig.

My single bladder is 25lbs I think. my doubles is 40 or 45

I'm diving a 40lb wing with a single AL80, a 30cft pony, and 24 lbs of weight in a 5mm. Change to my drysuit and I'm carrying 26-28 lbs of weight (I'm floaty as hell).

The wing is a bit much, but I won it (Halcyon) and it works. Probably a 30lb wing would be better.

Previously I had a 27 lb wing with my drysuit, a single AL80, no pony, and 30 lbs of weight (I've been able to reduce weight somewhat). It worked well.

I dive an Oxycheq 30# wing, stainless backplate, and a single stainless HP 100 tank.

I only have to add around 10# of weight (can include any combination of lead, light, etc) when diving in a 7mm wetsuit with hood, boots, and gloves.

Otherwise, no added or ditchable weights.  Love this setup.

Great thread.  I am in the wing market too.  I have a pair of Faber LP108s that I am going to mount to a BP and I'm wanting a dual bladder wing.  Wonder if 45 is enough or I need 60 like the Dive Rite Classic wing

Some points to consider:

-Lift is more critical at the beginning of the dive because of the weight of the gas in your tank. An AL80 will swing from approximately 3 pounds negative to approximately 3 pounds positive.

-Ballast is more critical at the end of the dive because your tanks tend to shift towards the positive as you breathe them down.

-3 pounds of lead per mil of wet suit is a rough starting point for figuring out ballast. A 3 mil wet suit will need approximately 9 pounds of lead, a 5 mil will require approximately 15 pounds, 21 pounds for 7 mil. These are rough starting points that will require you to adjust as necessary.

-A 7 mil wetsuit will compressed to approximately 3 mil in thickness at 100 feet.

-A brand new wet suit will be more buoyant for the 12-18 dives. After it gets crushed by the depth after a few times it will stabilize in terms of buoyancy and you should be able to dial in your final adjustments.

-A stainless BP/W set up will weigh in at approximately 8-10 pounds.

-BC's are made to be a one side fits all solution. BP/W's are meant to be a modular solution allowing you to go from single tanks to doubles and scale your wing up or down to suit your dive.

-An oversized wing will produce excess and unnecessary drag, trap air making you unstable, and generally be more difficult to attain proper trim and buoyancy.

I can Side mount 2 AL80's in saltwater wearing a 3 mil wet suit with 2 pounds of trim weights on the shoulders and a small wing that provides about 15 pounds of lift. That set up results in about a
10-12 pound swing in terms of gas. That whole rig, minus the trim weights weight in at about 4-5 pounds. I don't need a lot of air in the wing to maintain buoyancy and when those tanks are empty I can hold and maintain buoyancy in about 5 feet of water with zero air in the wing.

My wife dives a BP/W in a 5 mil wet suit in fresh water. Using an AL-80 she needs about 2-4 pounds of lead and that's mainly for when her tanks are empty. Wearing a 3 mil in saltwater she only needs the weight of the BP/W.

We're doing a live aboard in the Galapagos in Oct, of 2019. At present the live aboard will not let me side mount off it so I have to go back mount(yuck), which will be a BP/W. I'm planning on using a 25 pound wing with a dry suit for that trip.

Personally, I think you'll be fine in a 25-30 pound wing. It should provide you with plenty of lift yet is not so excessive that it gives you stability and trim issues. Additionally, I think you'll be a little more streamlined in the water and might see better air consumption as a result.

Hope it helps

Thanks for great advice. I appreciate it.

It depends what kind of diving you're doing.

For reference

I generally do beach and boat dives in 84° water with a 3mm shorty.
I use an 18# Oxycheq wing on a Scubapro 5.5# SS BP and a 1# single tank adapter.
That's generally all the weight I need.

I have two of the Oxycheq wings. Got both wings on eBay for over half the price. One was lightly used, the other one (the extreme) pretty much brand new.

Some other light lift wings I know of are the Apeks WTX-D18 wing and the Deep Sea Supply Torus 17

Not sure how big you are but it your over 6ft. Most back-plates feel wonky . Check out https://www.deepseasupply.com/ I have there long pattern stainless bp and I love it. Thier package deals are really good too I think I paid 480 for bp ,wing and harness. Give them a call or email tell them your specs what u plan on doing in the future and they will tell u what will work out the best.

Wonky how? I'm 6'1"... no wonk here.

Good advice. The owner, Tobin, will be happy to advise you based on your needs. He will help you pick the proper combination. He is an avid technical diver and the designer and manufacturer of the equipment.

Wonky is probably the wrong word to use. waist strap is lower a few inches so it's not angled down as bad as say my friends diverite plate. I'm bout 6'4"-6'5" also I really like the over molded rubber on the slots no extra tri glides to deal with make adjustments really easy.

It shouldn't be angled down at all. Lengthen your (or your friend's) crotch strap until the waist strap is straight.

Phrasing!

Yeah I'm afraid he might enjoy that to much.

Anyways I was taught the back plate should be just high enough so you can touch the top reaching back. To have his waist strap straight it would be above his bellybutton.  I wear my waist strap like I do my jeans tucked under my gutt.  Right or wrong what ever do what feels right and works for you. I'm sure the DIR folks will turn their noses up but  just cause you call your group doing it right doesn't make it the end all be all. If that's the case wanna join my big dick club

Hey man, if that's where your mind went first, I won't judge you

But seriously, I don't care about DIR - just relaying what I was taught by a non-GUE instructor. I dive sidemount now, backmount was too much work

I've added additional D rings to my Halcyon harness that the DIR folks would probably call heretical. So what? I do what works for me.

For warm water I dive a DSS BP with a 17lb travel wing. I also only wear skins (No wetsuit) so I am over-weighted with just the plate. I absolutely love my setup though.

My wife dives a DiveRite TravelPac but she only needs 6lbs for weight. She is hesitant to switch to an actual backplate since until you really wear one it does not look like it would be comfortable.

Read a great thread on this a day or 2 ago on scubaboard (no clue how old he thread was).

my humble understanding-the purpose of a bc is to maintain neutral buoyancy not make you float.  Pretty much everyone starts out with positive boyancy at surface level.  In a perfect world, you add weight so that you need to duck dive to 15' (which is the most rapid decrease in boyancy) and are neutral there w/o inflating the b/c.  As you descend, you loose boyancy due to suit compression.  The thicker the suit, the more it can compress, dry suites agrivate the proble because they can flood.  The BC is how you deal with this.  It needs to be able to compensate for the maximum loss of boyancy you will experiance.  

The thread turned into a bit of a fight.  Larger BC's allow divers to over weight (potentially dangerous).  A simple problem exists, it's easier to train with excess weight and boyancy.  Easier to control students kneeling on the bottom firmly or bobbing high in the surface.  Flip side, if you are balance properly, 18lbs is generally more than a big enough boyancy in warm water (and they fought a lot over this), marginally enough in cold.

my overall take on the thread.  I understand the arguements made that too much boyancy allows overweighting, but that is a training issue.  If you do not overweight (which is ultimatly your own decision) the only real cost are a marginal increase in drag vs needing a larger suitcase to carry it.  
---
the thread discussed the additional boyancy of a low tank as well.  I honestly do not recall if they were aiming for neutral at 15 at the begging or end of the dive.

I think I am going to go with the Dive Rite Rec XT wing.  Like the one piece cover and the dual bladders.  Should work fine with Faber / XS Scuba LP 108s with a stainless plate.


And I heard about it from John Chatterton's website.  If he likes it, its more than enough for me.

wings are overrated. (eta... for rec diving)
Been diving on a aqualung axiom for 2 years now.  Bestest, most comfortable gear I've ever tried...including bp/w's.
It is so refined, walking around the boat with an HP100 on is so comfortable, you can practically run laps.
With little to no air (if properly weighted) in the bladder and weight pockets near the tank strap, there should be zero buoyancy/trim issues.
Why deal with uncomfortable harness straps and all the do--it-yourself required modifications?
Jacket BCDs work as well or better than BP/Ws.  Plenty of attachment points and pockets and easy weight systems... all right out of the box.

Yours doesn't have that stupid i3 inflator, does it? My buddy has a Dimension with the i3.

nope


If OP really thinks back inflation is all that, try a BCD with back inflation.
Another downside is traveling with a BP/W and the weight of the back plate.