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Posted: 2/13/2014 5:34:52 PM EDT
Just got my water analysis back from Ward Labs and I wanted to see what you all think of the results.  Here they are.

pH 7.4
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm .........338
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm ................0.56
Cations / Anions, me/L.......... .....................6.2 / 6.2
ppm
Sodium, Na .........................28
Potassium, K...................... 4
Calcium, Ca .......................76
Magnesium, Mg .................12
Total Hardness, CaCO3       240
Nitrate, NO3-N ...................< 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S .................. 28
Chloride, Cl ........................11
Carbonate, CO3 .................< 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 .............251
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 .......205
Total Phosphorus, P........... 0.16
Total Iron, Fe ......................0.63"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit


This is untreated and unfiltered well water.
Link Posted: 2/14/2014 7:02:54 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Just got my water analysis back from Ward Labs and I wanted to see what you all think of the results.  Here they are.

pH 7.4
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm .........338
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm ................0.56
Cations / Anions, me/L.......... .....................6.2 / 6.2
ppm
Sodium, Na .........................28
Potassium, K...................... 4
Calcium, Ca .......................76
Magnesium, Mg .................12
Total Hardness, CaCO3       240
Nitrate, NO3-N ...................< 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S .................. 28
Chloride, Cl ........................11
Carbonate, CO3 .................< 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 .............251
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 .......205

Total Phosphorus, P........... 0.16
Total Iron, Fe ......................0.63"<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit


This is untreated and unfiltered well water.
View Quote


Well I wouldn't aim for a world class Czech Pils

Should be a good profile for stouts/porters with the high alkalinity & bicarbonate, maybe add some CaCl as well for those (look up chloride/sulfate ratios -- more cloride = maltier, more sulfate = hoppier in a general sense).

You don't really need more calcium, but I would think it wouldn't hurt to add gypsum for APA/IPA stuff.

You can cut the alkalinity down with acid for lighter beers to get your 5.2-5.4 pH, but the bicarbonate levels are through the roof, and while I know they aren't recommended for paler beers, I'm not 100% sure exactly how to treat them for it (besides using RO to dilute).  Maybe boiling or slaked lime?  Something for you to research anyway.

Not sure about the iron content and what the levels need to be--i know it could cause off flavors in certain concentrations.

Here is Dublin Ireland water profile-they are obviously known for their dry stout --similar to yours with the bicarbonate.

Calcium (ppm): 120
Sulfates (ppm): 54
Magnesium (ppm): 4
Sodium (ppm): 12
Chloride (ppm):19
Carbonates (ppm): 319
Link Posted: 2/14/2014 12:34:45 PM EDT
[#2]
If it makes you feel any better there are very few breweries in the world that actually treat their water In anyway. Guys like AB-I and Miller pay the municipal water plant to edge the profile to their specs but by and large the water in the ground is near perfect, that's why they choose to put breweries in the cities they do.

And because of that its interesting to note that  all the American craft brewers that make all the different styles they make do so with what ever water they have.  Water profile is kinda blown out if proportion by homebrewers.

I take it back, I know of one place that has all RO well water, but they're in a area of heavy mining, and their water has cadmium and some other nasty stuff in it.
Link Posted: 2/14/2014 1:35:43 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If it makes you feel any better there are very few breweries in the world that actually treat their water In anyway. Guys like AB-I and Miller pay the municipal water plant to edge the profile to their specs but by and large the water in the ground is near perfect, that's why they choose to put breweries in the cities they do.

And because of that its interesting to note that  all the American craft brewers that make all the different styles they make do so with what ever water they have.  Water profile is kinda blown out if proportion by homebrewers.

I take it back, I know of one place that has all RO well water, but they're in a area of heavy mining, and their water has cadmium and some other nasty stuff in it.
View Quote


For the most part I agree, but my pH is a little high for lighter beers.
Link Posted: 2/15/2014 1:43:45 AM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


For the most part I agree, but my pH is a little high for lighter beers.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
If it makes you feel any better there are very few breweries in the world that actually treat their water In anyway. Guys like AB-I and Miller pay the municipal water plant to edge the profile to their specs but by and large the water in the ground is near perfect, that's why they choose to put breweries in the cities they do.

And because of that its interesting to note that  all the American craft brewers that make all the different styles they make do so with what ever water they have.  Water profile is kinda blown out if proportion by homebrewers.

I take it back, I know of one place that has all RO well water, but they're in a area of heavy mining, and their water has cadmium and some other nasty stuff in it.


For the most part I agree, but my pH is a little high for lighter beers.


That's what lactic acid is for. Or phosphoric. (Too much P tastes kinda funky but If not too bad it's a good yeast nutrient. Lactic is good as it tastes good)

Just don't buy any acidulated malt. That shit is soooo tasty and you'll end up eating it all like I do.
Link Posted: 2/15/2014 10:14:21 AM EDT
[#5]
And I know your trying to get a brewery started up so this applies to you. Being on well water helps a lot.

So for each of your core brands just start doing ph tests at mash and then use acid to drop the ph. Record the amount of acid used. With enough data you should be able to plot a graph for acid needed for the ph you need with that given initial ph for that grain bill.

If your finding that it's damn near identical amounts you could just start throwing in what ever amount you need in every mash. You could also go with an inline dosing system. A 55gal drum is around $500(what we buy so the price I know, not saying you could use that much.) and the smaller amounts drop accordingly In price.  The inline dose systems use Venturi pumps and work pretty well. Use it for mash water and sparge. Heck the small brewhouse has it dose into all the water coming in. Even the hose station.

Link Posted: 2/15/2014 11:33:08 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
And I know your trying to get a brewery started up so this applies to you. Being on well water helps a lot.

So for each of your core brands just start doing ph tests at mash and then use acid to drop the ph. Record the amount of acid used. With enough data you should be able to plot a graph for acid needed for the ph you need with that given initial ph for that grain bill.

If your finding that it's damn near identical amounts you could just start throwing in what ever amount you need in every mash. You could also go with an inline dosing system. A 55gal drum is around $500(what we buy so the price I know, not saying you could use that much.) and the smaller amounts drop accordingly In price.  The inline dose systems use Venturi pumps and work pretty well. Use it for mash water and sparge. Heck the small brewhouse has it dose into all the water coming in. Even the hose station.

View Quote


Brewsmith is calling for like 220 grams of chalk.  You think just bumping the lactic acid is a better solution?
Link Posted: 2/15/2014 11:36:20 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
And I know your trying to get a brewery started up so this applies to you. Being on well water helps a lot.

So for each of your core brands just start doing ph tests at mash and then use acid to drop the ph. Record the amount of acid used. With enough data you should be able to plot a graph for acid needed for the ph you need with that given initial ph for that grain bill.

If your finding that it's damn near identical amounts you could just start throwing in what ever amount you need in every mash. You could also go with an inline dosing system. A 55gal drum is around $500(what we buy so the price I know, not saying you could use that much.) and the smaller amounts drop accordingly In price.  The inline dose systems use Venturi pumps and work pretty well. Use it for mash water and sparge. Heck the small brewhouse has it dose into all the water coming in. Even the hose station.

View Quote


What do you use for alkalinity?
Link Posted: 2/16/2014 2:58:00 PM EDT
[#8]
We use caso4 but in small amounts in comparison to y'all. 1000g for 150bbls beer. So it's more a component of flavor then for ph adjusting.

You could use minerals to adjust hardness/ph but acid will get you their easier with less off flavors.  You'll get less tannin extraction.

For alkalinity? Lactic.

Again water quality isn't a thing for us. We need 5.45 ph for beer a, and 4.7l of lactic gets us there. I could use minerals n salts but 5.45 ph is 5.45 ph. Sure salts are more "traditional" as your more mimicking old ways of brewing. If that's your thing then good for you. I use the tools available and the rest of the industry does too. You love their beer right?
Link Posted: 2/16/2014 9:38:19 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
We use caso4 but in small amounts in comparison to y'all. 1000g for 150bbls beer. So it's more a component of flavor then for ph adjusting.

You could use minerals to adjust hardness/ph but acid will get you their easier with less off flavors.  You'll get less tannin extraction.

For alkalinity? Lactic.

Again water quality isn't a thing for us. We need 5.45 ph for beer a, and 4.7l of lactic gets us there. I could use minerals n salts but 5.45 ph is 5.45 ph. Sure salts are more "traditional" as your more mimicking old ways of brewing. If that's your thing then good for you. I use the tools available and the rest of the industry does too. You love their beer right?
View Quote


I think you misunderstood, what would you use to add alkalinity to your water, in the case of a stout or something like that.  Some water doesn't have much and needs pH to go up.

Link Posted: 2/17/2014 9:21:06 AM EDT
[#10]
Id use calcium carbonate.
Link Posted: 8/5/2014 5:40:27 PM EDT
[#11]
What effect will citric acid have on beer?
Link Posted: 8/7/2014 7:29:39 AM EDT
[#12]
Citric acid is fine, in some ways easier to deal with as it's a powder. Citric as far as I remember is just more expensive then lactic and hence why lactic is used more often.

As a winery you probably got boat loads of the stuff on hand, go with that.
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