Moonshine question

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Posted: 2/5/2014 12:31:49 PM EDT

First, this isn't about illegal distilling and I don't want it to turn into that kind of thread.

I've seen a few minutes of that moonshiners program in passing. The few times I saw it, it looked like they all were using tons of sugar, yeast & some whole corn. Are they just using corn the sake of perpetuating TV b/s? The corn doesn't actually do anything as it has no diastatic power and there are no enzymes present to convert the starches correct?

Posted: 2/5/2014 12:53:19 PM EDT

[#1]

Whole corn ? I'm not sure I want to know what hole it came out of. Besides Apple Pie Moonshine is the only homemade shine that is palatable...in my opinion.

LD

Posted: 2/5/2014 12:57:01 PM EDT

[#2]

All good shine used to be made with corn. Found out sugar was cheaper so more profit.

Posted: 2/5/2014 5:16:13 PM EDT

[#3]

they 'mash' or steep the corn at certain temperatures to convert the starches into fermentable simple sugars. certain temps allow certain enzymes to do this process. they are actually making beer and distilling the alcohol from the beer. there's a lot of information on the subject here:

http://homedistiller.org/theory/theory

bear in mind, distilling alcohol for consumption is illegal here

Posted: 2/5/2014 6:34:23 PM EDT

[#4]

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they 'mash' or steep the corn at certain temperatures to convert the starches into fermentable simple sugars. certain temps allow certain enzymes to do this process. they are actually making beer and distilling the alcohol from the beer. there's a lot of information on the subject here:http://homedistiller.org/theory/theory

bear in mind, distilling alcohol for consumption is illegal here

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Heads, hearts and tails.

Posted: 2/5/2014 8:05:11 PM EDT

[#5]

What got me to wondering is that brewing grains are malted to convert the starch in the grain to fermentable sugars for the yeast to work on. When you add adjuncts like corn and other unmalted grains, if I understand it in basic terms, you need to have enough enzymes or diastatic power??? from your malted grains to perform the conversion on the adjuncts/starches to hit your calculated SG. Otherwise you end up having to add amylase to get conversion.

From a historical perspective, I believe sugar used to be an expensive commodity in relation to grain so back in the day. I would think that they made moonshine from a grain mash/malt as buying 100 pound sacks of sugar would have been cost prohibitive for po' folks. Seems like all these TV yahoos are doing these days are making alcohol fuel because they aren't really mashing the corn for the purpose of extracting sugars from it, at least not from what I've seen.

Posted: 2/5/2014 9:14:53 PM EDT

[#6]

i think the old timers worked with whatever was cheap. hell, you can make vodka from potatoes or alcohol from many carbohydrate sources.

this has some explanation of the process:

http://homebrew.stackexchange.com/questions/7912/corn-beer-steps-and-suggestions-using-a-home-stove

look for the 'whisky' recipe:

http://www.coppermoonshinestills.com/id28.html

here's some more explanations:

http://homedistiller.org/grain/wash-grain2/moonshine

Posted: 2/6/2014 2:37:47 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
First, this isn't about illegal distilling and I don't want it to turn into that kind of thread.

I've seen a few minutes of that moonshiners program in passing. The few times I saw it, it looked like they all were using tons of sugar, yeast & some whole corn. Are they just using corn the sake of perpetuating TV b/s? The corn doesn't actually do anything as it has no diastatic power and there are no enzymes present to convert the starches correct?

View Quote

You can buy just "amylase enzyme" and throw that in too, they may not be showing it. (like a powder)

Posted: 2/6/2014 5:49:53 AM EDT

[#8]

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i think the old timers worked with whatever was cheap. hell, you can make vodka from potatoes or alcohol from many carbohydrate sources.

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I totally forgot about Vodka. we're getting into the more technical aspect of it now. I was just wondering more or less if the corn they added to their sugar 'mash' on these TV gigs was really doing anything. Seemed like they didn't ferment long and the wash that they poured in the still was like water & nearly clear. I suspect they are being vague as well to keep the average Joe for killing themselves. I seem to recall an interview with LE about these shows that said if they were doing anything illegal, that they'd been in jail long ago. So I suspect it's all just TV b/s anyway.

Posted: 2/6/2014 6:57:14 AM EDT

[#9]

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Quoted:

i think the old timers worked with whatever was cheap. hell, you can make vodka from potatoes or alcohol from many carbohydrate sources.

I totally forgot about Vodka. we're getting into the more technical aspect of it now. I was just wondering more or less if the corn they added to their sugar 'mash' on these TV gigs was really doing anything. Seemed like they didn't ferment long and the wash that they poured in the still was like water & nearly clear. I suspect they are being vague as well to keep the average Joe for killing themselves. I seem to recall an interview with LE about these shows that said if they were doing anything illegal, that they'd been in jail long ago. So I suspect it's all just TV b/s anyway.

ya think?

actually, the fermenting process for moonshine is pretty quick, or so i've read. hiding something for three days is easier than hiding something for 3 weeks. some of those stills are a modern marvel and some are relatively unchanged from the old days. making alcohol is easy; making good whisky is an art.

Posted: 2/6/2014 1:40:53 PM EDT

[#10]

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Quoted:

they 'mash' or steep the corn at certain temperatures to convert the starches into fermentable simple sugars. certain temps allow certain enzymes to do this process. they are actually making beer and distilling the alcohol from the beer. there's a lot of information on the subject here:

http://homedistiller.org/theory/theory

View Quote

bear in mind, distilling alcohol for consumption is illegal here

corn wont convert, unless you add another malt, or a enzyme.

and you need to gelatonize the starch 1st, then covert it- its a pita

Posted: 2/6/2014 3:15:12 PM EDT

[#11]

actually, it will convert under fairly precise conditions:

Once cracked corn (or corn meal) has been cooked (gelatinized) this "gelatinous mess" is ready for conversion.

As previously stated, conversion takes place in the presence of enzymes. Starches cannot be broken down to sugar without enzymes. If you choose to use grain as malt (little enzyme factories) rather than "store bought stuff" then you must prepare the grain and turn each kernel into an "enzyme factory".

Malt is best produced using Barley because it contains many different enzymes that will convert starch to sugar but for the sake of answering the question I will stick with corn. By soaking or wetting shelled corn for several days, each kernel will begin to swell. Soaking or wetting fools each kernel into believing that it's growing season.

Under the right conditions (water, warmth, and light) the miracle of life begins. Miraculously, Mother Nature devised a marvelous but complicated means for the tiny embryo to burst forth into life. Remember, I stated earlier that the tiny corn embryo needs simple sugars to develop and grow but all the sugar that's contained in the kernel is bound up as starch. The embryo cannot survive without food (simple sugar) and will surely die.

So, in the presence of all the right conditions, the little embryo begins to manufacture enzymes that leak into the starch sac and break down the starch to sugar so it will have the energy to grow and poke it head through the soil. Once the embryo grows into a young plant and makes it to the surface, all the starch in the kernel will have been converted and consumed and sunlight and nutrients in the soil and water will provide for the plant's remaining days on earth. The umbilical chord is severed when the plant makes it to the surface.

Now, what we want to do is capture the manufacture of enzymes in the kernel just at the right time thus capitalizing on the maximum enzyme level. If you wait too long, the embryo will have used all enzymes and starches to break free of its shell.

When little "roots" develop at the end of each kernel of corn (approximately 1/4" long) enzyme levels are said to have reached the maximum level. It is at this time you wash the "sprouting corn", remove the little roots and "hair", grind the corn and toss it into your pot that contains gelatinized starch (cooked cracked corn or corn meal).

When the ground malt is added to your cooked corn, you will need to elevate the temperature of your mix to between 140F and 150F degrees. Conversely, if the malt is ready and you have just finished cooking the corn, then lower the temperature of the cooked corn to 140F to 150F degrees before adding the malt. Remember, enzymes are a protein and can be easily destroyed by heat.

After holding the mixture's temperature between 140F and 150F for 40 to 60 minutes, conversion from starch to sugar should be complete.

Conversion can be verified by removing a small amount of "converted mix" and placing it on a saucer and adding a drop of iodine. If starch is still present the sample will turn blue and the mix will require a little more heating time. If conversion is complete there will be no blue color.

Assuming conversion is complete, lower the temperature of the mix to around 80F degrees and toss in the yeast.

<strong style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Fermenting sprouted corn[/span]

Sprouted corn will ferment if you stop germination at the appropriate time. Remember, you want to keep the embryo from eating all the sugar that has been converted. If you allow the sprouts to get longer than the kernel of corn or greater that 1/4", then you are losing sugar which is what the yeast needs in order to make ETOH.

When your sack(s) of corn has/have begun to sprout, wash the corn, remove roots & hair, and grind into a mush. Heat the mush for 40 to 60 minutes between 140F and 150F, cool to 80F to 85F degrees and then add yeast and allow to ferment.

<em style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">NOTE[/span]: The reason you heat the malt and corn mix to between 140F and 150F degrees is to speed up the chemical conversion from starch to sugar in the presence of a catalyst. In theory, if you did not use heat, the reaction would still go to completion ...... but it would take much longer.

What I am about to say is purely academic and for your personal edification. With regard to organic catalyst or inorganic catalyst, I've already stated that a catalyst is used to accelerate a chemical reaction and the catalyst is not consumed during a chemical reaction. This means that as soon as the catalyst has been used to accelerate and complete a chemical reaction, it is released to be used again and again and again. So sometimes not much catalyst is necessary.

It should be interesting to point out that there is an unspoken truism in the above paragraph. Since a catalyst is used to accelerate a chemical reaction, then it's reasonable to assume that in the absence of a catalyst the chemical reaction will still go to completion but at a far slower rate. And this is true. Some complex chemical reactions may occur in the "blink of an eye" when accelerated by a catalyst but in the absence of the catalyst, the reaction may take years or even hundreds of years to go to completion.

Posted: 2/6/2014 3:40:20 PM EDT

[#12]

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Quoted:

I totally forgot about Vodka. we're getting into the more technical aspect of it now. I was just wondering more or less if the corn they added to their sugar 'mash' on these TV gigs was really doing anything. Seemed like they didn't ferment long and the wash that they poured in the still was like water & nearly clear. I suspect they are being vague as well to keep the average Joe for killing themselves. I seem to recall an interview with LE about these shows that said if they were doing anything illegal, that they'd been in jail long ago. So I suspect it's all just TV b/s anyway.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
i think the old timers worked with whatever was cheap. hell, you can make vodka from potatoes or alcohol from many carbohydrate sources.

I totally forgot about Vodka. we're getting into the more technical aspect of it now. I was just wondering more or less if the corn they added to their sugar 'mash' on these TV gigs was really doing anything. Seemed like they didn't ferment long and the wash that they poured in the still was like water & nearly clear. I suspect they are being vague as well to keep the average Joe for killing themselves. I seem to recall an interview with LE about these shows that said if they were doing anything illegal, that they'd been in jail long ago. So I suspect it's all just TV b/s anyway.

It's the flavor it gives it.

The older the generation the mash, the more flavor the alcohol takes on after distilling it from the mash.

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